The only thing "unique" about the Famicom/NES was how Hiroshi Yamauchi cheaped-out on every single component in it. Same with the GameBoy. Everything after that was just an evolution of the concept loosely following industry trends.
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Nintendo isn't "unique" anymore
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Op obviously has a bias against " console feeling " games, but that's what their fans want now. The ds/gba having quirky experimental games is because they were less risky because of lower costs, so now with only one device they're selling why waste resources when that talent can help on more ambitious games?
That doesn't even begin to get into how many games for 3ds were similar to Wii U ones. What is more valuable objectively about having handheld style games?
That doesn't even begin to get into how many games for 3ds were similar to Wii U ones. What is more valuable objectively about having handheld style games?
Kinda weird to see that right after experimental Mario Tennis, new WarioWare, super unique Octo Expansion, Sushi Striker, Detective Pikachu and Dead Heat Breakers.
Style Savvy had a release last year. Rhythm Heaven, three years ago. The rest is kinda dead, yeah, but on the other hand, since Nintendogs and Custom Robo Arena they tried their hand on stuff like Mario Maker, Captain Toad, Project STEAM, Pokken, NES Remix, Miitopia, Miiverse, Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Pocket Card Jockey, Splatoon, Stretchmo/Pushmo, ARMS, Denpa Men, Street Pass everything, Fatal Frame, Fossil Fighters, Art Academy, Wonderful 101... Yeah, not a lot of these are from the last 2 years, but they didn't release that many small projects every year before too.
But I think I can see your point, and it boils down more to the market not having a small platform to experiment on that the handhelds were and less to Nintendo being less unique. Nintendo certainly changed, but they had to.
You can't just dismiss Labo just because its sales are bad. That's not what determines if they're trying new things. They're clearly trying. Also, they've begun introducing it into schools and it's especially weird to dismiss it in combination with dismissing the Switch hardware as anything all that new when the IR camera makes absolutely no sense without it.
They also released a new Style Savvy within the last year, so not sure why that doesn't count. And in addition to the examples others listed, they've continued pushing the Dillon series, made Snipperclips and had that bizarre download only multiplayer game last summer that absolutely nobody remembers. They're also releasing a new mech game and are continuing to push motion controls with Mario Tennis, Mario Party and even Pokémon - despite both Microsoft and Sony moving away from that.
You seem to want them to not only make new IP to appeal to more consumers, but for all of them to be successful or they don't count. I swear i remember that Vitei interview when it came out and thought this forum mocked that quote.
They also released a new Style Savvy within the last year, so not sure why that doesn't count. And in addition to the examples others listed, they've continued pushing the Dillon series, made Snipperclips and had that bizarre download only multiplayer game last summer that absolutely nobody remembers. They're also releasing a new mech game and are continuing to push motion controls with Mario Tennis, Mario Party and even Pokémon - despite both Microsoft and Sony moving away from that.
You seem to want them to not only make new IP to appeal to more consumers, but for all of them to be successful or they don't count. I swear i remember that Vitei interview when it came out and thought this forum mocked that quote.
Yesterday was a Western-centric event and you don't have the sames tastes as the audience that waches the show at all :p
Just wait a month for the next Direct and you'll see more JP and Nintendo-like games.
I'm not implying that's all you said, I'm questioning how you think it relates to everything else you said.
And put a plant in their multi-million crossover game.
You think those two companies would even dare make a game where story takes a backseat to completely freeform exploration?
"Feel alienated from smash?" The game that has 1200 references to characters from their history?
Botw and let's go, two extremely well received games? This is on you man.
It also cites P5A. It's just promoting both the newest P5 products.
I'd say selling a handheld hybrid by way of consolidating their failing home console hardware business put Nintendo in a pretty unique position.
To be fair though - the majority of Nintendo's mindshare has been built via their substantial success selling handhelds, so they're the only company who could've and did get away with it.
