PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]

Skeff · Mar 1, 2020

doncabesa said:
stick with the very last word you said. ps4 hardware back compat means they can only have a certain number of CU's unless they figure out a software solution like MS has.

This makes no sense what so ever, ps4 has 18 CU and pro has 36, so clearly they are able to emulate the ps4 on the pro. No reason they cant use the exact same method with more CU's. Worst case scenario is they have to go in 18 CU blocks so we will get a 54 CU machine.

VX1 · Mar 1, 2020

Interesting:

cc DrKeo , Colbert

Silencerx98 · Mar 1, 2020

doncabesa said:
stick with the very last word you said. ps4 hardware back compat means they can only have a certain number of CU's unless they figure out a software solution like MS has.

Then by that definition, 54 CU also makes a lot of sense because to achieve full PS4 compatibility, they need to disable two thirds of the GPU while for PS4 Pro, they need to disable a third. Or is 54 CU's not accepted because it doesn't fit the obligatory 36 CU's figure from Github that fits some people's narratives too well? It's a perfect split of 18 CU's with each configuration, care to refute?

Tappin Brews · Mar 1, 2020

ILikeFeet said:
man, I can't wait for the indie games

thats actually a pretty cool showcase for what RT can do. really transformative tech, next gen is going to rock

Deleted member 45460 · Mar 1, 2020

Skeff said:
This makes no sense what so ever, ps4 has 18 CU and pro has 36, so clearly they are able to emulate the ps4 on the pro. No reason they cant use the exact same method with more CU's. Worst case scenario is they have to go in 18 CU blocks so we will get a 54 CU machine.

From what I've read and been told they'd need to go 72, because they have to turn it off in a way that doesn't work with 54. So Sony would have to wait for big navi, or hopefully they've worked out a software solution because otherwise they're hamstrung hardware wise for a long time.

Md Ray · Mar 1, 2020

SlipperyFishes said:
The only issue with that is that this is the only site which contains this source. It was quoted as taking place in a press briefing yet when you google that phrase there are only four search results, one of which is Neogaf and another that scrapes the exact same article word for word.

not saying it can't be true but placing faith in something with no corroborating second hand reports is not great for facts

"BOTH THE NEXT-GEN XBOX AND PLAYSTATION WILL SUPPORT HARDWARE RAYTRACING WITH RADEON NATIVELY" - Google Search

You're right. I'm trying to verify and dig a little deeper into this for more info myself.

zombiejames · Mar 1, 2020

RT is going to be a bigger game-changer than most people realize. Especially when we're dealing with exclusives where those games can totally throw out older methods of lighting and shadow casting. Think of all those man-hours developers could save or put towards other areas of their games. Exciting times.

Md Ray · Mar 1, 2020

VX1 said:
Interesting:

cc DrKeo , Colbert

Thanks for this. Interesting indeed.

AegonSnake · Mar 1, 2020

zombiejames said:
RT is going to be a bigger game-changer than most people realize. Especially when we're dealing with exclusives where those games can totally throw out older methods of lighting and shadow casting. Think of all those man-hours developers could save or put towards other areas of their games. Exciting times.

metro devs have already confirmed to DF that they are moving away from standard rasterization techniques. their next game will be RT only.

Tappin Brews · Mar 1, 2020

tusharngf said:
This channel is gold. Full RT watch dogs. Better than e3

Watch Dogs Ultra 4K graphic | Better than E3 | RAYTRACING | Natural & Realistic Lighting mod

Watch Dogs Ultra 4K graphic | Better than E3 | RAYTRACING | Natural & Realistic Lighting modalready better than watch dogs 3??!Ultra settings ,Mod Textures, ...

youtu.be

the environmental lighting looks stunning, but it doesnt seem like reflections are on. LOTS of things missing shadows, building windows look faked, etc

Vimto · Mar 1, 2020

AegonSnake said:
metro devs have already confirmed to DF that they are moving away from standard rasterization techniques. their next game will be RT only.

Isnt current RT a hybrid solution and co-exist with rasterization? I doubt current HW can run all RT game

chris 1515 · Mar 1, 2020

AegonSnake said:
metro devs have already confirmed to DF that they are moving away from standard rasterization techniques. their next game will be RT only.

