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Abominuz

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,550
Netherlands
It's just a different wording than YouTube.

Subscribing on YouTube = Following on Twitch
Subscribing on Twitch = Getting an adfree (or somewhat ad free) experience with some additional perks like channel specific smileys.

Watching streaming content is still free on Twitch (besides the very uncommon case of people streaming sub-only).

It still boggles my mind that people pay money to watch other people play games, but then again i have the same with reality shows etc. What is shocking is the amount of money going around. I did not know Twitch and Mixer are such a popular media. How much is it to sub on twitch or is it something the streamer decides?
 

Kelanflyter

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
1,730
France
It's just a different wording than YouTube.

Subscribing on YouTube = Following on Twitch
Subscribing on Twitch = Getting an adfree (or somewhat ad free) experience with some additional perks like channel specific smileys.

Watching streaming content is still free on Twitch (besides the very uncommon case of people streaming sub-only).
thanks, it's much clear now.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
It still boggles my mind that people pay money to watch other people play games, but then again i have the same with reality shows etc. What is shocking is the amount of money going around. I did not know Twitch and Mixer are such a popular media. How much is it to sub on twitch or is it something the streamer decides?

Depends on the tier. A normal sub is $5. But Twitch has Prime Subs, so people with Amazon Prime can sub to a Twitch streamer of choice every month.

But there are different perks for different tiers. There are also subs for 15 dollars per month, which will give you different emoticons, titles, badges, etc.
 

Jeronimo

Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,377
So they got what they wanted/paid for. The appeal of watching streamers is lost on me, but it's not my money.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,991
Downloaded the app, subscribed, watched for 3 minutes, still 0 interaction with chat, closed the app.

Yesterday he had 26k viewers which is kinda bad, expecting to drop to 16k next week.

Don't agree it was a worthwhile investment for Microsoft considering that Ninja for a long time was behind the shadow of Tfue. But maybe he will be useful in a long run.
If you watched on the 1st day, he was in a Fortnite pub stomp tournament and had to have a 4 minute delay. Don't really watch enough to know how much he interacts with chat. His buddies (Tim, Lupo and a few others) do a lot.
 
Jul 15, 2019
248
And in 6 months someone else will be getting double the viewers of Tfue. The next hotness. That's the cycle and Microsoft won't be oblivious to that.

Consider that Microsoft didn't just invest in Ninja purely for the number of viewers, but likely for involvement in first party marketing launches, presenter segments in Inside Xbox or whatever. Not to mention all the mainstream PR Mixer has just received. Also consider that Ninja isn't going to be the only streamer Microsoft is courting over; when a few big names are on there and it becomes a healthier and more vibrant community, everyone will see better viewing numbers.
https://esportsobserver.com/microsoft-layoffs-mixer/ very vibrant and healthy when u lay-off employees to buy a streamer ..
 

Ohri-Jin

Banned
Jul 11, 2019
1,129
The Netherlands
lmao folk that never watched him on Twitch will now suddenly watch him on Mixer? How is that not weird?

I guess it panned out for Microsoft in that regard. What a waste of money if you ask me...

I am content with Twitch, Youtube and hell even Facebook has a streaming service these days.
https://esportsobserver.com/microsoft-layoffs-mixer/ very vibrant and healthy when u lay-off employees to buy a streamer ..
Oh yeah I forgot about that... They fired a bunch of Mixer crew and insiders few months back. Only to later splash 50 mill for Ninja. Oh boy...
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,370
https://esportsobserver.com/microsoft-layoffs-mixer/ very vibrant and healthy when u lay-off employees to buy a streamer ..

Oh yeah I forgot about that... They fired a bunch of Mixer crew and insiders few months back. Only to later splash 50 mill for Ninja. Oh boy...

If Microsoft kept the mixer crew and didn't sign Ninja would they be in a different position today with Mixer?

We literally had people on this site (a video game enthusiast site) asking what Mixer was. It's obvious they needed to do something.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,222
Wow, that's a lot of subscribers. This is probably the best thing MS could have done to grow Mixer.
 

