Ninja Theory sets a new benchmark in video game animation

Garlador · Dec 15, 2019

NLCPRESIDENT said:
as for setting a benchmark in graphics, I disagree as it doesn't look better than TLOU2 which we've seen gameplay for.

Look, I understand that people like caping for ND, but their current-gen PS4 game limited by 6-year-old tech does not look better than this next-gen game running on next-gen hardware. Is ND an impressive studio? Yes, but this:

does not compare to this:

I could mention several reasons why - from more advanced lighting to more evolved photogrammetry to improvements in meshes, materials, and textures to subsurface scattering to evolutions in facial deformation software to more advanced and improved digital camera tools, etc. This is very much next-gen stuff that few current-gen games have full access to.

NLCPRESIDENT said:
Hellblade 2 looks insane as well. Unbelievably so, that's the problem. Nobody is downplaying Hellblade or NT. We both know this this benchmark statement was prematurely made just like that first Uncharted 4 reveal trailer.

Er, dozens of people have been downplaying Hellblade and NT. I've been popping into this thread every few pages and I'm continually amused by comments of "this was just a live-action teaser" or "it was just some Blur studio CG crap" or "this was a pre-rendered video, it wasn't real time", etc. etc.

And for the upteenth time... Ninja Theory isn't Naughty Dog. Ninja Theory didn't put out the infamous UC4 trailer they ultimately downgraded. Ninja Theory hasn't pulled a Ubisoft and outright misled everyone with stuff like Watch_Dogs or The Division. Ninja Theory games have consistently achieved the fidelity they've been revealed at, and that's been the case for nearly 15 YEARS. If anyone DESERVES the benefit of the doubt, it's a studio that doesn't have a reputation for over-promising and under-delivering, one that has dozens upon dozens of videos documenting their process and progress online on Youtube and elsewhere. One with a reputation among journalists and magazine writers for being one of the most shockingly open and candid studios in the landscape.

IF Ninja Theory has a reputation for misleading players, everyone would have a point. Even one example. But... they don't. Their reputation is sterling. That can always change, but even all the doubters about Hellblade 2's trailer running in-game, in real-time were confirmed outright to be unfounded.

OmegaSmash said:
Now if only they could make good playing games

Thankfully, they've made several. Always enjoyed the gameplay of Heavenly Sword, Enslaved, DmC, and Hellblade. It's FAR deeper than initial impressions might imply and certainly not something I'd remotely call "bad" in any way, shape, or form, especially once I got a handle of its rhythm.

DeadmansTheory · Dec 15, 2019

It looks amazing and had me start another play thru of Hellblade. As for some of the other responses about the game and not impressive or LA Noire is better...

Team_Feisar · Dec 15, 2019

It looks fantastic, just as the first Hellblade looked fantastic in the animation department.
My first thought was that it looks like the DMC5 Cutscenens (which were also in-Engine but used higher Quality assets than the actual game) but with way better shaders and more subtle and expressive muscle movement. It also helps that senua has a lot of paint on her face which gives it extra texture.
I think its not unreasonable to see early next-gen ingame model&animation-quality to slightly surpass end-of-this-generation cutscene assets (from studios that have then ecessary ressources ofc).
I still doubt that the Hellblade 2 Trailer is 100% what we will get in actual gameplay, but i absolutely believe that we will see this quality in real-time cutscenens.

Fastidioso · Dec 15, 2019

Not to be pedantic but we haven't seen anything yet about next generation benchmark except that.

Sems4arsenal · Dec 15, 2019

Blade Wolf said:
Daily Reminder:

THIS

NEVER

HAPPENED.

and the final game is far from 60FPS

This did, though.

NLCPRESIDENT · Dec 15, 2019

Garlador said:
Look, I understand that people like caping for ND, but their current-gen PS4 game limited by 6-year-old tech does not look better than this next-gen game running on next-gen hardware. Is ND an impressive studio? Yes, but this:

does not compare to this:

I could mention several reasons why - from more advanced lighting to more evolved photogrammetry to improvements in meshes, materials, and textures to subsurface scattering to evolutions in facial deformation software to more advanced and improved digital camera tools, etc. This is very much next-gen stuff that few current-gen games have full access to.

