While I get that, it didn't stop Sakurai.
I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
No, Game Freak doesn't make Pokémon 3D models or animations, Pokémon CG Studio does
- Thread starter Atheerios
- Start date
I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely.
I had no idea that there was a separate company for making the Pokemon models and animation. Fascinating.
Adding a new open world area and adding new features with new Pokemon in a new region with a new story and new characters is gutting it? Again, there was no way Pokemon was gonna keep going without some cuts being made to the roster. Its either now or later.
I can't help but disagree, honestly. The menus, presentation, art and animation in general... it's all very high quality. For the average player, there are almost no noticeable blemishes in sight.
I still think it's absolutely ridiculous that they won't commit to adding them in a content patch later.
What they've basically told us is that this is the new standard going forward, which means as every new generation adds new Pokemon each one will have a smaller and smaller percentage of available Pokemon in each individual game. More people are going to have their favorites left out in each title.
Hell, this means, flat out, that Sword & Shield will have less Pokemon available for the players to use than Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon did, but now the games cost twenty dollars more.
What they've basically told us is that this is the new standard going forward, which means as every new generation adds new Pokemon each one will have a smaller and smaller percentage of available Pokemon in each individual game. More people are going to have their favorites left out in each title.
Hell, this means, flat out, that Sword & Shield will have less Pokemon available for the players to use than Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon did, but now the games cost twenty dollars more.
Who the fuck makes calculation based on people working every single week of the year?
Are the laws in Japan that shit that there's no vacation days for workers or something?
Your average 3DS owner probably noticed that the worlds weren't in 3D after XY. They would have noticed the stuttering frame rate when any more than two Pokémon were out.
Yeah they even went further and suggested that there won't be any games with the whole national dex going forward. This was clearly a decision they made, not one they were forced to make due to current technical limitations. More like budget "limitations" aka, keep development cheap so we can realize maximum profit out of each title without having a large workforce for our billion dollar brand.
"Read again" at their peak there were 100 people
and also they're not the only contractors.
I think it's less a budget thing and more a time thing. The Pokemon Company has dictated a ridiculous release schedule based on their multimedia empire that just isn't realistic for what modern Pokemon development takes, and this has been leading to more and more feature cuts to the point that now they're culling actual damn Pokemon from the Pokemon games.
I think it's a very short sighted move that will have negative effects on the lasting power of the brand if it is not rethought.
The balancing and project organization is probably the bigger issue with adding pokemons in a content patch.
I'd wager that they don't view the main games as live services so most of the team would have moved on to the next project once current one is done.
And then of course there's the timing issue with them being required to release a new game every year.
Gamefreak, Nintendo, and Creatures inc OWN The Pokémon company. Why do you think they dictate anything other than licensing?
The fact that they can't see the Pokemon titles as living ecosystems of people playing and trading is really odd considering how quickly they devalued Pokemon Home with the announcement. I don't think they have any clear idea of what they're doing.
Whoever made the decision in the end, it doesn't really matter, I just think it's a time issue.
Home is really a bridge and an evolution of the the bank.
I think they perfectly understand people wanting to play with their favorite mons and all that.
Why the fuck did they try to keep the evo method internally consistent and the forward compat of mons for so long after all.
They probably don't have time to include them all and can't plan in adding them later because the team that would take care of that is gonna move on to the next project.
Pokemon games aren't live services so it's probably just a skeleton crew for patches once the games are released.
Even the mythical added "in a patch" later down the lines have always been present day 1, they just kept the monster under wrap before.
That shows a lack of synergy between whoever handles the supplemental services like Home and the main games but that's what it is.
GameFreak may be forced to transition from a product company to a service company.
and that's if there was ever a chance to have a game with the full roster in the future.
But if the games replace whats been taken with substantial content, doesn't it kinds even out? Well, I guess it depends who you are and what you want. And I guess most Pokemon fans thought this day would never come
Substantial content like what? If they're already struggling to include as many Pokémon as they are now, how are they going to add substantial content to make up for the ones left out?