I think they will go full hybrid raytracing not raytracing only. This is big because doing two versions of a game one with rasterization and the other hybrid raytracing is difficult and tons of work.

KORNdog · Mar 1, 2020

Silencerx98 said:
Then by that definition, 54 CU also makes a lot of sense because to achieve full PS4 compatibility, they need to disable two thirds of the GPU while for PS4 Pro, they need to disable a third. Or is 54 CU's not accepted because it doesn't fit the obligatory 36 CU's figure from Github that fits some people's narratives too well? It's a perfect split of 18 CU's with each configuration, care to refute?

I'm not a tech guy, but isn't the disabling if CU's precisely what this patent...

Yet another Sony patent seems to promise PS5 backwards compatibility

PS4 lead architect Mark Cerny strikes again

www.google.com

...was alluding to?

Skeff · Mar 1, 2020

doncabesa said:
From what I've read and been told they'd need to go 72, because they have to turn it off in a way that doesn't work with 54. So Sony would have to wait for big navi, or hopefully they've worked out a software solution because otherwise they're hamstrung hardware wise for a long time.

The way they would disable CU's in a 72 CU Chip is exactly the same as a 54, again IF they had to disable SE instead of individual CU, or rather WGP.

AegonSnake · Mar 1, 2020

bsigg said:
It would be surprising if Sony went down that road. I can't see them doing it personally but it would be kind of funny to see the spin on how it's a good idea after people have been attacking the idea of 2 consoles like MS is seemingly doing.

you do realize there is a difference between a 4 tflops base model and a 9 tflops base model?

1080p at 9 tflops wont hold back next gen. 4 is another story.

bsigg · Mar 1, 2020

AegonSnake said:
you do realize there is a difference between a 4 tflops base model and a 9 tflops base model?

1080p at 9 tflops wont hold back next gen. 4 is another story.

Do you realize that prices would be astronomical for that option?

AegonSnake · Mar 1, 2020

bsigg said:
Do you realize that prices would be astronomical for that option?

what difference does it make? you said people would try to spin the two console strategy as if the issue was two consoles strategy and not the ridiculously low 4 tflops base model.

disco_potato · Mar 1, 2020

KORNdog said:
I'm not a tech guy, but isn't the disabling if CU's precisely what this patent...

Yet another Sony patent seems to promise PS5 backwards compatibility

PS4 lead architect Mark Cerny strikes again

www.google.com

...was alluding to?

Yeah, gpu could "spoof" hardware native to whichever game needs it.

US Patent for Backward compatibility through use of spoof clock and fine grain frequency control Patent (Patent # 10,534,395 issued January 14, 2020) - Justia Patents Search

An application runs at a first operating frequency if the application is designed for a current version of a system and runs at a second operating frequency if the application is designed for a prior version of the system that operates at a lower frequency than the first operating frequency. The...

patents.justia.com

An application runs at a first operating frequency if the application is designed for a current version of a system and runs at a second operating frequency if the application is designed for a prior version of the system that operates at a lower frequency than the first operating frequency.

The second operating frequency may be higher than the operating frequency of the prior version of the system to account for differences in latency, throughput or other processing characteristics between the two systems. Software readable cycle counters are based on a spoof clock running at the operating frequency of the prior version of the system, rather than the true operating frequency.

The patent goes back to 2017 but it already has mentions of L3 which ps4 doesn't have but zen 2 does.

More powerful central processing units (CPUs), graphic processing units (GPUs) and accelerated processing units (APUs) may have higher latency, or latency characteristics that differ from less powerful components. For example, a more powerful GPU may have more stages in its texture pipeline when compared to a less powerful GPU. In such a case, the latency of this pipeline increases. In another example, a more powerful APU may contain a L3 cache for the CPU, compared to a less powerful APU that did not have such a cache. In such a case, the memory latency characteristics differ as the time needed to access data that misses all caches increases for the more powerful APU, but average latency will decrease for the more powerful APU.

The more powerful device and the less powerful device may be able to perform the same processing (e.g., execution of program instructions on the CPU or various programmatic and fixed function operations on the GPU), but differences in latency of this processing may cause the more powerful device to fail to be backwards compatible with respect to the less powerful device. Similarly, there may be differences in speed or throughput of the processing that cause the more powerful device to fail to be backwards compatible. For example, for certain types of processing, the more powerful device may be able to perform more iterations of the processing within the same time interval. Alternatively, the more powerful device could perform the processing using different algorithms that result in behavior that is faster or slower than the less powerful device, depending on the circumstance.

