Deleted all my saves because I'm a dumbass and it seemed like it was the right thing to do. Tought it was a bluff... Oh well.
I got ending ABCD so I think I've seen most of it?
I got ending ABCD so I think I've seen most of it?
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NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter BRSxIgnition
- Start date
Do you have PS Plus? If so, you could look up whether you've got a backup save file in the cloud.
But generally speaking, you've seen all of the main story content after endings to A to E (E is the one that asks you whether or not you want to delete your save file for the greater good). There's still data you might not have read though.
Playing on Steam and I don't think I can recover the saves with Steam Cloud. But that's fine. I'll just move on to Okami then.
I'm of the mind that if you choose not to sacrifice your save data, then you're a monster, so you did the right thing.
It's not a cycle. YoRHa was a one time deal.
There was a "cycle" of perpetual war, however.
Apologies if I'm bumping the wrong thread but the Xbox OT is still marking spoilers and it will be easier to post here, unmarked.
Did anyone else not really like the androids at all? A2 just seemed like an angry "kill everything" person, 2B started off like that but mellowed a bit, and 9s started off a bit mellower and then went full mental "kill everything".
So many times they make random side quips like "how do machines have emotions!?" and never ONCE (as far as I saw) do they acknowledge that they are machines too (but they happily believe they have emotions)...I.e. they completely miss the irony of their views, despite it being shoved in their faces time and again. The fact that their consciousness's are in black boxes, harvested out of machines minds, just really rams that home.
I'm sure it's a deliberate choice by the devs, but it just wound me up through the game and it meant I didn't really care about any of them. I think in ending A I was a little sad that 9s got killed, but after that, I didn't really care what happened to any of them. So 2B's death (I assume meant to be a fairly shocking/poignant moment?) didn't really bother me at all.
The only ones I actually felt sorry for were Popola and Devola, and how various sets of the twins were mistreated because they happen to look like another set of the twins that did something wrong.
It's a great game, and it covers a lot of themes, but I think sometimes those themes were counter-acting each other.
On the "plus" side, I spent a lot of time in that game killing things that I didn't really want to kill, or felt sorry for, purely because they looked different from me and someone else had told them to kill me....so a good illustration of the shittiness of wars.
Did anyone else not really like the androids at all? A2 just seemed like an angry "kill everything" person, 2B started off like that but mellowed a bit, and 9s started off a bit mellower and then went full mental "kill everything".
So many times they make random side quips like "how do machines have emotions!?" and never ONCE (as far as I saw) do they acknowledge that they are machines too (but they happily believe they have emotions)...I.e. they completely miss the irony of their views, despite it being shoved in their faces time and again. The fact that their consciousness's are in black boxes, harvested out of machines minds, just really rams that home.
I'm sure it's a deliberate choice by the devs, but it just wound me up through the game and it meant I didn't really care about any of them. I think in ending A I was a little sad that 9s got killed, but after that, I didn't really care what happened to any of them. So 2B's death (I assume meant to be a fairly shocking/poignant moment?) didn't really bother me at all.
The only ones I actually felt sorry for were Popola and Devola, and how various sets of the twins were mistreated because they happen to look like another set of the twins that did something wrong.
It's a great game, and it covers a lot of themes, but I think sometimes those themes were counter-acting each other.
On the "plus" side, I spent a lot of time in that game killing things that I didn't really want to kill, or felt sorry for, purely because they looked different from me and someone else had told them to kill me....so a good illustration of the shittiness of wars.
The androids are hypocritical yes, despite not being "human" themselves. Their programming is such that they have a hard time accepting anything outside of those views, which is why they are so resistant to it. Imagine trying to get someone who grew up in and around the KKK to accept black people as people.
9S I find as a very sympathetic character because I understand what it's like to have things torn from you and not understand your place in the world. He's an android so it's a little different, but it's obvious that he was written as being coded for mental illness, like being Bipolar. As someone who is Bipolar it was easy to put myself in his shoes.
Replaying the game after finishing it really brings a lot of 2B's character to light. How unsure she is of things, he tightly wound she is, how secretive she is, all to mask her pain.
A2 deserved to be as angry as she was as well, essentially a test subject designed to be abandoned solely to collect data. And not just herself, but the other YoRHa she was attached to. This is more revealed in the Stage Play from a few years ago.
