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Which team are you on?

  • Double Team (1997)

  • Team Walnut

  • The A-Team

  • Team "No One Can Stop Mr. Domino"

  • Sports Team

  • "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel."

  • Team Margarita


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Axel Stone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,771
Gameplay teaser of Halo, very little. Building the hype.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-senuas-saga-hellblade-2-trailer-analysis
"But what if it were real-time? The raw specs of the trailer file itself are intriguing. If you look at the metadata of the video - it is mastered at just 24 frames per second and the actual resolution of the rendered frame between the cinematic black bars is 3840x1608: so a little more than 74 per cent of a 'real' 4K in spatial resolution and at 80 per cent of 30fps. All together, that is 60 per cent of the amount of pixels pushed per second compared to 4K30 - and something that's decidedly easier to render than you may expect."

If THAT float your boat, fair enough.
Can you stopped reacting to my post and go back influancing reliable sites please ?

I'm aware of all of that, but CGI does suggest a pre-rendered cutscene which this wasn't.

I'm not suggesting that you should be impressed with this or take it as any indication of what the game looks like, but at least don't misrepresent what the demo actually consists of, that's all.
 

Azurik

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
2,441
If PS5 is only 9TF then the only thing it's good for is dropping in the tub.


9tf doesn't even make sense. Why would they release a console that's only 3 Teraflops more than the Xbox One X, a last gen console? They might as well not even bother.


i find posts like these simply hilarious. Once people see games like god of war 2, horizon 2 and so on, they will be drooling all over their TVs, regardless the TF numbers. If the ps5 was "only" 9TF, it wouldn't simply be only 3tf more than one x. It would be a significant 3tf more than x, due to modern hardware and nothing as already outdated as the old components like the cpu in current gen when they launched.
People need to chill out with this "I'm not even going to bother if the ps5 is below 10tf" nonsense.

people don't seem to understand that despite the mid gen consoles being 4.2 and 6tf, they still only run games based on 1.x TF outdated hardware. Now, next gen games will be written for 9TF hardware minimum (if ps5 turns out to be the rumoured 9.2). People's eyes will melt once we get to the second gen games of next gen.
 
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Marble

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
3,819
9tf doesn't even make sense. Why would they release a console that's only 3 Teraflops more than the Xbox One X, a last gen console? They might as well not even bother.

Because the CPU and the SSD is what really going to make a difference and not the GPU? And because games sell a console and not a marketing term.
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
Ah I was hoping for some people who actually knew the specs or have some credible sources. I've seen his posts, he definitely knows what he's talking about but I doubt he has any information about the actual specs.
Correct. I am/was predicting, not having specs from either party! (other than Xbox for the 12 TF now).

---------

I'm like that in the past 24 hours, yesterday I've thrown in the ring the 54CU @2Ghz 13.8TF PS5 :D
I have thought about that a 54 CU GPU makes it harder to get HW BC for a PS5 Pro for example, or you just rely on clock increases there. The same goes to the Xbox Series X which we assume to have 56 CUs but I think it will easier there as the BC is SW based (with a few HW tweaks). If you look back to those mid-cycle updates this gen, they were only possible because the amount of CUs was doubled or more. I would suggest that if there are mid-cycle updates planned they are based on a smaller node that would allow to increase the CU count respectively.

------------

I have no idea if this guy is reliable, but if he is correct about 80 CU at 550 mm2 I think either

1.) 7nm+ brings no density increase on RDNA2
2.) "Big Navi" is still on 7NP



edit: this was the Hynix fiasco cat IIRC

Yeah, that was based on the later debunked Hynix leak. But while this was debunked I would think Big Navi has to be something like this (4 SEs a 10 WGPs). Though what will be the most interesting part for it will be the memory they will use and the bandwidth there.
 
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Nov 2, 2017
2,275
9tf doesn't even make sense. Why would they release a console that's only 3 Teraflops more than the Xbox One X, a last gen console? They might as well not even bother.
Because that's not how it works and GPUs aren't that easy to compare where you can just compare TFs and call it a day. I mean in theory a 6 TF GPU might deliver more performance in games than a 12 TF GPU. But I guess people like their easy simple numbers and it doesn't matter how many times this gets repeated.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,904
I don't know why you guys are hung up on BOM of both consoles. First of all they are estimates from two different sources. One is zhuyge and other is Bloomberg. I knoy zhuyge said Xbox X BOM is slightly higher than ps5 but being slightly higher has no indication on power.

