Criticising mismanagement isn't throwing a tantrum. Some people have very clearly articulated their problem with GF and aren't being babies. So maybe don't tar all of us with your broad brush
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No, Game Freak doesn't make Pokémon 3D models or animations, Pokémon CG Studio does
- Thread starter Atheerios
- Start date
Criticising mismanagement isn't throwing a tantrum. Some people have very clearly articulated their problem with GF and aren't being babies. So maybe don't tar all of us with your broad brush
I don't get why this keeps being brought up; when people are upset at "gamefreak" it's just like when people blame "activision" for a game made by, for example, Treyarch. Yeah, it's oversimplifying but everyone knows what they mean and it's barely incorrect in a meaningful context. In fact, Activision tells them what to do anyway, and determining exact blame any given issue in a game between it's publisher and developer can be nearly impossible--and publishers will never help you clear that up.
It's a subsidiary company of the same company people are mad at, doing the thing people are mad at, being paid exclusively by the people they're mad at. This is pedantic at best.
This makes no sense for various reasons. They're literally a company whose job is to make the models, what do you mean "there's nothing GF can do". This is like saying Xbox did Y, there's nothing Microsoft can do. Also, they already have the models? Like, Pokemon Masters just game out. They're the 3DS game models. They still have them. They were designed to be reused.
It's a subsidiary company of the same company people are mad at, doing the thing people are mad at, being paid exclusively by the people they're mad at. This is pedantic at best.
This makes no sense for various reasons. They're literally a company whose job is to make the models, what do you mean "there's nothing GF can do". This is like saying Xbox did Y, there's nothing Microsoft can do. Also, they already have the models? Like, Pokemon Masters just game out. They're the 3DS game models. They still have them. They were designed to be reused.
And that just happens sometimes. Delays in general result in large amounts of planning being scrapped or altered entirely. The Inazuma Eleven games were supposed to be made on pace with the anime and merchandise in their marketing strategy, but I sure as hell am glad they delayed the project rather than releasing a lesser work.
It's so silly that some people are willing to give GF any kind of excuse seemingly.
No it's not. This is a big problem with these complaints, they have no understanding of who makes these damn games. Creatures is a completely separate company from Gamefreak.
I imagine it's because the criticisms aren't very well articulated and seem to come from a completely ignorant stance about game development. Like the post above yours. While the same people simultaneously fall for the obvious grift that is youtuber gamer outrage.
User Banned (3 Days): Inflammatory Accusation and Misrepresenting Other Users
Maybe if that people didn't harass Masuda, that has nothing to do with it, to the point of making fake sexual harassment and rape accusations, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's so easy to say stuff about the people making the games when the closest they've been to a game developer is going to their Twitter to insult them.
But no, let's just keep watching people that know shit about the situation. People that say they know what's going on with GF and that they want to kill their own franchise because they want to focus on mobile games. People that still think Game Freak on their own make the entire games when there are companies and companies helping them to do the game. Let's just circlejerk about how bad Game Freak is on stuff they don't even make, because it's the simple way to do it. Because being informed is way harder than going to a forum and writing the three magic words. "Game Freak bad".
Does that fundamentally change the argument? All that does is shift the blame from one entity to another by your logic, so that does mean this is just pedantic.
This is what makes discussion with a lot of you people so futile. Stop acting like the dumb minority that throw death threats and use incoherent arguments are the majority of people complaining. Plenty of people have made compelling criticisms, and plenty of people know full well what game development entails. People are so quick to blame "gamer outrage" when most people, especially on a site like this are far more reasonable. Makes you guys look like you're fearful of a boogieman of some kind.
And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't care either way. Never have I collected every pokemon, nor do I intend to. And I forget I still sub to Pokebank I use it to little. But some of the defenses of gamefreak are just silly. Especially when so often they come across as strawman arguments.
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And now Inazuma Eleven is dead, people dont care anymore and the game will sell like shit. I dont blame TPC for not wanting to kill its series by treating it like Level 5 treats inazuma and yokai watch
Making the rest of the animations of the game, as the Op says?? All character animations, UI animations and you know - Everything else that is moving in any way in the game.
Have a read of this post from an actual developer, not a youtuber or random from the Internet
And this from another but on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/cgh8fy/long_post_warning_an_actual_technical_analysis_of/
A new engine can screw up existing models, animation rigs etc.
You're doing it again.
Do you think everyone who has issues with GF agree with the Masuda harassment or the libel bullshit?
The Youtubers that have been harping on about this are the absolute worst.
One tried to discredit a professional translation I provided using Google Translate and people bought it because he is a youtuber
Oh my god seriously?