Ohri-Jin

Banned
Jul 11, 2019
1,129
The Netherlands
If Microsoft kept the mixer crew and didn't sign Ninja would they be in a different position today with Mixer?

We literally had people on this site (a video game enthusiast site) asking what Mixer was. It's obvious they needed to do something.
Yeah but come on dude I saw one woman on twitter stating like "hey I am now officially unemployed and am free to hire so yeah that's that." What if you have your passion as your job and suddenly it is poof gone, but wait that is not all: Splash 50 mill.

She was being neutral about it, but quite frankly no one wants to get fired for no reason... then to hear they splashed 50 mill later on for a streamer. Yeah I would be salty too.
 

Somnia

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,954
It's about retention.

Check back in a month to see how many concurrent viewers he has.

Mixer is a wasteland, aside from ninja there is zero reason to go there. And as a non ninja fan there is literally no reason to go at all.

Oh you've watched every streamer? You've tuned in and spent time talking to everyone?

This is insulting honestly. There are some amazing streamers on Mixer. Just because they don't have 10,000 viewers doesnt mean they aren't worth watching.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,370
Yeah but come on dude I saw one woman on twitter stating like "hey I am now officially unemployed and am free to hire so yeah that's that." What if you have your passion as your job and suddenly it is poof gone, but wait that is not all: Splash 50 mill.

She was being neutral about it, but quite frankly no one wants to get fired for no reason... then to hear they splashed 50 mill later on for a streamer. Yeah I would be salty too.

It makes sense to be upset, losing a job is never easy. And it sucks several people were laid off.

But the original content wasn't working and they have stated they are planning on taking mixer in another direction, so sadly the plan to lay off the employee's made sense. Mixer had literally failed to gain traction and gain fans, and again, the point is to grow the platform. It really sounds like Microsoft is going away from the original programming, so it wouldn't make sense to keep those teams and employees.


This appears to be a strategy shift for Microsoft, as Mixer continues to move toward taking a bigger bite of the streaming pie. Cutting whole teams of original content producers indicates that Microsoft is taking a different approach moving forward, potentially tapping its vast network of streamers and influencers that would likely be eager to "step up."


Last year, Microsoft introduced the ability to broadcast everything that happens on their screen through Mixer, specifically for Xbox One. This means when streaming, Xbox One users can show off everything on their interface.

Microsoft fleshed out Mixer with interestingly tools, but the platform has struggled to gain traction. Whether this is Microsoft once again failing to properly push a product or simply the weight of market leader Switch being too much remains to be seen.

Amazon-owned Twitch is certainly the favored choice for streamers. Fortnite is the latest gaming giant and Twitch viewership on the game is around 6x higher than Mixer.


-------

I've seen people say how Ninja is just a streamer, but he's done more in one week to get people 1.) talking about mixer 2.) downloading the app 3.) making an account than anything previously Microsoft has done. Maybe in a week he'll be down to 10K viewers or less, but so far he's done the job Microsoft has wanted him to. And I don't think his contract is limited to JUST streaming video games. Like others have said, it's probably a multi-year contract with commentary/streaming various events, like the upcoming Halo Infinite showing (whenever that is). They are basically paying for marketing upfront for a video game influencer, that will help visilbility of multiple services, from Mixer to xCloud to first party games.
 

Somnia

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,954
One thing also regarding his #s. Yesterday he kept between 25 and 35,000. Numbers dipped when he was in between games and rose during games. Over than Tfue and Tim at points, this was still higher than any individual streamer on twitch most of the day (not counting EVO, etc.).

On top of that everyone knew his numbers would be lower on Mixer, even Ninja had to know that. The site doesn't even come close to the traffic of Twitch. On that though in 3 days of streaming he's gained 650,000 followers. That's a lot for Mixer in 3 days. It took Ship almost 2 years to hit 500,000.
 

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
61,057
It makes sense to be upset, losing a job is never easy. And it sucks several people were laid off.

