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Deleted member 36622

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 21, 2017
6,639
Opinion: Nintendo Delaying Metroid Prime 4 is Fine Because Metroid Games Aren't That Great Anyway

I knew we'd get articles like this. Though he is wondering what it is people like about the series more than anything, not hating.

It's so funny he says he doesn't care about Metroid Prime 4 because he didn't like Super Metroid, without knowing that the Prime series is substantially different from the 2D games: the pace is slower, it is more about exploring the environments and scanning things and the puzzles are a bit more complex.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
So here is some old info I have then I never posted.

Essentially MP4 as a project started at the end of 2016/beginning of 2017. Bandai Namco Singapore worked on the pre-production phase which I believe ended before the trailer at E3 was shown. So that's how early Nintendo decided to announce that the game was in development. Game was based on Unreal 4 and was always going to be a 2019 or 2020 release. Bandai Namco Japan was brought on to work on the game and Nintendo studios were also assisting in various areas. From what I heard, Nintendo wanted to push MP4 to be a flagship title, so increased the budget and scope of the game to try and get it to that AAA level.

Seems things weren't working for this reboot to happen.
given this, the decision to reboot the game must have been an easy one. there probably wasn't too much done and it was a poorly made vertical slice that unsold Nintendo. given the time span of the intended release, maybe we can see MP4 sooner than we thought
 

Mory Dunz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,362
interesting info from Zhuge.

switching from Bandai singapore to Bandai Namco Japan.

I'm just curious what the issue was.
Was it Nintendo's side messing up?
Or Bandai maybe?

What's the biggest delay or misstep a Bandai Namco big game has had? I feel like they usually get...something out.
I'm leaning maybe Nintendo's structure for the game development was the issue.

but don't know anything of course.
 
interesting info from Zhuge.

switching from Bandai singapore to Bandai Namco Japan.

I'm just curious what the issue was.
Was it Nintendo's side messing up?
Or Bandai maybe?

What's the biggest delay or misstep a Bandai Namco big game has had? I feel like they usually get...something out.
I'm leaning maybe Nintendo's structure for the game development was the issue.

but don't know anything of course.
Code Vein has been tripped up a couple of times already. That one can be chalked up to the fact that they decided to add multiplayer quite late into the development, but as some folks have pointed out, it was announced before God Eater 3 was and now God Eater 3 is releasing before it.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
So here is some old info I have then I never posted.

Essentially MP4 as a project started at the end of 2016/beginning of 2017. Bandai Namco Singapore worked on the pre-production phase which I believe ended before the trailer at E3 was shown. So that's how early Nintendo decided to announce that the game was in development. Game was based on Unreal 4 and was always going to be a 2019 or 2020 release. Bandai Namco Japan was brought on to work on the game and Nintendo studios were also assisting in various areas. From what I heard, Nintendo wanted to push MP4 to be a flagship title, so increased the budget and scope of the game to try and get it to that AAA level.

Seems things weren't working for this reboot to happen.
This sounds great, in the sense that if Retro was brought aboard something really wicked this way comes. I have a feeling they aren't going to completely throw everything away, but assimilate stuff like the story and general premise into their game. If Retro pulls off a BotW moment for Metroid Prime 4 I couldn't be happier.
 

Dany1899

Member
Dec 23, 2017
4,219
This sounds great, in the sense that if Retro was brought aboard something really wicked this way comes. I have a feeling they aren't going to completely throw everything away, but assimilate stuff like the story and general premise into their game. If Retro pulls off a BotW moment for Metroid Prime 4 I couldn't be happier.
But could they use stuff which at least partially have been made by Namco Bandai? I don't know, for this reason I ask. I suppose anyway that depends on how the contract between Namco and Nintendo was defined.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Metroid FF deserved all the hate. It was yet anothet sad attempt to turn Prime into another mediocre shooter. It was really awful to see innovative indies develop awsome Metroidvanias left and right while Nintendo was busy destroying the legacy of a legendary series.

