• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Birdseeding

Member
Mar 13, 2018
467
Quality long-read on censorship in China from a local and global perspective, going into depth and detail and putting it in an international context

China's video game market is the world's biggest. International developers want in on it – but its rules on what is acceptable are growing increasingly harsh. Is it worth the compromise?

[...]

In the video game industry, as in many sectors, most censorship is not about top-down directives. Because the official guidelines are so vague, foreign developers tend to abide by a fuzzy, speculative and ever-changing set of unwritten "rules", many of which are gleaned from trial and error. Time travel, for example, is considered best avoided. "I'm not 100% sure why," said the industry insider I spoke to. "But from what I heard it's because the government doesn't want the people to think there is a possibility of going back in time and changing the party regime." Lokman Tsui, the Chinese censorship expert, suggested this may be true, pointing out that history and science fiction have sometimes been used to surreptitiously criticise the government. "For a while, history was a loophole for discussing political stuff," he said. "You would tell tales to make political commentary. I don't know if that is similar for time travel, but I can imagine there is some similar logic going on there."

[...]

Ostensibly liberal governments also censor. Australia has a particularly paternalistic attitude to video games, restricting them much more than TV or film. In Europe, German regulators have banned scores of mainstream games for gratuitous violence. For this reason, some Chinese industry figures argue that singling out China is unfair. "The direction this conversation usually goes is people say [video game developers] are bowing their heads, or 'kowtowing'. They use some shitty, racist, veiled language to say how people are trying to make money," said one person at NetEase. He pointed out that age ratings of films, TV shows and video games are also a form of censorship that dictates artistic choices. Hollywood producers will make sure films are edited to get a PG-13 rather than an adult rating, because that means they can pack the cinemas with teenagers. "In the same sense, you can say that is censoring to try to make money," said the NetEase staffer.

www.theguardian.com

No cults, no politics, no ghouls: how China censors the video game world

The long read: China’s video game market is the world’s biggest. International developers want in on it – but its rules on what is acceptable are growing increasingly harsh. Is it worth the compromise?
 
Dec 2, 2017
20,611
Time travel, for example, is considered best avoided. "I'm not 100% sure why," said the industry insider I spoke to. "But from what I heard it's because the government doesn't want the people to think there is a possibility of going back in time and changing the party regime."

Thats certainly a Take.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,993
The theory that the CCP may be about avoiding stories that could be used to sneak in criticism makes sense - some of the major Chinese classics were built like that, like The Water Margin.
 
Apr 26, 2020
736
this maybe isnt the place to post this but China and her practises always let me imagine how a world would look like where this kind of government involvement was worldwide the standard and let it be said, im glad i dont live in that timeline
 

YoungGunsII

Banned
Apr 23, 2019
1,115
Denmark
User Banned (1 Month): Racist Generalization
Well I guess that's part of the reason, why there is no good games coming out of China.
 

lairo

Member
May 28, 2020
463
The way all media seems to be watered and toned down these past couple of years to appease the Chinese government is just appalling. It really depresses me.
 

KillLaCam

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,383
Seoul
The one that really annoys me is the "no ghouls" or whatever, if thats the reason for alot of the changes in FFXV
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,219
Boo. This smoothskin is all about cults and ghouls (and politics).

Then, in 2018, the government announced it was halting the release of any new games, Chinese or international. The ban lasted nine months. No official reason was ever provided. [...] "It was kind of a slap on the wrist to Tencent, to say, 'Yes, you are a multibillion conglomerate, but you still have to obey the Chinese government," said the insider. This slap on the wrist caused Tencent stocks to plunge by 40% in just a few months, wiping $200bn off its value – a hit it took a long time to recover from.
[...]
Before the shutdown, Tencent usually had a hands-off approach when working with developers, said the insider. Now, he said, they are under far more pressure to control the content of their games.

Pretty nuts. You may be one of the biggest companies in the world, but nothing's guaranteed if the rules of the game shift whenever regulators feel like changing them.
 