But the original content wasn't working and they have stated they are planning on taking mixer in another direction, so sadly the plan to lay off the employee's made sense. Mixer had literally failed to gain traction and gain fans, and again, the point is to grow the platform. It really sounds like Microsoft is going away from the original programming, so it wouldn't make sense to keep those teams and employees.


This appears to be a strategy shift for Microsoft, as Mixer continues to move toward taking a bigger bite of the streaming pie. Cutting whole teams of original content producers indicates that Microsoft is taking a different approach moving forward, potentially tapping its vast network of streamers and influencers that would likely be eager to "step up."


Last year, Microsoft introduced the ability to broadcast everything that happens on their screen through Mixer, specifically for Xbox One. This means when streaming, Xbox One users can show off everything on their interface.

Microsoft fleshed out Mixer with interestingly tools, but the platform has struggled to gain traction. Whether this is Microsoft once again failing to properly push a product or simply the weight of market leader Switch being too much remains to be seen.

Amazon-owned Twitch is certainly the favored choice for streamers. Fortnite is the latest gaming giant and Twitch viewership on the game is around 6x higher than Mixer.


-------

I've seen people say how Ninja is just a streamer, but he's done more in one week to get people 1.) talking about mixer 2.) downloading the app 3.) making an account than anything previously Microsoft has done. Maybe in a week he'll be down to 10K viewers or less, but so far he's done the job Microsoft has wanted him to. And I don't think his contract is limited to JUST streaming video games. Like others have said, it's probably a multi-year contract with commentary/streaming various events, like the upcoming Halo Infinite showing (whenever that is). They are basically paying for marketing upfront for a video game influencer, that will help visilbility of multiple services, from Mixer to xCloud to first party games.
Thank you. Great summary.
 

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
I know he's cooled off on twitch from his (completely unsustainable peak) but I wonder if he did another big event type stream (Drake juju etc) if he could reach another peak

Fake edit: I desperately want "broadcast everything" to return to console so I could stream my switch through the hdmi-in that would be cool
 

Ohri-Jin

Banned
Jul 11, 2019
1,129
The Netherlands
It makes sense to be upset, losing a job is never easy. And it sucks several people were laid off.

But the original content wasn't working and they have stated they are planning on taking mixer in another direction, so sadly the plan to lay off the employee's made sense. Mixer had literally failed to gain traction and gain fans, and again, the point is to grow the platform. It really sounds like Microsoft is going away from the original programming, so it wouldn't make sense to keep those teams and employees.


This appears to be a strategy shift for Microsoft, as Mixer continues to move toward taking a bigger bite of the streaming pie. Cutting whole teams of original content producers indicates that Microsoft is taking a different approach moving forward, potentially tapping its vast network of streamers and influencers that would likely be eager to "step up."


Last year, Microsoft introduced the ability to broadcast everything that happens on their screen through Mixer, specifically for Xbox One. This means when streaming, Xbox One users can show off everything on their interface.

Microsoft fleshed out Mixer with interestingly tools, but the platform has struggled to gain traction. Whether this is Microsoft once again failing to properly push a product or simply the weight of market leader Switch being too much remains to be seen.

Amazon-owned Twitch is certainly the favored choice for streamers. Fortnite is the latest gaming giant and Twitch viewership on the game is around 6x higher than Mixer.


-------

I've seen people say how Ninja is just a streamer, but he's done more in one week to get people 1.) talking about mixer 2.) downloading the app 3.) making an account than anything previously Microsoft has done. Maybe in a week he'll be down to 10K viewers or less, but so far he's done the job Microsoft has wanted him to. And I don't think his contract is limited to JUST streaming video games. Like others have said, it's probably a multi-year contract with commentary/streaming various events, like the upcoming Halo Infinite showing (whenever that is). They are basically paying for marketing upfront for a video game influencer, that will help visilbility of multiple services, from Mixer to xCloud to first party games.
Platform struggled to gain traction? Well I wonder why that is. Might be because no one asked for Mixer. Hell even the name "mixer" is quite uninspiring.

