PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]

[DrKeo]

So you disagree with this DrKeo ?

PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]

Arden was listed seemingly as a placeholder, no testing had been done on it or is contained within the files. I do not believe it was in-house at the time of testing. We know Ariel dates back to 2017 and earlier references of Oberon late 2018. Arden simply wasn’t there.

www.resetera.com

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My bad, Arden and Sparkman only had the theoretical values.

This.
If both consoles are using different RT solution, then their reliance on TF power to accelerate RT will be different as well, we shall see who is the better RT accelerator? RDNA2, Sony or Turing RTX?

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Every RT solution we've seen up until now scaled with the TF count because the RT components were in the SM/CU and like every computational unit in the GPU they relay on the GPU clock speed. Regarding Sony's solution, I'm still not sure why is everyone assuming Sony has its own RT solution. They might, but what is it based on? If anything MS is the better candidate for its own RT solution considering all their work on DXR with NVIDIA.

 

[Muhammad]

Regarding Sony's solution, I'm still not sure why is everyone assuming Sony has its own RT solution. They might, but what is it based on?

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Hints, bits and pieces from developers.

Every RT solution we've seen up until now scaled with the TF count because the RT components were in the SM/CU and like every computational unit in the GPU they relay on the GPU clock speed.

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Different solutions will scale with TF count differently. for example if RDNA2 is using a hybrid solution (software + hardware) it will rely on TF power more than RTX. Meaning a less TF RTX GPU will perform the same as a more TF RDNA2 GPU.

 

[Marble]

Thanks for the Wikipedia link. What's "magical" about 100 million? Why would that mean anything, in terms of momentum?

If your position is that the PS4 is losing momentum because it's exhausted the total addressable market for consoles, you should say so.

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Seems to me you understand exactly what I mean. Good.

 

[Brohan]

My bad, Arden and Sparkman only had the theoretical values.


Every RT solution we've seen up until now scaled with the TF count because the RT components were in the SM/CU and like every computational unit in the GPU they relay on the GPU clock speed. Regarding Sony's solution, I'm still not sure why is everyone assuming Sony has its own RT solution. They might, but what is it based on?

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I think the speculation that Sony might have their own RT solution is based on the fact that the Github leak was missing any reference to RT when it comes to what people think might be the PS5. While we know that the PS5 does have a hardware based solution.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

Dunno if it's because I grew up with normal, non-wireless controllers, but I just can't see the huge inconvenience in having to plug a controller for a minutes every now and then during a gaming session - especially nowadays, that we have USB chargers fucking everywhere (I have at least a dozen of those).

I think the speculation that Sony might have their own RT solution is based on the fact that the Github leak was missing any reference to RT when it comes to what people think might be the PS5. While we know that the PS5 does have a hardware based solution.

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Github data is just a BC compatibility test suite. It's very limited in scope and, thus, deriving any hard conclusions from that besides that yeah, Sony seems to be focused on getting BC working right, is extremely foolish.

 

[gremlinz1982]

Because PS5 has been announced. But Switch will most likely not overtake PS4, like it already did with X1.

My point is, there is a very small change Xbox will outsell PS5 coming years. It's just very unlikely. I can only see that happening when Sony fucks up big time (launch later at a higher price) and their first party studios suddenly make crappy games while MS first party studios all of a sudden start producing 90+ Metacritic games at an insane rate.

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"A chance to compete". What does that even mean?

X360 had a good start. Cheaper and a year ahead of a $599 console in 2007, even with games that looked better. Still got outsold in the end.

And getting close? MS doesn't communicate sales numbers, but if the estimates are true, they are at around 50 million or something. How is that close to 85 million X360's?

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1. There is this thing called growth. Every business aspires to have it.

What Sony saw last generation, what Microsoft has seen this generation and what Nintendo saw with the Wii U is the loss in not only unit sales, but also market share.

If Microsoft sees growth next generation in both unit sales and market share, that is a win.

2. A cheaper priced console will have its takers. There are a lot of gamers who might simply want somewhere to play next generation games and not care much about resolution. Lockhart would offer that alternative if it enjoys good price discrimination to the competition. I very much doubt that Sony is worried about Series X.

