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No Man's Sky's Sean Murray explains why it's best for Anthem and Fallout 76's developers to stay silent after launch
- Thread starter RevengeTaken
- Start date
Can't say I agree as I don't see the situations being that similar. The reason it was a good thing for No Mans Sky was because Sean just couldn't keep his mouth shut before launch and got himself into very deep hot water over all his great ideas which weren't actually going to make it into the final product. In that case then yes, it's better to keep quiet instead of promising the world and not delivering with every update(but it would have been even better if they'd have just hired a proper PR person to speak, lol). It also wasn't really a GAAS game, so there was less expectations for a constant stream of updates.
The issue with these big GAAS games that are launched as less than great products is there's always the fear that the publisher is just going to abandon them. That's why people want to see some talk, because it reassures people that it's not just another failed project.
The issue with these big GAAS games that are launched as less than great products is there's always the fear that the publisher is just going to abandon them. That's why people want to see some talk, because it reassures people that it's not just another failed project.
I don't know how much that really matters though. It's easy to see criticism online and think it's a big deal, but Spiderman did great, and how many people really cared about puddles?
I don't think he's wrong. There's nothing they can say that will appease anyone. If they release a statement, or a road map people will shit on it for not being ready yet.
Of course, there is the caveat here of assuming they're still working towards something. The silence worked for Hello because they turned it around through updates. I'm less optimistic about Anthem.
Of course, there is the caveat here of assuming they're still working towards something. The silence worked for Hello because they turned it around through updates. I'm less optimistic about Anthem.
You promise her a 5-star meal but your house floods, so all you can afford is McDonald's. She responds to this by trying to destroy your reputation on social media and threatening to kill you.
Most early access games don't get an e3 stage presence so nah I'm pretty sure everyone would still be harassing him because beside the multiplayer he also changed the color of the trees which easy to forget now but was also something everyone wanted him dead for
Also everyone still reminds you 5 years later that you lied to your wife that one time years ago
Not to pile on, but he's talking out of his ass again. HG could afford to stay silent because they're a tiny team and their game didn't depend on having a live community. They had plenty of money to coast for a while, because the game sold extremely well. What worked for HG was putting out good, free content. But for a live game, silence + no updates = death, if the community is already leaving it in droves.
Yes, a house flooding is a perfect metaphor for getting a ton of money from Sony to market your game. Perfect analogy. Yeah the gamer response sucked but what happened to NMS was a completely unforced error.
Yes, a house flooding is a perfect metaphor for getting a ton of money from Sony to market your game. Perfect analogy. Yeah the gamer response sucked but what happened to NMS was a completely unforced error.
Oh fuck off, Murray. You only got away with it because NMS was never advertised as a "live service" and redemption came so long after launch everyone had already written you and Hello Games off as snake oil salesmen.
Yes, you gave back to the people who you lied to in the first place, but you don't get to be smug about it.
Yes, you gave back to the people who you lied to in the first place, but you don't get to be smug about it.
Lets not pretend they listen if its backed up either as evidence by this and every other Sean Murray thread
Speaking of Lies yes it was. From day 1 he said they wanted to model themselves after Minecraft
That's literally what the game was advertised as from the start. They told us that on the day it was initially revealed. That's why it got so much backlash before it ever even came out.
You know what, if that's the sort of thing he says when he isn't silent, I agree with his position.
I also agree with you. Waaaay different situations. Dude, just don't lie next time. And then dodge questions when asked to clarify.
These AAA games can't really afford silence. Bioware's silence for Anthem is essentially killing the game off
They told us that it wouldn't have human NPCs?
Edit: just read a kotaku piece from just before the beta that mentions this. For some reason I swore that wasn't known until after the beta was out.
one of his points is true though, he spend time writing blog posts with roadmaps etc but decided not to post them because if they miss deadlines it just makes the situation even worse,
hell look at anthem and its road map before it released lol
hell look at anthem and its road map before it released lol
did sean ever explain the reasoning behind his NMS launch-day tweets on how people already saw each other in the game via multiplayer on Day 1? As insanely hyped as i was for this game I was still somewhat satisfied with my $60 purchase, if left underwhelmed. But that tweet came across as nothing but a blatant lie and got me salty.
Still hold the game near and dear to my heart though. Love all the updates and extra care it's gotten since launch.
Still hold the game near and dear to my heart though. Love all the updates and extra care it's gotten since launch.
Sean Murray is right about not making promises you can't keep.
Now if only the games industry could do this *before* games come out.
Now if only the games industry could do this *before* games come out.
2 players saw each others discoveries within like 12 hours of launch. This is what he was tweeting about, as evidence by the fact at the time he was replying to one of those 2 people
To give Bioware credit, they've basically been incommunicado since Anthem's launch. Even their SOTG streams were complete debacles that yielded nothing of value.
But I'm not suggesting that silence is always a good thing. In Anthem's case, the game is fucking dead with little chance of recovery as each day passes in silence.
But I'm not suggesting that silence is always a good thing. In Anthem's case, the game is fucking dead with little chance of recovery as each day passes in silence.
100% right, and a lot of the people suggesting otherwise are probably part of the reason why. After a bad launch and a loss of faith, the disinterested want developers to fail for amusement and the interested want them to fail as a consolation prize, but they both want to use it as an excuse to preach and vent. The biggest mistake they can make is thinking that their critics want the game to improve more than they want to complain about its lack of improvement. We've all seen that on this forum in particular.
Sounding confident comes off as tone deaf, sounding unsure comes off as hopeless, voicing a plan is met with skepticism, not voicing a plan is disrespectful, recognizing the flaws in the game sets people up to ask why they haven't been fixed yet, and not recognizing the flaws comes off as naive and out of touch. And littered through it all are high school-tier declarations about corporatism and villainy.