In the case of video game consoles, the operation is typically at a set clock frequency, and the software applications are tested for proper operation at this set frequency. Sometimes, it is desirable to run applications created for the original, less powerful console on a more powerful console. This ability is often referred to as "backward compatibility". In such cases, it is desirable for the more powerful device to be able to run the application created for the less powerful device without detrimental effects of differences in latency or processing speed.

anexanhume · Mar 1, 2020

A B3D user did a very good job organizing and cross-correlating the GitHub leak with the Flute benchmarks.

Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

I don't see how any third party dev would be privy to any changes to the hardware regarding cooling. Yes they will obviously have performance targets and so forth but I get very sceptical when they start talking about design decision that only the hardware guys at AMD and Sony would know. Even...

forum.beyond3d.com

Brees2Thomas · Mar 1, 2020

CosmicBolt said:
www.wired.com/story/exclusive-playstation-5

From the second WIRED article it's clear that, PS5 GPU is capable of 1.) Hardware RT acceleration 2.) Machine Learning. Features not available in RDNA 1.

GitHub leak mentions PS5 gpu as Navi10 LITE, implying RDNA1 based. I think PS5 GPU is highly customized Navi GPU, too different to RDNA 2.

or the GitHub leaks don't represent current PS5 GPU

Wait...the Github data actually included the words "Navi 10 Lite?"

Proven · Mar 1, 2020

anexanhume said:
A B3D user did a very good job organizing and cross-correlating the GitHub leak with the Flute benchmarks.

Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

I don't see how any third party dev would be privy to any changes to the hardware regarding cooling. Yes they will obviously have performance targets and so forth but I get very sceptical when they start talking about design decision that only the hardware guys at AMD and Sony would know. Even...

forum.beyond3d.com

Github is good info.

Along with the reddit leak from a year ago it matches a lot of things.

Majiebeast · Mar 1, 2020

Proven said:
Github is good info.

Along with the reddit leak from a year ago it matches a lot of things.

Yeah for xbox fanboys trying to craft a narrative it sure is.

VX1 · Mar 1, 2020

anexanhume said:
A B3D user did a very good job organizing and cross-correlating the GitHub leak with the Flute benchmarks.

Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

I don't see how any third party dev would be privy to any changes to the hardware regarding cooling. Yes they will obviously have performance targets and so forth but I get very sceptical when they start talking about design decision that only the hardware guys at AMD and Sony would know. Even...

forum.beyond3d.com

Yup!

"What to make of this?

Flute Benchmark contains OPN number that matches Oberon OPN number found in one of Github docs (100-000000004)
Flute Benchmark contains socket type BL5 that also matches Oberon socket type found in one of Github docs
Userbenchmark Oberon leak contains PCI ID - 13F9, which matches PCI ID used in Flute Benchmark AND also matches to OBR proj A0 stepping chip found in Github
Flute Benchmark contains 16GB of what appears to be GDDR6 RAM on 256 bit bus (check latency), and modules higher then 14Gbps (448GB/s) or 16Gbps (512GB/s), which coincidentally, also matches to Github Oberon leak

Conclusion?

Flute benchmark showed custom SOC, judging by socket type almost certainly not for PC or laptop
Flute matches Github data perfectly
- same OPN number
- same socket
- same GPU - 13F9
- same stepping - A0
We therefore have two independent sources confirming legitimacy of chip named Oberon, which was tested at the time Sony released "V" style PS5 dev kits to developers"

Splader · Mar 1, 2020

Majiebeast said:
Yeah for xbox fanboys trying to craft a narrative it sure is.

Out of curiosity, did you click the link posted above?

Deleted member 12635 · Mar 1, 2020

BlacknGoldBlood said:
So we don't know of any advantages, yet, of going with RDNA 2 over RDNA 1?

RDNA is supposedly more efficient and sports features like RT and VRS. But that wasn't my point of my statement you responded to. I actually only wanted to make clear how I interpret the wording of the Xbox blog:
a) MS uses RDNA 2 as a base architecture
b) The SOC is still produced on 7nm node

In reference to Big Navi, that is just a reference to an expected PC GPU and is not an architecture. That is why I said we should not use it in terms of consoles.