 

[Brees2Thomas]

My bad, Arden and Sparkman only had the theoretical values.

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So what do you think about the theory that only Navi lite was available for testing at the time of GitHub, so that's why Sony had to use a 36-40 CU APU to test Navi BC?

 

[Axel Stone]

To appreciate it you would have to be considering a very specific scenario. One where you have spare batteries around you when your batteries die.

If you don't the hassle of leaving your house and going to et batteries and coming back surely outweighs the hassle of just plugging in the controller.

Hell, take my use case for instance. I have a 6ft long USB (both A and C) cable plugged into warts right next to my couch. I use it to charge my phone, switch, and controller. In the event my controller dies on me, I can still plug it in and use it as a tethered controller. I absolutely get the convenience of just swapping batteries, but that ultimately gets expensive over time and as I said, is entirely contingent on you having spares around, to begin with.

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I do have spares around, they sit next to me alongside my battery charger (which is most often used for charging my spare ecig batteries) and I pop them in there when they die. And, if I wanted to plug into a console or wall socket and use the controller tethered I still can, it just won't charge the battery by doing so.

I would also expect that using rechargeable swappable batteries would be cheaper over time, but that would be tricky to quantify.

 

[RoninStrife]

8 PS4 TF = PS4 gfx @ 4K
8 Next Gen RDNA TF = next gen gfx @ 4K

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RDNA TF is not a thing, its just efficiency. In reality and after factoring diminishing returns...

 

[Megamind.]

If they were originally targeting a late 2019 / early 2020 launch, and if they thought the most compelling aspect of the PS5 gen was going to be desktop-class cpu, SSD, and hw-assisted RT, I think it's reasonable.

Look at it this way: X1X has 33% more TF than PS4 Pro, which would be the same as a 12TF XSX versus a 9.1TF PS5. Similarly, PS5 (in the 9.1TF scenario) was expected to come in $100 cheaper than XSX. If that's the performance/price delta, and Sony similarly thought they'd hit the market 9-12 months ahead of MS, that's a really good trade to make.

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A mid gen upgrade is a very different situation than a new generation

Also, since they targeted to have RT in the console and have features that GPUs at the time didnt have, which means they opted to have a more capable machine. It doesnt really add up to take the RT technology and leave behind the RDNA2 or go with a smaller number of TF.

There seems to be a lack of consistency here to me.

 

[ekim]

Hm... some guy that allegedly worked on the PS5 OS:

PlayStation creates digital games where players play together inside imaginary worlds. Games tell immersive stories through journeys of exploration, discovery and healthy competition. I was lucky to join the console, mobile and web platform team as a UX/UI Designer to help the design team explore and define what the next gen. PlayStation 5 ecosystem would feel and look like for the future of gaming. I helped with OS system architecture, smart library on console and downloading games to play on web and mobile.

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Source: http://www.jamieypark.com/playstation
his CV: http://www.jamieypark.com/s/Jamie-Park-Resume-2019.pdf

Smart Library could be something like Smart Delivery?
The part with "downloading games to play on web and mobile" sounds weird.

 

[THEVOID]

To appreciate it you would have to be considering a very specific scenario. One where you have spare batteries around you when your batteries die.

If you don't the hassle of leaving your house and going to et batteries and coming back surely outweighs the hassle of just plugging in the controller.

Hell, take my use case for instance. I have a 6ft long USB (both A and C) cable plugged into warts right next to my couch. I use it to charge my phone, switch, and controller. In the event my controller dies on me, I can still plug it in and use it as a tethered controller. I absolutely get the convenience of just swapping batteries, but that ultimately gets expensive over time and as I said, is entirely contingent on you having spares around, to begin with.

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You know they make rechargeable batteries?

 

[Garrett 2U]

To appreciate it you would have to be considering a very specific scenario. One where you have spare batteries around you when your batteries die.

If you don't the hassle of leaving your house and going to et batteries and coming back surely outweighs the hassle of just plugging in the controller.

