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Nintendo 64 Online App's problems (input lag, controller layout) angering Expansion Pass customers.
- Thread starter HustleBun
- Start date
I'm glad I don't notice the input lag stuff. I was even looking for it and it felt fine. As someone that's only ever played the PAL versions of these games, I'm probably just used to a compromised experience lol. Now, those graphical glitches/missing effects on the other hand, that is dire. Hopefully the emulation improves as the they put out more games, because they better not do my boy drake lake like that.
For what I understand, in order for Rewind to work, the emulator has to be constantly generating and deleting save states. Since this requires a lot of memory usage it's very hard to implement on N64. Most community based N64 emulators don't support it either (and the ones that do apparently crash a lot).
Anyone with better knowledge of the matter feel free to correct me or elaborate on what I said.
Yes this has been a trend for awhile especially when it comes to Nintendo . you've Just described the internet and Twitter.
Yep, internet, twitter and Era just always picking on Nintendo just because. You got us.
I genuinely do wonder what it would it would take for someone always on the defense about Nintendo to finally just admit they screwed up instead of insisting it's everyone else that's the problem.
Keep in mind, you're flat out ignoring posted photos and videos evidence and saying everyone's just complaining despite the thing being right in front of you.
Are people being hyperbolic? Definitely. Do I care about Ocarina of Time's fog? Not really. But would I insist none of the described issues are there? No.
If Paper Mario comes out with input issues, should I just ignore that in the timed attack based game?
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Yup that's pretty much it. Rewinding isn't playing the emulator backwards (that is quite impossible), it's literally just a whole bunch of automatic memory and execution snapshots much like the save states themselves, and you are stepping back through them. You can improve the memory utilisation somewhat by only recording the delta of them (the difference between snapshots), but that requires even more CPU time per frame and the bigger the state you have to record, the longer it takes the CPU to compare the states. This can get very CPU intensive very quickly, an easy thing for high end PCs to brute force, not so much for embedded portable hardware.
Hard to say how much headroom you'd have on the Switch for such a thing, without knowing how much the JIT emulation itself is already costing them.
This also presently seems to be why the N64 online multiplayer doesn't have rollback (which requires doing the exact same thing), unlike the NES and SNES emulators.
Have played online 2-3 hours every night this week online with 1-2 others in different states, mostly Mario Kart and Mario Tennis. A few moments of stutter (the longest lasting up to 2-3 seconds) but otherwise totally fine. I would have to assume some of the online problems are connection-related as all of us have decent broadband connections.
I also played several hours of single-player Mario Tennis, Sin & Punishment and Star Fox 64 on my own, and all play and look great on my 4K tv. I even got my N64 NSO controller today and it works well (but I never noticed how uncomfortable it is to hold the controller, especially now as a grown-ass man).
The major issues I've noticed are on Mario 64. I fell off the bob-omb battlefield mountain two times during my first run because I was not used to the lag and stuttering, especially about completing 120 stars in the 3D All-Stars version earlier this year. Haven't tried Yoshi's Story or OoT yet, so will see how those go.
I also played several hours of single-player Mario Tennis, Sin & Punishment and Star Fox 64 on my own, and all play and look great on my 4K tv. I even got my N64 NSO controller today and it works well (but I never noticed how uncomfortable it is to hold the controller, especially now as a grown-ass man).
The major issues I've noticed are on Mario 64. I fell off the bob-omb battlefield mountain two times during my first run because I was not used to the lag and stuttering, especially about completing 120 stars in the 3D All-Stars version earlier this year. Haven't tried Yoshi's Story or OoT yet, so will see how those go.
That "trend" isn't confined to a while, Nintendo, nor the internet.
I'm on the same boat. I was very excited for N64 Switch Online, and seeing such half-assed effort makes me really pissed.
Nintendo has been constantly half-assing this stuff because internet discourse always reduces to valid criticisms being clouded by a war of hyperbolic statements by trolls and dismissal of any criticisms by fanboys. And people end up buying it anyway, so who ends up being screwed are consumers who expect a minimum of standards from Nintendo's high priced products and services.
