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Deleted member 1659

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This isn't a crypto thread.

My crypto accounts are all paying out staking rewards gave me some extra money to invest in the world of NFTs so I started dipping my toes into that space recently. I only started so I'm not as knowledgeable as I'm sure many of you are so I didn't spend much money on them. I just set aside a few units of my crypto per a month to look for NFTs.

This is mine: https://pool.pm/98dc68b04026544619a251bc01aad2075d28433524ac36cbc75599a1.hosk

For those new to the NFT arena like myself, it can be tempting to look for NFTs that net you millions of dollars off the bat but those instances are rare. You don't need to spend that much money right away. The ones I have for instance were less than $1000.
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
Official Staff Communication
Thread rebooted. The original version of this thread got off to an awful start: NFTs are not a banned topic and neither is crypto. Hostility towards the OP for making this thread is unacceptable. If you don't want to engage the topic, you don't have to post. Drive-by trolling is not okay. Towards the end there was starting to be some actual discussion but the first couple pages had almost none. Let's have the discussion from the start this time please.
 

Yankee Ruin X

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,684
I just have 2 NFTs, 1 I got which meant I got to get whitelisted for a presale for Scream and the other is part of the ETH Rock collection, I was lucky to get it for just $30k before prices skyrocketed.
 

Deleted member 2317

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I don't get high on saving-image-as so no, I don't have any NFTs, sorry, but looking at examples makes me feel like rolling up cash and smoking it.
 

SideMatt

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
874
Official Staff Communication
Thread rebooted. The original version of this thread got off to an awful start: NFTs are not a banned topic and neither is crypto. Hostility towards the OP for making this thread is unacceptable. If you don't want to engage the topic, you don't have to post. Drive-by trolling is not okay. Towards the end there was starting to be some actual discussion but the first couple pages had almost none. Let's have the discussion from the start this time please.
Lol amazing
 

Deleted member 4461

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Incidentally, I see some people I respect trying to do NFTs the "right" way, but I still can't understand the purpose of them for the life of me.

Stories artists who care deeply about people and researched the environmental impact. And they usually give away physical merch or something tangible with it. So I'm not worried so much about the damage - I just don't get it.

Outside of gaming, that is. It makes sense in gaming, kinda, but not really for traditional art.

I am, however, super open to hearing the buyer's perspective. Speculative market aside, why buy?
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 1659

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Are there "penny stock" NFT's? What the general floor in terms of NFT pricing? What drives pricing higher on most NFT's?


Yeah there are plenty of cheap NFTs. The drivers of NFT pricing:

- Cost to produce. It depends on the platform but there's a "gas" fee for minting an NFT and a platform will charge a fee to mint them for you.
- Supply and demand, much like anything else.
 

dred

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,532
I only own one NFT, from a project called Stellar Hood. Here's the concept:

Every single Stellar Hood NFT of the total 6505 is based on real astronomical data. Measured astrophysical properties of the stars and planets were used to create the NFTs. No thousands and thousands of random generated NFTs but only the real determined celestial bodies.

Here's my star: https://stellarhood.com/getNFT.php?o=6008

I bought it for the novelty value, basically. I find the concept of NFT's very interesting, but it's obvious that it's in a bubble right now.

Bonus NFT project I find interesting: https://www.beyondrockets.city/
 

TheCthultist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
New York
I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all, but I just cannot see the appeal in any of those images…

sorry OP, but your collection isn't inspiring me to change my stance on NFTs.
 

sfedai0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,937
OP, just tells us which NFT is the equivalent of shitcoins and cost pennies because those are the only ones I would consider "investing" in.
 

Possum Armada

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Oct 25, 2017
7,630
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Ottaro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,525
Incidentally, I see some people I respect trying to do NFTs the "right" way, but I still can't understand the purpose of them for the life of me.

Stories artists who care deeply about people and researched the environmental impact. And they usually give away physical merch or something tangible with it. So I'm not worried so much about the damage - I just don't get it.

Outside of gaming, that is. It makes sense in gaming, kinda, but not really for traditional art.

