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In retrospective which is the bigger mistake made by Nintendo:

  • Ditching CD-ROM and sticking with cartridges on the N64

    Votes: 897 49.5%
  • Betraying Sony and helping to create their biggest competitor ever: PlayStation

    Votes: 915 50.5%

  • Total voters
    1,812

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
So Nintendo has made a ton of mistakes since they broke into the videogame business in the mid 80s but I keep coming back to what are perhaps their two biggest mistakes they've ever done and whose consequences are still visible to this day.

Those mistakes were both made in the mid 90s when Nintendo was on top of the world and thought nothing could topple them riding on an all time cocky attitude and they were done very closely one following the other.

Of course I'm talking about Nintendo betraying their talks with Sony about them making a CD-ROM peripheral for the SNES by announcing a new deal with Philips that went nowhere and utterly embarrassed Sony and enraged them so much they decided to go on on their own and create Nintendo's biggest rival ever which took them a decade to finally beat once with the Wii only to come crashing down again with the WiiU.

The other being that once they've betrayed Sony and with threats of loosing important third party support (which they didn't take seriously) they decided to stick to the expensive carts that were a nuisance for everyone (including the customer) except themselves instead of going with the now industry standard CD technology. If there ever was a confirmation needed for third parties to finally ditch Nintendo for good in favor of the PlayStation it must've been this. Manufacturing a single N64 cart had to be ordered months in advance and cost more than $10 each while CDs could be ordered in much smaller windows and cost cents.

Many would consider, myself included, they've never fully recovered from those stumbles. But which is the bigger Nintendo blunder for Era? Whichever we choose I think could very much so be considered Nintendo's one true biggest error of all time.
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,592
If they had stuck with their deal with Sony, they'd be out one major competitor but probably massively hit in software in a way they'd likely never recover from.
 

Datajoy

use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,081
Angola / Zaire border region.
The third console curse.

Arrogant Nitnendo with the N64 (and echo cursed on their "second" third console the Wii U).
Arrogant Sony with PS3.
Arrogant MS with Xbox One.

The industry continues to follow in Nintendo's footsteps lol.
 
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AztecComplex

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
Betraying?

Not wanting to giving up rights to their IPs is betraying?
They were in very advanced talks. So much that Sony brought their Play Station (two words) to the CES ready to show it when in that same event Nintendo announced they closed a deal with Philips without ever giving Sony a heads up resulting in a colossal embarrassment for Sony.

Yes, that was a betrayal.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,753
Betraying?

Not wanting to giving up rights to their IPs is betraying?


No. Signing a contract, not respecting it, and then signing another contract with the rival company of your original partner without telling them. THAT's betrayal.


They were in very advanced talks. So much that Sony brought their Play Station (two words) to the CES ready to show it when in that same event Nintendo announced they closed a deal with Philips without ever giving Sony a heads up resulting in a colossal embarrassment for Sony.

Yes, that was a betrayal.

Exactly this.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,216
Singapore
The third console curse.

Arrogant Nitnendo with the N64 (and echo cursed on their "second" third console the Wii U).
Arrogant Sony with PS3.
Arrogant MS with Xbox One.

The industry continues to follow in Nintendo's footsteps lol.
I think the English language has a normal word for this that applies across all business, brands, and organizations. It's not a curse, it's called hubris. Lol.
 

Zippro

Member
May 20, 2018
339
Sony wanted a major cut of Nintendo's IP to the point it wouldn't have been a worthwhile endeavor or Nintendo's part and largely why they called off the deal so it was dirty dealings on both ends, but Nintendo could've gotten away with it had they gone with CD-based hardware, not doing so is what led devs to Sony.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,753
Sony wanted a major cut of Nintendo's IP to the point it wouldn't have been a worthwhile endeavor or Nintendo's part and largely why they called off the deal so it was dirty dealings on both ends, but Nintendo could've gotten away with it had they gone with CD-based hardware, not doing so is what led devs to Sony.

They did not call off the deal, which is the actual issue.
 

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,586
Betraying is the wrong word, but both things were a mistake, but I don't know the full business behind why Nintendo didn't end up working with Sony.
 
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AztecComplex

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
Anyone voting for "betraying Sony" clearly fails to comprehend the situation.
I think choosing cartridges for the N64 is the bigger blunder but I stick by my words: Nintendo betrayed Sony. They didn't respect a deal and went behind their backs to sign a new deal with one of their biggest competitors and never gave them a heads up.