When a developer delivers a bad product, communication and spin will only rarely do more than give critics, justified or otherwise, ammunition. They should limit communication to the bare minimum necessary to understand the problems in the game, keep it formal and professional, and shut out everything else until they're ready to deliver something better.
Staying quiet doesn't mean a game can be saved, but it's a safer bet than full communication, all else being equal. It's not 1:1 between indie and AAA, but the idea of saying less and delivering more still applies.
Sounding confident comes off as tone deaf, sounding unsure comes off as hopeless, voicing a plan is met with skepticism, not voicing a plan is disrespectful, recognizing the flaws in the game sets people up to ask why they haven't been fixed yet, and not recognizing the flaws comes off as naive and out of touch. And littered through it all are high school-tier declarations about corporatism and villainy.
When a developer delivers a bad product, communication and spin will only rarely do more than give critics, justified or otherwise, ammunition. They should limit communication to the bare minimum necessary to understand the problems in the game, keep it formal and professional, and shut out everything else until they're ready to deliver something better.
Staying quiet doesn't mean a game can be saved, but it's a safer bet than full communication, all else being equal. It's not 1:1 between indie and AAA, but the idea of saying less and delivering more still applies.
makes sense. the wording still seems misleading, but that's understandable. Sean now has my blessing (~:
If your plan is to stay silent post launch then do us a favor and start the practice pre-launch. Get your game out there and start fixing it before you start the sales pitch.
But at least you do get her a five course dinner at a top restaurant a few years later.
But in the mean time you neither apologized to her, told her when/where/how you were gonna get her that new five course dinner, it just kinda happen, and somehow it's expected that it still count as an appology from you, because reasons.
oh that's uh. my bad.
pretty sure he was out there in the few weeks before launch still talking about online features that didn't ship tho
Completely different situation. Those games are also operating as a service and they NEED to keep talking to keep people interested, hopeful, playing and praying they buy the currency for cosmetics.
NMS doesn't operate like that at all and they only had NMS and that game is not a service. It became better when the developer actually sat down to deliver the things they promised in their initial reveal trailer.
NMS doesn't operate like that at all and they only had NMS and that game is not a service. It became better when the developer actually sat down to deliver the things they promised in their initial reveal trailer.
ding ding ding
seriously, how many games have faced severe backlash on launch date? a handful?
the only discerning difference is the pitch that Sean set up prior to the games release, and well into the early days of launch.
congrats to the team for saving the project and turning it around, but it was in spite of Seans big mouth, not because of his discipline to shut up.
I don't think he charged people money for that commitment.
Not really the same situation.
They need people to play the game now because their model doesn't allow for selling dreams, failling short of delivery, going AWOL for a year and then coming back.
They need people to play the game now because their model doesn't allow for selling dreams, failling short of delivery, going AWOL for a year and then coming back.
He wasn't. The crossing paths tweet was when the game launched and two players found eachothers discoveries within a day. The crowbcat video everyone kept posting was an interview from before the flood and something like 2 years before launch
He's the absolute worst person to talk about this and it's been pretty obvious with his statements that he still doesn't seem to be sorry or see that what he was did deceitful and wrong. Being silent when the community realized features you promised weren't in the game was a terrible idea.
That said most of his mistakes were a result of pre-launch communication. And in the case of botched game launches I think you're kind of fucked either way. People want to see action, talk makes them angry and silence makes them angry. Fixing games talks time and there's only so much time you can stall through talk. There's no real solution other than fixing your game or - god forbid - launching with a quality title in the first place.
That said most of his mistakes were a result of pre-launch communication. And in the case of botched game launches I think you're kind of fucked either way. People want to see action, talk makes them angry and silence makes them angry. Fixing games talks time and there's only so much time you can stall through talk. There's no real solution other than fixing your game or - god forbid - launching with a quality title in the first place.
I think the assumption is they're working towards it. We see this all the time too. Even if you over communicate, you take heaps of shit from people who are never satisfied. You're better off just going silent while working to resolve the issues in your game if you don't have a choice but to release it in what is essentially a beta state.
The ideal scenario is don't release your game before it is ready, but increasingly, that just isn't an option for a lot of these studios due to shareholder value and other bullshit.
Now that I think about it FFXIV's initial failure and then redemption story is extremely relevant here:
You're lying even more than Sean did. Some of those clips were weeks before launch.
I don't know, I feel like HG went silent because they lied about their product several times, even on national television. I mean sure, Anthem has stuff in it's trailer that wasn't there at launch, but they never deceived people into thinking multiplayer was in the game when it wasn't. It's hard to make promises when no one trusts you, that's why the silence worked for them. I don't think people have lost complete faith in Bioware's word yet. Varying degrees of communication are dependent on the state of your game, and the live service stuff pretty much demands a constant flow of chatter, or your live service starts to look a bit dead and people lose faith in you. There is a time for both methods, but stating silence is the best thing isn't necessarily true in every situation.
It's easy to say this when it worked out. I mean, I"m sure people wrote this game off because of the silence. Also, his problem was talking too dang much. There's was no way he would be able to improve his game if he kept talking about what he planned on doing since that's literally what the original problem was.
I can see Fallout 76 being saved but Anthem is already a dead corpse.
Also some of the comments are really stupid considering Hello Games kept working on the game and improved it and added to it a lot without any additional charge.
Thats the total opposite of "fuck you we got your money".
Also some of the comments are really stupid considering Hello Games kept working on the game and improved it and added to it a lot without any additional charge.
Thats the total opposite of "fuck you we got your money".