PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]

[et3rn1tyGR]

I will put in better context.

Ms is doing great moves. The smart delivery is something special. Really possible because of gamepass since your librar will carry to next gen.

I don't know how Sony will react but what they expect? To sell last of us 2 again for who bought on ps4?

I always thought the next gen would have a lot upgrade patches monetized . Ms move changes that and make it easy for people to join next gen. Imagine if u can carry your library by the cost of only change the he and receiving free updates.

And there is price. Ms has the opportunity to be really aggressive with price and they can afford to be. I don't know if Sony can get on this battle and take big loses on hw.

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If sony even dares to "charge" next gen patches or force a double dip ...it will be like christmas combined with easter and new years eve allong with holiday vacation in a 6 star hotel in the caribean for microsoft marketing team. They will literally tear them apart after the DRM fiasco ...they hide in shadows waiting for the right time...so NO sony isnt that stupid. (i hope).
It will surely be a stupid pr/strategic move to monetize next gen patches at least early on. Please do keep in mind concerning ps3-ps4 cross gen titles it was 10eyros to buy the upgraded version from ps3 version but imho in was justified cause it was a whole new architecture. Its not the same think with ps4-ps5 ...i EXPECT next gen patches to be free of charge.

 

[foxbeldin]

Might as well go all the way and tell us what you know......

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It's too late. The ninjas have him now.

 

[gl0w]

How many TFs is it?

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please do share what you know

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Might as well go all the way and tell us what you know......

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I'm John Snow here guys, sorry. Please see my post on why I think Sony would not allow that, and why the silence from them

 

[CrazyNomad]

Welcome what a first post 😆😆😁😆

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I have been lurking this forum a lot.. took a while to get my e-mail verified.. so yeah haha.

 

[Lukas Taves]

You aren't wrong - it's probably going to be comparable to PS4Pro vs Xbox One X. XSX will probably hit native 4K while PS5 will use reconstruction.

It's just very hard to marry 9.2TF vs 12TF with what we got up to that from insiders. Maybe they are all wrong, it will be interesting to find out.

Part of me would love to see a Power VR RTU in PS5 though, weird esoteric solutions are quite exciting.

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I really don't think we are going to see the same difference between pro and X.

While the flop difference was 40% there it was the memory bandwidth gap that made the most impact and the actual in game delta be much bigger than just 40%.

Regardless of who is stronger j expect both the processing power, memory bandwidth and other stuff such as RT to be in the same performance ballpark

 

[thuway]

Might as well go all the way and tell us what you know......

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Might as well leave him alone since we've driven out and harassed almost anyone with a modicum of information because these matters can make you lose your job.

 

[Hellshy]

1. It does not matter how talented a developer is; if they are working on inferior tech, the gap will always show.

2. People need to stop worrying about Microsoft's studios. They will be fine.

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I disagree with your first point. I have played gears 5 on my xbox one x and it doesn't look as good to me as god of war on my pro. A talented studio with a great art direction make can make a difference. Most sony first party games look better to then what I have played on my xbox.

 

[Aliand]

Sony is too quiet.. remember 2013 when they make a joke about xbox pre-owned games?

Sony mocks Xbox One pre-owned restrictions with PS4 game sharing video guide

Following last night’s E3 2013 press conferences, Sony has mocked rival Microsoft for its pre-owned and game sharing restrictions.

www.trustedreviews.com

and right after the ps4/xbox one launch they bragged about how only ps4 could run games at 1080p...

then when microsoft announced xbox project scorpio at E3 2016, sony right after, September to be precise, announced ps4 pro with a release date of november 11 and again bragged how it was the only console to run 4k games..stopping to say that when xbox one X launched.

I remember before ps4/xbox one launched, sony was all about marketing how ps4 could run games at 1080p/60fps, it was all about that.

Reading the 2 wired articles, you can see that mark cerny talked alot about their SSD speed, all the demos showing how SSD can make open world games better, etc etc etc.
I feel like in 2013, sony went all with the resolution/fps count, and with this new generation, they went all with SSD/loading speeds (you can see with all the demos, wired articles, etc, that they went strong with the loading times) and maybe, and i quote, "maybe", they forgot the others things like power, because even mark cerny said you need 8TF to run 4k games... maybe they went for that digit of power? who knows.

sony always liked to say how their system is better.. this silence is something to worry about.