But I actually did not say anything about NAVI 10 Lite.

Brees2Thomas · Mar 1, 2020

VX1 said:
Yup!

"What to make of this?

Flute Benchmark contains OPN number that matches Oberon OPN number found in one of Github docs (100-000000004)

Flute Benchmark contains socket type BL5 that also matches Oberon socket type found in one of Github docs

Userbenchmark Oberon leak contains PCI ID - 13F9, which matches PCI ID used in Flute Benchmark AND also matches to OBR proj A0 stepping chip found in Github

Flute Benchmark contains 16GB of what appears to be GDDR6 RAM on 256 bit bus (check latency), and modules higher then 14Gbps (448GB/s) or 16Gbps (512GB/s), which coincidentally, also matches to Github Oberon leak

Conclusion?

Flute benchmark showed custom SOC, judging by socket type almost certainly not for PC or laptop

Flute matches Github data perfectly

same OPN number

same socket

same GPU - 13F9

same stepping - A0

We therefore have two independent sources confirming legitimacy of chip named Oberon, which was tested at the time Sony released "V" style PS5 dev kits to developers"

Was there ever really doubt that Oberon wasn't a real chip? We just didn't know what it was exactly?

Kreten · Mar 1, 2020

Md Ray said:
It's either RDNA 1 or RDNA 2. I don't know why people keep mentioning RDNA 1.5 or 1.9, IDK where these numbers came from... Certainly not from AMD. And I believe PS5 is full-blown RDNA 2. Here's why:

1. PS5 is confirmed to have RT acceleration in the GPU hardware just like Series X.
2. Series X's GPU is confirmed to be RDNA 2. So we establish that RT is an RDNA 2 feature.
3. Therefore this leads me to believe that PS5 is clearly RDNA 2.

Another source is AMD themselves. Here's what AMD's product management lead had said during January's press briefing:

EDIT: Adding the link to the above quote in here as well:

AMD Ray Tracing Will Arrive "When The Time is Right" - Next-Gen Raytracing Addressed

AMD has said in a recent briefing that raytracing will arrive on their cards "when the time is right". Here's what that means.

www.techquila.co.in

From the above quote, it's clear-cut that ray-tracing is a part of RDNA 2. XSX and PS5 support HW-based RT, it's because they have RDNA 2. Plain and simple.
RDNA 1 GPUs we have available now on PC does not have any traces of ray-tracing. So yeah.

Just like Xbox one and PS4 were based on GCN 1.0, but sported features that were only in GCN 2.0 thus they were called GCN1.5.

Why do you think that PS5 couldn't be Navi with addition of RT from RDNA2? They did same with PS4, so why is it magically one or the other all of a sudden?

There is a lot more to RDNA2 than just RT, they are saying to have removed all of GCN things from the architecture and other improvements.

Can you explain why AMD themselves said that they are working with sony on making semi-custom GPU based on next gen Radeon architectures? For Microsoft they said they are co-engeneering semi-custom GPU based on next gen Radeon RDNA architecture. This itself from AMD tells you that for Sony side they are building chip based on multiple architectures because they used plural term not singular as with MS.

Brees2Thomas · Mar 1, 2020

Colbert said:
RDNA is supposedly more efficient and sports features like RT and VRS. But that wasn't my point of my statement you responded to. I actually only wanted to make clear how I interpret the wording of the Xbox blog:
a) MS uses RDNA 2 as a base architecture
b) The SOC is still produced on 7nm node

In reference to Big Navi, that is just a reference to an expected PC GPU and is not an architecture. That is why I said we should not use it in terms of consoles.

But I actually did not say anything about NAVI 10 Lite.

Ok...sorry to misquote you

WesleyShark · Mar 1, 2020

So many avatars lost in February. How many will join them in March? 😏

jroc74 · Mar 1, 2020

anexanhume said:
A B3D user did a very good job organizing and cross-correlating the GitHub leak with the Flute benchmarks.

Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

I don't see how any third party dev would be privy to any changes to the hardware regarding cooling. Yes they will obviously have performance targets and so forth but I get very sceptical when they start talking about design decision that only the hardware guys at AMD and Sony would know. Even...

forum.beyond3d.com

Very interesting.