To be fair though - the majority of Nintendo's mindshare has been built via their substantial success selling handhelds, so they're the only company who could've and did get away with it.
I think nintendo going out into the world working with more developers is interesting and in the end overall better for nintendo as a company. Joker doesn't exceite me for personal reasons ( I have issues with persona 5 and think its the start of a series decline that's headed strait for an anime dumpster ) , but I think that's pretty neat. I'm not getting the game yet because.. I got no one I wanted, but there are some 3rd parties that if they got in I would get the game. And I think nitendo's willingness to team up in this sort of thing speaks to how they have grown as a companies and some companies ( caugh caught, Sonic team and Square enix ) could learn a thing or too about taking their series a bit less seriously. Or at least understand what's beneficial and what's not
OP
OP
That's fine then. I didn't say they're wrong, I just said they changed focus.
I think they used to focus more in having more of their franchises represented because they saw it more as part of Smash's identity and Smash always looked to me like a kind of an example about what Nintendo is. We didn't have an obscure Nintendo character in the roster this time, for example.
Grabbed a switch for MK8D, it's still unique and amazing. Gameplay is great, looks decent on a 4K screen if you move back a little.
Got some other shit like zelda, splatoon and mario.
Best secondary console? Nah that was DC next to PS2 but it's fun!
Got some other shit like zelda, splatoon and mario.
Best secondary console? Nah that was DC next to PS2 but it's fun!
I didn't agree with you in the other topic and I don't really agree with you here either
Referencing the topic from last night, throwing Tsubasa or a similar #FE character into Smash wouldn't make it any more of a celebration of Nintendo characters than Joker is. It was an original one-off game developed by Atlus with supervision by Nintendo that didn't sell very well vs. a character from the same developer with a bigger following and a game on 3DS that already looks to be more successful than #FE, not to mention the potential implications of a Switch port of Persona 5.
That said, those DS era games weren't really trend setters either. Games like Nintendogs pulled heavy inspiration from existing IP like P.F. Magic's Petz and the Tamagotchi craze, and they led to resounding middling results.
Nintendo just released a Zelda game that puts its own spin on the open world genre, a Mario game where you throw a hat with motion controls to brainwash giant realistic looking dinosaurs, and a Pokemon game that refreshes the entire gameplay formula, all on a system that serves as both a handheld and a console at the same time. Not to mention they found a way to sell cardboard and make a cute game out of it. If anything, they're as quirky as they've ever been, and more willing to spend some money on developing bigger/more elaborate games. The Smash Bros roster has expanded to be a celebration of video games in general instead of just Nintendo's most popular IP, and it's been heading that way since Brawl on the Wii.
I sincerely hope Nintendo stays the course, because they've been doing a fantastic job lately barring a few stumbles with their online service. I'm more of a fan of their games now than I ever was back when the Wii and DS were king. Just my two cents.
Referencing the topic from last night, throwing Tsubasa or a similar #FE character into Smash wouldn't make it any more of a celebration of Nintendo characters than Joker is. It was an original one-off game developed by Atlus with supervision by Nintendo that didn't sell very well vs. a character from the same developer with a bigger following and a game on 3DS that already looks to be more successful than #FE, not to mention the potential implications of a Switch port of Persona 5.
That said, those DS era games weren't really trend setters either. Games like Nintendogs pulled heavy inspiration from existing IP like P.F. Magic's Petz and the Tamagotchi craze, and they led to resounding middling results.
Nintendo just released a Zelda game that puts its own spin on the open world genre, a Mario game where you throw a hat with motion controls to brainwash giant realistic looking dinosaurs, and a Pokemon game that refreshes the entire gameplay formula, all on a system that serves as both a handheld and a console at the same time. Not to mention they found a way to sell cardboard and make a cute game out of it. If anything, they're as quirky as they've ever been, and more willing to spend some money on developing bigger/more elaborate games. The Smash Bros roster has expanded to be a celebration of video games in general instead of just Nintendo's most popular IP, and it's been heading that way since Brawl on the Wii.