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A generation has passed and new heads are at the helm. No doubt they devised a strategy to communicate their product. Just need to wait and see what they have in stock.

Imo, when they will reveal, it will be with a strong move.

 

[Deleted member 23046]

Not Japan market. But for Sony I think they do not care to give the attention they did on the past. Ps4 is slowing down fast than PS3 there. I think ps5 will have a hard time in Japan since Sony has a western oriented strategy.

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Reasons of the home console decline in Japan are rooting among a lot of non-gaming stuff like demographic, cost of life, balance between workplace and transportation or appartement size. The "Japan Market" is also the market of video game production and not only the consumer one. And so this gen Sony has funded full fledged AAA from Toyama, Ueda, Miyazaki, Kojima, as offered between various partnerships a platform of choice for other non-endorsed studios to sell their games around the world.

 

[Deusmico]

If the Github leak is what we will get, the difference in performance between the XSX and PS5 will be much smaller than the X and the Pro. First of all, the TF difference between the X and Pro is 43% while 9.2TF VS 12TF is 30%. Second, the X had 64% more available memory for developers (5.5GB VS 9GB) while it seems like PS5 and XSX will have the same amount. And most important of all, the Pro is memory bandwidth starved. Ever wondered how RDR2 runs at x2 resolution compared to the Pro even though the power difference between them is 43%, not 100%? Because the Pro is memory bandwidth starved. If the Github leak is accurate, the XSX and PS5 should have pretty similar memory bandwidth. So I wouldn't say it's the Pro vs the X, it's a much smaller difference. I would say it will be more or less 1900p vs 2160p difference.

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yeah, sony really didn't give enough attention to the ps4pro lots of weeknesses. not even 4k bluray, guessing because they thought it wasn't going to be popular.
(ms after xbox one needed to reposition themselves as committed to console gaming and made xbox one x their flagship)

lets hope sony gathered feedback and data for the ps5 from the ps4pro.....

 

[Deleted member 15973]

Sony is too quiet.. remember 2013 when they make a joke about xbox pre-owned games?

Sony mocks Xbox One pre-owned restrictions with PS4 game sharing video guide

Following last night’s E3 2013 press conferences, Sony has mocked rival Microsoft for its pre-owned and game sharing restrictions.

www.trustedreviews.com

and right after the ps4/xbox one launch they bragged about how only ps4 could run games at 1080p...

then when microsoft announced xbox project scorpio at E3 2016, sony right after, September to be precise, announced ps4 pro with a release date of november 11 and again bragged how it was the only console to run 4k games..stopping to say that when xbox one X launched.

I remember before ps4/xbox one launched, sony was all about marketing how ps4 could run games at 1080p/60fps, it was all about that.

Reading the 2 wired articles, you can see that mark cerny talked alot about their SSD speed, all the demos showing how SSD can make open world games better, etc etc etc.
I feel like in 2013, sony went all with the resolution/fps count, and with this new generation, they went all with SSD/loading speeds (you can see with all the demos, wired articles, etc, that they went strong with the loading times) and maybe, and i quote, "maybe", they forgot the others things like power, because even mark cerny said you need 8TF to run 4k games... maybe they went for that digit of power? who knows.

sony always liked to say how their system is better.. this silence is something to worry about.

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You're article is post E3 and everything else is talk close or post launch. Nice try mate.

 

[gremlinz1982]

Some things can be scaled easily, but not everything. Speaking as a programmer, I would very much hope that they at least have the same CPU.

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Looks like the main differentiating factor will be GPU, lower memory count. Only thing that then matters is resolution.

 

[Papacheeks]

I disagree with your first point. I have played gears 5 on my xbox one x and it doesn't look as good to me as god of war on my pro. A talented studio with a great art direction make can make a difference. Most sony first party games look better to then what I have played on my xbox.

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^ This.

To me that's the difference, you can have a game with crazy textures, high resolution, tons of effects. To me thats tomb raider series, but when you look at God of war, Uncharted, Horizon art direction really makes titles pop.

Even Killzone shadowfall though not a super great game, still looks amazing because of some of the art directing in how the city, armor, designs of weapons/ships look.