Hell, take my use case for instance. I have a 6ft long USB (both A and C) cable plugged into warts right next to my couch. I use it to charge my phone, switch, and controller. In the event my controller dies on me, I can still plug it in and use it as a tethered controller. I absolutely get the convenience of just swapping batteries, but that ultimately gets expensive over time and as I said, is entirely contingent on you having spares around, to begin with.

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I have had the same 6 rechargeable batteries since December 2014.

 

[gremlinz1982]

To appreciate it you would have to be considering a very specific scenario. One where you have spare batteries around you when your batteries die.

If you don't the hassle of leaving your house and going to et batteries and coming back surely outweighs the hassle of just plugging in the controller.

Hell, take my use case for instance. I have a 6ft long USB (both A and C) cable plugged into warts right next to my couch. I use it to charge my phone, switch, and controller. In the event my controller dies on me, I can still plug it in and use it as a tethered controller. I absolutely get the convenience of just swapping batteries, but that ultimately gets expensive over time and as I said, is entirely contingent on you having spares around, to begin with.

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You buy rechargable batteries.
Have a charging kit.
I always have more batteries than I needed. Charged them when I went to bed, took one set when I needed them. Change to the extra set when one set ran out.

How often does one need to get rid of rechargable batteries? How much do they cost?

 

[Brohan]

Github data is just a BC compatibility test suite. It's very limited in scope and, thus, deriving any hard conclusions from that besides that yeah, Sony seems to be focused on getting BC working right, is extremely foolish.

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I agree that it lacks context and that no definitive conclusions should be drawn from it. I was simply telling DrKeo where I think the idea that the PS5 might have a seperate RT solution comes from.

 

[RF Switch]

I have had the same 6 rechargeable batteries since December 2014.

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ive been using the same since 2013 and my day one Xbox controller still works perfect. My launch DS4 has pretty much become a wired controller and has been. I don't use either anymore but rechargeable was awesome and I was sad when fans pushed Xbox to change

 

[gozu]

The thing though is that it matters. Just not in the way we are looking at it here.

12TF vs 9TF (or even 10TF) doesn't make for a world of difference technically speaking. At least not an obviously noticeable one. It would come down to a rez difference with zero impact on framerates. So say a game is running at native 4k on the XSX, the same game would be running at like 1800/1900p on the PS5. But everything else would be the same and the PS5 may even have faster loading (but to the tune of like 1/2 secs which gain would mean nothing).

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That's the best case scenario. Worst case are games with unstable 30FPS on PS5 and stable on SeX.

The issue comes with game media. Not only would every single DF coverage point out that the XSX version is the "better" version because of its rez advantage (that may be indistinguishable to the naked eye bt is there nonetheless). Eery other media publications would use the XSX as its primary review sku. That's a lot of mindshare winning on the part of the XSX.

Now more than ever sony would really have to differentiate itself with its first-party output of games, services, and third-party deals. But it would be hubris to just assume that MS will not be able to match sony in those areas too. It would help a lot if the PS5 comes in at $50-$100 less than whatever the XSX cost if there is like a 2-3TF power difference. Sony can only justify matching the price of the XSX if its better in other areas, like say bigger SSD, more RAM...etc.

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All true, and it is very likely the PS5 will have the same SSD and RAM as SeX. Game devs talk. Sony and MS always know what's going on in the other camp. That's how Sony knew to upgrade the RAM to 8GB last time around, and to tack on an nVidia GPU the time before that. So price is the only differentiator of note as you surmised.

What Nintendo does doesn't play into this war, the PS and Xbox are called the HD twins for a reason. They are in absolute direct competition with each other in every sense of the word and the success of one is directly tied to the failure of the other. That's just a simple fact. In a generation where sony sells over 100M consoles, MS sales would suffer. In one where MS sells over 80M consoles sony sales would suffer.

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More truth.

The only "significant cost" sony would need to add to the PS5 to support VR is a USB type C port.

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Cost effective but not necessarily true. USB-C currently tops out @ 40Gbps in its fastest thunderbolt 3 incarnation. HDMI 2.1 tops out at 48Gbps.