Do you think pokemon is in such a fragile position that a delay would kill the whole series?
Last time I checked Dragon Ball was alive till Super and the Zelda manages to take it's sweet time just perfectly.
All of my criticisms of Gamefreak have been longer than three words and while I can't speak for Twitter, plenty of people on here including myself have kept our criticism civil. I denounce anyone attacking Masuda or anyone else at Nintendo/ GF /TPC/or Creatures.
Criticism is good. Criticism helps grow and I thank you for being one of the few civil about it.
Many people, maybe not the majority but certainly the vocal, have not been civil.
You are just moving the goalposts for him. His point was that Creatures is a subsidiary of Gamefreak, so blaming Gamefreak was fine. This thread is meant to correct a part of the vast amount of ignorance about the development of these games. It's clearly needed since he has zero understanding of what Creatures is. He even gives an example of Xbox and Microsoft.
Here's some food for thought: Maybe don't bring up someone's false rape accusation every time their name is mentioned
Nah, I agree that swsh should be delayed and 2019 should be a year off, Im just saying that Inazuma Eleven isnt the best exemple
It's at least respectable for not shitting out whatever for the sake of yearly releases. Though what you say relies entirely on conjecture. Especially when the anime is still popular in Japan and growing in the west.
Plus, Pokemon would not take half of a fall as Inazuma Eleven if it released even a year from now later lmao
If y'all keep supporting the people that supports that stuff, yes. If y'all keep supporting these youtubers and personalities that spews lies because they just fit the narrative of "Game Freak bad", yes.
But I guess it's easier to think they're just lying about their own damn game because they want money. Way easier than to think "Hey, they got into problems with the game development and they just can't do it all" or "Hey, there's too much stuff to do apart from making models and maybe not putting all the Pokémon in the game is the only way to deliver a polished Pokémon game on time without overworking your employees to death like pretty much every company does". Or, you know, maybe Creatures Inc. ran into problems. Who knows? Way better than talking shit about them.
Here's some food for thought: Maybe be mature and don't harass people over videogames.
In terms of informing people, sure. But the argument does not fundamentally change whatsoever.
Do you have proof of literally ANYONE in this thread making that argument harassing people over this? I don't know how you don't see the fault in your position right now.
if you had a corkboard with red yarn linking all these things together on your wall like i do, you'd know this by now
It kinda does, given the basis of the argument is completely wrong.
Well, shit. There goes my weekend.
The anime is not still popular in Japan. And "growing in the west" is a really gracious way of saying it went from having 0 viewers to 5. And I say this as one of the biggest fans of the franchise
This kind of post is why I'm not gonna bother with mainline Pokémon in this forum anymore. It's clear that many of those defending GF are using the shameful and regrettable personal attacks and drama to generalize the entirety of complaints in order to disregard them. It's really exhausting because we can't complain anymore, so I'll leave it at that, you all win.
Thanks for being well spoken and sourcing all of your info as well. Even though we disagree, you've always done such a service for the community that I respect whatever you have to add
So it goes from blaming one entity to another. Now what? lol
I'm not saying they're right for blaming anyone to begin with because that I disagree with, but no the argument is still inherently the same.
Any argument against that is entirely based on conjecture. We don't know how Inazuma Eleven Ares will perform, and we don't know how SWSH would have performed if it were delayed. My point is simply that it is not unheard of, and that Pokemon is clearly a stronger brand than Inazuma Eleven to stand on its feet. Especially when Pokemon games have been delayed before. What you're arguing right now isn't the point I was trying to make.
Mate, every Pokémon thread since E3 has been only talking about the models stuff independently of the original topic. Discussing the game itself has been impossible because there's people always saying the same stuff. You can't even talk about the region, or how the cities would be, or the order of the gyms without someone reminding you that you're a dumb fuck because you're buying the game. And you're saying "you can't complain anymore?". Lmao.
That's generalization. Do you really think that most of us who complain about this decision are ok with that kind of behaviour? Harassing developers and making such terrible accusations is unacceptable but it doesn't represent the vast majority of this side at all, nor invalidates valid criticism.
I have watched exactly one video about this mess and it was Jwitzz who really wasn't that outraged.
I have no idea whee you're getting this "supporting youtubers" nonsense. I'm perfectly capable of being upset with Game Freak on my own thank you very much.
Companies lie. This isn't new. Maybe something went wrong and that's why the models look exactly like the 3DS ones despite being supposedly made from scratch. But if they don't TELL us those reason we only have their word vs what we see.
The only one trying to simplify anything here is you trying o claim anyone who has something bad to say about GF must be some outrage chasing youtuber and clearly agree with all the people doing shitty things despite the fact I've never seen one person in any of these threads condone the harrasment.