I am, however, super open to hearing the buyer's perspective. Speculative market aside, why buy?
I don't own any NFTs and personally find them a bit silly, but I think it helps to view them as trading cards more than anything else.

Anyone can print off a picture of a pokemon card, but the one with perceived value is the one actually printed by Pokemon Co.
Same with NFTs. The NFT's distributed by the actual artists, or the MLB NFTs actually distributed by Topps, etc. should be the ones with perceived value. This doesn't stop scammers of course, same deal with people making counterfeit pokemon cards or using artists' work on shirt-printing sites.

When any artist sells an NFT of their work, theyre not selling an authentic original of the art, they're selling a digital trading card collectible version of it. What that's worth is up to the people buying it I guess, monetarily and psychologically. It's all value pulled from thin air, so I'm skeptical of it, but that's true of any collectible market.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 1659

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I don't own any NFTs and personally find them a bit silly, but I think it helps to view them as trading cards more than anything else.

Anyone can print off a picture of a pokemon card, but the one with perceived value is the one actually printed by Pokemon Co.
Same with NFTs. The NFT's distributed by the actual artists, or the MLB NFTs actually distributed by Topps, etc. should be the ones with perceived value. This doesn't stop scammers of course, same deal with people making counterfeit pokemon cards or using artists' work on shirt-printing sites.

When any artist sells an NFT of their work, theyre not selling an authentic original of the art, they're selling a digital trading card collectible version of it. What that's worth is up to the people buying it I guess, monetarily and psychologically. It's all value pulled from thin air, so I'm skeptical of it, but that's true of any collectible market.

Spot on. I feel like people who come from the world of sports collecting might have an easier time wrapping their minds around the concept of NFTs. I was surprised at how hostile the first thread got towards me.
 

Sirpopopop

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Oct 23, 2017
794
I've been digging Rarity a lot on FTM. The work people have been doing with that gamified NFT is amazing.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,081
Halifax, NS
I don't own any NFTs and personally find them a bit silly, but I think it helps to view them as trading cards more than anything else.

Anyone can print off a picture of a pokemon card, but the one with perceived value is the one actually printed by Pokemon Co.
Same with NFTs. The NFT's distributed by the actual artists, or the MLB NFTs actually distributed by Topps, etc. should be the ones with perceived value. This doesn't stop scammers of course, same deal with people making counterfeit pokemon cards or using artists' work on shirt-printing sites.

When any artist sells an NFT of their work, theyre not selling an authentic original of the art, they're selling a digital trading card collectible version of it. What that's worth is up to the people buying it I guess, monetarily and psychologically. It's all value pulled from thin air, so I'm skeptical of it, but that's true of any collectible market.

The analogy falters a bit though when you consider that when you buy a trading card, you actually bought a physical, tangible object that is then unbound from the means in which it was printed/sold. No one is in control of the future of that card beyond me. I own it, the object itself, and can do with it as I wish. I could just store it somewhere, put it on display for people to see. I could hoard it in a box and literally no one could see it. I could re-sell it, using any currency I wish, or even barter with it. I could roll it up and smoke it if I really wanted to.

But I'm not granted all those same rights with an NFT. The object is essentially bound to the server in which it's uploaded to. I don't own that data, and I have no ability to change it. And all I'm purchasing when getting an NFT, is the link to where that data is. I have to hope that link never dies (which in 99.99% of cases is outside my control), or else I literally am left with nothing. Is it upon the seller to make good on the fact that I no longer have access to the thing that I paid for if it goes dead? Or is that the person who minted it who's legally responsible? Or is the reality that I paid "for the link, not the thing it links to" stop me from having any recourse in asserting my supposed ownership of something if it vanishes?

I don't see how this is any sort of improvement over just paying an artist for their art directly. I give artist money, they send me a file. That transaction represents a legal contract that I am the owner of a copy of something they produced. Hell if we wanted to get real fancy, we could actually write up a proper contract to enforce that. And then I "could" just do whatever I want with that file. I could upload it for the world to see, which yes, would allow people to right click save it and copy it for themselves, just as NFTs allow now. I could keep it to myself never showing the world, or re-using it however I wish (although possibly within the bounds of a sales contract if there was one).