PSVR 120Hz required 11 out of 18 Gbps available on HDMI 2.0 for 1080p SDR. PSVR2 would require 44.55 Gbps to do so at 4k HDR. I am afraid we might need a control box that ingests both HDMI 2.1 and USB-C and combines them in a proprietary cable unless Sony drops refresh rate to a more reasonable 90Hz. (or goes wireless! If it goes wireless the video would be heavily compressed to way under 40 Gbps )

 

[ShinAmano]

But you can just... put your controller in a dock?

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And then not play while they charge...

 

[Angst]

And then not play while they charge...

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the elite 2 has a 40 hour battery. You aren't playing 40 hours straight.

 

[Aliand]

Seems allot of you are basing your power difference assumptions based on yesteryear tech....y'all have no idea what's in these machines to declare 3 teraflops a non issue.

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Speculations in the same vein as taking the 3tf difference for granted I guess ? ☺️

 

[Outrun]

You buy rechargable batteries.
Have a charging kit.
I always have more batteries than I needed. Charged them when I went to bed, took one set when I needed them. Change to the extra set when one set ran out.

How often does one need to get rid of rechargable batteries? How much do they cost?

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Eneloops 4 life.

 

[MizziPizzi]

Not that I think it will be 9tf, but when did we all become obsessed with power and thinking it is the be all and end all of a console.

Being the most powerful console doesn't mean it will be the best by default. Games are what sells a console.

Anyway, I think both will be pretty equal and both will be fantastic machines. Lot to look forward to this year!

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Oh I dont care about the power difference, I'm picking up a PS5 at launch just as I did with 3 and 4, I'm speaking more in terms of marketing possibilities. I mean some people are using the one X as an example that power doesn't matter but lets not forget that the it was released at the end of 2017 when Sony was already way ahead of MS in terms of sales.. Sony are facing a very different and more aggressive MS at the start of next gen with alot of good things going for them. So handing them another advantage to market wouldn't be wise....Then again as you said its the game that sells the consoles and I might just be grasping :)

 

[ShinAmano]

the elite 2 has a 40 hour battery. You aren't playing 40 hours straight.

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I do agree the elite 2 is special. I have never had a controller with built in batteries last this long...it is uncanny. If all worked this way I would be good with it...otherwise batteries is my preference.

 

[Brees2Thomas]

Github data is just a BC compatibility test suite. It's very limited in scope and, thus, deriving any hard conclusions from that besides that yeah, Sony seems to be focused on getting BC working right, is extremely foolish.

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And yet so many people are going with the 9TF narrative with only this one probably irrelevant leak to support the idea. That's what makes Sony's silence even more maddening when I think about it. It actually makes Github more credible IMO.

 

[Axel Stone]

Eneloops 4 life.

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o/

 

[Outrun]

And yet so many people are going with the 9TF narrative with only this one probably irrelevant leak to support the idea. That's what makes Sony's silence even more maddening when I think about it. It actually makes Github more credible IMO.

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The selfish part of me just wants Sony to Tweet something like MS did.

Sony is playing their own game though. And they are doing what is good for them.

 

[III-V]

Rechargeable is much better than throwaway batteries cluttering up landfills and leaking into our water supplies.

 

[isahn]

please, not the proxy warring on internal vs rechargeable batteries

 

[Angst]

I do agree the elite 2 is special. I have never had a controller with built in batteries last this long...it is uncanny. If all worked this way I would be good with it...otherwise batteries is my preference.

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I think the only controller in existence thats battery life doesn't last at least through an entire playthrough is the dualshock 4.

 

[Axel Stone]

please, not the proxy warring on internal vs rechargeable batteries

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To be fair, I think team swappable batteries has lost the war anyway. I expect that the internal battery in the Elite v2 is a taste of things to come.

