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Apr 21, 2018
6,969
Well reggie infamously said that they didn't get why the game flopped. They were marketing it like crazy. They thought it would be this huge game bringing in like sony fans because of the gameplay and cutscenes.


I don't know if I trust that the PR Reggie spews out is reflective of what internal Nintendo thinks. I mean, Other M has over a 10 point drop in MC score from the Prime Trilogy. It's not like Team Ninja worked on a sequel. Sakamoto went to create Tamodachi Life, then went back and made a classic 2D Metroid.

I mean, Nintendo might make daft decisions, but they aren't so daft as to not understand what makes a good game or a great game.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,244
Midgar, With Love
Hey, my heart goes out to the fans. I'm sure my perspective would be skewed if I'd played these games. (I'm planning to if the trilogy gets released for Switch.)

But from an outside perspective this definitely sounds like the best thing Nintendo could have done under such unfortunate circumstances.
 

Ramirez

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,227
Do you still have that screenshot?

RTn6p7x.jpg


IGN had a secret forum for their Insider program where Matt Cassamassina or whatever posted this and a pic of Retro's car combat game, that 13 year old me immediately posted to GAF on an EZBoard, lol.

People freaked the fuck out and were not impressed at all by that photo, then it later became one of the best games ever, hah. To be fair, Retro was nothing but bad news at the time, so the skepticism was warranted.
 

Deleted member 51789

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 9, 2019
3,705
The reaction to FF was a result of years of nothing and the only notable release in almost a decde being a trainwreck. To bring a spinoff game to the anniversary, after a decade of nothing and bullshit, was bound to have a lot of negative reactions.

This situation is nothing like that, so why would anyone be surprised?
Because it was probably one of the most unnecessarily antagonistic and negative fan reactions to an announcement I've seen in a while (even when contextualising things with not having a Metroid game in a while) and it really soured my view of the Metroid fandom - I thought they'd act like babies again.
 

Mercenary09

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,395
Something people should keep in mind is that while it is Retro who will be making Metroid Prime 4 it isn't going to be but a few if any at all of the same people who worked on the first 3. Most of those people have left since then.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
You're definitely not wrong. 3D metroidvania is definitely different from 2D. If I was to better explain myself, i'd say that it isn't me asking for a shake up just to have a shake. As with your DC example, that's effectively what DC3 was in some ways and that did nothing for anyone.
However, I do think the MP franchise coming back needs to be big. Which I think would take more than just being MP1 but with better graphics on the switch. That's more or less what I'm trying to get at. Sometimes there are changes we don't even know we want. Like as an example, who's to say the whole bounty hunter aspect would even impact the regular Metroidvania style stuff. That's just as an example, i'm not actually particular on what said changes would be.
But it'd be nice to see the series come back in a big way and I think some changes would benefit it. It definitely doesn't need to be anything massive like "Metroid is now a TPS with coop" or anything. But there's definitely room for perhaps something like "You actually upgrade your suit with new powers to unlock new areas, while still having all your original stuff from the get go". Even a small change like I think goes a long way.

Like if they can do something like that. Where despite having a 4 on the name. It's having everyone interested whether they played 1 - 3 or not.
Then I definitely agree it could be a big hit.

Kind of my thinking around it. Like in how the show it off, present it. IT COULD be this game that get's people in who see the first person perspective within the visor and see how you explore and get more powerful. i can see a lot of people getting into it.
 

SkyOdin

Member
Apr 21, 2018
2,680
I imagine that events like this have happened several times before for Nintendo. What is different about this time is that they have publicly announced Metroid Prime 4. I imagine that unannounced titles get scrapped or rebooted fairly often. We probably would have never known about this if Nintendo had not chosen to announce Metroid Prime 4 so early in its development. An early announcement like that is a calculated risk.
 

Xpike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,676
Something people should keep in mind is that while it is Retro who will be making Metroid Prime 4 it isn't going to be but a few if any at all of the same people who worked on the first 3. Most of those people have left since then.
already disproven in this same thread, please stop spreading this myth aroind
 

ChaosXVI

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,842
Likely because in 2016/2017 when MP4 was being considered, Retro was knee deep in development on one, possibly 2 major projects, one of which may have been canned.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,997
And now everyone is wondering just how bad was this thing that they had to scrap it completely. 🤨

It's possible that it wasn't in that bad of shape, and it's more of a contract dispute situation. Like Nintendo wanted changes and other things that would extend development and Bamco said no. Bearing in mind that Nintendo has a penchant for restarting development, flipping the table, etc., with their dev teams where they have full control.
 

Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,703
Given the standards remark, and Nintendo almost assuredly knowing that Metroid is seen as a critical (if not commercial) pillar alongside Mario and Zelda, I wonder if the big changes that BotW and Odyssey had were a factor here.

Like, was the old version of 4 just not enough of a reinvention in their eyes, or was it actually an attempt at a BotW/Odyssey-esque shift that wasn't very good or interesting. I can definitely see them trying to make it more of a "modern" open world with pockets of traditional Metroid labyrinthine design (the equivalents of shrines) and slowly realizing that the whole Metroid feeling is taken away. That would require a massive ground up reboot!
 

Deleted member 2317

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,072
This is fantastic news! Sure, it'll be a delay- but whatever, the rightful studio is in charge!!!

Here's me without a Switch yet, happy to wait for a true Metroid Prime sequel.

tenor.gif
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,501
No prob not, I can't remember the dev size but more then likely they are finishing up their current project and are able to start transitioning team members onto prime 4

They are likely wrapping up starfox around now.

For a very long time now, except in specific cases like that first emergency Wii U January Direct and Metroid Prime 4 itself, Nintendo has regularly announced games well within a year of their release. In many cases, including even the past two 3D Mario games and indeed Retro's last released game, they were announced at E3 and released that same holiday season. Tropical Freeze was finished in time for that holiday but delayed for scheduling strategy purposes. If Retro has a game that they've been working on and that is nearing completion, it can be expected that it will be announced this year and release soon after.

Hoping this is the case and we see what they've been working on soon, otherwise this would be a double whammy in my book.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
I would argue that metroid after snes has never been able to get to it's full potential because if ti being on systems not catered to the style of game it is. prime on cube was a dying system that wasn't promoting a lot of those types of games.

The same is for GBA, there were so many castlevania games that were metroid vania during GBA, DS days. And metroid prime hunters was not what people wanted and had stink on it because of it being not a true prime game and on a hanheld where first person type of games were none existant and the crowd for those types of games were not there.

3DS metroid has shown a uptick, and switch is primed with a much older playerbase who also own PS4/XBOX. So i stand that prime 4 has better chance on switch for a broader audience.
The original Metroid Prime was one of the highest-selling entries in the franchise regardless of platform. This argument also doesn't hold too well given that it never grew beyond that initial success, even on the Wii with its giant install base and Prime 3 being a well-promoted, well-marketed entry.

One key problem for Metroid is that not all Metroid fans are FPS fans. There's a natural Venn diagram between traditional Metroid fans and Prime fans, with only some crossover in the middle. You'll never get the entire fanbase to play both.
 

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,588
I greatly appreciate the transparency and wish we saw more of this from the gaming industry. I'm a little disappointed, but it's way better than being both more disappointed and annoyed if they had silently pushed it back for years.

Hopefully this means Retro is wrapping up another game they will release this year. It's been so long since Tropical Freeze.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,215
Wow. The execs at Bandai Namco must be livid to have this kind of public embarrassment. I'm not sure why Nintendo thought Bamco had the chops to get 'er done in the first place. Sega would've been a much better dev partner for the kind of game Metroid Prime is.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
Same old Nintendo. They just can't keep pace with development. Generation after generation they acknowledge they need to come out with more content at a faster pace because they lack the big third party titles and most buy Nintendo consoles to play Nintendo games. Yet delays keep happening.

It's great they are being transparent on the surface but I can't help wonder if they knew all along they had to tease this game earlier on purpose. The timing is also questionable waiting until after the busy holiday sales to tell everyone it's not going as planned.

In the end the game is likely to be great and starting over will seem like a genius move but these large gaps with big titles seem all too common and I doubt its ever going to change. If Nintendo ever gets back in the hardware race then it's all moot.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
Because it was probably one of the most unnecessarily antagonistic and negative fan reactions to an announcement I've seen in a while (even when contextualising things with not having a Metroid game in a while) and it really soured my view of the Metroid fandom - I thought they'd act like babies again.
Same here. I still don't trust the fandom to act mature. Nintendo has to treat Metroid fans with kid gloves, and it's ridiculous.
 

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
I never really sat well with the original announcement of Namco doing the game. I think Namco is great at doing arcade style games, but anything FPS/giant immersive world has never really been their jam.