My thoughts are:
1. The controller is awesome! I love being able to play these games with the original controller, it makes a HUGE difference.
2. it's a decent start with problems that vary across the titles.
3. the border...WHY. PLEASE, Nintendo, how is this acceptable? give us options
4. following on the WHY?? no ability to customize controls
5. emulator issues per game basis
The state of it is better than I expected given the impressions, but it still needs work. I'd want 3. and 4 prioritized, and then I'd be able to relax a bit, but I want to hear they're working on it/the issues.
3 and 4 are so half-assed it totally pisses me off and makes me worried nothing will be fixed.
1. The controller is awesome! I love being able to play these games with the original controller, it makes a HUGE difference.
2. it's a decent start with problems that vary across the titles.
3. the border...WHY. PLEASE, Nintendo, how is this acceptable? give us options
4. following on the WHY?? no ability to customize controls
5. emulator issues per game basis
The state of it is better than I expected given the impressions, but it still needs work. I'd want 3. and 4 prioritized, and then I'd be able to relax a bit, but I want to hear they're working on it/the issues.
3 and 4 are so half-assed it totally pisses me off and makes me worried nothing will be fixed.
This is a great video. The input lag seems atrocious on this thing. I remember how bad the Wii U version of SM64 was with the lag and I never bought another N64 game on it because of how sluggish it felt to play The Emulator on Switch seems no different.
I can't believe they didn't bother to fix this before release.
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Anyone else got the controller and not able to get it to pair? I've even connected it up via the USB-C cable that it comes with but it just keeps saying "Press L + R on the controller" I do that and nothing happens.
Never mind seems like I needed to update my switch. It worked after I updated the console.
Never mind seems like I needed to update my switch. It worked after I updated the console.
I'm actually super impressed with how modern Winback feels. Rotating the camera left and right is just as smooth as a c-stick in a modern game.
true, but you can't really walk while doing it. Modern games tend to blend left stick/right stick input together.
I must say that I was expecting the worst after some of the early Mario Kart clips and that screenshot of Dark Link's room in OoT but having spent the evening on both games I've not really got any complaints.
Sure there are the odd issues such as slight frame pacing problems at the start of a race on MK or fog rendering in OoT, but to me they aren't game breaking or immersion shattering. Playing Ocarina again with a proper N64 pad after all these years really took away any reservations I had on revisiting the OG after playing the amazing 3DS remake.
I guess what I'm saying is that these issues are so slight to me that they're in no way hampering my experience. However I've yet to try MK online...
Sure there are the odd issues such as slight frame pacing problems at the start of a race on MK or fog rendering in OoT, but to me they aren't game breaking or immersion shattering. Playing Ocarina again with a proper N64 pad after all these years really took away any reservations I had on revisiting the OG after playing the amazing 3DS remake.
I guess what I'm saying is that these issues are so slight to me that they're in no way hampering my experience. However I've yet to try MK online...
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I largely agree, and I've also only played these games in the last decade or so using a Wii U, and coming off of that emulator and that horrid dark filter, I'll take N64 NSO (even with visual oddities like the lack of fog in OOT) over that any day, lol. But like you, I haven't really tried online play, admittedly. I'd say if you're only familiar with Nintendo's own prior N64 emulation efforts on their past consoles, and primarily want to play offline, this is a decent/good way to play N64 games on a modern platform, even with it's shortcomings.
yeah more or less. I kinda wish I cared more about the problems, as a matter of principle, but if I'm honest with myself it's fine. I was playing these games on an 80s PAL tv via RF until like 2001 - I can handle imperfection lol. The 720p rendering is probably worth the trade off overall, though it'd be nice to have a CRT filter to smooth out the sprites and UI elements a bit (nothing they do could fix some of those prerendered backgrounds in OOT though).