 

[BreakAtmo]

I really don't think we are going to see the same difference between pro and X.

While the flop difference was 40% there it was the memory bandwidth gap that made the most impact and the actual in game delta be much bigger than just 40%.

Regardless of who is stronger j expect both the processing power, memory bandwidth and other stuff such as RT to be in the same performance ballpark

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Yeah if it was 9.2TF vs 12TF but with identical RAM, better SSD on PS5, etc, then a game going with reconstructed 4K on PS5 would actually have enough power left over for better performance or visuals than a native 4K XSX version. Really, the smart option would be to go with dynamic temporal injection on everything.

 

[DrKeo]

Something I was wondering - do you know if it is at all possible for a dev to use RT hardware for anything else, if they so chose? I know, I know - RT is right there in the name - but is it really just purely for RT, or is it more just for "a lot of very small calculations very quickly" and has the possibility for secondary uses?

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Both the RTX and the AMD RT patent are based on the same idea, hardware-level intersection machines. They have a fixed function that calculates an intersection between a line and a box (ray and a BVH structure) and a fixed function for an intersection between a line and a triangle (ray and polygon). It has many uses other than visual ray-tracing effects. For instance sound bouncing, AI pathfinding, AI cone of vision, hit detection or physics calculations.

 

[Minthara]

sony always liked to say how their system is better.. this silence is something to worry about.

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The silence is really nothing to worry about. The people that were in charge of PS4 market strategy are not the same team that is in charge of PS5 market strategy and even if they were, the market has changed quite a bit in the past 5 years with the rise of direct-to-consumer video and many other things that can cause a strategy to change.

There's a difference between choosing to be silent and being silent because there is nothing to say. Sony is pretty clearly choosing to stay silent at this point in time even though they have plenty to say and it's a completely valid strategy. They'll announce when they are ready.

Trying to read into it any more than that is foolish.

 

[gofreak]

Do you have a recollection of when the PS2 launched, and how much better games on it looked compared to the Dreamcast? And then a year later when the original Xbox came out and blew everything out of the water? It did not matter what Sony were doing, Microsoft just had more to play with.

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I'm not really sure what this has to do with the point I was trying to make. I guess I didn't articulate clearly enough, sorry.

We have so much evidence that people wilfully ignore to try and push an agenda.

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OK. I don't want to get into this argument, again, since it's been had a million times. I know what I've read reporters, well, reporting, about what devs have supposedly been saying.

I think my initial post was pretty innocuous - again, just that the first party exclusives situation may be more complicated than the multiplats situation wrt generally perceived 'technical impressiveness' if the software strategies diverge, even if one machine is a bit less powerful than the other. Not complicated in the sense that one would be all-round 'better' than the other, but that they might exhibit different qualities and trends in how power is applied. It may not, also, but I haven't seen enough yet to be convinced of that. I think it's a question mark for now since we haven't really had an equivalent reference point for this situation previously, where one platform vendor had the more powerful machine, but was building software for a range of machines.

 

[Bosch]

They already confirned bc, you dont need to buy the game again.

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I mean get the enhancements for free like Xbox smart delivery will do

 

[TheGhost]

Most people choose their console because of games though. The immense success of the PS4 had very little to do with power IMO.

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Having GTA, COD and Destiny marketing for most of the generation did more for them than exclusives did.

Being $100 cheaper did more as well

 

[BreakAtmo]

Both the RTX and the AMD RT patent are based on the same idea, hardware-level intersection machines. They have a fixed function that calculates an intersection between a line and a box (ray and a BVH structure) and a fixed function for an intersection between a line and a triangle (ray and polygon). It has many uses other than visual ray-tracing effects. For instance sound bouncing, AI pathfinding, AI cone of vision, hit detection or physics calculations.

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Ahhh, I see. So a certain variety of uses, but not able to be used for standard rendering. Thanks.

 

[Kerberosorthos]

They already confirned bc, you dont need to buy the game again.

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I think he is reffering to the Ps5 version of the game rather than questioning if the ps4 version is playable on the ps5.

 

[RandomViolence]

I'm on the chopping block today.

I've made peace with my fate.

I will be one with the walnuts soon.