Yes, that's betrayal.
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,592
Sony wanted a major cut of Nintendo's IP to the point it wouldn't have been a worthwhile endeavor or Nintendo's part and largely why they called off the deal so it was dirty dealings on both ends, but Nintendo could've gotten away with it had they gone with CD-based hardware, not doing so is what led devs to Sony.
I mean, kind of not really? The 15 prior years of jerking third parties around combined with a welcoming Sony is what lead devs to Sony. If Nintendo waived all manufacturing fees and lowered their licensing cuts below the industry standard, it wouldn't have mattered if the games were on floppy disks.
 

Asuka3+1

Alt Account
Banned
Feb 6, 2019
491
Option C: non??
Cartridges were (ignoring price) a better option medium than CD.

also unless memory is wrong, what is with this History Revisionism of "Nintendo Betraying Sony" when it was Sony who asked/ demand free use of the IPs for whatever non game related purposed they wanted.
 
Anyone voting for "betraying Sony" clearly fails to comprehend the situation.

Yes, this.

Also, Nintendo shunning third parties and thinking the were on top of the world led to the downfall.

I much prefer cartridge load times and the experience over CDs at that point in time, but they clearly would've had much stronger third party support to stave off Sony and effectively eaten their lunch.
 

massoluk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,591
Thailand
No. Signing a contract, not respecting it, and then signing another contract with the rival company of your original partner without telling them. THAT's betrayal.

Exactly this.

That's a myth, the Philip CDi deal was announced a few days before the tradeshow.
https://kotaku.com/the-weird-history-of-the-super-nes-cd-rom-nintendos-mo-1828860861

And yeah, they screwed up when they drew up the contract, but there's no way Nintendo can go ahead with letting Sony get all the revenue from licensing. That's corporate suicide.

There was a sorta verbal understanding that Sony would just be publishing encyclopedia, music, movies, etc, and totally not video games on their formats, but Nintendo sorta realized later that they botched it by not writing it down
 
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Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
If Nintendo stuck with Sony for the SNES CD, they would be out a major competitor and could basically do whatever they want. Sticking to carts was that scenario, just with Sony.
 

Ariesfirebomb

Member
Jul 3, 2018
541
Minneapolis
Nintendo literally blindsided Sony and made them out to look like Unprofessional newbies after showing Play Station. How is that not some form of betrayal?

With that said though, I think sticking with carts hurt them more, but on the flip side they wouldn't have been in that situation if they hadn't have screwed over their deal with Sony.
 

Jiggy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,289
wherever
I'm like 99% sure the Nintendo PlayStation would have been a massive flop and forever dissuaded Sony from entering the hardware market, which in turn means Microsoft never gets involved either. SEGA still bombs out, basically leaving the entire market to Nintendo. Although it was a far more limited market before Sony dramatically expanded it.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,216
Singapore
Anyone voting for "betraying Sony" clearly fails to comprehend the situation.
And what was the situation? To ensure we are talking about the same situation, this would be the situation where Sony believed in good faith that they were still working with Nintendo on CD based SNES system, and showed it off at CES, only to have Nintendo announce a partnership with Philips instead the next day at the same show, embarrassing and confusing them in the process, right?
 

logash

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,739
Betraying is the wrong word, but both things were a mistake, but I don't know the full business behind why Nintendo didn't end up working with Sony.
How so? They had a contract. What would you call deciding to ignore an agreement and instead of telling them, (like anyone in this day and age would) they work with a competitor and embarrass them by announcing a competing product the same day Sony announced their partnership.
 

Wulfric

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,967
I think ending their business relationship with Sony seemed like a huge mistake at the time, but 20 years down the road, it's turned out quite positively for gaming as whole.

But here we are arguing about syntax.
 
Feb 26, 2018
2,753
User Banned (3 Days): Platform warring
As this thread already showed it was kinda brave for you to think that people on this forum will agree about Nintendo having any mistakes
 
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AztecComplex

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
Option C: non??
Cartridges were (ignoring price) a better option medium than CD.

also unless memory is wrong, what is with this History Revisionism of "Nintendo Betraying Sony"
No they were not. Only for Nintendo they were a better option since they earn a ton of money from manufacturing every single cartridge themselves but for everyone else they sucked.

They cost 10 times more to produce than a CD and they took months, instead of days, to ship. And that was only on the publisher side of things, for us the regular costumer it was impossible to ignore how you'd walk into a store and see all the triple-A N64 games going for $59.99-79.99 and in front have a wall of great PS1 games going from $20 to $40.