Er, dozens of people have been downplaying Hellblade and NT. I've been popping into this thread every few pages and I'm continually amused by comments of "this was just a live-action teaser" or "it was just some Blur studio CG crap" or "this was a pre-rendered video, it wasn't real time", etc. etc.

And for the upteenth time... Ninja Theory isn't Naughty Dog. Ninja Theory didn't put out the infamous UC4 trailer they ultimately downgraded. Ninja Theory hasn't pulled a Ubisoft and outright misled everyone with stuff like Watch_Dogs or The Division. Ninja Theory games have consistently achieved the fidelity they've been revealed at, and that's been the case for nearly 15 YEARS. If anyone DESERVES the benefit of the doubt, it's a studio that doesn't have a reputation for over-promising and under-delivering, one that has dozens upon dozens of videos documenting their process and progress online on Youtube and elsewhere. One with a reputation among journalists and magazine writers for being one of the most shockingly open and candid studios in the landscape.

IF Ninja Theory has a reputation for misleading players, everyone would have a point. Even one example. But... they don't. Their reputation is sterling. That can always change, but even all the doubters about Hellblade 2's trailer running in-game, in real-time were confirmed outright to be unfounded.

Thankfully, they've made several. Always enjoyed the gameplay of Heavenly Sword, Enslaved, DmC, and Hellblade. It's FAR deeper than initial impressions might imply and certainly not something I'd remotely call "bad" in any way, shape, or form, especially once I got a handle of its rhythm.

NT always been dope devs to me, but if you didn't think a statement like for a year early trailer wasn't going to get any static, you were wrong.

like I posted before tlou2 is a bigger game with impressive animations throughout the the cast, not just the protagonist fighting guys with masks on, which makes it more impressive to me.

if Hellblade 2 is anything like the first game it'll be a condensed 6-7 hour technical showpiece. Which is still impressive graphically just not a benchmark that sets the standard for next gen. It just seems like y'all are setting yourselves up for this argument. The first next gen game to be shown sets some type of benchmark? Cmon..

Sub Boss · Dec 15, 2019

Havoc_Blank said:
I've been hurt too many times. I want to believe it'll look this good, but you know downgrades from previews are almost guaranteed.

I mean, its a next gen game running on a system 10x more powerful than the current one, even if, at worst case scenario its downgraded, its still gonna look very very good much better than what you are used to
The reactions to this trailer have been weird to say the least

Crossing Eden · Dec 15, 2019

Sems4arsenal said:
This did, though.

The complexity of Nathan Drake in the final game is still a pretty far cry from the original trailer which they said was running in realtime on a ps4 and was 60fps. When the end result was that they had to downscale that complexity and halve the framerate to free up resources. On top of this TLOU2, based on the newest trailers at least, definitely isn't gonna match the original debut trailer. TLOU2 will look amazing, and Uncharted 4 and LL looks amazing, but ND doesn't have the consistency that NT has when it comes to delivering on the visuals seen in the earliest trailers. Quite the opposite, NT has never been afraid to show off early builds of their games that look straight up ugly compared to the final product and i'm not just talking about showing off grey box Hellblade.

EDIT:Lmao what the hell is that thumbnail.

Sems4arsenal · Dec 15, 2019

Crossing Eden said:
The complexity of Nathan Drake in the final game is still a pretty far cry from the original trailer which they said was running in realtime on a ps4 and was 60fps. When the end result was that they had to downscale that complexity and halve the framerate to free up resources. On top of this TLOU2, based on the newest trailers at least, definitely isn't gonna match the original debut trailer. TLOU2 will look amazing, and Uncharted 4 and LL looks amazing, but ND doesn't have the consistency that NT has when it comes to delivering on the visuals seen in the earliest trailers. Quite the opposite, NT has never been afraid to show off early builds of their games that look straight up ugly compared to the final product and i'm not just talking about showing off grey box Hellblade.