 

[Qash_effect]

People trying to downplay the power disparity if true on the basis that the price and first party exclusives are more important are forgetting about the huge importance of third party games which bring in huge revenues streams for both companies. First party games can't compete with the residual income that the huge third party games bring in through their multiple streams of revenue with each game they release. It's probably why the multiplayer/service side is something that Microsoft try to focus on so much and that Sony according to rumours will try and focus some more on this time. Personally I couldn't care less about multiplayer but it's where the GP play games and third party games are still the biggest influencer. With that in mind if rumours are true and Microsoft will have a cheaper console for price considering consumers and a powerful one for games enthusiasts and early adopters it puts Sony in a difficult situation if again rumours about the PS5 are true. Even if sony do and will sell a shit load of consoles it's still in their interest to minimise sales indirectly of Microsoft simply based on where the mass will play third party games will be the console with he largest momentum and ability to make consistent revenue. The idea of Sony releasing a stuck in the middle console at 400 dollars at 9tf as market leaders at the same time as their direct competitors (not Nintendo) just seems to lack ambition and the DNA of Sony gaming to now. Maybe they should surprise and release two models as well.

Anyway as I said in a previous post I still expect Sony to be the market leaders based on worldwide stability and support (not price) and the customer loyalty and the games available on it both first third and first party but if the power disparity is as rumoured and there will be two consoles from Microsoft I expect the gap to be smaller than this time. Early adopters are an important part of the momentum building and I really hope Sony knocks it out the park when they reveal the console because I would prefer a single system in my house but the best one to play the next cd project games, rockstar games and if the next mass effect game ever comes out/or remake.

If Sony had the most powerful console I don't think they would have skipped E3 and it has given Microsoft basically the whole floor to themselves to reveal their console formally to the world on the biggest gaming platform still. They have also been very consistent and confident in their message thus far. I hope sonys own event still happens which I'm sure it will as they will use their strengths too but all this silence and confusion with the reveal hopefully comes to something good which is a better console that in terms of raw power and tf's is at least very close to the competition!

The hype for a Sony console will always be huge - just look at the ps5 logo reveal but here hoping the console matches the hype and is future proof for a while and innovative and representative of Sonys premium history in gaming.

 

[DrKeo]

So what do you think about the theory that only Navi lite was available for testing at the time of GitHub, so that's why Sony had to use a 36-40 CU APU to test Navi BC?

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I think that it's ludicrous to think that in July 2019, a few months before almost final units are ready (buggy, but 99% there, just like the XSX Phil has at his home since December), there is no silicon to test. They had Oberon A0 and B0 tests, that's two different PS5 iGPUs tested and not some kind of 5700 used to test PS4 BC somehow. 2019 was supposed to be the year AMD and Sony/MS make final adjustments to the APU, fixing bugs, see if certain areas are overheating, etc.. Unless something unexpected has happened, whatever we get in November 2020 was already tested and tweaked during 2019.

So yes, I believe the tested chips (and there are three PS5 chips tested, ArielB0, OberonA0 and OberonB0) are PS5 chips. What I don't know is if we've seen the full chip or just some parts of it because of how the tests centered around BC. There are some hints in the leak that suggest it's the full iGPU (file names that call it "native" and comments that call it "full chip") but we can't tell for sure. After these tests, Oberon continued development and went through revisions all the way up to OberonE0. IMO that is the proof that Oberon is the final PS5 iGPU, no company spends millions on revisions up to E0 months before the chip needs to be in a sample console if that chip isn't going into that console.

If I have to guess, I would say that Oberon is the PS5 iGPU and it is one of two options:
1) 2 SEs with 40 CUs, 36 active.
2) 3 SEs with 60 CUs, 54 active.

Another option is that Sony's "secret sauce" has decoupled the SE from the realtime disabling of hardware and in that case, anything is possible, every CU count that is devisable by 4 coupled with 2 SEs.

IMO option #1 is the most likely considering option #2 @2Ghz will probably make the XSX (which is all out balls to the wall console design) seem like a tiny ice cube. But who knows, anything is possible.

I think the speculation that Sony might have their own RT solution is based on the fact that the Github leak was missing any reference to RT when it comes to what people think might be the PS5. While we know that the PS5 does have a hardware based solution.