In 2000 I bought FFIX for $40 on the day it came out and Majora's Mask for $60 the month it came out. How could Nintendo hope to compete with that kind of pricing?!

Cartridges sucked in comparison.
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
I get the feeling people think the Sony and Nintendo agreement was just something that happened in an instant with no talk whatsoever, but in reality it takes time, lawyers, and contracts to be sign for it to be finalized. Nintendo had their hands on the final contract, and could've denied it m, but they didn't. It was their fault for not fully reading it, and going behind Sony's back in the last second is the definition of betrayal.
 

Ishaan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,702
I feel as though Nintendo's only "real" mistake during that period was letting Yamauchi (who was a little too insular and narrow-minded) and Miyamoto (who is not a business person in the slightest) make business decisions on behalf of the company for as many years as they did.

(Granted, they were among the senior-most members of the organization and very few people really had the clout/willingness to challenge their decisions.)

After Iwata (who had a rather keen business sense and was extremely broad-minded) came aboard, a lot of these issues began to be sorted out.

  • Iwata set up the Software Planning & Development department which works with external studios on creating first-party games
  • Iwata understood the importance of maintaining good relationships with third-party developers, and giving preferential treatment to the most important ones
  • Iwata recognized that Nintendo needed to strike a better balance between doing their own thing and also being inclusive of industry trends
In the years following Iwata taking over Nintendo, we saw the company become much more interesting, well-balanced, and self-aware.
 

evilmonkey

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,481
Canada
The bigger mistake was going with Silicon Graphics tech which proved to a pain to work with, while the competition was using tech most devs were already familiar with.
 

Asuka3+1

Alt Account
Banned
Feb 6, 2019
491
so, what would have been the "not betraying" option? bend over to sony and let em use their IPs?
 
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AztecComplex

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
As this thread already showed it was kinda brave for you to think that people on this forum will agree about Nintendo having any mistakes
Lol, someone already said here the Wii being underpowered was a bigger mistake. Apparently the thing having a 100 million installed base counts for nothing right?
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,429

Norgler

Member
Nov 13, 2017
322
Honestly i dont really see either as downer. Competition is good and I still loved carts compared to cheap cds. Something about them just felt more special..although yeah over priced.
 

logash

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,739
so, what would have been the "not betraying" option? bend over to sony and let em use their IPs?
No, telling them would have. Nothing wrong with finding a better deal. The issue stems from them not telling Sony and literally announcing a competing product the same day Sony announced it's partnership with them. Nintendo wanted to embarrass Sony and they did. If that is not the definition of betrayal then I don't know what is. You can't get anymore dramatic than that in business.
 

Asuka3+1

Alt Account
Banned
Feb 6, 2019
491
No they were not. Only for Nintendo they were a better option since they earn a ton of money from manufacturing every single cartridge themselves but for everyone else they sucked. They cost 10 times more than a CD and took months, instead of days, to produce. And that was only on the publisher side of things, for us the regular costumer it was impossible to ignore how you'd walk into a store and see all the triple-A N64 games going for $59.99-79.99 and in front have a wall of great PS1 games going from $20 to $40.

In 2000 I bought FFIX for $40 on the day it came out and Majora's Mask for $60 the month it came out. How could Nintendo hope to compete with that kind of pricing?!

Cartridges sucked in comparison.
by making a better game?
Cartridge as medium was and still better than CD. sturdier, native saving, better loading times. etc etc etc.
 
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AztecComplex

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
by making a better game?
Cartridge as medium was and still better than CD. sturdier, native saving, better loading times. etc etc etc.
Yeah and that's why the GameCube, the Wii and the WiiU stuck with the winning format the cartridge right?

It was not only cost prohibitive, I forgot to mention that the most an n64 carta could hold was 64 MBs and it cost a ton to make while a single PS1 disc could hold 680MBs and multi disc games were pretty common!

Sure carts had their advantages for sure but when it came down to it the consumer made their decision and that was they preferred a cheaper alternative with tons more storage but slower access times vs a more expensive option with tiny storage but faster load times. The market spoke. Cartridges lost.
 
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MegaMix

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
786
IIRC, by most accounts, Sony was going to get into the gaming industry regardless of a CD attachment deal or not. A standalone Playstation console from Sony would have been inevitable. Also, keep in mind the main reason the Playstation dominated wasn't cartridges, but their forward thinking on treating third parties like partners rather than serfs.