Instead we have an incredibly convoluted system designed to lock the assets into the ecosystem so desperate to prove itself valuable, while simultaneously not actually granting you as many (or ANY) legal rights to the thing you bought as you would have if you actually just bought it.

Nothing is stopping me from commissioning an artist for a picture, and showing the picture to the world, with legal proof that I own it (and that the artist has proof they could legally sell it). What did NFTs do to improve that?
 

Shedinja

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,815
I don't own any NFTs and personally find them a bit silly, but I think it helps to view them as trading cards more than anything else.

Anyone can print off a picture of a pokemon card, but the one with perceived value is the one actually printed by Pokemon Co.
Same with NFTs. The NFT's distributed by the actual artists, or the MLB NFTs actually distributed by Topps, etc. should be the ones with perceived value. This doesn't stop scammers of course, same deal with people making counterfeit pokemon cards or using artists' work on shirt-printing sites.

When any artist sells an NFT of their work, theyre not selling an authentic original of the art, they're selling a digital trading card collectible version of it. What that's worth is up to the people buying it I guess, monetarily and psychologically. It's all value pulled from thin air, so I'm skeptical of it, but that's true of any collectible market.
"Of course", so if NFTs create yet another avenue for artists to have their work stolen, without solving any problems or improving the way people have already been directly paying digital artists, what's the point?
 

Sirpopopop

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Oct 23, 2017
794
"Of course", so if NFTs create yet another avenue for artists to have their work stolen, without solving any problems or improving the way people have already been directly paying digital artists, what's the point?

For artists to sell their NFTs on marketplaces and attach a digital fingerprint that allows for the easy transfer of ownership for their works.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,685
here
got this one in a digital box of digital wheaties

kxPllih.jpg
 

Sirpopopop

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Oct 23, 2017
794
The analogy falters a bit though when you consider that when you buy a trading card, you actually bought a physical, tangible object that is then unbound from the means in which it was printed/sold. No one is in control of the future of that card beyond me. I own it, the object itself, and can do with it as I wish. I could just store it somewhere, put it on display for people to see. I could hoard it in a box and literally no one could see it. I could re-sell it, using any currency I wish, or even barter with it. I could roll it up and smoke it if I really wanted to.

Do you know what the difference between an ERC-20 token and an ERC-721 token is?
 

trashbandit

Member
Dec 19, 2019
3,910
I don't own any NFTs and personally find them a bit silly, but I think it helps to view them as trading cards more than anything else.

Anyone can print off a picture of a pokemon card, but the one with perceived value is the one actually printed by Pokemon Co.
Same with NFTs. The NFT's distributed by the actual artists, or the MLB NFTs actually distributed by Topps, etc. should be the ones with perceived value. This doesn't stop scammers of course, same deal with people making counterfeit pokemon cards or using artists' work on shirt-printing sites.

When any artist sells an NFT of their work, theyre not selling an authentic original of the art, they're selling a digital trading card collectible version of it. What that's worth is up to the people buying it I guess, monetarily and psychologically. It's all value pulled from thin air, so I'm skeptical of it, but that's true of any collectible market.
Except the difference is that physical collectibles have built in, legitimate scarcity. NFTs are the legimization of people selling gold and items in MMOs; they're falsely labeling a store a value to a thing that is literally infinitely available and copiable by anyone who owns a computing device. The bytes comprising an NFT image that you "own" are identical bytes to the copy I can make by right clicking->save as.

NFTs are literal, actual bullshit, and it is appalling that we apparently cannot push back against a thread attempting to normalize them.
 

valuv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,604
Except the difference is that physical collectibles have built in, legitimate scarcity. NFTs are the legimization of people selling gold and items in MMOs; they're falsely labeling a store a value to a thing that is literally infinitely available and copiable by anyone who owns a computing device. The bytes comprising an NFT image that you "own" are identical bytes to the copy I can make by right clicking->save as.

NFTs are literal, actual bullshit, and it is appalling that we apparently cannot push back against a thread attempting to normalize them.
So what's the difference between the scarcity of an NFT which can be made a million times and a baseball card that can be made a million times?
 

TooFriendly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,028
This isn't a crypto thread.

