Nintendo censors "human rights" and "freedom" in Chinese localization of Paper Mario: The Origami King (UP: Game was not censored. See threadmarks)

[Deleted member 10737]

Yes, I am a native speaker, though I emigrated from China as a teenager, so I am not up on contemporary slang. If you want a more natural sounding English translation, I would translate it as:

"Toads need to be clean!​

Toads need peace and quiet!"​

需要 does not mean anything substantially different from "need" in this context. Both imply that what is needed is a necessity, and both can be used in the context of a protest demand or in less urgent situations. Chinese people are substantially less likely to use 需要 when it is really something that they want, not need, but that does not make a difference here.

The main part that was lost in translation is the cultural context: We associate cleanliness with economic means, and we associate peace and quiet with good governance. The lack of economic means and good governance has been the cause of rebellion many times in China's past, with the rebels explicitly naming economic calamity and civil disturbance as signs that the current dynasty has lost its right to rule.

I do not consider the Chinese version a sterile demand for better personal grooming and less noise. I consider it a bitter complaint against tyranny and a prelude to rebellion. I expect the CCP to recognize this, if they ever played/watched this portion of the game, because the government officials certainly know more about history than I do.

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Chinese native speaker here, and I think the Chinese translation is very clever in the way that the wording can literally mean two very different things at the same time. 1. It's referring to the idea that toads should have have less crease, I haven't played the game but I assume this is fit given what the game is called.. 2. It can also mean toads society need better governance/management so that to keep every toad 'clean', i.e. less corruption, less abuse, etc..

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thank you for clearing things up.

 

[MegaXZero]

Yes, I am a native speaker, though I emigrated from China as a teenager, so I am not up on contemporary slang. If you want a more natural sounding English translation, I would translate it as:

"Toads need to be clean!​

Toads need peace and quiet!"​

需要 does not mean anything substantially different from "need" in this context. Both imply that what is needed is a necessity, and both can be used in the context of a protest demand or in less urgent situations. Chinese people are substantially less likely to use 需要 when it is really something that they want, not need, but that does not make a difference here.

The main part that was lost in translation is the cultural context: We associate cleanliness with economic means, and we associate peace and quiet with good governance. The lack of economic means and good governance has been the cause of rebellion many times in China's past, with the rebels explicitly naming economic calamity and civil disturbance as signs that the current dynasty has lost its right to rule.

I do not consider the Chinese version a sterile demand for better personal grooming and less noise. I consider it a bitter complaint against tyranny and a prelude to rebellion. I expect the CCP to recognize this, if they ever played/watched this portion of the game, because the government officials certainly know more about history than I do.

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Interesting. Makes sense and in line with how localization works.

The English version changes "Toads want human rights" to "Toads have rights", and the Chinese version changes it to "Toads want a plain outlook".

Huge difference, wouldn't you say?

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You could read the threadmark.

 

[RealTravisty]

Well, this topic was quite a ride and a jump in logic. People never learn, huh?

 

[Skittzo]

Well, this topic was quite a ride and a jump in logic. People never learn, huh?

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If I had a nickel for every overreaction I've seen based on bad translations or people just not understanding a particular language I'd be a rich fella.

 

[Master Chuuster]

You could read the threadmark.

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Just did, edited my post.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

If I had a nickel for every overreaction I've seen based on bad translations or people just not understanding a particular language I'd be a rich fella.

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Hell, even people who don't understand that translation isn't as simple as flipping through a dictionary for each word.

 

[Pet]

It's painfully obvious who's posting now without having read the thread and who has. Not that I'm saying that post was the final word on the matter, but it provided a ton of context that so many people are going to miss just to post an "oof" or a "yikes" without even paying attention to what has been said.

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But China is bad, so we should pretend like the only bias that doesn't exist is anti-China bias, and there's NO WAY there could be any sort of anti-mainland-China propaganda.

 

[Deleted member 82]

I've threadmarked the explanation and updated the title as best I could.

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Thank you. To be perfectly honest - and maybe it's just me -, the updated thread title seems a bit vague. In fact, I read it as a confirmation (even though your intent was obviously the opposite). As in: "yes, the translation does censor those words". Afraid I don't have a better alternative atm though.