I sincerely hope Nintendo stays the course, because they've been doing a fantastic job lately barring a few stumbles with their online service. I'm more of a fan of their games now than I ever was back when the Wii and DS were king. Just my two cents.
What has Nintendo ever announced at previous TGAs? Honest question since I don't bother with TGA at all.
The latest landmark that Persona 5 was announced to have hit was just 2.2 millions. In spite of that being the best selling Persona game, it's really not some huge mega seller. If anything, they're courting Atlus' audience while also making a show of good will to Atlus themselves. It's not sidelining ARMS or Xenoblade because they aren't big enough, other Persona 5 also wouldn't really be big enough either.
Xenoblade 2 likely wasn't out or on the forefront of their thinking when the roster was finalized. Same goes with ARMS. Being new doesn't mean it's going to magically get in to the roster, especially when ARMS was an unknown quantity and Xenoblade had a representative in the vein of Shulk. If the Xenoblade series had the sales potential of Fire Emblem, maybe Rex or Myhtra would have been on the roster.
The problem many of us have with your OP, thesis, whatever, is that it picks and choose what fits under your umbrella of unique, not what actually is unique. The Switch is unique. ARMS is unique. BOTW, while being an open world game, is unique in it's presentation and how it's basically a playground to mess around with the game physics. Labo, regardless of if it bombed or not, is unique. Sushi Striker is unique, and just because it's a port doesn't make it less so. And frankly, if those two did bomb, thats more on...The audience whom you a part of that didnt buy them. You know what else is unique? Joker being in Smash, as is Simon/Richter and whatever 3rd party character Nintendo decides to allow into the roster. In regards to Style Savvy, they just had a new game release not terribly long ago? It not being marketed well doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Nintendo hasn't been marketing their 3DS games very much as it is because they've been focusing on, you know, the hot new console that they've put out.
I don't want to be that dismissive because clearly you feel strongly about this, but come on dude. Get a grip.
I don't get your point. Did they or did they not make something unique with Labo? The venture's commercial failure is irrelevant to your assertion that Nintendo is no longer unique. Also, they released three kits. It's a much bigger project than Brain Age, Nintendogs, Style Savvy and Rhythm Heaven. 1-2-Switch and ARMS are also pretty damn unique.
But if you're arguing that they were even more unique back during the DS and Wii days, yes, but despite those systems' commercial success, their uniqueness came at the cost of some third-party support. Nintendo is trying to regain third parties' trust after alienating them for 20 years. Nintendo being a little more traditional is necessary for that to happen. Cheaper, more unique projects will probably come further down the line once Switch is seen as a viable platform for third parties and they don't need to appeal to core gamers as much. But they're definitely still unique.
All those more niche franchises you are talking about are referenced in smash, world of light is great and totally shows why Nintendo is unique and continues to be.
Relative to Microsoft and Sony, it's unique. Porting is easy, and that's a good thing. But Sony and Microsoft would probably struggle to switch to ARM now, which means Nintendo kinda owns this portable hybrid space due to the power draw of typical x86 designs.
For sure. But Switch is its home console, too.
Piranha Plant is a pretty damn obscure choice for a character in Smash.
This is a very pessimistic reactionary response to a DLC character added for a crossover fighting game.
Like I said. I can't imagine anyone else making Breath of the Wild.
I don't know: in under 2 years we got 1,2 Switch, ARMS, 3 LABO sets, Sushi Strikers, 2 Xenoblade games, Splatoon 2 + Octo Expansion, Mario, Pokemon and Zelda games that are quite different from their predecessors (especially Zelda), interesting and unique collaborations with Ubisoft in the form of Starfox/Starlink and Mario+Rabbids and just yesterday an exclusive Marvel game announced.
Seems pretty diverse to me.
Am I missing anything?
Edit: Gamefreak's TOWN and Daemon X Machina should maybe also count..