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It was missing VRS too. The leak is a list an intern has compiled, gathering tests in excel files. If something is missing it doesn't mean it's not there, just that it wasn't tested yet or the intern hasn't placed it in his files. We didn't get exposed to everything AMD was doing, we just got a glimpse into some data an intern put in some files, if something is missing it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

And yet so many people are going with the 9TF narrative with only this one probably irrelevant leak to support the idea. That's what makes Sony's silence even more maddening when I think about it. It actually makes Github more credible IMO.

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Just to show how we're missing important info/context here is that Komachi has mentioned data from a chip (one of the Oberon revisions, IIRC) that has the same compatibility modes but at least 40CUs (and, IIRC, he posted it with a ??? for the total number of CUs).

 

[CrazyNomad]

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Oh and about cross-gen games, square enix said they will be making cross-gen games for awhile because of BC

Square Enix won't make Xbox Series X or PS5 exclusives for a while, favors cross-gen for now

It'll be some time before the current hardware is cut off from Square Enix games.

www.windowscentral.com

 

[DavidDesu]

Well it'll definitely be hilarious if the PS5 turns out to be at a similar level to the Series X after all these threads and posts of concern. Who knows though. I still have faith that Sony wouldn't drop the ball that badly though, as if they had missed a trick that somehow Microsoft hasn't.

Then again maybe price reigns and they willingly have a bit of a weaker console in terms of GPU to get to a certain price point. like others have said if the difference is Pro to One X levels and PS5 is like 100 cheaper then I don't think Sony will be losing too many gamers jumping ship in the generational transition, especially if they have at least a couple of amazing looking sequels or fresh games in the works. Even an "underpowered" PS5 will be producing jaw dropping visuals that we cannot even fathom right now, I'm not sure the average person will see a big difference.

I just want some information soon though, it's getting tedious n

 

[Deleted member 27471]

You buy rechargable batteries.
Have a charging kit.
I always have more batteries than I needed. Charged them when I went to bed, took one set when I needed them. Change to the extra set when one set ran out.

How often does one need to get rid of rechargable batteries? How much do they cost?

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In a time where ppl argue digital is more convenient because they don't have to switch disks, I'm surprised how okay ppl are with switching batteries.

It honestly sounds like a pain in the ass to me. I hate clutter, and I have enough of it from game accessories. Having to keep batteries around to keep my controller powered doesn't interest me. However, it's not something I've ever had to do, so It just seems even more inconvenient than maybe to someone is that has done it for years already.

 

[DixieDean82]

If a PS5 8TF is true, now we know why they have not had a press conference. Ashamed to show it! /s

 

[Bazz Bazz]

Rechargeable is much better than throwaway batteries cluttering up landfills and leaking into our water supplies.

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Time to start a new survey, after the with/without controller, with/without battery?
Maybe Sony can here save 1$ and up TF to 8.1 :D

 

[Secretofmateria]

One benefit of a virus caused delay is that sony might be able to increase the spec in that time

 

[Deleted member 60993]

8 PS4 TF = PS4 gfx @ 4K
8 Next Gen RDNA TF = next gen gfx @ 4K

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I can't believe even you are doing this between architectural TF conversion thing. Really disappointing coming from a tech guru like yourself. Just stop alluding to stuff, come out and say if you believe PS5 is 9TF and that is totally fine. You can say that it is your speculation and no different from the rest of ours. It seems to me you are trying your damnest to beat around the bushes and avoid saying your own goddamn opinion for fear of either being held up by double standards since you are verified and one of the DF figures or revealing a source of your knowledge that is the basis of your opinion... If you preface whatever you are saying with those are your opinion, then it won't be considered here as 'insider' stuff or ' leaks' or whatever. But on the other Han if you are writing stuff with your verified persona then please expound your statements, and explain more than two-three sentences each post which are similar to those 'insider' puzzles and hints and alludes, that is getting tiresome. This here is presented as you reminding us of scientific facts like water boils at hundred degrees celsius or something to that accord without really expounding upon it, when every other literate person also knows that fact but also knows that, that 100 degrees figure also depends on the altitude and thus the fact is scientifically lacking in detail... and back to my original point; you are not saying all that you know or want to say, but alluding to something or else why would you took it upon yourself to fact check and correct that specific statement from another poster according to your knowledge without giving us the bigger picture.