Last edited:

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,560
The one that really annoys me is the "no ghouls" or whatever, if thats the reason for alot of the changes in FFXV

Eh that has never been proven to be true.

If censorship was an issue, they can always make cosmetic changes, rename things, to fit with whatever meets the censorship board criteria. It's not like they didn't have to make changes to the final game.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,993
Excellent read. But fuck that NetEase guy near the end. Saying game companies are kowtowing to a genocidal dictatorship that uses slave labor to make our consoles isn't racist, it's the fucking truth. Fuck the CCP.
It's trying to conflating things. You could make an argument that "kowtowing" in this context can be used a racist dogwhistle - remember, it's a Chinese loanword, and so using it here underscores the CCP as alien. It's still important to keep in the back of our minds that we're in a period of increased racial violence against Asians.

But even if racism is brought out in communicating the concern or if it's brought into general fearmongering, the CCP's use of censorship to maintain power and silence legitimate criticism is a genuine point of concern, and the Netease CEO is bringing it up solely to shield the CCP.

It's an age-old tactic, like the USSR using the KKK as a deflection from their own atrocities.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,126
It would be odd to me if time travel is considered taboo in a video game when a movie like Avengers Endgame can make half a billion dollars in the Chinese box office. Maybe it's different for games but I'm having a hard time squaring that claim.

The idea that someone would like, make a video game where you travel back in time to the Chinese Civil War to ensure the KMT's victory is pretty funny to me though.
 

Falk

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,039
Recommendations from local partners on how to localize a specific game tend to play it very, VERY safe considering the turnaround time on getting a game vetted and the very real chance of failing and either going back to the drawing board, which can be a matter of months, or outright being banned.

When the entire process is a black box with some discernible hint of non-standard results for similar issues, suddenly completely batshit suggestions start getting taken seriously too.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,745
No Politics?

Finally someone is looking out for us gamers 😎

I laughed, had the same thought that the GamerGate crowd would be so pleased with this approach.


For all the whataboutism the last thread produced (with someone bravely declaring that the entire games industry is built around US imperialism):, its addressed in the article

Frustration with the focus on China is motivated partly by a sense of double standards. Much of the global games industry, like the film industry, has long been shaped by a jingoistic American outlook. Just as action movies during the cold war often had Russian villains, video games since 9/11 have stereotyped Arabs and Muslims as henchmen to be gunned down. One upcoming game, called Six Days in Fallujah, portrays the events of a bloody 2004 Iraq war attack from the perspective of American soldiers. One gaming news website, Kotaku, mockingly referred to it as "war crime simulator". Indeed, the part of the industry that makes shooting games is deeply entwined with the US military. Games have been created specifically in order to recruit soldiers, and developers regularly collaborate with the US military – and gun makers – to create their games.
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,181
I understand now why almost all of the new characters in League of Legends have been hot young anime esq people.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,213
Dev: "why is my game banned in China???"

China:

tenor.gif
 

francium87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,041
My understanding of why time travel stuff is banned is this (this happened just around the time I left, so this could be wrong, but online discussions do think it's): about a decade ago time travel romance tv became super popular (think a modern person goes back in time and becomes the empress), and the government decided to crack down because... I don't know it was stupid? And claimed it was disrespectful to traditional culture and history.

As some have noted, its not all time travel being banned. A super popular movie from early this year was about going back in time to meet her mother. That wasn't blocked or anything.
 

Nola

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,025
this maybe isnt the place to post this but China and her practises always let me imagine how a world would look like where this kind of government involvement was worldwide the standard and let it be said, im glad i dont live in that timeline
I mean, increasingly, you kind of are.

Fact is that all the theories about increasing economic trade having the effect of liberalizing China have in practice nearly done the opposite. China's market is such a golden goose now that companies the world over are willing to bend over backwards to accommodate their censorship and the result is that increasingly things like media are inseparable from being self censored for all audiences in the way they would be censored if they were solely a Chinese product.

In essence, in many sectors, American companies are effectively governing their businesses as if they lived under Chinese censorship in order to maintain healthy business relations.
 