 

[foxbeldin]

The silence is really nothing to worry about. The people that were in charge of PS4 market strategy are not the same team that is in charge of PS5 market strategy and even if they were, the market has changed quite a bit in the past 5 years with the rise of direct-to-consumer video and many other things that can cause a strategy to change.

There's a difference between choosing to be silent and being silent because there is nothing to say. Sony is pretty clearly choosing to stay silent at this point in time even though they have plenty to say and it's a completely valid strategy. They'll announce when they are ready.

Trying to read into it any more than that is foolish.

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Oh there's nothing wrong with trying. That's what the thread is for after all. The foolish people are the ones who try to pass speculation as facts.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Microsoft announces free Xbox Series X cross-buy upgrades for Xbox One games

Plus: Game Pass will continue to get first-party games at launch

www.polygon.com

Update: Asked about whether Smart Delivery will be available for disc-based Xbox games as well as downloadable copies, a Microsoft representative told Polygon, "Physical discs of Xbox games can support Smart Delivery if the developer or publisher decides to implement the technology." This suggests that a person who buys a physical copy of Halo Infinite on Xbox One would also be able to download the Xbox Series X version for free — assuming that Microsoft itself "decides to implement" Smart Delivery for these customers.

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[elzeus]

I remember before ps4/xbox one launched, sony was all about marketing how ps4 could run games at 1080p/60fps, it was all about that.

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There are two words you're going to hear a lot of when it comes to PS4 and together, they change the game: 1080p 60fps

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"Two words you're going to hear a lot on PS4 1080p/60fps" - PlayStation 4 - Giant Bomb

Looks like Sony is also participating in the FPS and resolution war.There are two words you’re going to hear a lot of when it comes to PS4 and togethe

www.giantbomb.com

 

[gremlinz1982]

I disagree with your first point. I have played gears 5 on my xbox one x and it doesn't look as good to me as god of war on my pro. A talented studio with a great art direction make can make a difference. Most sony first party games look better to then what I have played on my xbox.

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You guys are trolling. What sort of comparison is this? One is a game that has multiplayer on every single mode, and the game runs at 60 frames per second. Butter smooth with the rare hiccup, and open world sections.

The other one is a single player game built to run at 30 fps. Gears 5 looks insane, and runs exceedingly well. Better comparison would be Uncharted 4 multiplayer. It is obvious why we never see that comparison.

 

[BreakAtmo]

I mean get the enhancements for free like Xbox smart delivery will do

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Matt directly stated yesterday that Sony will be doing the same thing.

 

[Deusmico]

The silence is really nothing to worry about. The people that were in charge of PS4 market strategy are not the same team that is in charge of PS5 market strategy and even if they were, the market has changed quite a bit in the past 5 years with the rise of direct-to-consumer video and many other things that can cause a strategy to change.

There's a difference between choosing to be silent and being silent because there is nothing to say. Sony is pretty clearly choosing to stay silent at this point in time even though they have plenty to say and it's a completely valid strategy. They'll announce when they are ready.

Trying to read into it any more than that is foolish.

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February looked like too early for a reveal. the ps4 was coming from the ps3 mess and they needed to get their message out early.
ps5 looks to be continuing the theme of ps4 with games as the focal point, having a reveal closer to release is better. IF plans aren't already affected by the global virus

 

[Trieu]

Sorry if I just ask this out in the open I haven't really kept up with it and haven't read up yet, but what exactly are the differences between RDNA2 and RDNA as we know it from the 5700 XT? Is it just the Hardware RayTracing features on the die aswell? Did AMD officially share anything with us?

 

[Deleted member 52190]

I think he is reffering to the Ps5 version of the game rather than questioning if the ps4 version is playable on the ps5.

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I mean get the enhancements for free like Xbox smart delivery will do

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Matt has confirmed that they do have that in place and is up to the developers to release a patch.

 

[CrazyNomad]

The silence is really nothing to worry about. The people that were in charge of PS4 market strategy are not the same team that is in charge of PS5 market strategy and even if they were, the market has changed quite a bit in the past 5 years with the rise of direct-to-consumer video and many other things that can cause a strategy to change.

There's a difference between choosing to be silent and being silent because there is nothing to say. Sony is pretty clearly choosing to stay silent at this point in time even though they have plenty to say and it's a completely valid strategy. They'll announce when they are ready.

Trying to read into it any more than that is foolish.