 

[SharpX68K]

Imagine playing Elden Ring, enhanced for the Tower of Power, aka Xbox Series X.

 

[Brees2Thomas]

I think that it's ludicrous to think that in July 2019, a few months before almost final units are ready (buggy, but 99% there, just like the XSX Phil has at his home since December), there is no silicon to test. They had Oberon A0 and B0 tests, that's two different PS5 iGPUs tested and not some kind of 5700 used to test PS4 BC somehow. 2019 was supposed to be the year AMD and Sony/MS make final adjustments to the APU, fixing bugs, see if certain areas are overheating, etc.. Unless something unexpected has happened, whatever we get in November 2020 was already tested and tweaked during 2019.

So yes, I believe the tested chips (and there are three PS5 chips tested, ArielB0, OberonA0 and OberonB0) are PS5 chips. What I don't know is if we've seen the full chip or just some parts of it because of how the tests centered around BC. There are some hints in the leak that suggest it's the full iGPU (file names that call it "native" and comments that call it "full chip") but we can't tell for sure. After these tests, Oberon continued development and went through revisions all the way up to OberonE0. IMO that is the proof that Oberon is the final PS5 iGPU, no company spends millions on revisions up to E0 months before the chip needs to be in a sample console if that chip isn't going into that console.

If I have to guess, I would say that Oberon is the PS5 iGPU and it is one of two options:
1) 2 SEs with 40 CUs, 36 active.
2) 3 SEs with 60 CUs, 54 active.

Another option is that Sony's "secret sauce" has decoupled the SE from the realtime disabling of hardware and in that case, anything is possible, every CU count that is devisable by 4 coupled with 2 SEs.

IMO option #1 is the most likely considering option #2 @2Ghz will probably make the XSX (which is all out balls to the wall console design) seem like a tiny ice cube. But who knows, anything is possible.

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Thanks for the detailed response. Questions that remain for me are, what Navi APU's WERE available for testing on July 2019 and is it possible that Sony didn't need their full APU chip to test BC with Navi?

 

[PJV3]

When do we get the apology email from Cerny for the PS5?

 

[Garrett 2U]

When do we get the apology email from Cerny for the PS5?

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He's in the bathtub writing it now.

 

[sleepr]

If a PS5 8TF is true, now we know why they have not had a press conference. Ashamed to show it! /s

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A couple more weeks and they'll be at 4 TF.

 

[PJV3]

He's in the bathtub writing it now.

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I hope Sony confiscate his tub and install a shower then.

 

[DrKeo]

Thanks for the detailed response. Questions that remain for me are, what Navi APU's WERE available for testing on July 2019 and is it possible that Sony didn't need their full APU chip to test BC with Navi?

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IMO it's not some Navi APU ready for testing, it's the actual PS5 APU at some point of its development. I don't see the point of doing BC tests on a GPU which isn't the PS5's GPU. OberonA0 and B0 are two different iGPUs, they are not some 5700 placeholder, they are tests that actually test the difference between the A0 and B0 stepping in three different modes. Yes, RDNA 2 and the PS5 APU aren't consumer-ready in mid-2019, not even close to the tape-out stage (which is probably around now), but they are in their final stages and they needed to be ready to be placed inside a sample console by the end of 2019.

 

[androvsky]

I think that it's ludicrous to think that in July 2019, a few months before almost final units are ready (buggy, but 99% there, just like the XSX Phil has at his home since December), there is no silicon to test. They had Oberon A0 and B0 tests, that's two different PS5 iGPUs tested and not some kind of 5700 used to test PS4 BC somehow. 2019 was supposed to be the year AMD and Sony/MS make final adjustments to the APU, fixing bugs, see if certain areas are overheating, etc.. Unless something unexpected has happened, whatever we get in November 2020 was already tested and tweaked during 2019.