There are many reasons why the platform wasn't gaining traction which I will not delve in, because there is no point in bickering really.

Well Microsoft definitely has their hands in all sorts of different pies. Hope it pans out in long term. Still think it is a waste of money tbh.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
Platform struggled to gain traction? Well I wonder why that is. Might be because no one asked for Mixer. Hell even the name "mixer" is quite uninspiring.

There are many reasons why the platform wasn't gaining traction which I will not delve in, because there is no point in bickering really.

Well Microsoft definitely has their hands in all sorts of different pies. Hope it pans out in long term. Still think it is a waste of money tbh.

Plenty of people have asked for twitch alternatives and mixer, for a time at least, offered bonafide unique features like low-latency streaming (twitch now has their own). Mixer wasn't their first name choice, clearly, since it was called "Beam" before running into global trademark issues. I'm not sure how either are more or less inspiring than "Twitch" or "Youtube Gaming". I do think "Mixer" is a bit misguided as most people (in the gaming world at least) think of kitchen mixers and not the social event they were going for. Services with more 'inspiring' names like "Hitbox" haven't fared any better.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,685
Wonder if this means the Mixer app developers will finally put back casting to Chrome devices and TV's. Fuckers took it out years ago and never put it back.
 

SJRB

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
4,861
Plenty of people have asked for twitch alternatives. Mixer wasn't their first name choice, clearly, since it was called "Beam" before running into global trademark issues. I'm not sure how either are more or less inspiring than "Twitch" or "Youtube Gaming". I do think "Mixer" is a bit misguided as most people (in the gaming world at least) think of kitchen mixers and not the social event they were going for.

I honestly thought Mixer was a Soundcould-esque audio streaming site until the Ninja thing happened.

Mixer is kind of a bizarre name. Twitch is as well, but at least you don't [subcontiously] associate that with something it's not.
 

scaryrobots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,130
Doing Robot things
It's about retention.

Check back in a month to see how many concurrent viewers he has.

Mixer is a wasteland, aside from ninja there is zero reason to go there. And as a non ninja fan there is literally no reason to go at all.

Why because it doesn't have Lirik, Summit and the rother big names at Twitch? There's some really nice and entertaining people streaming over at Mixer.
 

Ohri-Jin

Banned
Jul 11, 2019
1,129
The Netherlands
Plenty of people have asked for twitch alternatives and mixer, for a time at least, offered bonafide unique features like low-latency streaming (twitch now has their own). Mixer wasn't their first name choice, clearly, since it was called "Beam" before running into global trademark issues. I'm not sure how either are more or less inspiring than "Twitch" or "Youtube Gaming". I do think "Mixer" is a bit misguided as most people (in the gaming world at least) think of kitchen mixers and not the social event they were going for. Services with more 'inspiring' names like "Hitbox" haven't fared any better.
Fair enough with the low latency streaming, but if I'm not mistaken both Twitch and Youtube Gaming has that now. That is still not enough I guess that is just 1 feature.

Let's not forget Twitch build it's platform for years. Youtube has existed for years and streaming was only a natural evolution. It makes sense.

And yes Mixer does remind me of Blender (free 3d drawing software) and some kind of kitchen appliance. 😂

Twitch and Youtube is also platform agnostic. Mixer is Xbox. I don't see Mixer ever becoming a thing even WITH Ninja, but of course that is just my opinion.

I guess it boils down to making it enticing for Influencers to make content on platforms. Moneyhatting seems like a joke to me. That money has to be recouped so risk for sure.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
It's about retention.

Check back in a month to see how many concurrent viewers he has.

Mixer is a wasteland, aside from ninja there is zero reason to go there. And as a non ninja fan there is literally no reason to go at all.

There are plenty of great streamers on Mixer. They just don't get the traffic and attention they could get on Twitch right now. And by the way, smaller streams can be just as fun (or even better) than big streams because of the interactive and engaged nature of small streams.