1- PS5 can have other components that cheaper than Xbox.
2-They are sourced by different vendors hence different prices.
3- Sony may have able to get better deals on components or vice versa. Even 50cents or dollar behind each component can make a huge difference in the end.
4-They may have contracted with vendors when prices were cheaper.
5-Better or worse quality materials.

They are so many factors that can change BOM value.
It makes sense to consider how BOM would differ between the two and not be fully representative since they won't have the exact same parts with the exact same configurations.

I suppose it is easier for most to just look at the number alone and draw conclusions without thinking.
 

Deleted member 10193

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,127
i find posts like these simply hilarious. Once people see games like god of war 2, horizon 2 and so on, they will be drooling all over their TVs, regardless the TF numbers. If the ps5 was "only" 9TF, it wouldn't simply be only 3tf more than one x. It would be a significant 3tf more than x, due to modern hardware and nothing as already outdated as the old components like the cpu in current gen when they launched.
People need to chill out with this "I'm not even going to bother if the ps5 is below 10tf" nonsense.

people don't seem to understand that despite the mid gen consoles being 4.2 and 6tf, they still only run games based on 1.x TF consoles. Now, next gen games will be written for 9TF hardware minimum (if ps5 turns out to be the rumoured 9.2). Peoples eyes will melt once with get to the second gen games of next gen.
How about you stop telling people what to care about?

I don't buy a console just to play exclusives. I stopped upgrading my PC 5 years ago so I play all the multiplatform games on a console.

3TF is not an insignificant number considering the gulf between XBO and PS4 was only 0.5tf and that was the difference between 900p and 1080p.

One X is 1.8tf more powerful than Pro and that is a difference between sub 1800p on Pro and Native 4k on X.

Series X being 3tf more powerful than PS5 is worrying. I prefer Sony exclusives but I don't want an inferior experience in multiplatform games. I switched from Pro to One X recently and I prefer the performance of the One X.
 

Yankee Ruin X

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,687
i find posts like these simply hilarious. Once people see games like god of war 2, horizon 2 and so on, they will be drooling all over their TVs, regardless the TF numbers. If the ps5 was "only" 9TF, it wouldn't simply be only 3tf more than one x. It would be a significant 3tf more than x, due to modern hardware and nothing as already outdated as the old components like the cpu in current gen when they launched.
People need to chill out with this "I'm not even going to bother if the ps5 is below 10tf" nonsense.

people don't seem to understand that despite the mid gen consoles being 4.2 and 6tf, they still only run games based on 1.x TF outdated hardware. Now, next gen games will be written for 9TF hardware minimum (if ps5 turns out to be the rumoured 9.2). People's eyes will melt once we get to the second gen games of next gen.

Sony just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Console Hardware (I'm an expert), but teraflops and better pixels are huge parts of it. It's not like it is at Nintendo where you can become successful by being different. If you have 9 teraflops in PS5, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is getting more teraflops.
What this means is the general public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase PS5, nor will they purchase any of Sony's TVs. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Sony has alienated an entire market with this move.
Sony, publicly apologize and reveal 13 teraflop PS5 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,362
If the PS5 really is 9.2TF , I don't think that difference in GPU power is "nothing", but I also don't think it's quite the dramatic chasm that some people are portraying it as.

Yeah, the PS4 Pro sometimes doesn't run games at the same resolution or framerate or LOD as the One X, but the PS4 Pro has also had plenty of examples of gorgeous games in the two years since the One X came out. Were all of the best looking games last year One X games? I saw a few websites call Death Stranding the most visually impressive game of 2019, and that game isn't even available on the Xbox.

Having the "power crown" is nice, but it's only a tiny piece of the actual puzzle - and I'm sure both companies know this.
 

Azurik

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
2,441
Sony just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Console Hardware (I'm an expert), but teraflops and better pixels are huge parts of it. It's not like it is at Nintendo where you can become successful by being different. If you have 9 teraflops in PS5, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is getting more teraflops.
What this means is the general public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase PS5, nor will they purchase any of Sony's TVs. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Sony has alienated an entire market with this move.
Sony, publicly apologize and reveal 13 teraflop PS5 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
First I thought you are serious, but then I realised you must be trolling, right? You are trolling, right?
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
Hmm, i think we should wait for some more reliable source for this type of news :)


I have no idea who this guy is ( DrKeo ? ) but i am a bit skeptical...