Yeah its only a video game but guess what? This video game means a lot for a lot of people, just look how they reacted at E3 and how happy they were, if not for strong fans rejection for FF maybe Nintendo would have never corrected the situation with this series.
You mean a small part of Next Level Games's team was busy destroying the legacy of a legendary franchise.
It was Nintendo. Acting like Nintendo wasn't overseeing the effort is disingenuous
FF was Tanabe's baby through and through. All the bad decissions of that game come from him directly and Next level games were just doing grunt work.
When Next level games (and retro in older cases with Tanabe, and actually the majority of games released by studios working with Nintendo, were he is just a simple producer) are left with creative freedom you can see a bunch of interviews with the directors and leads of the games, with tanabe overseeing them. When Tanabe is the only one who talks, were he jas the main idea and then looks for a team to amke what he wants, like happened with FF by NLG, MPH by NTS and mp4 by namco singapour, were he is the mouthpiece of every article released of the gane, or cases were the press had to actually look for which team he was working for, because Tanabe never wants to say it, he is a producer acting as a director and he is demonstrating again and again thats bad news. See the diference also with Sakamoto doing the same with other M and team ninja, and actually leaving the director of Samus Returns talk on interviews with him this time. And Sakamoto is a thousand times better creative person than Tanabe.

So dont shit over NLG, they are an awesome studio that had the displeasure of working with Tanabe on a forced game with his shitty ideas (something that retro has talked about in some interviews in the past, i think it was the mp3 iwata asks were they say the have to somewhat play with some of Tanabe's absurd ideas, in fact Tanabe says that yep, he does that to see what sticks), instead of tanabe just acting as a producer and them doing all creative work as in the mario strikers games, punch-out!! Luigis mansion 2 and now 3.

The only thing that tanabe has going for him is that he actually owned the fault of him thinking FF was a good idea by making the infamous video explanation after the deserved uproar. But that also demonstrates he is not good with lead creative decissions now.

If sylux is nowhere to be seen or doesnt act as the main villain of the game in retro's version of MP4, you will see who actually got the complete creative reigns of the games, because from what Tanabe has said multiple times, is what he wanted MP4 heading to. And the less input he has over the games the best for all of us.

Ya'll doing a great job at proving those negative stereotypes of Metroid fans.
 
But could they use stuff which at least partially have been made by Namco Bandai? I don't know, for this reason I ask. I suppose anyway that depends on how the contract between Namco and Nintendo was defined.
I think that by virtue of it being a game that Nintendo was funding 100%, there's not a lot that Bamco has to stand on in terms of claims. It's more likely that the code isn't salvageable due to differing development environments (Retro may not be using UE4, current assets won't gel with the art direction that Retro has in mind, etc.) than it is owing to Nintendo not being able to utilize them.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
So what Retro has been doing for the past several years? Lmao.

Guess another 4 years until their next game? This is honestly embarrassing.
Not as embarrassing as your post.
You can not know whether they have a finished game waiting to be released.
Some people in here would win a gold medal in jumping to conclusions.
 

Dany1899

Member
Dec 23, 2017
4,219
I think that by virtue of it being a game that Nintendo was funding 100%, there's not a lot that Bamco has to stand on in terms of claims. It's more likely that the code isn't salvageable due to differing development environments (Retro may not be using UE4, current assets won't gel with the art direction that Retro has in mind, etc.) than it is owing to Nintendo not being able to utilize them.
I was thinking also about the assets, this aspect of the cancelled project was of course the first one to be completely remade. Then I suppose there should have been also gameplay problems, Nintendo always focus a lot on gameplay.
But if the story can be kept, I think a target as end of 2021- beginning of 2022 could also possible, if we consider that from what Zhuge said, the cancelled project started around 2016/2017 and would have been released in 2019/2020, so 3/4 years.
 

m051293

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,658
So here is some old info I have then I never posted.

Essentially MP4 as a project started at the end of 2016/beginning of 2017. Bandai Namco Singapore worked on the pre-production phase which I believe ended before the trailer at E3 was shown. So that's how early Nintendo decided to announce that the game was in development. Game was based on Unreal 4 and was always going to be a 2019 or 2020 release. Bandai Namco Japan was brought on to work on the game and Nintendo studios were also assisting in various areas. From what I heard, Nintendo wanted to push MP4 to be a flagship title, so increased the budget and scope of the game to try and get it to that AAA level.

Seems things weren't working for this reboot to happen.
Nice info. Stuff I kept trying to tell people that Nintendo was going to push this as a big deal title. You bring Metroid Prime back you bring it back with a bang.

Yeah the environment/audience is different today. The genre/style alone has way more mainstream appeal today than it back when MP1/2/3 released; I'm sure Nintendo recognizes the potential here.

I am guessing they're going to be looking additional support teams though, is Retro even big enough at the moment to support development of a game of that scope?
 