I would suggest ppl read the rest of the posts that follow. Ariel vs Oberon.

Deleted member 12635 · Mar 1, 2020

anexanhume said:
A B3D user did a very good job organizing and cross-correlating the GitHub leak with the Flute benchmarks.

Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

I don't see how any third party dev would be privy to any changes to the hardware regarding cooling. Yes they will obviously have performance targets and so forth but I get very sceptical when they start talking about design decision that only the hardware guys at AMD and Sony would know. Even...

forum.beyond3d.com

Wow, thanks for sharing this. Actually a lot of links in there I was not aware of!

BlacknGoldBlood said:
Ok...sorry to misquote you

Hey, no reason to be sorry about that. There is so much info every day, it is absolutely possible to mix things up who said what. Happens all the time and to me too, welcome to the party :)

bsigg · Mar 1, 2020

AegonSnake said:
what difference does it make? you said people would try to spin the two console strategy as if the issue was two consoles strategy and not the ridiculously low 4 tflops base model.

It's as absurd as people saying a 4tf Lockhart is going to stunt the Series X, which personally I don't believe it's 4tf anymore if it was taken off the table and brought back, as has been reported from several people.

We know Sony already has one device with a BOM of at least $450 meaning that console will probably push up to $499. That is also allegedly the console that is supposed to compete with the Series X. In what world does Sony have a SECOND product that is within a few TF of both those consoles and priced to be some kind of entry level, so anywhere from $299 to $399? Additionally, they're not going to target 1080p with 9TF, that's just ridiculous.

There is nothing credible to give the idea of Sony making 2 different consoles for a 2020 launch any notion of it being true, it's simply rumors from random sites picking posts from places like Era and spinning it as a "leak".

DrKeo · Mar 1, 2020

VX1 said:
Interesting:

cc DrKeo , Colbert

They are saying the 5700XT is on 7nm, not N7P. Interesting and makes sense considering if it was on N7P they would have shouted it from the rooftops.

chris 1515 said:
I think they will go full hybrid raytracing not raytracing only. This is big because doing two versions of a game one with rasterization and the other hybrid raytracing is difficult and tons of work.

They said that they are depreciating parts of the code in favor of an RT implementation. If their next game is coming out after 2021, there is no need to support a RT-less GPU.

According to the Steam hardware survey 7.3% of PC gamers already have RT hardware and that's before NVIDIA's 3000 series, AMD RDNA 2 cards and Intel's X^e GPUs - all of them coming out this year and have RT hardware. It will be pretty hard to find a machine in 2021 that doesn't have RT hardware. Why do they need to support it?

Man, that last pathetic PS4 and Xbox One generation really destroyed everyone's perspective. People, after seven years of drought we are going back to normal.

Brees2Thomas · Mar 1, 2020

Colbert said:
Wow, thanks for sharing this. Actually a lot of links in there I was not aware of!

Hey, no reason to be sorry about that. There is so much info every day, it is absolutely possible to mix things up who said what. Happens all the time and to me too, welcome to the party :)

Thanks...as for "Navi 10 lite," those words weren't included in the Guthub data were they?

AegonSnake · Mar 1, 2020

bsigg said:
It's as absurd as people saying a 4tf Lockhart is going to stunt the Series X, which personally I don't believe it's 4tf anymore if it was taken off the table and brought back, as has been reported from several people.

We know Sony already has one device with a BOM of at least $450 meaning that console will probably push up to $499. That is also allegedly the console that is supposed to compete with the Series X. In what world does Sony have a SECOND product that is within a few TF of both those consoles and priced to be some kind of entry level, so anywhere from $299 to $399? Additionally, they're not going to target 1080p with 9TF, that's just ridiculous.

There is nothing credible to give the idea of Sony making 2 different consoles for a 2020 launch any notion of it being true, it's simply rumors from random sites picking posts from places like Era and spinning it as a "leak".

i am not sure what you are arguing about here. where did i say that sony is going with two consoles? im well aware of the fact that its a bs rumor.

i am taking issue your with console warish post that was clearly a dig at people who didnt care for the 4 tflops lockhart. i have zero interest in discussing what the eventual tflop target for sony's lockhart would be, but i can promise you that if it was 4 tflops, people would have the same response as they had for lockart.

chris 1515 · Mar 1, 2020

DrKeo said:
They are saying the 5700XT is on 7nm, not N7P. Interesting and makes sense considering if it was on N7P they would have shouted it from the rooftops.