EDIT:Lmao what the hell is that thumbnail.

My point is if this can be achieved on a PS4, then the trailer we've seen seems plausable.

Pryme · Dec 15, 2019

NLCPRESIDENT said:
as for setting a benchmark in graphics, I disagree as it doesn't look better than TLOU2 which we've seen gameplay for.

i love how in one comment, you're saying the Hellblade 2 trailer looked unbelievable and incredibly real, and in the other you're saying it doesn't look better than TLOU 2 gameplay.

which is it?

get2sammyb · Dec 15, 2019

Hellblade has unbelievable facial animation on PS4, so it's no real surprise that that Ninja Theory's first next-gen project will be a step up from that.

The first next-gen projects from Quantic Dream and Naughty Dog will also inevitably impress.

What will be interesting about Hellblade 2 is how they expand upon the scope of the project. The original worked around its budget limitations in intelligent ways, but it was obvious where it had to cut corners. That shouldn't happen with this sequel.

NLCPRESIDENT · Dec 15, 2019

Pryme said:
i love how in one comment, you're saying the Hellblade 2 trailer looked unbelievable and incredibly real, and in the other you're saying it doesn't look better than TLOU 2 gameplay.

which is it?

I think Hellblade looks unreal. I've never experienced anything that looks that good so I'm taking that with a pinch. After playing the first Hellblade (day 1 mind you) I know it will be close to the game awards trailer..
Tlou2 I seen gameplay for. Running and jumping, enemies facial expressions, hiding under that car and shooting that lady in the face.. the whole store combat scene.. that's what is impressive to me.

and tbh, an comparison to tlou2, with Hellblade 2 is only going to help Hellblade 2. It's not as bad as some making it seem.

that's just my take on it. I'm getting HB2, don't know if it'll be day one as next year is crazy. But I will have it and a Sex

Crossing Eden · Dec 15, 2019

Sems4arsenal said:
My point is if this can be achieved on a PS4, then the trailer we've seen seems plausable.

Ah ok

Garlador · Dec 15, 2019

NLCPRESIDENT said:
NT always been dope devs to me, but if you didn't think a statement like for a year early trailer wasn't going to get any static, you were wrong.

No, but the manner OF the discussion is a bit... disingenuous. A lot of dismissal and skepticism about what the trailer was doing - even AFTER it was confirmed it was doing it. That's still going on.

NLCPRESIDENT said:
like I posted before tlou2 is a bigger game with impressive animations throughout the the cast, not just the protagonist fighting guys with masks on, which makes it more impressive to me.

We don't know how big Hellblade 2 is. Already, they've shown multiple villagers, Celtic warriors, and a much larger cast - all in-game - than the original title. I find it strange to say that Ninja Theory absolutely nailing graphics and animation on a few characters isn't comparable to Naughty Dog doing the same for what's actually typically a cast of a half-dozen in their games (honestly, their games MOSTLY have a few key players, and the NPC generic baddies aren't given nearly as much focus or detail, especially in-game).

NLCPRESIDENT said:
if Hellblade 2 is anything like the first game it'll be a condensed 6-7 hour technical showpiece.

Funny enough, a lot of people call the Uncharted games the same thing. I can blow through one of those first-time in about 6-7 hours or less.

NLCPRESIDENT said:
Which is still impressive graphically just not a benchmark that sets the standard for next gen. It just seems like y'all are setting yourselves up for this argument. The first next gen game to be shown sets some type of benchmark? Cmon..

Yes? I mean, it'll probably be on PC as well, and know what modern PCs are capable of currently. Until something else comes along to surpass it, it's the benchmark. Will something eventually surpass it? Yes. Is that day today? No, it's not.

Thus, in the present, Hellblade 2 is the benchmark for in-game, real-time graphics.