Like look at the history of the series and the last few generations, theyre not going to do anything worth a damn. Hell just look at Let's Go, even with a limited Pokedex, they couldnt be bothered to do anything for that game.
We haven't seen the entire game so thats just speculation on my part. And tbf, I haven't played the games since Diamond and Pearl but I have kept up with what new Pokemon are in them and vaguely remember story details of Gen 6 and Gen 7. So from my perspective, SwSh looks like a decent step up from Gen 7. And thats fine for my tastes.
And Lets Go was more of an spin off to attract Pokemon Go players who haven't touched the main games that much.
Yeah, at the absolute minimum they really need to switch back to 4 year generations. It's crazy that they somehow managed to get through 3 in a row at only 3 years with how the graphics have been scaling up.
Aside from that, though, it's probably about time they started taking some more radical steps to lighten their workload, like doing DLC instead of third versions, or working with external studios for remakes like Nintendo does a lot, now.
If you havent really been playing since Gen 4, I dont think you really have full context here.
Let's Go is a main series game. When it came out, Go players were already in the middle of catching Gen 4 mons.
They're in the middle of Gen 4 mons doesn't mean they played the main series game before. And Let's Go's job is to attract them to play the main game.
I even saw some people think Pokemon Go is the main game and Pokemon USUM is some Chinese's knock-off...
The point is, it's not an especially great proposition to play with 2016 content when people are interested in 2018 content.
Pokemaniac is honestly on to something with regards to returning to 4-year generation cycles, getting more external help, & doing DLC instead of third versions.
- Taking third versions out of the equation would give a bit more wiggle-room for both the new generation games & the remakes when it comes to development. Plus it's not like kids mind DLC in this day & age, or free patches (just ask Fortnite).
- As pointed out, Nintendo has found success in going to external companies for help (Koei Tecmo for Three Houses & MUA3, MonolithSoft for BotW1 & I believe 2, etc.).
- While I understand that the workflow of the animation studio for the anime isn't exactly the same as it was back in the day, but better coordination with them in returning to a 2 or 3-season cycle for the anime could help space things out.
What? I think the games get consistently great reviews because despite their flaws they tend to be adequate in most areas. At the end of the day, it's Pokémon and that formula done competently is enough for a lot of people.
There's also the fact that reviewers who score them anything less than an 8 get mobbed by angry fans as happened with Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire.
Considering we didn't see any reviews ding the frame rate for the 3DS games or even Let's Go, there might be truth to the idea reviewers are frame rate blind LOL
I just don't see why delaying the release of main games will translate into losing money, if everything else keeps going on.
HAD THEY PLANNED IT LIKE THAT, the SM anime could've perfectly extended for another 100 episodes before the league if they wanted to, because of the direction they took with these seasons. The episodes weren't following the game's pace and were filled with stories like Rotom going into acting and whatnot, stories that didn't even need to feature the Gen VII Pokémon (thus proving how having new games/new Pokémon so often isn't necessary at all). Ash wasn't even traveling anymore, so they weren't even tied to the fact that he was running out of towns to visit or something (and it's not like they can't come up with their own places as they've done since forever) or gyms to defeat.
The TCG expansions always feature legendaries / Pokémon in general from past generations, even more than the current one. Same with toys and other merch. The movies from this generation didn't feature more than 10 Alolan Pokémon combined.
I'm not saying or expecting things to get delayed NOW, because I know plans have already been made. But I'm talking about the future of the franchise.
People always freak out to the idea of Pokémon total reaching 1000, as if the Bible said the end of the world will come when that happens, but with the pace they're releasing new generations, they'll reach that point in less than a decade, even if they keep introducing 70-80 Pokémon. I just don't understand why they haven't slowed down yet.