I don't think it would be the end of the world if the anime/cards/merch for the games came out a few months before the games. It's not like the anime is over in a month or even a year.
You are not making any sense at all. I don't give a rat's ass about some incel making videos on Youtube, I have a right to voice my opinions on the direction one of my favorite series is taking and i have always done so in a civilized and constructive manner. Stop generalizing.
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This really doesn't substantially change anything about the situation. If anything, the fact that they're already outsourcing the models makes them look worse for not stepping things up to finish all of them.
They can't delay the game now, because everything has already been set in motion for a 2019 release, but that's only because they already locked themselves in to the decision to ship an unfinished game months ago.
Of course they can be delayed. It's happened before in the past. If they were actually interesting in solving the issues, they had plenty of time to decide that the game wasn't going to be done for 2019 and push it back.
They can't delay the game now, because everything has already been set in motion for a 2019 release, but that's only because they already locked themselves in to the decision to ship an unfinished game months ago.
Blaming game development woes seems to be the logical course.
Imagine this scenario.
You have a game series, you've got 1016 Pokémon form models to bring over, each with over a dozen animations and you bring them over and over.
You're spearheading a new game and it's on a new engine, but disaster. When you port over the models, some parts work...say the wireframes, but the animation rigs break. You need to rebuild or rerig the animations for every single model, and test that every single animation works and if it doesn't, you'll have to rerecord it and rerig it. Think of the monumental amount of work. It's not something that you can do in 5 minutes, check off, do the next one.
It does come down to manpower, but that's a finite resource and can't necessarily magic into existence, as much as we may do the "hire more people" retort
I believe a situation like this may be what is responsible and why they had to "rebuild the models". I hope we can find some evidence of this soon after launch or they reveal the woes that led to this decision in depth in an interview. I'd have loved an Iwata's Asks for this
That doesn't make sense. That's not how it works.
Is that true, though? Maybe someone is overreacting by using generalizations in every post, and that someone ain't me. Anyway, as I said, I'm done with mainline pokémon discussion in this forum, some people are just too much, so you go enjoy wasting your time generalizing everything to try and disregard proper criticism, I've got plenty of games to enjoy and am actually away on vacations right now, no need to sour my vacations discussing this topic for the who knows what time now.
Basically. And when they get called out for it they just ignore it. Ironic that they're defending against criticisms while proving to be immune to logical critiques themselves. It's silly and just results in an endless loop of blaming the boogieman when plenty of people have made informed arguments.
oh if they could, they would.
in fact they did. Layton, Yokai, Inazuma literally used to have 2 main games a year to get out all the sales they could at the peaks
One in July. One in December. Each year. not to mention spinoffs. Inazama one year released 3 games in a row in Nov. As in, 3 consecutive weeks. Yes.
lol, no wonder they're all dying/dead.
(I was randomly looking through level-5 the other day)
I still don't get why the arguments are about the models and animations. If they just needed updating that would just be an issue for a few games till eventually everyone is good to go. They've made it pretty clear that it's a creative decision that they currently plan to hold to for future games.
It's a highly parallelizable problem. It's one of the relatively few cases where just throwing more people at it would actually work.
You should probably reread his damn argument, since it's clear you have zero idea what it is. Actually screw it, let's not derail a thread that already has shaky rails.
Right, this is the part that really burns me. If they planned on patching in the rest of the pokemon in at a later date (like they did with Sun/Moon) I would be happy. But they just flat out don't want to do it, and aren't going to.
It's not like they can't afford to hire more staff.
This is the biggest reason I have trouble believing the "they must have had issues with the models" reasoning.
If that was the case why would they more or less say "we're never making a game with all pokemon again?"
If it was a modeling issue why couldn't they just patch them in latter or in a future release?
So if I'm understanding this correctly, GF approves animations and 3D models but work on human NPCs and other animations in house. They also provide the 2D concepts for the Pokemon as well for Creatures Inc
I know they aren't just sitting on their asses doing nothing so I'm curious as to what their actual workload looks like. Rather than assume this makes them look worse. Ultimately cutting some Pokemon was eventually gonna happen. If people thought it wouldn't eventually occur, then Idk what to tell ya.
I know they aren't just sitting on their asses doing nothing so I'm curious as to what their actual workload looks like. Rather than assume this makes them look worse. Ultimately cutting some Pokemon was eventually gonna happen. If people thought it wouldn't eventually occur, then Idk what to tell ya.
It's more me saying that to get the staff required, there would need to be a crapload of high level animators inexplicably without jobs so they could start immediately. You can't just suddenly have such a large influx. That's not how life or the industry works