Seems pretty diverse to me.
Am I missing anything?
Edit: Gamefreak's TOWN and Daemon X Machina should maybe also count..
As far as hardware is concerned, I say good riddance. Of the three console you listed the DS is the only one that I like on the level of it's predecessors, but for me both the Wii and Wii U felt like a step down. Software wise I kinda get what you're saying. The recent Zelda focus on an open world over well designed dungeons was a bummer, and I also don't really like the "out there" Smash choices, but it's not that big of a deal, at least the games are still good.
I mean why is unique better? I have every confidence that Joker will be an amazing character and well worth the slot/price, him not being 'unique' is secondary if not irrelevant compared to that in the grand scheme of things.
Thread just seems like you're upset you're not getting what you specifically want, and are extrapolating far too much from that benign point.
Thread just seems like you're upset you're not getting what you specifically want, and are extrapolating far too much from that benign point.
I disagree. People have been critical of Nintendo for decades. Every decision they take is seen as bad. Yet they are still here so they must be doing something right. I haven't played any games that play like BOTW or Odyssey.
Other than Android/iPhone, Nintendo probably owns it regardless simply because the handheld space is too low-power to play the games Sony and MS produce. AMD's Ryzen V1000 line is lower power enough to put x86 in a Switch-like form factor, but I doubt we'll see Playstation or Xbox put it to use.
More likely, something like PS Now will run AAA console games on 5G phones.
This sort of selective arguing about games that don't count, for some reason, because they didn't sell enough, is the exact same nonsense that is used to argue against these kinds of games and in favour for more traditional stuff.
OP
OP
Unique is not a good term, but I would say that by unique I mostly mean stuff not made specifically with the home console crowd in mind -- which I think BOTW fully is. To be fair, Zelda was always more like that, but I feel like it's fair to say BOTW is a move to make Zelda more suitable to fans of modern open world conventions.
About Style Savvy, the game actually came out like a year before in Japan. The localization took way too long and wasn't marketed at all. I'm super salty about it since then. lol
I don't know why people are saying I did this. I said they're unique, just that they're not many and that the console/company branding changed so much to a more oriented gamer focus that they are disliked and perform bad.
The Nintendo of "the past" chose Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta and Corrin as DLC newcomers for Smash Wii U. I fail to see much difference with Joker, and the only game they could promote right now with his inclusion is Persona Q2 for 3DS.
In any case, the current Nintendo also released Sushi Striker this year, named their controllers the "joycon" and still has 2D platformers as a very big part of their lineup so I strongly disagree with the idea that they aren't unique anymore.
Zelda changing directions with Breath of the Wild is more of a response to Skyward Sword's bad reception anyway. Let's not forget that the open world idea of Zelda is also heavily inspired on Zelda 1 instead of being a super story based open world game like the ones most other companies make nowadays. And even then, they heavily focused on the physics system to provide unique gameplay.
In any case, the current Nintendo also released Sushi Striker this year, named their controllers the "joycon" and still has 2D platformers as a very big part of their lineup so I strongly disagree with the idea that they aren't unique anymore.
Zelda changing directions with Breath of the Wild is more of a response to Skyward Sword's bad reception anyway. Let's not forget that the open world idea of Zelda is also heavily inspired on Zelda 1 instead of being a super story based open world game like the ones most other companies make nowadays. And even then, they heavily focused on the physics system to provide unique gameplay.
Good. I hadn't bought a single thing from Nintendo since GameCube, because I have zero interest in their weird gimmicks. I picked up a Switch on black friday, because it can be played as a semi normal console. Give me good games that can be played like a standard videogame and I'll be there.
.......did it though? It skipped one console and the handheld that was around at the same time.
Man this might be one of the hotter takes I've seen on this forum. Most of the points in the OP are demonstrably false by any objective measure.