9S I find as a very sympathetic character because I understand what it's like to have things torn from you and not understand your place in the world. He's an android so it's a little different, but it's obvious that he was written as being coded for mental illness, like being Bipolar. As someone who is Bipolar it was easy to put myself in his shoes.
Replaying the game after finishing it really brings a lot of 2B's character to light. How unsure she is of things, he tightly wound she is, how secretive she is, all to mask her pain.
A2 deserved to be as angry as she was as well, essentially a test subject designed to be abandoned solely to collect data. And not just herself, but the other YoRHa she was attached to. This is more revealed in the Stage Play from a few years ago.
I can see a lot of that, in a logical sense, but I don't *feel* it. I just found the hypocrisy so big and all-encompassing that I couldn't really get past it.
This is a very hyperbolic comparison, but using the example you gave, I'd have a hard time feeling sorry for the kkk.
Anyway, I'm not trying to say you're wrong or anything, as it's just my personal view, and I appreciate your view.
I also have to confess I don't know a lot about being Bipolar, but I really ought to.
I guess a related comment is that I never really felt like the androids were "programmed" . They seemed to have a wide margin of free will, including falling in and out of love etc. I don't *think* every 9s model would fall for operator 210?
Its an interesting point as well, that society and culture around us also "programme" us! (setting norms of behaviour, expectations etc) .
This is a very hyperbolic comparison, but using the example you gave, I'd have a hard time feeling sorry for the kkk.
Anyway, I'm not trying to say you're wrong or anything, as it's just my personal view, and I appreciate your view.
I also have to confess I don't know a lot about being Bipolar, but I really ought to.
I guess a related comment is that I never really felt like the androids were "programmed" . They seemed to have a wide margin of free will, including falling in and out of love etc. I don't *think* every 9s model would fall for operator 210?
Its an interesting point as well, that society and culture around us also "programme" us! (setting norms of behaviour, expectations etc) .
The androids have free will in so far as they can think for themselves and have feelings, but they're designed for one purpose and that is to take earth back from the machines. Deviating from that is how you get an E-Type on your ass. The YoRHa Betrayers sidequest is an example, they abandoned their duty and command is like "they need to be captured" but when you encounter them the order is quickly made to "exterminate", which 9S questions, 2B doesn't (because of course she wouldn't).
Even 2B, who loves 9S and is pained every time she has to do her Type E job regarding him, still does it when she has to. Her free will in that regard is lacking.
They're a bit more lenient with 9S because of how good that series is at accomplishing its data collection goals, so he's more curious and open about things. That's why 2E is assigned as a failsafe should he go too far, obviously.
It's all very grey, there's really no good or evil when it comes to YoRHa. The ones who know the truth (like the Commander and maybe 2B) know they're hypocrites, but they believe that being a hypocrite is worth it when the other option is despair at the realization that their Gods (humans) are no longer waiting for them.
Even 2B, who loves 9S and is pained every time she has to do her Type E job regarding him, still does it when she has to. Her free will in that regard is lacking.
They're a bit more lenient with 9S because of how good that series is at accomplishing its data collection goals, so he's more curious and open about things. That's why 2E is assigned as a failsafe should he go too far, obviously.
It's all very grey, there's really no good or evil when it comes to YoRHa. The ones who know the truth (like the Commander and maybe 2B) know they're hypocrites, but they believe that being a hypocrite is worth it when the other option is despair at the realization that their Gods (humans) are no longer waiting for them.
Hmm interesting. I've read a fair bit online but I haven't figured out who setup yorha, designed the androids and gave them their programming/orders. Was it earlier versions of androids? Or humans before they died out?
And as far as I can see none of the androids stopped fighting because they realised they're identical to the machines? They all stopped for other reasons.
I still struggle to reconcile free will versus orders. I guess it is a classic military dilemma (which I have no experience of)
And as far as I can see none of the androids stopped fighting because they realised they're identical to the machines? They all stopped for other reasons.
I still struggle to reconcile free will versus orders. I guess it is a classic military dilemma (which I have no experience of)
- The creators of YoRHa are still around, iirc. There is text in the game where it insinuates that jackass is hunting them down.
