People are calling us rapists and murderers.
No it's not. There's no need for propaganda when most people are pro-government. It's a development program, it's only propaganda to the westerners.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Nicki Minaj is going to perform in Saudi Arabia (she pulls out)
- Thread starter Neoraxis
- Start date
Good to see your apparent support for a brutal, autocratic, right-wing regime. Totally helps your "why can't you separate a country from its government?" angle
I never said I supported them, don't put words into my mouth. Vision 2030 is helping the country and people living here whether you like it or not. Heck we're getting Nicki Minaj.
Since "most" of the posts in this thread are racist, I'd say it should be easy for you to present the receipts.
Also, good job on the thread derail, which was probably your intention from the get go.
Everything said against Saudi Arabia in this thread is well deserved. It's a shitty misogynistic country that's a blight on humanity.
I apologize. It seemed that way from my end the way you downplayed the point, sorry for the assumption.
Although, again, this completely invalidates your "separate the country from the government" line.
It's the equivalent of Minaj performing in a concert paid for by Trump, for the explicit purpose of legitimizing Trump's regime and the MAGA 2020 plan.
Most people are talking about the Saudi regime. Some of that is being generalized to the Saudi people (which I'll grant is wrong). But that's not "racist" because Saudis aren't a race. Nor is it general bigotry because no one is saying Saudis are bad because of inherent characteristics, and again almost all of the criticism is directed towards the Saudi regime.
What people are advocating is no different than the BDS movement. Because Saudi is a particularly bad actor on the global stage in regards to human rights they feel that it is better for artists to have nothing to do with the country because at a minimum is can be used as propaganda to justify those human rights violations.
Clearly you are more than welcome to criticize the US for it's own bad acting and human rights violations, and call for a boycott movement there as well. But to bluntly, with no evidence and using the word wrong, say people are being "racist" and whataboutisming the US is a poor way to discuss a topic productively.
The productive thing to do is to acknowledge the criticisms of the government and concerns about propaganda, but differentiate the people and counter argue that perhaps boycotting is an inefficient strategy to enact change.
Eh no because she's not from Saudi Arabia. A more apt comparison would be a kpop group or British singers performing at a trump concert. She's completely divorced from their government and what they do has no effect on her or her family
People boycotted South Africa and people are boycotting the West Bank now. I don't see why Saudi Arabia should be exempt.
They live here. Not to mention there are plenty of artists that have been overtly critical of the US.
The Saudi regime's been promoting its new approach to cultural openness at a pace that doesn't really equate social reforms from within. To the outsider, having concerts, bringing Nicki Minaj and finally allowing women to drive would give the illusion of change but the situation of woman and deep enshrinement of religious scholars is still as rampant as ever. They've gone from 0 to a 100 entertainment-wise with their 2030 vision in a way that doesn't follow up with real-life implications.
The Kafala and Wilaya systems, as well as many repressive legal institutions stil, exist. Add to that the hypocrisy of the political elite and wealthy Saudis who are out of the vicinity of punishment for acts that would incriminate regular Saudis.
The Kafala and Wilaya systems, as well as many repressive legal institutions stil, exist. Add to that the hypocrisy of the political elite and wealthy Saudis who are out of the vicinity of punishment for acts that would incriminate regular Saudis.
Would you care to elaborate on that? I haven't noticed any racism in this thread.
The biggest difference between the US and Saudi Arabia, South Africa and other oppressive regimes is that the US's current abuses are, to a very notable and traceable extent, a product of its own citizens' making. When you vote for the Republican Party or decide to stay home because the Democratic frontrunner doesn't meet your liberal litmus test, things like concentration camps, draconian abortion laws, threats to eliminate government-funded health care, inaction on gun control, and etc. all slowly but surely become reality. In the US, voting is a power that can and will lead to change. But in Saudi Arabia, the average person just doesn't have the same clout to push for change.
I've been to Saudi Arabia 3 times (all before Khashoggi) to accompany Japanese game creators there (one of them was a woman, even!). The reason they agreed to go is because they simply wanted to meet ordinary Saudi Arabian youth and gamers. They know Arab gamers are passionate through interactions with people from other GCC/Arab nations, so they didn't want to pass up the opportunity to meet and potentially inspire these people, many of whom want to become game creators themselves. None of them supported the terrible things their government was doing. A handful of them even supported things like LGBT rights in the West, others were in the closet themselves. Others wanted to flee to the West or Japan themselves one day. I don't think these ordinary people should be forgotten.