Biggzy · Dec 15, 2019

Flousn said:
It looks fantastic, just as the first Hellblade looked fantastic in the animation department.
My first thought was that it looks like the DMC5 Cutscenens (which were also in-Engine but used higher Quality assets than the actual game) but with way better shaders and more subtle and expressive muscle movement. It also helps that senua has a lot of paint on her face which gives it extra texture.
I think its not unreasonable to see early next-gen ingame model&animation-quality to slightly surpass end-of-this-generation cutscene assets (from studios that have then ecessary ressources ofc).
I still doubt that the Hellblade 2 Trailer is 100% what we will get in actual gameplay, but i absolutely believe that we will see this quality in real-time cutscenens.

Man. You just reminded me how stunning the character models look in DMC V.

NLCPRESIDENT · Dec 15, 2019

edit: nm. Game looks good.

StudioTan · Dec 15, 2019

Nooblet said:
But that doesn't mean it's automatically above any beyond any animations seen so far. The TLoU2 and Death Stranding stuff are pretty damn on par.

I mean, they're just not. The muscle deformation alone is far above anything in either of those games.

Crossing Eden · Dec 15, 2019

Biggzy said:
Man. You just reminded me how stunning the character models look in DMC V.

DMCV to me has the most convincing smile ever seen in a video game. Betty Dahbomb do you guys have a gif of Dante smiling during the ending?

Team_Feisar · Dec 15, 2019

Crossing Eden said:
DMCV to me has the most convincing smile ever seen in a video game. Betty Dahbomb do you guys have a gif of Dante smiling during the ending?

Best I could find

Crossing Eden · Dec 15, 2019

Flousn said:
Best I could find

I mean yes those but I meant this.

DMC5 is masterful.

Firima · Dec 15, 2019

Garlador said:
No, but the manner OF the discussion is a bit... disingenuous. A lot of dismissal and skepticism about what the trailer was doing - even AFTER it was confirmed it was doing it. That's still going on.

I swear, if MS announces another game with visuals this impressive, this site is going to be more unreadable than a two year-old's thank you letter to Grandma for the Christmas present.

NLCPRESIDENT · Dec 15, 2019

StudioTan said:
I mean, they're just not. The muscle deformation alone is far above anything in either of those games.

Uhh.. forgive me bro, but I think your wires are crossed.. I don't remember saying anything about Death Stranding at all. I never played it.

christocolus · Dec 15, 2019

DeadmansTheory said:
It looks amazing and had me start another play thru of Hellblade. As for some of the other responses about the game and not impressive or LA Noire is better...

Lol...

StudioTan · Dec 15, 2019

NLCPRESIDENT said:
Uhh.. forgive me bro, but I think your wires are crossed.. I don't remember saying anything about Death Stranding at all. I never played it.

Sorry, I edited the post so that it quoted the right person. I was originally going to reply to you but it's not worth it, people see what they want to see.

Deleted member 4761 · Dec 15, 2019

NLCPRESIDENT said:
I doubt it. I know the kind of experience Hellblade is. And TLOU2 is far more attractive of a game. Those facial animations of one lady compared to every living entity in the last of us 2 is just more impressive and THE game to beat graphically. :p

This is insane.

Sub Boss · Dec 15, 2019

DMC 5 looks good but jesus if the artsyle is horrible and scope a bit limited

i think i have the issue with REngine games in general, overall they look realistic but somethings is always a bit off, with RE7 textures for example like you have fantastic looking surfaces and then ugly/poor with weird geometry at places.

Kasey · Dec 15, 2019

Flousn said:

I can't get over how stupid Vergil looks in this game.

Sub Boss · Dec 15, 2019

Kasey said:
I can't get over how stupid Vergil looks in this game.

Its funny he doesn't look like Dante's twin brother 🤭

Team_Feisar · Dec 15, 2019

Kasey said:
I can't get over how stupid Vergil looks in this game.

Off topic but it's the hair. It looks weird. His face is okay imo.
Mock-up with different hair:

NLCPRESIDENT · Dec 15, 2019

StudioTan said:
Sorry, I edited the post so that it quoted the right person. I was originally going to reply to you but it's not worth it, people see what they want to see.