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I know that, I just find weird, because when sony were not silent, microsoft was.. and they like won every aspect of the last/current gen. now that microsoft is going all win, they suddenly went silent.. even the big games like TLOU2 and ghost of tsushima are going silent, last we heard about them was last year. its weird you chance a winning market strategy with a big new product..

 

[Deleted member 56995]

 

[Expy]

I mean get the enhancements for free like Xbox smart delivery will do

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Cross-buy.

 

[Puffy]

 

[Minthara]

Oh there's nothing wrong with trying. That's what the thread is for after all. The foolish people are the ones who try to pass speculation as facts.

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Agreed! I was merely trying to say that some people should stop assuming that the sky is falling :)

Everything will be fine, just be patient!

 

[RoninStrife]

im betting sony wont even release detailed specs. i think its pretty obvious by now that xbox has the edge.

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we shall see... they are quiet... that to me means they wanted MS to play their hand. Sony will give detailed specs, weaker or not.

 

[Deleted member 60993]

Something I was wondering - do you know if it is at all possible for a dev to use RT hardware for anything else, if they so chose? I know, I know - RT is right there in the name - but is it really just purely for RT, or is it more just for "a lot of very small calculations very quickly" and has the possibility for secondary uses?

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Yeah primitive culling like in the primitive shaders on Vega cards that were left mostly unused because they couldn't be applied at the driver level to all rendered software but needed to be opt-in on the development phase in each and every case for it to work. Now it can be agnostically applied to all software being rendered at the hardware level for some pretty good perf gains. There is also real 3D sound calculations now possible to be included with little to no cost.

 

[Hellshy]

You guys are trolling. What sort of comparison is this? One is a game that has multiplayer on every single mode, and the game runs at 60 frames per second. Butter smooth with the rare hiccup, and open world sections.

The other one is a single player game built to run at 30 fps. Gears 5 looks insane, and runs exceedingly well. Better comparison would be Uncharted 4 multiplayer. It is obvious why we never see that comparison.

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How am I trolling? I have not touched anything but the campaign in gears and that doesnt run at 60fps. If you want to use a game that has multiplayer fine,
Uncharted campaign looks better then gears 4 campaign.

Gears looks good. Has great IQ and some great effects but the overall package just doesnt impress me or look as nice to me then games like uncharted 4,god of war,spiderman,horizon.

 

[CypressFX]

I'm all for that: a video presentation showing the console, games, features and whatnot. The huge media events are really cringeworthy and a bit out of touch with the world we live in.

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They held a reveal/presentation for that new Xperia Yesterday? Hmm...This shows they can do the same for PS5 then...

 

[degauss]

lol. This has to be trolling.

FM7 is the best looking racer out. The gap between it and the base PS4 GT sport is not close. Take Uncharted 4 even on the pro and compare to say a Gears 5 that runs mostly 4K at 60fps on all modes........compare that to U4 single player or worse multiplayer.

These pie in the sky ideas as to how a game running on a 1.84TF console is comparable to one running 6TF are laughable. If anything, games where differences are hard to tell are rare to the extreme even between PS4 PRO/XB1X

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I think he's closer to the truth than you. Non-enthusiasts don't go to digital foundry to get a pixel count and look at a graph before deciding how good something looks. You can't see the forest for the very well rendered trees.

 

[Gay Bowser]

we shall see... they are way too quiet... that to me means they wanted MS to play their hand.

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Or they just have other marketing priorities right now, which is the obvious truth but is weirdly unfathomable to this thread.

 

[gofreak]

I know that, I just find weird, because when sony were not silent, microsoft was.. and they like won every aspect of the last/current gen. now that microsoft is going all win, they suddenly went silent..

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Companies don't tit-for-tat make announcements within days of each other except around events like E3. Which we've seen is not how this year is going to play out. Will Microsoft be 'silent' if at the next Sony info-release, Sony says some things that MS hasn't addressed? Was MS 'silent' last year when this was the case?

There's always going to be points, up until all the details are out there, where one company has said more than another company. Holding the companies to a standard where both have said the exact same amount at the exact same times - or else they're 'silent'/'nervous'/'lacking confidence' - is unrealistic, and either fanxiety or FUD. We do not have the same kind of context now, or probably this year, for back to back 'responses' ala around the E3 2013 PS4/XB1 events.