My crypto accounts are all paying out staking rewards gave me some extra money to invest in the world of NFTs so I started dipping my toes into that space recently. I only started so I'm not as knowledgeable as I'm sure many of you are so I didn't spend much money on them. I just set aside a few units of my crypto per a month to look for NFTs.

This is mine: https://pool.pm/98dc68b04026544619a251bc01aad2075d28433524ac36cbc75599a1.hosk

For those new to the NFT arena like myself, it can be tempting to look for NFTs that net you millions of dollars off the bat but those instances are rare. You don't need to spend that much money right away. The ones I have for instance were less than $1000.

Is the NFT you own that coin drawing with a simpsons style character smirking or is that something else?

if it's that simpsons coin that says 'hosk' on it, why do you want to look at it for more than a moment let alone own it?
am I missing something basic here?
 

trashbandit

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Dec 19, 2019
3,910
So what's the difference between the scarcity of an NFT which can be made a million times and a baseball card that can be made a million times?
The difference is in the materials needed, the time needed, the factory needed, the people needed, the dyes needed, the distributors needed.
The scarcity of an NFT is a nonsense statement. Do you know how long it would take to copy an NFT a million times? It would take the time necessary to open up a text editor, write 20 lines of python, and then feed the url of an image to it and wait for it to finish a million download requests, which is to say, it would take you maybe a couple of hours. Compare that to everything required to manufacture and distribute physical cards.

I'll say it again because it's important: the scarcity of NFT artwork is literally not real. The only situation in which NFTs become genuinly scarce is one in which access to computers and kilobytes of memory become scarce, and if we've reached a point where that is the case no ones going to give a fuck about you "owning" a jpeg, let alone any non-physical currency.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
The difference is in the materials needed, the time needed, the factory needed, the people needed, the dyes needed, the distributors needed.
The scarcity of an NFT is a nonsense statement. Do you know how long it would take to copy an NFT a million times? It would take the time necessary to open up a text editor, write 20 lines of python, and then feed the url of an image to it and wait for it to finish a million download requests, which is to say, it would take you maybe an hour or two. Compare that to everything required to manufacture and distribute physical cards.

Ill say it again because it's important: the scarcity of NFT artwork is literally not real. The only situation in which NFTs become genuinly scarce is one in which access to computers and kilobytes of memory become scarce, and if we've reached a point where that is the case no ones going to give a fuck about you "owning" a jpeg, let alone any non-physical currency.

It's called narrative. When a narrative is pushed it's why it has value. Why does gold have value. All it is is a piece of metal like Aluminum and whatnot. Only reason it has value because humans perceive value in it due to the narrative it's scarce. That is all. There is no actual value it has it's just another element on the periodic table that is pushed by humans to have value.

Why does food have value? Every single person can grow it themselves but it has perceived value because humans determine it's value.

Why does Call of Duty make 1.5 Billion dollars off of skins. They have no use case other than ownership of some colorful design in a game and people buy that shit like it's gold.

Same concept here.
 

C.B.

Member
Oct 26, 2017
63
England
So what's the difference between the scarcity of an NFT which can be made a million times and a baseball card that can be made a million times?

The difference lies more in how the NFT market is quite predatory towards artists. The number of times my friends and I have been approached by people trying to get us to buy into the system while dangling a carrot in front of our faces because we "might blow up/go viral" is frustrating at best. Many artists don't want to make trading cards. They want to make the art of their choosing; and the fact that so many people are practically saying "your art has no value to me unless you put it through this scheme" or "I won't give you money outright but I'll buy it if you jump through these hoops" is a slap in the face that shows the only value they see in the work is the potential resale within their ecosystem. That is the main difference i see. I have been asked to do work that was royalty based before, and it always comes with an advancement. I'm never asked to make an investment on the product beyond the time/materials/ and my craft - never anything monetary. The trading card/NFT comparison does not work.
 

TooFriendly

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Oct 30, 2017
2,028
It's called narrative. When a narrative is pushed it's why it has value. Why does gold have value. All it is is a piece of metal like Aluminum and whatnot. Only reason it has value because humans perceive value in it due to the narrative it's scarce. That is all. There is no actual value it has it's just another element on the periodic table that is pushed by humans to have value.

