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Ninja Theory vs. Capcom: DmC was shit, and it's not NT's fault

TeddyShardik

TeddyShardik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,648
Germany
So, to be completely honest, I've been shitting on Ninja Theory and its rendition on Devil may Cry for years.

Now, this was based on the original game on PS3 and not thinikng much beyond that. It was NOT Devil May Cry. It was a commendable western take on action games in the style of Japanese studios, but it felt and played way off. Weapon restrictions to specific enemies, no lock on and on top of it all Dante's new design and attitude.

I originally hated the game, and its developer. They ruined one of my favourite series after all!

Except, they didn't really ruin it. It was "Capcpom" themselves who did that.
If we take Ninja Theory as a kind of mercenary developer doing what Capcom wants from them, they relly do come out much more favourably.

What made me hate it the most, to be really honest, was that THIS thing was what Devil May Cry would be from this point on.
I know now, several designers at NT were against just the things I hate about the reboot today, and I totally admit I shit on them for reasons beyond their control.
Especially after the Definitive Edition release.

Now that said: Tameem did everything to make this game fail.
The marketing not only just sucked, it made fans of the franchise despise you. (That is me included)

As the Director of the reboot of a beloved franchise, you just do not tell the fans of that franchis that theiy're stupid, shallow or "too gay", for liking the thing.

HE fucked it all up, along with suits at Capcom.

Now, having DMC5, may personal opinion has very much softened on the game(or the DE to be more precise), since I now know it is not the future of the whole series. I can call it a spinoff, and maybe it could even get a sequel. But it's not the replacement to my DMC that it was poised to be.
 
scare_crow

scare_crow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,309
Honestly, let it go, folks. It was seven years ago. This and the whole "Does the ending of Mass Effect 3 still hurt?" thread is weird to me.
 
Byronic Hero

Byronic Hero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
886
Dude I understand that DmC wasn't the Devil May Cry game you wanted back then, but what's the use in beating a dead horse? The definitive edition fixed a lot of the major issues (barring the asthetic/stylistic decisions) making it not only a great game in general but a really good Devil May cry game.

Why complain about an obviously inferior version of a game anyway? Seems disenginious.
 
Korigama

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,504
The fact that mainline Devil May Cry continued to sell much better all the way up to DMC5, along with the fact that DmC was very much Ninja Theory's vision and the studio is now a Microsoft first-party, are things that have ruled out any possibility of a sequel.

Even as someone who's always had strongly negative feelings about that attempted reboot, I see no point in continuing to dwell on it.
 

Pokémon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,681
Byronic Hero said:
Dude I understand that DmC wasn't the Devil May Cry game you wanted back then, but what's the use in beating a dead horse? The definitive edition fixed a lot of the major issues (barring the asthetic/stylistic decisions) making it not only a great game in general but a really good Devil May cry game.

Why complain about an obviously inferior version of a game anyway? Seems disenginious.
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.
 

Deleted member 21411

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,907
DMC was a bad game with some awesome ideas
DMC definitive edition is a great game that is a nice spin-off now that the real thing is back
 
cheesekao

cheesekao

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,773
Eh, I disagree. DmC was pretty damn enjoyable. Tameem was pretty blegh tough, I'll give you that.
 
OP
OP
TeddyShardik

TeddyShardik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,648
Germany
scare_crow said:
Honestly, let it go, folks. It was seven years ago. This and the whole "Does the ending of Mass Effect 3 still hurt?" thread is weird to me.
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Well, my sticking point is the message of "this is what DMC is now". That alone soured me on the game itself. I bought it three times and liked it as an action game, but if that was what DMC would become then it would suck.
Just the perception of it replacing a beloved series made it worse to me.

And it's probably all od Capcom's fault. I hated on Ninja Theory for years just based on their marketing. Learning that most of the hard decisions were made by Capcom to try to "appeal to a wider market" just made me rethink that and , in the end, feel like a jackass too. :P
 
Fisty

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,221
If we take Ninja Theory as a kind of mercenary developer doing what Capcom wants from them, they relly do come out much more favourably.
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Uh, why would we have this take? Do you have any reason, beyond pure speculation, to state this?
 
Chief Malik

Chief Malik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,737
Land of the free, Home of the slave
DmC played and capcom literally had to look over the work and teach them how to make a decent action game, both og and re release. Gameplay was the worst part about DmC, still is with the lackluster bosses and being ultra easy and hot having as many tools to play with.
 
DrArchon

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
NT would've been viewed a lot more favorably during this whole process if they didn't come off like assholes in marketing.
 
OP
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TeddyShardik

TeddyShardik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,648
Germany
Byronic Hero said:
Dude I understand that DmC wasn't the Devil May Cry game you wanted back then, but what's the use in beating a dead horse? The definitive edition fixed a lot of the major issues (barring the asthetic/stylistic decisions) making it not only a great game in general but a really good Devil May cry game.

Why complain about an obviously inferior version of a game anyway? Seems disenginious.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm not really complaining.
I'm just realizing that the "blame", or much of it, is not to be laid on the Dev team at Ninja Theory. They were just doing what they were asked to do. Capcom fucked it up.