 

[twofive]

IMO the hot takes is not completely off base, It would not be news worthy if this was the simplified Chinese version only, but unfortunately Nintendo uses basically the same script for both simplified and traditional Chinese version as oppose to like Bandai Namco. Some of the puns and cultural context does not translate as well from China to HK or Taiwan.

 

[Dice]

If I had a nickel for every overreaction I've seen based on bad translations or people just not understanding a particular language I'd be a rich fella.

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To be fair, Nintendo nor matters involving Chinese governance deserve the benefit of the doubt on certain "charged" matters. Many companies have caved to Chinese requests/edits in the past.

IMO the hot takes is not completely off base, It would not be news worthy if this was the simplified Chinese version only, but unfortunately Nintendo uses basically the same script for both simplified and traditional Chinese version as oppose to like Bandai Namco. Some of the puns and cultural context does not translate as well from China to HK or Taiwan.

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Which is good because that is usually the job of localizations.

 

[lemonade]

Nothing says xenophobia like misinterpreting the localization of a language that you don't understand.

like others pointed out, this is the global version of the game in traditional Chinese localization. Has nothing to do with Tencent or mainland China.

 

[Deleted member 11370]

But China is bad, so we should pretend like the only bias that doesn't exist is anti-China bias, and there's NO WAY there could be any sort of anti-mainland-China propaganda.

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I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that for some users, it's far more important to rush to post a joke or meme than to actually read the thread they are posting in. We're still getting that even after the update and threadmark...

 

[Skittzo]

To be fair, Nintendo nor matters involving Chinese governance deserve the benefit of the doubt. Many companies have caved to Chinese requests/edits in the past.

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Sure, and it's definitely not wrong to blast them for that and want better. Just in instances where outrage is based on a line in a language many of us do not speak you see people time and time again forgoing rational thought and immediately assuming the worst, instead of waiting for a native speaker to clarify.

 

[Dice]

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that for some users, it's far more important to rush to post a joke or meme than to actually read the thread they are posting in. We're still getting that even after the update and threadmark...

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This is true too. I usually try to wait out (sorry) 'outrage topics' (and again, sorry) until a little more light can get shined on it. Often, though not always, there ARE explanations.

Sure, and it's definitely not wrong to blast them for that and want better. Just in instances where outrage is based on a line in a language many of us do not speak you see people time and time again forgoing rational thought and immediately assuming the worst, instead of waiting for a native speaker to clarify.

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Yeah

 

[HaremKing]

With something like this, I gotta think something like Detroit: Become Human never released in China then, right?

 

[Duane]

I'm glad there are three pages of people posting "oof" and yikes". Interesting thread though, once the actual discussion started.

 

[Deleted member 10737]

like others pointed out, this is the global version of the game in traditional Chinese localization. Has nothing to do with Tencent or mainland China.

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i said that over like 6 posts but everyone ignored me :(

 

[boris_feinbrand]

When you care more about $$$

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When you care more about the hot take.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

No one knee-jerking in the first pages will correct or care about the update.

 

[twofive]

You're right.

Also this is the global version of the game. The same version you buy in the US basically.

The game does not have an official release in Mainland China, it has not gone through the approval process there and no changes have been mandated by the Chinese government ore regulators. So I wouldn't read into this too much with the most generous interpretation being the one above and the least generous interpretation being that they could have changed it in advance of a Mainland China release.

But ultimately people are jumping to conclusions overall.

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While many of Nintendo's game don't have a China release, all of Nintendo's games with Chinese localizations includes simplified Chinese. My take is a potential mainland China release is probably always taken into consideration during localization.

 

[Hailinel]

Yes, I am a native speaker, though I emigrated from China as a teenager, so I am not up on contemporary slang. If you want a more natural sounding English translation, I would translate it as:

"Toads need to be clean!​

Toads need peace and quiet!"​

需要 does not mean anything substantially different from "need" in this context. Both imply that what is needed is a necessity, and both can be used in the context of a protest demand or in less urgent situations. Chinese people are substantially less likely to use 需要 when it is really something that they want, not need, but that does not make a difference here.