I was thinking also about the assets, this aspect of the cancelled project was of course the first one to be completely remade. Then I suppose there should have been also gameplay problems, Nintendo always focus a lot on gameplay.
But if the story can be kept, I think a target as end of 2021- beginning of 2022 could also possible, if we consider that from what Zhuge said, the cancelled project started around 2016/2017 and would have been released in 2019/2020, so 3/4 years.
The story won't have much bearing on how development turns out, as it's always been non-invasive in Retro's games. Even Prime 3, the most bombastic in the series as far as that element is concerned, would probably get laughed at by folks more acclimated to stuff that you'd find in Sony's games for being quaint and marginal. It's all about those sweet, delicious lore entries.
 

Timppis

Banned
Apr 27, 2018
2,857
Every new game Retro has made has had less of a metacritic score than previous entries.

Will Metroid Prime be the one that dips below 80 or the rumored Starfox GP already before that?
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Every new game Retro has made has had less of a metacritic score than previous entries.

Will Metroid Prime be the one that dips below 80 or the rumored Starfox GP already before that?
Star Fox will be a a 79, MP4 will be a 72

Retro will be shuttered and the prophecy will be complete
 

Timppis

Banned
Apr 27, 2018
2,857
Star Fox will be a a 79, MP4 will be a 72

Retro will be shuttered and the prophecy will be complete
This is my guess.

Metroid Prime 4 will not have people crying and being childish because it's FUCKING DONKEY KONG, so no
I would have loved them to complete Donkey Kong Trilogy. Tropical Freeze was miles better than 83 metacritic score.

But they were all ≥ 90
Nope. Only Metroid games were. After that Donkey Kong Country Returns was 87, then Mario Kart 7 86 and Tropical Freeze 83
 

EAD Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,347
I think the original plan was for Metroid Prime 4 to be developed by Tanabe's EPD production team and Next Level Games. Unfortunately, the mishap and public perception of Federation Force, made the idea of the same groups developing Metroid Prime 4 a PR nightmare.

What does Tanabe do? Went to plan C and took the MP3 source code to Japan and worked around an ad-hoc development team which Nintendo has done on several occasions the last few years. Namco-Bandai Singapore has been linked to that ad-hoc team, and I think there are a couple of things people are overlooking and incorrectly extrapolating now that the dust has settled. There is an absolute connection between Digipen Singapore (Nintendo/NST sponsored roots) and Namco-Bandai Singapore. For the most part, Namco-Bandai Singapore has always been a "development cooperation" team to Namco-Bandai Japan. This is how we've seen them credited on Mario Sports Superstars, Ace Combat 7, and Smash Bros. Ultimate. There have been "leaks" of information hinting that Tanabe assembled a design team at EPD to lead the network of developers working on the game. While the ad hoc development team using Nintendo source code has previously worked on games like Smash, Wii Play Motion, StreetPass Games and others, it looks like this project just never reached its summit.

I don't think Retro even had to pitch a game. Nintendo and Tanabe had no other choice from a PR standpoint, than to regain consumer confidence by taking the most safest step to recover.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,500
Spain
This is my guess.


I would have loved them to complete Donkey Kong Trilogy. Tropical Freeze was miles better than 83 metacritic score.


Nope. Only Metroid games were. After that Donkey Kong Country Returns was 87, then Mario Kart 7 86 and Tropical Freeze 83
Tropical Freeze in Switch has an 86.

I guess Funky Kong is worth 0.3
 
Dec 8, 2017
117
This was just such awful news to see yesterday morning. This was my most hugest unbelievably anticipated Switch game and now we have to wait years. Ugh. I'm ecstatic Retro is doing it now but so disappointed in whoever was making this game and failed Nintendo.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,296
I think the original plan was for Metroid Prime 4 to be developed by Tanabe's EPD production team and Next Level Games. Unfortunately, the mishap and public perception of Federation Force, made the idea of the same groups developing Metroid Prime 4 a PR nightmare.

What does Tanabe do? Went to plan C and took the MP3 source code to Japan and worked around an ad-hoc development team which Nintendo has done on several occasions the last few years. Namco-Bandai Singapore has been linked to that ad-hoc team, and I think there are a couple of things people are overlooking and incorrectly extrapolating now that the dust has settled. There is an absolute connection between Digipen Singapore (Nintendo/NST sponsored roots) and Namco-Bandai Singapore. For the most part, Namco-Bandai Singapore has always been a "development cooperation" team to Namco-Bandai Japan. This is how we've seen them credited on Mario Sports Superstars, Ace Combat 7, and Smash Bros. Ultimate. There have been "leaks" of information hinting that Tanabe assembled a design team at EPD to lead the network of developers working on the game. While the ad hoc development team using Nintendo source code has previously worked on games like Smash, Wii Play Motion, StreetPass Games and others, it looks like this project just never reached its summit.