This thread is basically just me admitting to be a jackass, shitting on NT all this time. >.<
 
ezekial45

ezekial45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,751
TeddyShardik said:
So, to be completely honest, I've been shitting on Ninja Theory and its rendition on Devil may Cry for years.

Now, this was based on the original game on PS3 and not thinikng much beyond that. It was NOT Devil May Cry. It was a commendable western take on action games in the style of Japanese studios, but it felt and played way off. Weapon restrictions to specific enemies, no lock on and on top of it all Dante's new design and attitude.

I originally hated the game, and its developer. They ruined one of my favourite series after all!

Except, they didn't really ruin it. It was "Capcpom" themselves who did that.
If we take Ninja Theory as a kind of mercenary developer doing what Capcom wants from them, they relly do come out much more favourably.

What made me hate it the most, to be really honest, was that THIS thing was what Devil May Cry would be from this point on.
I know now, several designers at NT were against just the things I hate about the reboot today, and I totally admit I shit on them for reasons beyond their control.
Especially after the Definitive Edition release.

Now that said: Tameem did everything to make this game fail.
The marketing not only just sucked, it made fans of the franchise despise you. (That is me included)

As the Director of the reboot of a beloved franchise, you just do not tell the fans of that franchis that theiy're stupid, shallow or "too gay", for liking the thing.

HE fucked it all up, along with suits at Capcom.

Now, having DMC5, may personal opinion has very much softened on the game(or the DE to be more precise), since I now know it is not the future of the whole series. I can call it a spinoff, and maybe it could even get a sequel. But it's not the replacement to my DMC that it was poised to be.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I feel like you're regurgitating stuff you saw from the Matt Muscles video about the game, which is mostly made up of cobbled-together factoids and fanboy conjecture. Just let it go. DmC was a fine game, it's not getting a sequel (which it almost did), and the DMC series is back on track.
 
OneBadMutha

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
DmC is the game that got me into the DMC franchise. DMC5 is one of my top 10 games of the gen but takes nothing away from the different but great in its own way DmC. Some aspects of DmC I actually preferred. Including but not limited to tone and level design.
 
antitrop

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,595
It was a good game that's still in the bottom tier of DMCs, but I can't be too mad at it, because they really course-corrected a lot from that disastrous initial reveal trailer. It could have been and was almost going to be so much worse.

 
Plum

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,296
I don't think it was Capcom that made these:

dims
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0CMlpI9.jpg
3pRkiqa.jpg
 
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TeddyShardik

TeddyShardik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,648
Germany
CloseTalker said:
I mean this in the nicest possible way; what's your point?
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I guess I didn't really express it in the clearest way. >.<

All I really wanted to say is that all this time I was hating on Ninja Theory I was being an ass, since they just followed Capcom's bad directions. Maybe not in the character designs but definitely in the limiting gameplay decisions.
 
Jimmy Joe

Jimmy Joe

Member
Aug 8, 2019
2,200


Matt McMuscles did a very interesting video about the production of DmC and the reasons that it turned out the way it did.

There's a lot of interesting design and corporate stories in this video that I didn't know before I watched it. I'd give it a look, whether you like the game or not, just because the process that went into making it is fascinating.

I will warn you that Matt's not the biggest DmC fan, but the video really is excellent.
 
Fisty

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,221
TeddyShardik said:
I guess I didn't really express it in the clearest way. >.<

All I really wanted to say is that all this time I was hating on Ninja Theory I was being an ass, since they just followed Capcom's bad directions. Maybe not in the character designs but definitely in the limiting gameplay decisions.
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Again, do you have any source or statements to back up why it was Capcom's fault? The gameplay/combat was what was most heavily derided by the fans of the series, and you think that's the fault of the creators of the previous games and not the creators of Hellblade and Enslaved?
 
Kuro

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,651
Then how do you explain Enslaved's bad combat. Heavenly Sword wasn't great either. Enslaved was decent outside of the combat though but I feel like the only truly great Ninja Theory game is Hellblade.

DmC is hot garbage, took Capcom to rerelease it with fixes from Japan and 60fps to patch things up to make it an okay not devil may cry game.
 
TubaZef

TubaZef

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,565
Brazil
Well, yes, Capcom was the one that approved everything. There's a GDC talk with the art director of the game talking about their process and he talks about how at first, the game was pretty much following the previous games, with Dante's design being similar to the original one. When they showed it to CAPCOM, they were told to throw it all away and do their own thing from scratch, with a more western style.

Plum said:
I don't think it was Capcom that made these:

dims
hqdefault.jpg

0CMlpI9.jpg
3pRkiqa.jpg
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Click to shrink...

And I believe those are from that talk.

But anyway, that was good from Capcom cause the art direction in that game is amazing! And it's a great game overall.
 
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TeddyShardik

TeddyShardik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,648
Germany
ezekial45 said:
I feel like you're regurgitating stuff you saw from the Matt Muscles video about the game, which is mostly made up of cobbled-together factoids and fanboy conjecture. Just let it go. DmC was a fine game, it's not getting a sequel (which it almost did), and the DMC series is back on track.
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I'm not regurgitating anything. O.o Maybe the general sentiment round the game at the time.

I agree it was a fine game. It was just the perspective of it replacing the "real" DMC that made me really go down on it and its devs. I now know that was fucking stupid.

This thread is more of a self-indictment than anything else, I guess.
 
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