Played some Ocarina tonight (undocked with Hori Splitpad) and it's fine. I didn't notice input lag at all, granted I just got to the Deku Tree. Also ran around the courtyard in Mario 64 jumping for a bit, again.. it seemed fine to me.
Truth be told I'm more concerned about the visual issues than I am the input lag. I doubt I would notice some of the stuff being called out in Ocarina (it's been 15+ years since I've played this version, last best it on 3DS).
I hate sounding like an apologist but so far I have no real complaints other than that god damned stupid border that can't be toggled off. Just give me all black borders Nintendo!
Truth be told I'm more concerned about the visual issues than I am the input lag. I doubt I would notice some of the stuff being called out in Ocarina (it's been 15+ years since I've played this version, last best it on 3DS).
I hate sounding like an apologist but so far I have no real complaints other than that god damned stupid border that can't be toggled off. Just give me all black borders Nintendo!
Reminder: any time that something is a seriously lackluster, bad value effort, some people will feel it's completely fine.
these things are not mutually exclusive.
these things are not mutually exclusive.
I didn't, I though NERD would nail the emulation. Then again I had no idea some of issues were also on Wii U, didn't bother with virtual console much.
Kind of shocked Mario 64 had less lag on Wii VC than on original hardware. Are we sure his analysis isn't missing anything?
No, it makes sense, different frame buffer implementation.
Ever see somebody beat Punch-Out!! blindfolded on Wii VC? I have.
Wii plus a CRT was the gateway drug for the CRT retrogaming resurgence.
Good emulation has been achieving lower input delays than OG hardwares for a long time already. Which is why the NSO expansion is infuriating, especially considering NERD got it mostly right with the mini consoles and S/NES emulation on basic NSO. Also don't underestimate controller induced delays.
I honestly wonder if Nintendo will ever get their shit together when it comes to online features and services.
Really hard to say, some people say they need a failure for that, but they already didn't do basically anything during or after the Wii U era, other than adding online to series that previously didn't have.
The Wii U's online was a disaster too, apart from the Miiverse which they ended up axing anyway lol
When people are willing to pay $50 for an online service where the focus seems to be on anything other than providing an actual good online gaming experience why do they need to
This is not to defend Apple so much as to really hammer Nintendo, but Apple is widely acknowledged as a leader in accessibility for both their hardware and software. These N64 games do not even allow for button remapping which is essential and the bare minimum. Nintendo has dropped the ball big time here and I will be surprised (pleasantly) if they respond to feedback.
They sure did
Thanks for thinking that QA has the full power to stop stuff for being released
And we gave it a pass then because it was free. And now some people want us to give them a pass again despite it being paid and having less features.
Got the n64 controller and played the first Zelda dungeon and training on starfox. Pretty fun, but yeah it felt a little different. Purists will hate it but i had a good time. I Hope they update it over time but this all feels super rushed. I haven't tried the sega games yet either
Imagine thinking QA has any power at all in decisions to release or not a product. Once they tell it doesn't crash or has any seriously bad issues like deleting / corrupting files, constantly crashing or stuff like that, it's out of their hands, regardless of the actual product quality.
Edit : And as we've seen with certain releases *cough* Cyberpunk *cough* even then...
Nintendo is probably in last place in terms of accessibility in games.
I'm confused by what I'm seeing. Is the issue that the Switch one is magnifying things too much?Wow...
Looks like there's strange overlapping/multiple copies happening. Appears broken to me.
It's difficult to find people with a fair amount of experience with both, but consensus seems to be that input lag on NSO is even worse than Wii U N64 titles.
At least for handheld(Off-TV) play on both.
Mirrors my performance with OOT so far.
I stopped testing Mario 64 as I don't really care since I own it as part of the 3D collection anyway.
Ah, had to watch it loop a few more times. I see it now. Like an offset duplicate of the effect
And that too lol
I don't think we should have given them a pass even back then considering PS3 online was also free and much better.
Now with busted, subscription-accessed software that was paltry in volume to begin with.