I know there's no benefit in discussing the National Pokédex at this point, since I know there's no turning back and we've discovered these past weeks that now it results that the majority of fans have never really cared about the Pokémon to begin with; as you say, it's only a vocal minority the ones that have a problem with it, and as it's happening, they won't appease our wishes, now, or ever again in the future.
However I think this is beyond how many Pokémon will appear from now on, but what kind of games they'll deliver in the future. It's clear for what we've read in the OP they're not prepared for the future of gaming consoles and the time investment they'll require to develop a decent game in the next years with the technology always evolving. And it's not like they're sticking to the Pokémon that'll appear in SwSh from now on. They're supposedly introducing the missing Pokémon from SwSh in the following games, so they'll always have the excuse that they needed to migrate those missing Pokémon thus couldn't improve in other aspects of the games. Then Gen IX will come and they'll start all over again. It's a never ending story.
What I mean is, even if they keep cutting Pokémon and we never have a full roster, as obvious and inevitable as that measure was for some people, to me is just as obvious that they need to stop at some point with the yearly releases, and those pointless sequels like USUM and focus in making complete, decent games, even if they take 4-5 years to be finished. They'll make the same money, if not more, as if they released the incomplete SM one year and USUM the next one, only that they'll get it all at once for the same game, and of course it'll take longer to see that, but at least they'll please a bigger spectrum of the fanbase.
Meanwhile Pokémon can survive with spin-off's / Pokémon Go, any kind of app they release, merch, etc, and GF will have its main projects that aren't Pokémon as well. I think to me it was even more obvious to go that route of delaying main games before cutting Pokémon creatures, but I guess I'm just insane and delusional.
The schedule for anime production sadly can't be done on that short of a time frame, especially an anime with animation as fluid as Sun and Moon. So really the only option would be reruns.
That the Pokémon series is in a position where it's not logistically possible to delay the games does not suggest great things for the future. Best case scenario is more feature cuts. Worst is that we end up with an outright unfinished game at some point.
You do realize that's an oxymoron, right?
see people keep saying that, but there is no proof that the games cant be delayed...
I know. I'm perfectly conscious that now it's too late for anything. That's why I'm saying, IN THE FUTURE, they could plan since the beginning that the next generation is gonna extend, for let's say, 4 years or 5. What does it matter to the writers / the studio that makes the anime if they have to work with old or new Pokémon? They just have to create episodes as they've done with SM where they only use the main cast's Pokémon for most of the time, or feature old Pokémon as they've also done.
A new generation every 3 years isn't needed for the anime to keep going on.
What I'm largely taking away from all of these recent revelations about Pokemon game development, is that it's a tangled clusterf**k of a mess that works with rubberbands, toothpicks, and rusty gears. That said I am of the opinion that people need to chill out. I play most pokemon games, love them, and enjoy that you can have any pokemon in the game... however all these knots, and tangles explain everything in that -
The development environment is tangled up between divisions, subdivisions, corporate, partnerships, outsourcing, multimedia etc. etc.
The issue is that it's all far too ingrained into how the franchise works, who owns it, what the expectations based on the different owners of the IP etc. Like it would be a herculean task to restructure the company into one where the development pipeline is more streamlined, so that you could allocate more resources and more creativity into the games. This is a 15 billion dollar franchise with so many hands in it, that it's not even funny.
I understand that people want the games to do what they want them to do... but I just don't think that's gonna happen. Essentially Gamefreak does what they can with what they have.
You want an example of something that had a lot of tangles? Go look up the development of Toy Story 2... That's just a movie, and one that doesn't have near the financial dominance or market presence that pokemon has. It has reused assets galore because they ran into hiccups and were told they couldn't delay it.
Things aren't as simple as the peanut gallery would believe they are. They don't run TPCi, Nintendo, Gamefreak, Creatures, the toy companies, the TV networks, the animation studios, the outsourced companies, etc. etc.