Read the journal there is a newspaper article inside

www.jpost.com

Israeli scientists: 'In a few weeks, we will have coronavirus vaccine'

Once the vaccine is developed, it will take at least 90 days to complete the regulatory process and potentially more to enter the marketplace.

Israeli scientists are on the cusp of developing the first vaccine against the novel coronavirus, according to Science and Technology Minister Ofir Akunis. If all goes as planned, the vaccine could be ready within a few weeks and available in 90 days, according to a release.

"Congratulations to MIGAL [The Galilee Research Institute] on this exciting breakthrough," Akunis said. "I am confident there will be further rapid progress, enabling us to provide a needed response to the grave global COVID-19 threat," Akunis said, referring to the disease caused by the novel coronavirus.

EDIT:
nypost.com

Israeli scientists claim to be weeks away from coronavirus vaccine

Israeli researchers scrambling to develop a coronavirus vaccine say it could be ready in just three weeks – and available for use within 90 days, according to reports.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
RDNA 2.0 is an architecture and not locked into 7N+



Density wise, its scaling almost exactly how we expected. The RT from the patent is done in the texture processor unit, scaling with the number of CU.


Yes, it does appear to be more efficient thermally.

18 TF

cc: SpinningBirdKick
It will be interesting to see just how efficient. There was a rumor of a 72 cu ps5 running at 1.55 ghz. The stimulating gobzalo chart had the 40 cu navi 10 at around 90 w for the 1.55 ghz. With rdna 2 we are looking at roughly 34% efficiency. So just like that, the 90w becomes 60w and you can have two of those for 120w. And that's for an 80 cu gpu. Should be around 110w for 72 cus.

So the question remains, will Sony have a 550mm2 apu. I just don't see it. Suddenly a 9.2 tflops 2.0 ghz ps5 gpu which should now only be around 100w doesn't look that dumb. and the 56 cu 400 mm2 xbox gpu which should be around 120w. I don't see either console going over 225w.

200 minimum. 210-215w max.

Lastly, the 550 mm2 gpu with lower clocks suggests that the die costs must not be that high. This could also explain the gigantic xbox apu. Looks amd went wide and slow themselves. Wouldn't be surprised if Sony also goes with a bigger die.
 

tapedeck

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,984
I see we've made a lot of progress through 11 OT's.

WVtmCwE.gif
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
Ah yes, i see it now.I hope they are on the right track but we'll probably have to wait a bit longer for mass produced final vaccine.

They say three months for regulation and after probably 6 to 12 months I suppose for final vaccine. I am not a specialist of logistic but at least with cloroquine there is a treatment. If things improve in second quarter on supply chain i think maybe we will be ok.
 

Timlot

Banned
Nov 27, 2019
359
If the PS5 really is 9.2TF , I don't think that difference in GPU power is "nothing", but I also don't think it's quite the dramatic chasm that some people are portraying it as.

Yeah, the PS4 Pro sometimes doesn't run games at the same resolution or framerate or LOD as the One X, but the PS4 Pro has also had plenty of examples of gorgeous games in the two years since the One X came out. Were all of the best looking games last year One X games? I saw a few websites call Death Stranding the most visually impressive game of 2019, and that game isn't even available on the Xbox.

Having the "power crown" is nice, but it's only a tiny piece of the actual puzzle - and I'm sure both companies know this.

The reason why the power argument will always be there is because its something you can't debate. If the XSX is more 3TF more powerful then the potential is there for every multi-plat to look and perform better on that system. Bringing up exclusives is a red herring, because both platforms will have their share high quality AAA titles. Which ones you like better is subjective, but in a hardware debate, if those exclusives were on the more powerful hardware they would look/perform better. Example, Horizon ZD on PC is going look/perform better on that platform because the hardware potential is vast.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
It will be interesting to see just how efficient. There was a rumor of a 72 cu ps5 running at 1.55 ghz. The stimulating gobzalo chart had the 40 cu navi 10 at around 90 w for the 1.55 ghz. With rdna 2 we are looking at roughly 34% efficiency. So just like that, the 90w becomes 60w and you can have two of those for 120w. And that's for an 80 cu gpu. Should be around 110w for 72 cus.

So the question remains, will Sony have a 550mm2 apu. I just don't see it. Suddenly a 9.2 tflops 2.0 ghz ps5 gpu which should now only be around 100w doesn't look that dumb. and the 56 cu 400 mm2 xbox gpu which should be around 120w. I don't see either console going over 225w.