Yup. They sure do.

Adamska · Dec 15, 2019

I honestly don't understand why people are using DMC5 as a measuring stick, or any other RE engine game for that matter. I mean, those games look fine and all, but every skin looks like plastic, especially compared against stuff like GOW, Gears, Detroit, Days Gone and a bunch other games too. It really seems to struggle with nailing the different properties of materials, IMO.

JaseC64 · Dec 15, 2019

I think it's too early to be having these comparisons.

Hellblade 2 is a year away. Part2 is coming next summer. We havent seen an actual PS5 1st party exclusive.

So right now Hellblade 2 as a showcase for next year is a good expectation of where things will get to. That makes me excited. I cant wait to se more of this game and what Sony 1st parties will come up with now that they will have 2x the power of a pro or whatever.

ResetEraVetVIP · Dec 15, 2019

FIREKNIGHT2029 said:
I've played it, calm your horses soldier. I'm just skeptical about early in-engine trailers of next gen games. It's like some of y'all have forgotten when this was supposed to be "real time"...

I don't trust anything until gameplay is shown. It's my policy this gen and it will be my policy going into next gen as well.

LOL! i agree but hellblade 2 is possible. Look at Death Stranding and look at hellblade on hardware 8 times as powerful

ResetEraVetVIP · Dec 15, 2019

Adamska said:
I honestly don't understand why people are using DMC5 as a measuring stick, or any other RE engine game for that matter. I mean, those games look fine and all, but every skin looks like plastic, especially compared against stuff like GOW, Gears, Detroit, Days Gone and a bunch other games too. It really seems to struggle with nailing the different properties of materials, IMO.

Garlador said:
Look, I understand that people like caping for ND, but their current-gen PS4 game limited by 6-year-old tech does not look better than this next-gen game running on next-gen hardware. Is ND an impressive studio? Yes, but this:

does not compare to this:

I could mention several reasons why - from more advanced lighting to more evolved photogrammetry to improvements in meshes, materials, and textures to subsurface scattering to evolutions in facial deformation software to more advanced and improved digital camera tools, etc. This is very much next-gen stuff that few current-gen games have full access to.

Er, dozens of people have been downplaying Hellblade and NT. I've been popping into this thread every few pages and I'm continually amused by comments of "this was just a live-action teaser" or "it was just some Blur studio CG crap" or "this was a pre-rendered video, it wasn't real time", etc. etc.

And for the upteenth time... Ninja Theory isn't Naughty Dog. Ninja Theory didn't put out the infamous UC4 trailer they ultimately downgraded. Ninja Theory hasn't pulled a Ubisoft and outright misled everyone with stuff like Watch_Dogs or The Division. Ninja Theory games have consistently achieved the fidelity they've been revealed at, and that's been the case for nearly 15 YEARS. If anyone DESERVES the benefit of the doubt, it's a studio that doesn't have a reputation for over-promising and under-delivering, one that has dozens upon dozens of videos documenting their process and progress online on Youtube and elsewhere. One with a reputation among journalists and magazine writers for being one of the most shockingly open and candid studios in the landscape.

IF Ninja Theory has a reputation for misleading players, everyone would have a point. Even one example. But... they don't. Their reputation is sterling. That can always change, but even all the doubters about Hellblade 2's trailer running in-game, in real-time were confirmed outright to be unfounded.

Thankfully, they've made several. Always enjoyed the gameplay of Heavenly Sword, Enslaved, DmC, and Hellblade. It's FAR deeper than initial impressions might imply and certainly not something I'd remotely call "bad" in any way, shape, or form, especially once I got a handle of its rhythm.

Exactly! Next Gen Hardware Blows away PS4 and XBO

MP! · Dec 16, 2019

i-Lo said:
The fuck?

There is nothing wrong with how she looks, her gums included. It is her idiosyncratic visual signature and NT have rendered her absolutely faithfully. To make changes to her to "pretty her up" would be doing a disservice to that.