When Namco was announced as developer I was like "weird? well you show me....."
 

Deleted member 41931

User requested account closure
Member
Apr 10, 2018
3,744
I'd really hope it's done rather than scrapped. I don't want devs on low morale starting on Metroid...
Hopefully. It's just a little concerning we haven't heard anything offical about their game even nearly a year out from the leak and now they're on a big new project. No reason for doom and gloom yet though, they may just be going for a shorter reveal to release time. Especially after this.
 

EJS

The Fallen - Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
9,176
Why do people automatically assume Retro will make it great? Isn't most of the team that worked on the original Prime trilogy gone? I am not doubting them necessarily but it's not a sure bet that this game will be in better hands? I don't mean to sound negative, honestly.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
User warned: antagonizing another member
Same old Nintendo. They just can't keep pace with development. Generation after generation they acknowledge they need to come out with more content at a faster pace because they lack the big third party titles and most buy Nintendo consoles to play Nintendo games. Yet delays keep happening.

It's great they are being transparent on the surface but I can't help wonder if they knew all along they had to tease this game earlier on purpose. The timing is also questionable waiting until after the busy holiday sales to tell everyone it's not going as planned.

In the end the game is likely to be great and starting over will seem like a genius move but these large gaps with big titles seem all too common and I doubt its ever going to change. If Nintendo ever gets back in the hardware race then it's all moot.
What the fuck is this system wars nonsense?
 

Fanuilos

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,121
Dang, that is pretty unexpected but good on Nintendo for looking at the situation and not giving up on releasing a MP4. I wonder if this situation scares them off from announcing things years in advance for a while.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,735
I think it's gonna be 2022 at latest. Retro were already hiring lore writers and graphics/physics programmers throughout 2018, and likely worked on a prototype/pitch for Prime 4 with a smaller team throughout last year. I'm guessing that team has been chipping away at the title in minimal capacity.

I'm guessing that Star Fox GP or whatever they're making will be a summer title. Once that goes gold, the main team will transition into Prime 4, and they'll work their butts off to at least have a presentable game play teaser for E3 2020.
 

Legacy

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,704
If it means we get a brilliant Metroid game, I'll wait. The announcement sucked but I'd rather wait than get a mediocre Metroid title.
 

Sidewinder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,171
Hot damn, that's quite the bombshell ;(
No price cut in sight, no Metroid for a very long time and no Wave Race anywhere, Nintendo doesn't want me to buy a Switch.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
The original Metroid Prime was one of the highest-selling entries in the franchise regardless of platform. This argument also doesn't hold too well given that it never grew beyond that initial success, even on the Wii with its giant install base and Prime 3 being a well-promoted, well-marketed entry.

One key problem for Metroid is that not all Metroid fans are FPS fans. There's a natural Venn diagram between traditional Metroid fans and Prime fans, with only some crossover in the middle. You'll never get the entire fanbase to play both.

You are not understanding what i said to someone else. A lot of core.hardcore games didn't do well on Wii because it was marketed to masses as something else. So games like Mad world, prime 3, other m, didn't do super well. But others like sports, fit, mario kart were huge because of the broad spectrum.

Switch isn't getting grandma's and grandpa's buying it it's getting people like us, family's, people who already own consoles. Which is why it's selling as well as wii but all the games on it are core games. Not fit, wii sports type of games. like zelda, kart, splatoon, pokemon, smash, mario party even smaller obscure games like toad tracker and even kirby are selling better than they ever did on wii, gamecube.

Metroid no punn intended is primed to do well or at least better than original did on cube because right now the market is ravenous for anything Nintendo.
 

Zan

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,416
So who developed MP4 originally? And what has Retro been doing all this time?
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,997
My question is are any of the things they were working on coming to fruition or are they not and they're only on Metroid Prime 4 now, I don't have enough knowledge of Retro and how big they are to know if they can work on 2 projects at once. I guess if the other one is wrapping up then they could do this as well.

Based on what little we know, it appears that they were working on something after Tropical Freeze that got canned, and then they moved on to Star Fox, all whilst also helping in some other Nintendo stuff and then remastering TF for Switch. Ideally Star Fox is close to completion, and MP4 will get started with a small team to get it off the ground in the meantime, which would be pretty normal for a dev that mostly works on 1 game at a time. Conversely Star Fox may not be that far along, and therefore is shelved/canned in favor of this.