I don't think Retro even had to pitch a game. Nintendo and Tanabe had no other choice from a PR standpoint, than to regain consumer confidence by taking the most safest step to recover.
What would have happened to Luigi 3 if Next Level had developed MP4? Delayed 2-3 years?
 

Oracle

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
1,932
With this news, I can't help but feel bad for the devs. What a huge hit to their self confidence.

Imagine your vision being pitched to nintendo, them buying into it, you then putting in endless hours of excitement and hard work producing something you truly think the community will love.

Then to have it all taken away, tossed in the garbage. Damaging your career, lively hood and self worth when it comes to making games.

I hope they can mentally get over it.
 

Deleted member 30887

User requested account closure.
Banned
Nov 4, 2017
227
I'm laughing right now. Why the fuck did they go with Bamco for a Metroid Prime sequel in the first place? What experience do they have with the puzzle adventure genre? They should have let the Zelda team handle it if Retro had their hands full. Smh...
 

Axe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,753
United Kingdom
So here is some old info I have then I never posted.

Essentially MP4 as a project started at the end of 2016/beginning of 2017. Bandai Namco Singapore worked on the pre-production phase which I believe ended before the trailer at E3 was shown. So that's how early Nintendo decided to announce that the game was in development. Game was based on Unreal 4 and was always going to be a 2019 or 2020 release. Bandai Namco Japan was brought on to work on the game and Nintendo studios were also assisting in various areas. From what I heard, Nintendo wanted to push MP4 to be a flagship title, so increased the budget and scope of the game to try and get it to that AAA level.

Seems things weren't working for this reboot to happen.
So my hunch was pretty much right then, how interesting. I wonder what went wrong? Perhaps we'll never know.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
Every new game Retro has made has had less of a metacritic score than previous entries.

Will Metroid Prime be the one that dips below 80 or the rumored Starfox GP already before that?
Tropical Freeze is one of the best 2D platformers ever, and definitely the one with the highest production values and craziest setpieces. It's a true masterpiece.

But hey, fucking donkey kong...
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,518
I'm laughing right now. Why the fuck did they go with Bamco for a Metroid Prime sequel in the first place? What experience do they have with the puzzle adventure genre? They should have let the Zelda team handle it if Retro had their hands full. Smh...
What do you think the zelda team was working on?
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I'm laughing right now. Why the fuck did they go with Bamco for a Metroid Prime sequel in the first place? What experience do they have with the puzzle adventure genre? They should have let the Zelda team handle it if Retro had their hands full. Smh...

Because they probably saw something. I mean, Nintendo has a history of working with studios that aren't perfect fits with franchises that results in a great game. Like with Ubisoft and Mario. Or Retro Studios with Metroid.
 

ciD_Vain

Member
Nov 28, 2017
815
Los Angeles
With this news, I can't help but feel bad for the devs. What a huge hit to their self confidence.

Imagine your vision being pitched to nintendo, them buying into it, you then putting in endless hours of excitement and hard work producing something you truly think the community will love.

Then to have it all taken away, tossed in the garbage. Damaging your career, lively hood and self worth when it comes to making games.

I hope they can mentally get over it.
I'm sure they'll be fine. This stuff happens, we just never get public apologies like Nintendo has given us. If anything, I'm sure the devs learned from what we're obviously mistakes made during development.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,518
Because they probably saw something. I mean, Nintendo has a history of working with studios that aren't perfect fits with franchises that results in a great game. Like with Ubisoft and Mario. Or Retro Studios with Metroid.
Yea. I think this was a case where there wasn't that much of a choice, and also a misread. Giving namco any kind of a shooter, especially first person already is just off. Metroid prime isn't jist a shooter though and is very specific. Retro doing what they did was already incredible. We haven't seen any other games come out like metroid prime after it...the closest would maybe be bioshock 1/2...but even then not really.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,327
Every new game Retro has made has had less of a metacritic score than previous entries.


Will Metroid Prime be the one that dips below 80 or the rumored Starfox GP already before that?


This is the kind of post I expect from someone who will never actually play videogames

I'm laughing right now. Why the fuck did they go with Bamco for a Metroid Prime sequel in the first place? What experience do they have with the puzzle adventure genre? They should have let the Zelda team handle it if Retro had their hands full. Smh...

The team, if we go by the rumors(and you do, so alas), was with veterans from Lucasarts etc.

Zelda team is doing Zelda.

Now I'm laughing too.