Furthermore, this is a poor, poor attitude that underscores the pervasive and pernicious beauty standards for female characters in game and women in general.

pfpfpfttt who's talking about beauty
I'm talking about animation.
people need to chill the heck out.

Theorry · Dec 16, 2019

Yerffej · Dec 16, 2019

Theorry said:

lol

Hey Please · Dec 16, 2019

MP! said:
pfpfpfttt who's talking about beauty
I'm talking about animation.
people need to chill the heck out.

Sure jan. What a load of bollocks.

Kamaros · Dec 16, 2019

why do i get the feeling that this trailer "in engine, cinematic" will be the next Killzone 2 CG trailer when we see the final game? i honestly hope we can achieve the graphics shown but until we see it running i'm skeptical.

that being said, Hellblade is one big looker even on my modest machine (1050gtx and a i5-8) so i have high hopes.

MP! · Dec 16, 2019

i-Lo said:
Sure jan. What a load of bollocks.

That's cool if you don't believe me...
I'm an animator ... it's my job to look at facial motion and make it as appealing as possible... I merely gave my opinion on the performance and how it looked from my point of view. None of which is setting impossible beauty standards on women.

Hogendaz85 · Dec 16, 2019

Adamska said:
I honestly don't understand why people are using DMC5 as a measuring stick, or any other RE engine game for that matter. I mean, those games look fine and all, but every skin looks like plastic, especially compared against stuff like GOW, Gears, Detroit, Days Gone and a bunch other games too. It really seems to struggle with nailing the different properties of materials, IMO.

cmon as good as gears 5 looks it does not look anywhere near realistic.

also another thing is with all these ND posts I think everyone is proving just how possible it is for Senua to look like that in real time. Looks like the next logical leap to me

Pandora012 · Dec 16, 2019

I'll just say that it's a bit too soon to say that they have set a new benchmark. I mean....we haven't really seen much else for next gen stuff.

Deleted member 4247 · Dec 16, 2019

TLoU2 and this seem pretty evenly matched. Of course Hellblade looks even better, but just in terms of animation quality.

Hey Please · Dec 16, 2019

MP! said:
That's cool if you don't believe me...

Reading the series of post, I don't know how anyone else could to any different conclusion. And just as importantly, I despise being gaslighted.

FlintSpace · Dec 16, 2019

In my head these hyperbole title threads comes out as Ninja Theory DESTROYS etc etc..

Let the game come out.
Let TLOU2 come out.

MP! · Dec 16, 2019

i-Lo said:
Reading the series of post, I don't know how anyone else could to any different conclusion. And just as importantly, I despise being gaslighted.

Never mind I checked your history of posts you are clearly hostile... you love to argue. I'll let it go.

Hey Please · Dec 16, 2019

MP! said:
Never mind I checked your history of posts you are clearly hostile... you love to argue. I'll let it go.

Good job on deflection. You do you. Members who can read can follow the chain of events to see right past that gaslighting malarkey.

Dreams-Visions · Dec 16, 2019

FlintSpace said:
In my head these hyperbole title threads comes out as Ninja Theory DESTROYS etc etc..

sounds like a personal problem.

FlintSpace said:
Let the game come out.
Let TLOU2 come out.

I'm not sure that's necessary in a discussion about a game producing excellent visuals but limited to 2013 hardware features in comparison to next-gen visuals on 2020 hardware. Especially given the pedigree for animation and visual detail at both studios. It's silly to suggest otherwise. Now Hellblade 2 vs TLOU 3 is a discussion worth having.

ResetEraVetVIP · Dec 16, 2019

RoadHazard said:
TLoU2 and this seem pretty evenly matched. Of course Hellblade looks even better, but just in terms of animation quality.

Lol hellblade looks wayyy better in everyway

Deleted member 4247 · Dec 16, 2019

ResetEraVetVIP said:
Lol hellblade looks wayyy better in everyway

Well, we've seen only cutscene material. From TLoU2 we've seen amazing in-game animation that basically no game can match. But we'll see!

Ninja Theory sets a new benchmark in video game animation

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