- YoRHa was created by androids after the extinction of humanity.
- YoRHa was created due to moral in androids being dangerously low. Basically its a whole "religion being created as a means to make meaning in a populous when none else exists" idea.
- YoRHa are identical to machines, not the androids (the black box is literally repurposed machine cores)
Humans designed previous (unknown, forgotten) androids to assist with the Gestalt project, and those androids continued to live on/develop other androids after humans went extinct.
Some unknown android, or some unknown android organization founded YoRHa with the goal of providing the surface-dwelling Androids with a purpose (defending Humanity), and the YoRHa were ultimately planned to self-destruct (die due to the logic virus as we witness) to keep the truth hidden, ultimately propping up a mythical Moon-dwelling Humanity that'll function as a god to the remaining androids.
Seeing as 9S finds out that Black Boxes are basically repurposed Machine Cores, we could probably say YoRHa came into being after the alien invasion.
Regarding the YoRHa units' hypocrisy, I fucking love it honestly. 9S and 2B risk their lives to fulfil some fetch quest important to someone, a machine goes "Thank you so much!!!", 9S goes "No fucking problem buddy. By the way you're a machine so you can't think or feel so fuck you"
I think we can all agree real humans can be so hypocritical as well.
9S and 2B being unable to get over the conditioning quite literally built into them makes for two very interesting characters, IMO.
Ah thanks both, I was thinking yorha and androids were identical, but that makes sense. There is a comment in the text about the black boxes that is was considered inhumane (a loaded word) to use "proper" ai in the yorha units. So the "normal" androids are just as hypocritical about yorha, as yorha are to the robots.
Really interesting to get more info and different views to thanks to you all posting about an "old" game.
Really interesting to get more info and different views to thanks to you all posting about an "old" game.
So where does the series go after automata?
I'd really like to see the human race come back somehow.
That, or the adventures of grimoire weiss before he became a book.
I'd really like to see the human race come back somehow.
That, or the adventures of grimoire weiss before he became a book.
Machines will be tryng to figurate out how to bring back humans, somehow they will make dragons to born and will fight ones against each others [Queen beast strikes back] they will send robots through different lines to see how all history happened [Hello Accord] and they will mistakenly create the great collapse in drakengard.
Dont copy me, Yoko Taro-san.
Dont copy me, Yoko Taro-san.
I think this is a perfect point to leave it, if I'm gonna be honest with you.
Thematically, Automata really brought many aspects consistent throughout Taro's work into a (great) conclusion.
I think it's better to never know if the ark gets anywhere or not, as well.
If anything, I'd like a (localized) light novel or something that details what actually went on immediately after the Queen Beast's appearance over Tokyo.
Big bump, but I finally got back to it (having only played the intro almost 2 years ago) and played through the game this week.
I really loved E's credits sequence once I accepted help. Audibly said, "Oh this is super cool." I am very happy that the game gripped me enough this time to push through all the endings, because it does reward you for seeking it out.
Having just recently played through Control, I found this so much more fascinating and "what the fuck is going on (I have to keep going to find out)". I enjoyed Control as well, but where I thought it was going pluck at similar themes, it didn't really. Nier presented it time and time again, which I ate up.
I didn't to a lot of side missions, I know I'll have missed out on moments. I'll be looking up the Emil quest line as I just didn't want to invest searching out how to do it all.
edit: One question, after reading through this thread and not having played the first game. When you're hacking as 9S, were any of the black enemies supposed to represent the lost human souls? Or was it just programmed defense. Or perhaps when it's just the black cubes?
9S' termination by 2B didn't affect me either, but in the moment I was stuck in the thinking that he can just come back. I understood that meant he wouldn't be "this" 9S but I didn't like the character up to that point so it was just my selfish human nature I guess. :)
The Popola/Devola arc was definitely one that hit home, I enjoyed how their story was handled.
I really loved E's credits sequence once I accepted help. Audibly said, "Oh this is super cool." I am very happy that the game gripped me enough this time to push through all the endings, because it does reward you for seeking it out.
Having just recently played through Control, I found this so much more fascinating and "what the fuck is going on (I have to keep going to find out)". I enjoyed Control as well, but where I thought it was going pluck at similar themes, it didn't really. Nier presented it time and time again, which I ate up.