The main part that was lost in translation is the cultural context: We associate cleanliness with economic means, and we associate peace and quiet with good governance. The lack of economic means and good governance has been the cause of rebellion many times in China's past, with the rebels explicitly naming economic calamity and civil disturbance as signs that the current dynasty has lost its right to rule.

I do not consider the Chinese version a sterile demand for better personal grooming and less noise. I consider it a bitter complaint against tyranny and a prelude to rebellion. I expect the CCP to recognize this, if they ever played/watched this portion of the game, because the government officials certainly know more about history than I do.

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Thank you for clearing this up.

 

[number8888]

Yes, I am a native speaker, though I emigrated from China as a teenager, so I am not up on contemporary slang. If you want a more natural sounding English translation, I would translate it as:

"Toads need to be clean!​

Toads need peace and quiet!"​

需要 does not mean anything substantially different from "need" in this context. Both imply that what is needed is a necessity, and both can be used in the context of a protest demand or in less urgent situations. Chinese people are substantially less likely to use 需要 when it is really something that they want, not need, but that does not make a difference here.

The main part that was lost in translation is the cultural context: We associate cleanliness with economic means, and we associate peace and quiet with good governance. The lack of economic means and good governance has been the cause of rebellion many times in China's past, with the rebels explicitly naming economic calamity and civil disturbance as signs that the current dynasty has lost its right to rule.

I do not consider the Chinese version a sterile demand for better personal grooming and less noise. I consider it a bitter complaint against tyranny and a prelude to rebellion. I expect the CCP to recognize this, if they ever played/watched this portion of the game, because the government officials certainly know more about history than I do.

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This is more or less accurate. It's certainty a statement with a protesting tone.

I think what matters is the context. This is just two lines out of a whole conversation. I would like to look at

Also this localization is not for mainland China or it would have used simplified characters. It's in traditional characters so it's aimed for Taiwan/HK (and other Asian countries). Nevermind.

 

[Deleted member 82]

With something like this, I gotta think something like Detroit: Become Human never released in China then, right?

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Read. The. Thread. No excuse after the mod update.

 

[Zekes]

People love to jerk off their knees huh

 

[twofive]

This is more or less accurate. It's certainty a statement with a protesting tone.

I think what matters is the context. This is just two lines out of a whole conversation. I would like to look at

Also this localization is not for mainland China or it would have used simplified characters. It's in traditional characters so it's aimed for Taiwan/HK (and other Asian countries).

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The simplified Chinese version of this quote is almost identical to the traditional Chinese version.

 

[Deleted member 31333]

Saw this topic on reddit and someone posted this:

Actually, English version has nothing about freedom and does not mention human rights.

Japanese version: "Toad wants human right and freedom."

English version: "Toads have rights! This is Toad abuse!"

Spanish version if you would like to add: "I am deeply traumatized!" (¡Estoy profundamente traumatizado!)

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So this is basically just a localization thing and a non-issue.

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

This thread title feels like parody, and the clarification makes it one.

 

[number8888]

The simplified Chinese version of this quote is almost identical to the traditional Chinese version.

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DIdn't know that. I guess the whole not released in mainland China still stands though.

 

[Zarckoh]

This is why jumping to conclusions with a language you aren't familiar with isn't the wisest idea. English slang must also look highly weird to non english speakers. Hell there was a thread about Chibi Robo using queer and the OP didn't have the knowledge of the original meaning of the word.

 

[SpaceCrystal]

Never mind, I read the threadmark.

 

[HaremKing]

In case, people want to get a look at a discussion of what's being said about this in the language in question, I'll leave this link.