Pokemon grew fast and heavy when it got popular, this is likely a symptom of that. When companies/franchises/series grow too fast the mess of wires, and knots can over complicate the hell out of things.
This isn't God of War... where it's just one studio tasked with creating a game. As others have said this is a 15 bil dollar multimedia franchise, that's not something the average person knows how to deal with.
Essentially just don't buy it if you don't like the way things are going. Yelling at people and screaming about it is silly. I'm gonna play them anyways.
The development environment is tangled up between divisions, subdivisions, corporate, partnerships, outsourcing, multimedia etc. etc.
The issue is that it's all far too ingrained into how the franchise works, who owns it, what the expectations based on the different owners of the IP etc. Like it would be a herculean task to restructure the company into one where the development pipeline is more streamlined, so that you could allocate more resources and more creativity into the games. This is a 15 billion dollar franchise with so many hands in it, that it's not even funny.
I understand that people want the games to do what they want them to do... but I just don't think that's gonna happen. Essentially Gamefreak does what they can with what they have.
You want an example of something that had a lot of tangles? Go look up the development of Toy Story 2... That's just a movie, and one that doesn't have near the financial dominance or market presence that pokemon has. It has reused assets galore because they ran into hiccups and were told they couldn't delay it.
Things aren't as simple as the peanut gallery would believe they are. They don't run TPCi, Nintendo, Gamefreak, Creatures, the toy companies, the TV networks, the animation studios, the outsourced companies, etc. etc.
Pokemon grew fast and heavy when it got popular, this is likely a symptom of that. When companies/franchises/series grow too fast the mess of wires, and knots can over complicate the hell out of things.
This isn't God of War... where it's just one studio tasked with creating a game. As others have said this is a 15 bil dollar multimedia franchise, that's not something the average person knows how to deal with.
Essentially just don't buy it if you don't like the way things are going. Yelling at people and screaming about it is silly. I'm gonna play them anyways.
Last edited:
I don't think worlds being 3D or not have anything to do with polish? On the topic of performance in larger battles, I wont disagree with that! However I really don't think that alone would justify saying the game wasn't polished. There's more to polish than performance!
You know they have delayed things before when they knew well in advance there would be problems, right?
Does that change the fact that the Wild Area is a new addition to the series?
I assumed the Lets Go series was used to draw in new players who primarily played Pokemon Go. Tho I do know Lets Go was a core game just not one with some mainline mechanics
Well patches were enabled later, and Smash bros 4 got dlc content just fine on the 3DS. No hassle there. What's the issue, if other games are able to do it.
I remember Sakurai saying about some crazy restrictions you had with patches on Smash though?
It was a number of times 3DS games could be updated and perhaps it was a software limit, anyhow Smash bros for 3DS received 17 updates, don't think Pokemon DLC would have required that much to add a few more Pokemon.
Lets see what they will do with the Switch, no excuses now.
They could have patched the ORAS Megas to X/Y and distributed the mega stones periodically and the 5 new mons + 3 new forms in SuMo for compatability. They really don't have any excuse.
Yes and Gamefreak/Nintendo explicitly said that Let's Go was intended for old and new fans alike. That means mainline game in my book.
How is it "less excuses"?
So because they outsource it that means that problems can't occur?
So, is this company also responsible for the models in Pokemon Go? Or do Niantic handle those in house?
That game uses the same models as the Game Freak developed games.
The "Ask a Game Dev" tumbler recently talked about the difficulties you would have in creating every Pokemon.
askagamedev.tumblr.com
“Holy crap, they need to update that many? I’m surprised they didn’t cut [the national pokedex] years ago!”
what do you think about the Pokemon Sword and Shield controversy? from the e3 direct, youtube at the point in 25:00 to the end and the interviews usgamer and the famitsu article translations do you...
askagamedev.tumblr.com
Given the time and budget and number of Pokemon, I don't think you can actually do any better. Does any other developer on the planet need to deal with issues like this?