Same concept here

Actually gold has a lot of uses, so does aluminium.
 

trashbandit

Member
Dec 19, 2019
3,910
It's called narrative. When a narrative is pushed it's why it has value. Why does gold have value. All it is is a piece of metal like Aluminum and whatnot. Only reason it has value because humans perceive value in it due to the narrative it's scarce. That is all. There is no actual value it has it's just another element on the periodic table that is pushed by humans to have value.

Why does food have value? Every single person can grow it themselves but it has perceived value because humans determine it's value.

Same concept here.
Except you can actually use metals for useful things, like making computers. The trading card analogy is more apt as it is something that has no intrinsic value, yet people still pay money for it. But even then, trading cards are actual physical scarcity going for them.

Humans do not determine the value of food arbitrarily, they do so through the labor required to grow it, the difficulty in growing it, the labor to transport it, the water required to grow it, and the scarcity of that food item. You can't just keep ignoring that there are many legitimate factors that go into determine the value of physical goods. If 5 people get into a room and "perceive" a copy of Super Mario 64 is worth a million dollars, that doesn't literally make it worth it that much and you'd have to be an ingrate to think so otherwise.
 
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Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,426
The object is essentially bound to the server in which it's uploaded to. I don't own that data, and I have no ability to change it. And all I'm purchasing when getting an NFT, is the link to where that data is. I have to hope that link never dies (which in 99.99% of cases is outside my control), or else I literally am left with nothing. Is it upon the seller to make good on the fact that I no longer have access to the thing that I paid for if it goes dead?

I honestly couldn't tell for a while there if you were just joking around and making a MMO or digital gaming purchases parallel (on ERA especially) to be funny on purpose, or if you were actually serious man. But no, I mean, you pretty much get it. If you look at what you said, thats not some boogeyman to the market or market participants these days. Everything from gaming to music streaming to TV streaming services use this model. Its not exactly foreign.

Edit: Wow this thread really isn't going to be able to resist the urge huh? Even with the thread warning? I even managed to get sucked into it a bit.
 

Avitus

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Oct 25, 2017
12,908
It's called narrative. When a narrative is pushed it's why it has value. Why does gold have value. All it is is a piece of metal like Aluminum and whatnot. Only reason it has value because humans perceive value in it due to the narrative it's scarce. That is all. There is no actual value it has it's just another element on the periodic table that is pushed by humans to have value.

This is.... amazingly wrong.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
Except you can actually use metals for useful things, like making computers. The trading card analogy is more apt as it is something that has no intrinsic value, yet people still pay money for it. But even then, trading cards are actual physical scarcity going for them.

And capitalism drives those prices due to perceived value by humans.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
This is.... amazingly wrong.

Elaborate. Human trade for the value of any given item. It's Captialism 101. There isn't some arbitrary robot that just determines a price and tells humans that that is the price they have to use. Humans perceive the value and through free market they determine the value. The value is driven by narrative mostly throught the scarcity narrative.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,081
Halifax, NS
I honestly couldn't tell for a while there if you were just joking around and making a MMO or digital gaming purchases parallel (on ERA especially) to be funny on purpose, or if you were actually serious man. But no, I mean, you pretty much get it. If you look at what you said, thats not some boogeyman to the market or market participants these days. Everything from gaming to music streaming to TV streaming services use this model. Its not exactly foreign.

The problem is that most of these services are very clearly trying to argue that you don't own these things. I don't pay for Disney+ thinking I now own the legal rights to everything on there for all of time, or even that they'll be there for as long as I'm subscribed.

But NFTs are being pushed as if you actually legally own a copy of "something", even though you aren't actually buying the object behind the NFT. The rights that ownership entails are so lacking with NFTs that I don't understand why people seem to think they're one and the same. Buying an NFT does not grant me the same amount of rights that "buying" an object should. it's all just a cover for people wanting to enable further cryptocurrency speculation on top of the rampant gambling that exists with it now, under the guise of giving artists more power.

Edit: Do you think the thread warning was about stopping any negative NFT talk? If it's open for discussion it's open for criticism.
 
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