中國的翻譯已經連自由跟人權都不能說了狀況整理：英文版有提到奇諾皮奧權、日文版寫人權跟自由簡中繁中兩個都沒提到，選擇以貼近紙片設定的方式描述詳細請看討論，噗主社畜無法隨時回應還請見諒原圖片是噗主從其他噗轉來的，前後文詳細請看candy9365補充的遊戲設定補充：紙片瑪莉歐的主要角色本體都是紙，本代則是加入摺紙王國設定，所以主要夥伴跟敵人是摺紙跟避捏他，詳細請參考遊戲廣告，這款內容各種玩梗很ㄎ一ㄤ很推薦。想跟任天堂反應的可參考 ಠ_ಠ - 有關於紙片瑪利歐的翻譯問題 先不管是不是河蟹，我主觀認定是

Plurk by ಠ_ಠ - 508 response(s)

www.plurk.com

 

[digi_era]

Thank you for the threadmark, it makes the situation much more clear.

 

[Empyrean Cocytus]

Singling out Nintendo like they are the only and one company known for that, is a bit weird.

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The problem is that Nintendo loves to put forth the impression that they are the "We care about fun and smiles" company. They aren't doing microtransactions. They don't do live services or lootboxes. They make fun games that make people happy, they aren't evil like the OTHER guys.

And yet, they have a lot of the same problems with manufacturing and appealing to horrible regimes and not taking a stand. They position themselves as the good guys, when in reality they're just less evil.

 

[entrydenied]

任天堂被和諧了。

 

[Bulerias]

I don't normally post about internet qualms like these, but this thread is highlighting a culture that's increasingly apparent on this forum and is on the verge of becoming toxic. There are a lot of knee-jerk "Fuck *insert person or entity here*" reactions that don't contribute anything to the actual discussion, and it's getting really tiresome having to read stuff like that. I really enjoy the discussions on this forum, in fact, it's my most visited website and I've been here since day 1 basically, but this kind of thing is honestly getting out of control.

 

[Neoxon]

Yes, I am a native speaker, though I emigrated from China as a teenager, so I am not up on contemporary slang. If you want a more natural sounding English translation, I would translate it as:

"Toads need to be clean!​

Toads need peace and quiet!"​

需要 does not mean anything substantially different from "need" in this context. Both imply that what is needed is a necessity, and both can be used in the context of a protest demand or in less urgent situations. Chinese people are substantially less likely to use 需要 when it is really something that they want, not need, but that does not make a difference here.

The main part that was lost in translation is the cultural context: We associate cleanliness with economic means, and we associate peace and quiet with good governance. The lack of economic means and good governance has been the cause of rebellion many times in China's past, with the rebels explicitly naming economic calamity and civil disturbance as signs that the current dynasty has lost its right to rule.

I do not consider the Chinese version a sterile demand for better personal grooming and less noise. I consider it a bitter complaint against tyranny and a prelude to rebellion. I expect the CCP to recognize this, if they ever played/watched this portion of the game, because the government officials certainly know more about history than I do.

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This is actually really informative. Thank you for posting this.

 

[Schreckweg 5000]

The problem is that Nintendo loves to put forth the impression that they are the "We care about fun and smiles" company. They aren't doing microtransactions. They don't do live services or lootboxes. They make fun games that make people happy, they aren't evil like the OTHER guys.

And yet, they have a lot of the same problems with manufacturing and appealing to horrible regimes and not taking a stand. They position themselves as the good guys, when in reality they're just less evil.

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The excessive hate Nintendo usually gets (gotta exclude sirap on that one) is much less about Nintendo pretending to be the ethically good guys and much more about being behind in the technical arms race, releasing kid friendly products and refusing to change.
And even if we would go down that route, Naughty Dog released yet again a critically acclaimed wokish (for a lack of better word) game and I guarantee you, 90 percent of those who would care about ND employees being crushed by crunch time would be those who hate/dislike Sony.

 

[Dekuman]

Yes, I am a native speaker, though I emigrated from China as a teenager, so I am not up on contemporary slang. If you want a more natural sounding English translation, I would translate it as:

"Toads need to be clean!​

Toads need peace and quiet!"​

需要 does not mean anything substantially different from "need" in this context. Both imply that what is needed is a necessity, and both can be used in the context of a protest demand or in less urgent situations. Chinese people are substantially less likely to use 需要 when it is really something that they want, not need, but that does not make a difference here.