200 minimum. 210-215w max.

Lastly, the 550 mm2 gpu with lower clocks suggests that the die costs must not be that high. This could also explain the gigantic xbox apu. Looks amd went wide and slow themselves. Wouldn't be surprised if Sony also goes with a bigger die.
What I saw recently were that yields were very good
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,362
The reason why the power argument will always be there is because its something you can't debate. If the XSX is more 3TF more powerful then the potential is there for every multi-plat to look and perform better on that system. Bringing up exclusives is a red herring, because both platforms will have their share high quality AAA titles. Which ones you like better is subjective, but in a hardware debate, if those exclusives were on the more powerful hardware they would look/perform better. Example, Horizon ZD on PC is going look/perform better on that platform because the hardware potential is vast.

But the point is that it comes down to how you use the hardware. Gears 5 uses the One X hardware to achieve 4K60, and it looks fantastic. Death Stranding doesn't target those specs, yet still manages to deliver visuals that some people considered the best of the year (I think Digital Foundry were among them?). And these are both late-gen games, where the hardware is being pushed to it's absolute limit.

Yes, all other variables being completely equal, 12TF will produce nicer graphics than 9.2TF - but the entire point is there's a huge amount of variability, and what you choose to do with the power matters as much to the end result, as the power itself.

I think the real reason the power argument is a seductive one, is because it's easy to wield as a fanboy cudgel - especially when you can reduce it down to a single number like TFLOPS. My 12 is bigger than your 9.2! Nyah nyah boo boo!

And to be clear, this isn't motivated reasoning. I could be nominally described as an "Xbox guy", in the sense that I use my One X more than my PS4 Pro. And I don't even like Death Stranding, haha.
 

Fezan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,274
It makes sense to consider how BOM would differ between the two and not be fully representative since they won't have the exact same parts with the exact same configurations.

I suppose it is easier for most to just look at the number alone and draw conclusions without thinking.
Yes, This is what I am saying. First, the BOM is an estimate from two different sources. Secondly, BOM does not define what components are you not getting. Just look at the postmortem interview by HP executive of HP Touchpad. They were paying higher for lower quality components than Apple was paying for Ipad
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
I'm aware of all of that, but CGI does suggest a pre-rendered cutscene which this wasn't.

I'm not suggesting that you should be impressed with this or take it as any indication of what the game looks like, but at least don't misrepresent what the demo actually consists of, that's all.
Did you read the full article or you just continue to bother me :
"but the perfection of geometric detail at all distances is an aspect of the trailer that makes me think it is pre-rendered and won't look quite like this in the shipping game."

Ignore list.
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,932
Berlin, 'SCHLAND

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
The reason why the power argument will always be there is because its something you can't debate. If the XSX is more 3TF more powerful then the potential is there for every multi-plat to look and perform better on that system. Bringing up exclusives is a red herring, because both platforms will have their share high quality AAA titles. Which ones you like better is subjective, but in a hardware debate, if those exclusives were on the more powerful hardware they would look/perform better. Example, Horizon ZD on PC is going look/perform better on that platform because the hardware potential is vast.
Yeah but no, this is not how it works. But instead of making long explanation, you can just compare RDR2 on One X 6 TF with the same game on 10.3 TF Stadia.
 

Axel Stone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,771
Did you read the full article or you just continue to bother me :
"but the perfection of geometric detail at all distances is an aspect of the trailer that makes me think it is pre-rendered and won't look quite like this in the shipping game."

Ignore list.

Not exactly hard evidence, but whatever.

Enjoy your Axel-free browsing.
 

Ωλ7XL9

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,250
All the teraflops will be long forgotten when the games are shown and they are all shiny on both platforms.
 

CrazyNomad

Banned
Jan 22, 2020
226
PS4 Pro have actual hardware blocks from Vega architecture. Those blocks give the Pro those Vega features. How are Microsoft getting (leveraging) RDNA2 features on Series X APU ? Until we know that, as far as we know, their RDNA2 statement is just there for the PR and marketing.

well, in the recent podcast of majornelson, jason ronald say they are using RDNA2... the transcription cut the R from the RDNA


Jason R:

So it's a massive increase in overall performance, but not only that, but with the new RDNA two graphics technology that we've leveraged from AMD it's actually significantly more efficient as well.

so I don't think it is just PR and marketing statements.
 
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