 

[MykhellMikado]

Sony is too quiet.. remember 2013 when they make a joke about xbox pre-owned games?

Sony mocks Xbox One pre-owned restrictions with PS4 game sharing video guide

Following last night’s E3 2013 press conferences, Sony has mocked rival Microsoft for its pre-owned and game sharing restrictions.

www.trustedreviews.com

and right after the ps4/xbox one launch they bragged about how only ps4 could run games at 1080p...

then when microsoft announced xbox project scorpio at E3 2016, sony right after, September to be precise, announced ps4 pro with a release date of november 11 and again bragged how it was the only console to run 4k games..stopping to say that when xbox one X launched.

I remember before ps4/xbox one launched, sony was all about marketing how ps4 could run games at 1080p/60fps, it was all about that.

Reading the 2 wired articles, you can see that mark cerny talked alot about their SSD speed, all the demos showing how SSD can make open world games better, etc etc etc.
I feel like in 2013, sony went all with the resolution/fps count, and with this new generation, they went all with SSD/loading speeds (you can see with all the demos, wired articles, etc, that they went strong with the loading times) and maybe, and i quote, "maybe", they forgot the others things like power, because even mark cerny said you need 8TF to run 4k games... maybe they went for that digit of power? who knows.

sony always liked to say how their system is better.. this silence is something to worry about.

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I couldn't agree more, this is different than every other console launch in terms of communication. With the exception of the most recent example the PS4 Pro. It's really odd but the only way I can rectify this is that Sony really does have a less powerful console and will drop it close to launch and try to use the PS4

A generation has passed and new heads are at the helm. No doubt they devised a strategy to communicate their product. Just need to wait and see what they have in stock.

Imo, when they will reveal, it will be with a strong move.

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The silence is really nothing to worry about. The people that were in charge of PS4 market strategy are not the same team that is in charge of PS5 market strategy and even if they were, the market has changed quite a bit in the past 5 years with the rise of direct-to-consumer video and many other things that can cause a strategy to change.

There's a difference between choosing to be silent and being silent because there is nothing to say. Sony is pretty clearly choosing to stay silent at this point in time even though they have plenty to say and it's a completely valid strategy. They'll announce when they are ready.

Trying to read into it any more than that is foolish.

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There's nothing foolish about it, we have 25 years of history to pull from. Sony as an organization has had similar levels of communication about all their consoles and reveal many details more than a year out. The biggest exception being the PS4 and Pro. The Pro being the weirdest as it was announced two months before release but also was less powerful than the X which was also announced. I'd wager Sony really does have the less powerful machine and hopes to take a PS4 Pro launch approach.

 

[Kerberosorthos]

How am I trolling? I have not touched anything but the campaign in gears and that doesnt run at 60fps. If you want to use a game that has multiplayer fine,
Uncharted campaign looks better then gears 4 campaign.

Gears looks good. Has great IQ and some great effects but the overall package just doesnt impress me or look as nice to me then games like uncharted 4,god of war,spiderman,horizon.

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It is running with 60fps. That is why it is so impressive how it looks. Iirc it even has ray traced shadows.

 

[gremlinz1982]

How am I trolling? I have not touched anything but the campaign in gears and that doesnt run at 60fps. If you want to use a game that has multiplayer fine,
Uncharted campaign looks better then gears 4 campaign.

Gears looks good. Has great IQ and some great effects but the overall package just doesnt impress me or look as nice to me then games like uncharted 4,god of war,spiderman,horizon.

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Gears 5 runs 60 fps on the XB1X. All modes. This is the reason I used it as an example.

 

[gremlinz1982]

I think he's closer to the truth than you. Non-enthusiasts don't go to digital foundry to get a pixel count and look at a graph before deciding how good something looks. You can't see the forest for the very well rendered trees.

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You dont have to be an enthusiast to see the difference between 4K and 1080p. That is what he is stating, and it is trolling at best, very poor system warring if we were to call it what it is.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Sorry if I just ask this out in the open I haven't really kept up with it and haven't read up yet, but what exactly are the differences between RDNA2 and RDNA as we know it from the 5700 XT? Is it just the Hardware RayTracing features on the die aswell? Did AMD officially share anything with us?