Xalbur

Member
Mar 30, 2019
569
What really annoys me about this discussion is that people that defend this are either forgetting or ignoring that while you have a lot of western games conforming to western ideals, there's nothing stopping you from releasing a game in those markets that criticizes them, that's the big difference, there's obviously been some attempts to censor games in the west and those suck too.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
My understanding of why time travel stuff is banned is this (this happened just around the time I left, so this could be wrong, but online discussions do think it's): about a decade ago time travel romance tv became super popular (think a modern person goes back in time and becomes the empress), and the government decided to crack down because... I don't know it was stupid? And claimed it was disrespectful to traditional culture and history.

As some have noted, its not all time travel being banned. A super popular movie from early this year was about going back in time to meet her mother. That wasn't blocked or anything.
Yeah its probably only if it depicts a period of China's past that they aren't happy is being shown or aren't happy with how it's represented
 
Mar 11, 2021
1,017
Awful

Just awful

Wish people were more brave and direct when speaking out.... On here, as well...

Everyone is afraid of China....
 

Forkball

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,940
Bring back Skeleton King.

The Netease guy brings up an interesting point, in that self censorship happens all the time in the quest for money, but I think he fails to realize the difference between self control and completely changing what makes the art interesting.
 

BBboy20

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,985
Bring back Skeleton King.

The Netease guy brings up an interesting point, in that self censorship happens all the time in the quest for money, but I think he fails to realize the difference between self control and completely changing what makes the art interesting.
Also the threat of making people disappear.
 
Oct 30, 2017
831
South Coast, UK
Not sure why some people were put off by the comments made about censorship elsewhere. It is, of course, worth mentioning just how much China gets singled out for its censorship when countries with less of a precedent for it are butchering content to appeal to their respective governments. It just especially sucks these rules seem so loose and now obtuse, when it's comparatively clear in Australia and Germany.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,745
Bring back Skeleton King.

The Netease guy brings up an interesting point, in that self censorship happens all the time in the quest for money, but I think he fails to realize the difference between self control and completely changing what makes the art interesting.

Its also the fact that purely fictional narratives can be challenged, gameplay elements refuted, and representation denied. Whereas the appeal to younger demographics are simple decisions on how much gore and nudity to display. Nothing comparable. Its no surprise that the people kneedeep in this shit will immediately appeal to whataboutism as their only defense.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
Eh that has never been proven to be true.

If censorship was an issue, they can always make cosmetic changes, rename things, to fit with whatever meets the censorship board criteria. It's not like they didn't have to make changes to the final game.
WoW was modified for the Chinese client to replace all zombies/ghouls/undeads with « something » that doesn't show bones/blood/decay.

it's quite impressive actually
 
Jun 2, 2019
1,042
To be honest, I find it very frustrating and kind of scary how this seems to be big companies' default answer to everything now, not just in the gaming world.

"Why can't there be LGBT characters in this game/movie/cartoon/whatever?"

"Because China won't like it."
 
Last edited:

Jroc

Banned
Jun 9, 2018
6,145
The theory that the CCP may be about avoiding stories that could be used to sneak in criticism makes sense - some of the major Chinese classics were built like that, like The Water Margin.

I can see why "Time Travel" stories are best avoided since they inevitably lead to cross-generational comparisons on some level. Either something in the past will be pointed out as bad (potentially dangerous) or something in the past will be pointed out as better than the present (definitely dangerous).
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,560
WoW was modified for the Chinese client to replace all zombies/ghouls/undeads with « something » that doesn't show bones/blood/decay.

it's quite impressive actually

They did the same with some of the monsters in FFXV but definitely not the same scale since WoW is much bigger. I guess the potential revenue outweighs the cost.

Awful

Just awful

Wish people were more brave and direct when speaking out.... On here, as well...


Everyone is afraid of China....

???
 

DOBERMAN INC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,991
Heading to my pitch meeting right now.

It's a game about a cult of ghouls who must go back in time to bring down the government.

p.s : Your best friend is a talking pie.