I didn't to a lot of side missions, I know I'll have missed out on moments. I'll be looking up the Emil quest line as I just didn't want to invest searching out how to do it all.
edit: One question, after reading through this thread and not having played the first game. When you're hacking as 9S, were any of the black enemies supposed to represent the lost human souls? Or was it just programmed defense. Or perhaps when it's just the black cubes?
The bold was the part that irked me. I thought there would be a bigger scene of struggle to cope with that fact, given how they've acted the entire game up to that point.
9S' termination by 2B didn't affect me either, but in the moment I was stuck in the thinking that he can just come back. I understood that meant he wouldn't be "this" 9S but I didn't like the character up to that point so it was just my selfish human nature I guess. :)
The Popola/Devola arc was definitely one that hit home, I enjoyed how their story was handled.
That's a bit of a Taro thing, often moments that would be elaborated on/lingered upon pass somewhat quickly in his games.
Yeah, I enjoyed the game, but some of the behaviour stuff just didn't make any sense (to me)...
Glad I played it through though.
The black nodes you fight in hacking sequences are just hacking defenses.
Humanity had long since gone extinct and have no presence in the game.
No I don't think, they're just program imo but who knows, is there something that makes you think that ?
Everything is a metaphor about human. Androids are human, the machines are human. Yoko Taro doesn't believe we, as humanity, learn from our mistakes, we believe our ancestors to be stupid, androids do the same to machines as they do already between each other.
Plus I think you give too much importance about the effect it should have to learn that they have blackboxes. IIRC is pretty late, 2B is already dead, she's the important part for 9S, the rest for him is the background.
I see, just seems a bit odd when there are other moments that are given quite a bit of time.
I'm glad I did too, but I also would understand people who don't want to go through all of the effort, which is a shame. I flew through it to be honest, just because I don't get through a lot of games and got A, B, C, D, E, G, M in 20 hours.
No need to spoiler tag that we're in the open thread, and I understood that part. My question is if they were a nod of representation to the black enemies (that are no longer human) from the first game after reading the thread.
Well learning that they're just machines as well, giving added meaningless to this forever war and their entire motivation would seem like a pretty big breaking point. I mean A2 didn't know that right? That whole engagement between 9S and A2 at the end just seemed a bit undercooked. You can certainly say that she can't convince 9S of anything, so why bother trying, but it ended up feeling a little rushed to that choice/fight for me.
Anyway it's a minor gripe on the overall story.
I think you're giving too much importance to the black box thing, it's just an addendum, the icing on the shit cake, it doesn't change much.. Neither A2 or 9S took meaning in that war, for A2 it was revenge for her only friends until she fused with 2B and for 9S its 2B. Those are the meaningful things to them. The breaking points already happened to them. The war is just the background. We all live in war (competition for the benefit of a few) yet it's not The game speaks about existentialism, the black box thing his essentialism. The game speaks about losing your goals and so to become meaningless. They're already there. And the end just shows that, why speak, they're both ready for it to end.
A2 try to speak to 9S because she doesn't want to kill which she doesn't if you choose her, 2B is also now an important part of her, "2B" could be the one talking, she loves him why not try to reason him, a normal human behavior for people you love.
I'm not trying to convince you or anything, just how I feel why it happens like that. but maybe I'm rationalizing too much and they simply didn't had the time or budget to do more, the sequences before that was already a lot. But I never considered there was an issue with that scene. The voice acting at this moment is just too good.
I disagree, endings are often (too) short but otherwise all the themes are pretty hammered in in its games, which is natural as Japanese tends to be pretty heavy handed in their media imo.
While in the original all of humanity is effectively gone at the end you have a sort of similar moment of character development between NiER and 9s. They both get a moment to realize they weren't killing monsters but equals (humans in original, machines that are made of the same stuff for 9s) and both characters are just so defeated by this point or have come so far they can't really grapple with it so they just sort of ignore the damage their actions caused.
I don't think he writes much about that fact because there really wouldn't be much of a satisfying scene with either character. They are too far gone 9s especially and with the amount of torment he's going through.
Hacking is hacking I think, I don't think there's a greater meaning although like anything else in NiER you can certain throw your own interpretation