The main part that was lost in translation is the cultural context: We associate cleanliness with economic means, and we associate peace and quiet with good governance. The lack of economic means and good governance has been the cause of rebellion many times in China's past, with the rebels explicitly naming economic calamity and civil disturbance as signs that the current dynasty has lost its right to rule.

I do not consider the Chinese version a sterile demand for better personal grooming and less noise. I consider it a bitter complaint against tyranny and a prelude to rebellion. I expect the CCP to recognize this, if they ever played/watched this portion of the game, because the government officials certainly know more about history than I do.

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Thank you. I was wrong about the censorship.
And yes, it makes sense this would be targeted at the overseas Chinese community, particularly Taiwan. Did not occur to me it's not using simplified Chinese.

 

[Deleted member 2761]

I dunno if it's been explained elsewhere, but it's a pun: 平 is the character for flat (remember the whole origami thing), and at least in Cantonese, the characters 整 and 靜 that 平 is paired with to convey their respective meanings have a "zing" sound (but different tones), i.e. a "pingzing (orderly) outlook and a pingzing (peaceful) life".

 

[Deleted member 21326]

all the page 1 cringe worthy comments. Maybe dont be so quick to jump the gun.

 

[Plankton2]

I want an investor to rail them on the uyghur situation but I doubt anyone will

 

[Eeek]

That thread has screenshots of both the traditional and simplified translations, the first part for the traditional part is:

and then the picture shown in the tweet in the OP.

I can give a rough translation but I'm not a native speaker, its something like: "Let me tell you! It's terrible! A gang of origami guys came ... and folded and crumpled all the Toads beyond recognition! It's like they have a grudge against Toads! This is Toad abuse! Toads need a flat appearance! Toads need a peaceful life!

The simplified one says more or less the same thing as the traditional one but the last 2 lines are a bit different.

"Give back flat appearances to Toads! Give comfortable lives back to Toads!"

Also the "crumpled into a ball part" has an extra line: " 折磨得不成样子" which...is something like "tortured beyond recognition/out of shape"

 

[ActStriker]

Thank you. I was wrong about the censorship.
And yes, it makes sense this would be targeted at the overseas Chinese community, particularly Taiwan. Did not occur to me it's not using simplified Chinese.

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But you can tell it's traditional in the screenshot posted?

 

[Spinluck]

I had a feeling it wasn't censored.

 

[rokero]

I don't normally post about internet qualms like these, but this thread is highlighting a culture that's increasingly apparent on this forum and is on the verge of becoming toxic. There are a lot of knee-jerk "Fuck *insert person or entity here*" reactions that don't contribute anything to the actual discussion, and it's getting really tiresome having to read stuff like that. I really enjoy the discussions on this forum, in fact, it's my most visited website and I've been here since day 1 basically, but this kind of thing is honestly getting out of control.

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Completely agree with you

 

[Dekuman]

But you can tell it's traditional in the screenshot posted?

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Yes. The chinese characters are different between traditional and simplified

In this case the source itself missed this too. Or they simply didn't care

 

[Jaded Alyx]

But ultimately people are jumping to conclusions overall.

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Nah man, that could never happen here.

 

[kyo2004]

Spanish localization doesn't mention anything about abuse or rights.

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The fact they use "Calla y pliegate a nuestros deseos" is a clever way to signal abuse (considering the origami thematics). Not everything has to be explicitly written to understand the meaning/context.

 

[Renna Hazel]

The problem is that Nintendo loves to put forth the impression that they are the "We care about fun and smiles" company. They aren't doing microtransactions. They don't do live services or lootboxes. They make fun games that make people happy, they aren't evil like the OTHER guys.

And yet, they have a lot of the same problems with manufacturing and appealing to horrible regimes and not taking a stand. They position themselves as the good guys, when in reality they're just less evil.

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I don't think Nintendo ever makes it an issue of good vs evil based on the fact that they make fun games. They simply cater to a group that likes those types of games, so that's how they market themselves.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Wasn't animal crossing banned in China? They don't want to poke the bear (pun intended) again. They want sales!