They said that they are depreciating parts of the code in favor of an RT implementation. If their next game is coming out after 2021, there is no need to support a RT-less GPU.

According to the Steam hardware survey 7.3% of PC gamers already have RT hardware and that's before NVIDIA's 3000 series, AMD RDNA 2 cards and Intel's X^e GPUs - all of them coming out this year and have RT hardware. It will be pretty hard to find a machine in 2021 that doesn't have RT hardware. Why do they need to support it?

Man, that last pathetic PS4 and Xbox One generation really destroyed everyone's perspective. People, after seven years of drought we are going back to normal.

This what I said no interest for them to continue to have a rasterized version go full hybrid raytracing.

Kreten · Mar 1, 2020

Md Ray said:
AMD Ray Tracing Will Arrive "When The Time is Right" - Next-Gen Raytracing Addressed

AMD has said in a recent briefing that raytracing will arrive on their cards "when the time is right". Here's what that means.

www.techquila.co.in

EDIT: It's from the same AMD employee who said this:

Like Ryzen, AMD’s Big Navi is “going to similarly disrupt 4K” gaming

"All of us need a thriving Radeon GPU ecosystem. So, are we going after 4K, and going to similarly disrupt 4K? Absolutely."

www.pcgamesn.com

Can you provide a link where it says that PS5 is RDNA 2 specifically? There isn't even confirmation that Sony will use AMD RT, Lisa just said that both consoles will have RT nothing more.

And can you explain how AMD stated that they are making Sony chip based on multiple AMD architectures yet somehow it's RDNA 2 only?

STech · Mar 1, 2020

anexanhume said:
A B3D user did a very good job organizing and cross-correlating the GitHub leak with the Flute benchmarks.

Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

I don't see how any third party dev would be privy to any changes to the hardware regarding cooling. Yes they will obviously have performance targets and so forth but I get very sceptical when they start talking about design decision that only the hardware guys at AMD and Sony would know. Even...

forum.beyond3d.com

so 9,2TF almost confirmed?

Kreten · Mar 1, 2020

Md Ray said:
Oh wait, you're talking about HW-accelererated RT part.

Both PS5 and XSX have the same AMD's HW-RT solution. The only difference is that MS will use their own DXR (DirectX Raytracing) extension to handle ray-tracing on XSX, it's a DX12 API's feature that's available on Windows 10 as well which RTX GPUs use to render ray-tracing effects. Hence the wording: "Hardware-accelerated DirectX Raytracing" by Phil Spencer. Sony will have its own ray-tracing extension for their GNM API to handle RT on PS5. There's also one for the Vulkan API, I'm not sure what it's called.

You a verified insider? Because you are making bold claims without any confirmation from anywhere, but your own interpretation what they could mean.

DukeBlueBall · Mar 1, 2020

Kreten said:
You a verified insider? Because you are making bold claims without any confirmation from anywhere, but your own interpretation what they could mean.

DXR and DX12 is already common info for Xsx.

Sekiro · Mar 1, 2020

So to sum up February 2020 in next gen news:

A great month for Xbox series X news revealing a good amount spec info including the major bombshell that is RDNA2 and 12TF, but it bad month for PS5 news being completely radio silent., a complete vice versa from January 2020.

Lets hope March fairs better with news, although with GDC getting cancelled thanks to COVID-19 i doubt it.

VX1 · Mar 1, 2020

jroc74 said:
Very interesting.

I would suggest ppl read the rest of the posts that follow. Ariel vs Oberon.

Indeed, here it is, from the same B3D AbsoluteBeginner poster:

"So both consoles will have RDNA2 and both will have AMD's ray tracing solution.

Ariel never really fit in with Oberon IMO, and I speculated that Ariel was first Navi (its codename was GFX1000) that Sony needed early to get their BC correctly before AMD had RT and VRS ready (because we have Ariel tests from December 2018, and it was not actual SOC but GPU).

Entire Github test was regression test done on Oberon chip, and Ariel Spec was used for Native/BC1/BC2 tests hence no RT/VRS.