So yes, I believe the tested chips (and there are three PS5 chips tested, ArielB0, OberonA0 and OberonB0) are PS5 chips. What I don't know is if we've seen the full chip or just some parts of it because of how the tests centered around BC. There are some hints in the leak that suggest it's the full iGPU (file names that call it "native" and comments that call it "full chip") but we can't tell for sure. After these tests, Oberon continued development and went through revisions all the way up to OberonE0. IMO that is the proof that Oberon is the final PS5 iGPU, no company spends millions on revisions up to E0 months before the chip needs to be in a sample console if that chip isn't going into that console.

If I have to guess, I would say that Oberon is the PS5 iGPU and it is one of two options:
1) 2 SEs with 40 CUs, 36 active.
2) 3 SEs with 60 CUs, 54 active.

Another option is that Sony's "secret sauce" has decoupled the SE from the realtime disabling of hardware and in that case, anything is possible, every CU count that is devisable by 4 coupled with 2 SEs.

IMO option #1 is the most likely considering option #2 @2Ghz will probably make the XSX (which is all out balls to the wall console design) seem like a tiny ice cube. But who knows, anything is possible.


It was missing VRS too. The leak is a list an intern has compiled, gathering tests in excel files. If something is missing it doesn't mean it's not there, just that it wasn't tested yet or the intern hasn't placed it in his files. We didn't get exposed to everything AMD was doing, we just got a glimpse into some data an intern put in some files, if something is missing it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

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Thanks for the detailed breakdown.
One thing that's not clear to me is when the testing happened. I thought the github repo was found in July 2019 by komachi, but the testing had started closer to March.

 

[ArnoldPlayers]

PlayStationDE on Twitter

“Ihr wisst, was wir euch heute wieder verraten werden, oder? 😎🕺 https://t.co/tyHYCavUg2”

twitter.com

 

[MrKlaw]

People trying to downplay the power disparity if true on the basis that the price and first party exclusives are more important are forgetting about the huge importance of third party games which bring in huge revenues streams for both companies. First party games can't compete with the residual income that the huge third party games bring in through their multiple streams of revenue with each game they release. It's probably why the multiplayer/service side is something that Microsoft try to focus on so much and that Sony according to rumours will try and focus some more on this time. Personally I couldn't care less about multiplayer but it's where the GP play games and third party games are still the biggest influencer. With that in mind if rumours are true and Microsoft will have a cheaper console for price considering consumers and a powerful one for games enthusiasts and early adopters it puts Sony in a difficult situation if again rumours about the PS5 are true. Even if sony do and will sell a shit load of consoles it's still in their interest to minimise sales indirectly of Microsoft simply based on where the mass will play third party games will be the console with he largest momentum and ability to make consistent revenue. The idea of Sony releasing a stuck in the middle console at 400 dollars at 9tf as market leaders at the same time as their direct competitors (not Nintendo) just seems to lack ambition and the DNA of Sony gaming to now. Maybe they should surprise and release two models as well.

Anyway as I said in a previous post I still expect Sony to be the market leaders based on worldwide stability and support (not price) and the customer loyalty and the games available on it both first third and first party but if the power disparity is as rumoured and there will be two consoles from Microsoft I expect the gap to be smaller than this time. Early adopters are an important part of the momentum building and I really hope Sony knocks it out the park when they reveal the console because I would prefer a single system in my house but the best one to play the next cd project games, rockstar games and if the next mass effect game ever comes out/or remake.

If Sony had the most powerful console I don't think they would have skipped E3 and it has given Microsoft basically the whole floor to themselves to reveal their console formally to the world on the biggest gaming platform still. They have also been very consistent and confident in their message thus far. I hope sonys own event still happens which I'm sure it will as they will use their strengths too but all this silence and confusion with the reveal hopefully comes to something good which is a better console that in terms of raw power and tf's is at least very close to the competition!

The hype for a Sony console will always be huge - just look at the ps5 logo reveal but here hoping the console matches the hype and is future proof for a while and innovative and representative of Sonys premium history in gaming.

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are you saying most people will buy a more powerful box to play third party games even if it's more expensive? Because I'd disagree with that. Price is critical, and brand is important but secondary. Power is Imo a distant third - although perhaps more important to a smaller hardcore audience than the mainstream