I also find it quite condescending towards those hundreds of streamers on Mixer doing their job everyday. As if their work doesn't count because they aren't on the 'right' platform.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
Streamers are about to get paaaaid. I'm happy for them. Competition is good. If this gives shroud, summit etc some bargaining leverage it will be good for them.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
Fair enough with the low latency streaming, but if I'm not mistaken both Twitch and Youtube Gaming has that now. That is still not enough I guess that is just 1 feature.

Let's not forget Twitch build it's platform for years. Youtube has existed for years and streaming was only a natural evolution. It makes sense.

And yes Mixer does remind me of Blender (free 3d drawing software) and some kind of kitchen appliance. 😂

Twitch and Youtube is also platform agnostic. Mixer is Xbox. I don't see Mixer ever becoming a thing even WITH Ninja, but of course that is just my opinion.

I guess it boils down to making it enticing for Influencers to make content on platforms. Moneyhatting seems like a joke to me. That money has to be recouped so risk for sure.

Why wouldn't Mixer be platform agnostic? They even have PS4 and Nintendo Switch focused original content. (The Red Show & The Blue Show).

I'm just not sure if Sony will allow the service on their platform.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
I honestly thought Mixer was a Soundcould-esque audio streaming site until the Ninja thing happened.

Mixer is kind of a bizarre name. Twitch is as well, but at least you don't [subcontiously] associate that with something it's not.

Right, that's what I was trying to get at. A social mixer is basically a party or event for people to get to know each other. It makes perfect sense as a name.... except that it is only used that way for like fraternity/sororities and professional networking. People in the gaming world will never think of that definition first
 

Ohri-Jin

Banned
Jul 11, 2019
1,129
The Netherlands
Why wouldn't Mixer be platform agnostic? They even have PS4 and Nintendo Switch focused original content. (The Red Show & The Blue Show).

I'm just not sure if Sony will allow the service on their platform.
Technically I could stream on Mixer via game capture card, but why should I honestly? I can show off all these Sony exclusives im playing right now yay.

If more and more influencers make content on Mixer (because it can be super profitable for them) then sure Mixer offers competition.

However money hatting Ninja an influencer of his stature sure, still seems like a joke to me. What a waste of money they could have invested in making quality games, but yeah Microsoft is so rich...

Hell if Sony decides to create their own game streaming service like Twitch, Youtube or Mixer I will cringe so hard as well.

There is no neeeeeeed. Seems like a waste of resources to me. I think this is going to be my last post in this thread though. I honestly shouldn't care so much. 😅
 

Somnia

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,954
Why wouldn't Mixer be platform agnostic? They even have PS4 and Nintendo Switch focused original content. (The Red Show & The Blue Show).

I'm just not sure if Sony will allow the service on their platform.

Correct, Mixer is platform agnostic. It just currently console wise only allowed on xbox even though they'd love to have the application on other platforms also.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
Technically I could stream on Mixer via game capture card, but why should I honestly? I can show off all these Sony exclusives im playing right now yay.

If more and more influencers make content on Mixer (because it can be super profitable for them) then sure Mixer offers competition.

However money hatting Ninja an influencer of his stature sure, still seems like a joke to me. What a waste of money they could have invested in making quality games, but yeah Microsoft is so rich...

Hell if Sony decides to create their own game streaming service like Twitch, Youtube or Mixer I will cringe so hard as well.

There is no neeeeeeed. Seems like a waste of resources to me. I think this is going to be my last post in this thread though. I honestly shouldn't care so much. 😅

Microsoft would love it if you played God of War or The Last of Us 2 on Mixer. It's a separate platform for every gamer. Their goal is to get more PS4 and PC people into their platform.

I don't understand your other comments. The recent discussion about clothing guidelines have just shown how much a need for competition there is. And CohhCarnage's comments about competition in the streaming world are interesting too. Twitch has been the de facto streaming platform for years. It's good that Google and Microsoft try and break that. We all profit from it.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
I've seen people say how Ninja is just a streamer, but he's done more in one week to get people 1.) talking about mixer 2.) downloading the app 3.) making an account than anything previously Microsoft has done. Maybe in a week he'll be down to 10K viewers or less, but so far he's done the job Microsoft has wanted him to.
As an ad of sorts he's obviously fantastic, and the free sub period is genious, I'm just not sure he's worth 50 mil usd. But people laughed at MS for buying Minecraft as well.
 