And then there is Shader testbench available that specifies Ariel as GPU (also in testlog its referred to as adapter 0x13E0 and runs on Vulkan) so I think that chip certainly existed, I just think they used early Navi as testbed for BC until RDNA2 is ready with RT and VRS, hence Oberon.

I also think Oberon is 40CU chip, as is Ariel. This is why BW results show ~440GB/s for Ariel and 530GB/s for Oberon, because Oberon is actual APU accessing full API BW, while Ariel was GPU with 256 bit bus and 14Gbps chips.

If Ariel is GFX1000 (Navi10_lite), and it is, then there won't be RT/VRS test when running regression test with Ariel specs. Therefore, this does not prove Oberon has no RT/VRS, it proves that Oberon Native regression test was running Ariel SPEC iGPU (as was the case with BC1 and BC2), thus I speculate Ariel was early Navi used by Sony as testbed for PS5 BC, until RT/VRS become available."

Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

I don't see how any third party dev would be privy to any changes to the hardware regarding cooling. Yes they will obviously have performance targets and so forth but I get very sceptical when they start talking about design decision that only the hardware guys at AMD and Sony would know. Even...

forum.beyond3d.com

MykhellMikado · Mar 1, 2020

VX1 said:
Interesting:

cc DrKeo , Colbert

so the last slide on the 5700 series basically confirms the PS5 is essentially a 5700 RDNA1 machine. They literally show a picture of a PlayStation console and we already know that MS is not the one using RDNA and a much larger chip and this is consistent with BOTH github and other leaks, essentially AMD already confirmed 9.2 and below PS5 on RDNA1 way back when.

jroc74 · Mar 1, 2020

STech said:
so 9,2TF almost confirmed?

Almost, but still not quite, lol.

In one of the posts they had a theory? that the github results are a mix of Ariel and Oberon, if I'm reading it right. Which IMO goes with the rest of the questionable stuff that was in there about wrong devices being in Oberon folders, etc.

Possible wrong IDs, github data with questionable info....

IMO it's a shaky thing to use as confirmation. Again, if I'm reading it right.

III-V · Mar 1, 2020

VX1 said:
Indeed, here it is, from the same B3D AbsoluteBeginner poster:

"So both consoles will have RDNA2 and both will have AMD's ray tracing solution.

Ariel never really fit in with Oberon IMO, and I speculated that Ariel was first Navi (its codename was GFX1000) that Sony needed early to get their BC correctly before AMD had RT and VRS ready (because we have Ariel tests from December 2018, and it was not actual SOC but GPU).

Entire Github test was regression test done on Oberon chip, and Ariel Spec was used for Native/BC1/BC2 tests hence no RT/VRS.

And then there is Shader testbench available that specifies Ariel as GPU (also in testlog its referred to as adapter 0x13E0 and runs on Vulkan) so I think that chip certainly existed, I just think they used early Navi as testbed for BC until RDNA2 is ready with RT and VRS, hence Oberon.

I also think Oberon is 40CU chip, as is Ariel. This is why BW results show ~440GB/s for Ariel and 530GB/s for Oberon, because Oberon is actual APU accessing full API BW, while Ariel was GPU with 256 bit bus and 14Gbps chips.

If Ariel is GFX1000 (Navi10_lite), and it is, then there won't be RT/VRS test when running regression test with Ariel specs. Therefore, this does not prove Oberon has no RT/VRS, it proves that Oberon Native regression test was running Ariel SPEC iGPU (as was the case with BC1 and BC2), thus I speculate Ariel was early Navi used by Sony as testbed for PS5 BC, until RT/VRS become available."

Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

I don't see how any third party dev would be privy to any changes to the hardware regarding cooling. Yes they will obviously have performance targets and so forth but I get very sceptical when they start talking about design decision that only the hardware guys at AMD and Sony would know. Even...

forum.beyond3d.com

Sounds like what we have been saying for months.

Bobbyleejones · Mar 1, 2020

Majiebeast said:
Yeah for xbox fanboys trying to craft a narrative it sure is.

Really now....

VX1 · Mar 1, 2020

III-V said:
Sounds like what we have been saying for months.

Yup.

FF Seraphim · Mar 1, 2020

Colbert said:
FF Seraphim
Found the recipe for the red wine cake :)

Share!

SomePlayer · Mar 1, 2020

*Deleted*

III-V · Mar 1, 2020

How do I hold all this Stan

PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]

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