Not saying that my situation is the same as Nicki Minaj or the WWE's, but it's worth thinking about it from that lens.
I've been to Saudi Arabia 3 times (all before Khashoggi) to accompany Japanese game creators there (one of them was a woman, even!). The reason they agreed to go is because they simply wanted to meet ordinary Saudi Arabian youth and gamers. They know Arab gamers are passionate through interactions with people from other GCC/Arab nations, so they didn't want to pass up the opportunity to meet and potentially inspire these people, many of whom want to become game creators themselves. None of them supported the terrible things their government was doing. A handful of them even supported things like LGBT rights in the West, others were in the closet themselves. Others wanted to flee to the West or Japan themselves one day. I don't think these ordinary people should be forgotten.
Not saying that my situation is the same as Nicki Minaj or the WWE's, but it's worth thinking about it from that lens.
She pulls out
Good for her. I wonder who told her this would be easy money, rather than a PR headache she ultimately won't be getting paid for?
I just love how you guys think these pop stars are above taking money from the Saudi's. Their money is just as good as anyone else's (moreso, since they have much more to freely spend).
stop ascribing your value system to strangers.
stop ascribing your value system to strangers.
Awesome of her to pull out.
I hope this will persuade other performers considering a show in Saudi Arabia not to.
I hope this will persuade other performers considering a show in Saudi Arabia not to.
Oooooohhh
Yikes
Issa said:
I'm afraid that plan has been dismembered.
BTW your entire thread activity has been absolutely bizarre. You don't support the regime but are enthusiastically determined to say most of your countrymen do?
And you know what Vision 2030 is intended to do, right?
And which "race" are the people who continue to qualify posts with "regime" and "mbs" are racist against? The race of the WaPo journalist they're lamenting? How does that work. Are they racist against PK Botha? Or could that be something else?
Last edited:
KSA is only 100 times worse than what is happening even under trump now. Women are slaves, people are beheaded, immigrants are slave labor and they chop up journalists. Plus financing terrorism, war in Yemen, trying to stir a war between US and Iran.
That's a damn good statement. You don't get something like "after better educating myself on the issues" from most statementskke that from celebrities.
So much for the "she's being forced to do this because she's broke" guy earlier in the thread.
So much for the "she's being forced to do this because she's broke" guy earlier in the thread.
Im not sure whats up with saudi arabia, but if it is about money I think it is understandable. Everybody has their own priority, to me money is
Perhaps I'm thinking of someone else with a similar avatar.. but aren't you gay?
Gay people are not treated well in Saudi Arabia, to say the least.
I am. But i actually dont mind that much because thats her problem. Aside of that, i dont even want to visit those countries along with dubai, turkey, iran, and yeah things around that line.
Good on Nikki. Hope it causes a wave of artists never being able to do this.
Saudi royals need to go.
Saudi royals need to go.
I never said I don't support the regime. There's no freedom of speech thus I never speak my opinion, I'm just mentioning facts.
Again for you it's propaganda because you aren't seeing the benefits of it. Only an idiot would think Saudi is gonna change politically.
People are not specifically talking about the regime or MBS, they are saying Saudi and the country. That's mostly the people not the government.
Don't know why people are giving minaj credit really. She's backed out due to the bad PR, not because of some epiphany. Some message written by her marketing people doesn't change that.
Well, the US also finances terrorism, Obama authorized the war in Yemen, it's American bombs that's been dropped on Yemeni civilians, and the current US administration also wants a war in Iran to help their buddies Israel/Saudi Arabia and to continue funding the American defense companies.
No doubt, Saudi Arabia is a theocratic, authoritarian regime with a horrible human right's records, the biggest exporter of terrorism around the world and Minaj is right to boycott. There's no comparison to the US here even with Trump. But on foreign policy the US is as bad as the Saudis.
And I will also say that Saudi Arabia is not a democracy. For the most part the people living there don't have a choice on who rules there. Dissenters are tortured and killed off in terrible ways.