Kompis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,021
How the fuck can this be considered a "risky move" when he has already recieved above $50 million? Its not like he gonna go homeless if this move turns into a fiasco.
 

Somnia

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,954
Microsoft would love it if you played God of War or The Last of Us 2 on Mixer. It's a separate platform for every gamer. Their goal is to get more PS4 and PC people into their platform.

I don't understand your other comments. The recent discussion about clothing guidelines have just shown how much a need for competition there is. And CohhCarnage's comments about competition in the streaming world are interesting too. Twitch has been the de facto streaming platform for years. It's good that Google and Microsoft try and break that. We all profit from it.


Hell God of War was the #1 streamed game on Mixer when it came out and Mixer even gave the game to a ton of their partners to stream it.

Just because Mixer is Microsoft own doesn't make it an xbox platform. Sure MS does a lot of xbox stuff on it, but they very much want it to be open to all platforms as you said.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
How the fuck can this be considered a "risky move" when he has already recieved above $50 million? Its not like he gonna go homeless if this move turns into a fiasco.

We actually have no idea what he has received but suffice it to say he was well compensated and it would take into account Mixer's struggling status
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,370
I'm just not sure he's worth 50 mil usd

I'm not sure either tbh. But Ninja was making roughly 12 million a year from streaming alone on Twitch from my understanding.

If we had access to some of Microsoft's internal numbers, marketing cost, as well as the terms of this decision it would be easier to say if it would be worth it or not.

With that said, right now Mixer has the most momentum it's ever had. Microsoft needs to capitalize. Team up with more streamers, developers, free skins, community events, etc.

(And if they were already doing that ignore my post lol. Only time I really watch mixer or twitch is for new video game launches/events)
 

Kilgore

Member
Feb 5, 2018
3,538
Microsoft have done a lot of things "no one was asking for" including Xbox, Bing or even Azure. You don't need people to come to you asking to compete, you only need to want to.
 

Braaier

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
13,237
I'm not sure either tbh. But Ninja was making roughly 12 million a year from streaming alone on Twitch from my understanding.

If we had access to some of Microsoft's internal numbers, marketing cost, as well as the terms of this decision it would be easier to say if it would be worth it or not.

With that said, right now Mixer has the most momentum it's ever had. Microsoft needs to capitalize. Team up with more streamers, developers, free skins, community events, etc.

(And if they were already doing that ignore my post lol. Only time I really watch mixer or twitch is for new video game launches/events)
Someone mentioned that Microsoft should lock down some exclusive tournaments (ie Evo). That could definitely help too. And I imagine doing stuff like this would be relatively cheap. These tournaments aren't making a ton of money
 

Somnia

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,954
Can you give some examples? I'm curious and interested.

What are you looking for? Shooters, BRs, variety?

Britni, Covent, IceRocker, JaredFPS, Ship, Kabby, Kmagic101, Renee, Punjistick, Handsoff, DaUnknown, RealCaustic, TakedownTV

That's a small list of people I know and enjoy.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
I'm not sure either tbh. But Ninja was making roughly 12 million a year from streaming alone on Twitch from my understanding.
Oh My God :o
I just tried adding up my yearly salaries... All of them. 24 years in total, full time, and I came to the conclusion that I've earned in total roughly 7 mil SEK, which is about $700K....
I've got gray beard and is almost seeing the retirement looming on the horizon. And he's just a kid, playing games all day long.
Life isn't fair. :s
 

demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,607
You have to pay to watch on mixer?

No.
You pay to subscribe. You sub to ppl you want to support and get chat icons and be part of the streamers community. Anyone can watch for free. But if you sub you might get to play games with them or something like that (streamers as big as ninja don't usually do that).