What industry convention did Nintendo inch closer to with the Switch as a console? No other company touches a hybrid or dedicated handheld in today's mobile gaming climate. Smash is still a celebration of Nintendo, with some outside favorites making the roster. They capped off their Smash Direct with a fucking Pirahna Plant lmao, and you're going on about how they're not unique anymore. Pokémon will always pander to the originals, but we don't even know what gen 8 is yet. Mario Odyssey might not feel unique, but there isn't another game close to it that's out there. Labo, ARMS, 1-2 Switch, Mario Party...still pretty unique. And lmao at Breath of the Wild following industry trends. Don't let the fact that it was open world misguide your perception of its place in modern gaming. If anything it's closer to the original LoZ than it is any modern open world title. Other studios will be emulating it for years to come.
Just about the only thing Nintendo does that isn't as "unique" is their handling of patches and DLC, which they've managed to do better than the industry giants. Splatoon, BotW, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and others are getting good post launch support and single player expansions...and even then, dlc that isn't cosmetic or multiplayer is incredibly unique these days. I get where you're coming from, but this is waaaaay off base, like or dislike Nintendo.
What industry convention did Nintendo inch closer to with the Switch as a console? No other company touches a hybrid or dedicated handheld in today's mobile gaming climate. Smash is still a celebration of Nintendo, with some outside favorites making the roster. They capped off their Smash Direct with a fucking Pirahna Plant lmao, and you're going on about how they're not unique anymore. Pokémon will always pander to the originals, but we don't even know what gen 8 is yet. Mario Odyssey might not feel unique, but there isn't another game close to it that's out there. Labo, ARMS, 1-2 Switch, Mario Party...still pretty unique. And lmao at Breath of the Wild following industry trends. Don't let the fact that it was open world misguide your perception of its place in modern gaming. If anything it's closer to the original LoZ than it is any modern open world title. Other studios will be emulating it for years to come.
Just about the only thing Nintendo does that isn't as "unique" is their handling of patches and DLC, which they've managed to do better than the industry giants. Splatoon, BotW, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and others are getting good post launch support and single player expansions...and even then, dlc that isn't cosmetic or multiplayer is incredibly unique these days. I get where you're coming from, but this is waaaaay off base, like or dislike Nintendo.
It takes several years to design a console. So your chipset would not be avaialable for the Switch or anything coming out anytime soon. AMD simply wasnt competitive for Sony or MS to put out a similar product. That may change. But it will beup against whatever is in the Switch2.
I don't think obscure is the right word here since I think more people now who Piranha Plant is over 90% of the Smash cast.
OP
OP
C'mom, you're aware I've been pessimistic all this year. lol It's just not over one character. You can consider it silly, but it's a recurring thing I've been saying for some time already (the handheld software part especially).
This might be the worst timed thread ever. Seems like more of a reaction to Smash ("OMG playing Smash is cool now")...if anything, the Switch, and games like ARMS, Splatoon, Labo, BOTW, Odyssey...they are finding the perfect balance between being unique while still understanding what the average gamer wants.
Nintendo is still unique, both as a Software and as a Hardware creator.
The Switch is not just some static box with PC components stuffed in it like the PS4 and the Xbox One - the entire premise for the Switch is unique and no other console maker would go that crazy when designing their consoles.
I don't see any big studio turning random concepts like Splatoon and ARMS into full games and selling them. Nintendo operates as it always has - it tests one or two gameplay mechanics, see if there's fun in them, expands them, then turns them into entire game series.
I really don't understand where you're coming from.
The Switch is not just some static box with PC components stuffed in it like the PS4 and the Xbox One - the entire premise for the Switch is unique and no other console maker would go that crazy when designing their consoles.
I don't see any big studio turning random concepts like Splatoon and ARMS into full games and selling them. Nintendo operates as it always has - it tests one or two gameplay mechanics, see if there's fun in them, expands them, then turns them into entire game series.
I really don't understand where you're coming from.
Same people that got mad over a "stellar" character like Waluigi not getting in the game.
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