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iirc there was an article wccftech shwoing slides about RDNA1 vs RDNA2 and the diffeernce is that RDNA1 wasn't really a true next-gen architecture and was still bound to GCN in half of its concept. RDNA2 is totally 100% next-egn architecture (rumros say it's already 50% over RDNA1 performance). RDNA2 also offers VRS.

 

[Pheonix]

RT is very flexible, if one console has better RT performance then most games will just throw a few more rays into the scene, making the RT effect that both are using look better on that version. It's not much different than if the consoles have 2TF-3TF difference in GPU power, developers will just render in a bit lower resolution on the weaker console. We are being overly dramatic on his whole TF subject. If we really are getting a 9.2TF and a 12TF console, the difference will probably start and end with something like a 1900p VS 2160p resolution difference.

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Exactly!!! This whole TF nonsense has always been the silliest part of these next-gen discussions. A 12TF vs 9TF'ish difference is all of like 20%. And that is assuming everything else is the same. It however just doesn't work that way and thats what a lot here don't seem to get. That difference would just come down to slightly different native rez, even harder to spot when both are already pushing out so many pixels. And again, this assuming they are equal on every other front.

9vs 12 tf is huge.. enough to make 30 games run on 60 on other platforms

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No.... it's not. If a 12TF box can run games in native 4K@60fps, then the 9TF box can run the same game in 1800/1900p (then reconstructed to 4K)@60fps. At the end of the day, it would not be a difference you can spot with using some special tools or scenarios (like taking a screengrab and zooming in by like 300%).

Look at it this way; the PS4 had a 40-50% power advantage and almost 3 times the memory bandwidth over the XB1. It mostly resulted in a 900p vs 1080p difference. If both machines are able to output higher than a native 1440p rez, then the rez gains start to mean less and less as you go up. Now both these consoles are going to be pushing at least 1800p. Think about that.

 

[degauss]

Yes, you may, Ori looks like one of hell of a GOTY nominee.


If the Github leak is what we will get, the difference in performance between the XSX and PS5 will be much smaller than the X and the Pro. First of all, the TF difference between the X and Pro is 43% while 9.2TF VS 12TF is 30%. Second, the X had 64% more available memory for developers (5.5GB VS 9GB) while it seems like PS5 and XSX will have the same amount. And most important of all, the Pro is memory bandwidth starved. Ever wondered how RDR2 runs at x2 resolution compared to the Pro even though the power difference between them is 43%, not 100%? Because the Pro is memory bandwidth starved. If the Github leak is accurate, the XSX and PS5 should have pretty similar memory bandwidth. So I wouldn't say it's the Pro vs the X, it's a much smaller difference. I would say it will be more or less 1900p vs 2160p difference.


If 9.2TF is true, it doesn't have to be a mistake. Was Switch a mistake at 0.4TF? No, it was the original intent. Consoles are built around a strategy, the only way you can tell if a console architecture makes sense is by knowing Sony's original strategy and goals. One strategy would have created a 399$ break-even console and another a 499$ at a loss console. They would resulted in two completely different consoles and both would have made sense, made sense to the strategy Sony's HQ has laid out. Considering we don't know Sony's strategy, I wouldn't dare to assume what makes sense and what doesn't. Both 8TF and 14TF consoles make sense to me, depends on the strategy.


You can also say the exact opposite regarding the two SKUs vs a single SKU. For instance, if both XSX and XSS use the same 14Gbps GDDR6 chips, if XSS is using a slightly underclocked version of that chip, MS will be buying chips that didn't pass 14Gbps certification from Samsung, "the whole buffalo", which would make their GDDR6 chips cheaper than a single SKU console. In addition, if the Github leak is right, Sony is using 16Gbps chips while MS is using 14Gbps chips which means Sony will be hit harder by the GDDR6 price spikes of the past few months.

It's just one example, what I'm trying to convey here is that even if Sony might have ~30% higher volume, it doesn't necessarily mean they will have a lower BOM per each part. In addition, in such high volumes, 20% more or 20% less usually don't change the price because the supplier is already giving the lowest price they can. Just because buying 1000 units per year is cheaper than 100 units per year doesn't mean 50 million units per year are cheaper than 30 million units per year. You can't cut the supplier's profit margin indefinitely. It's not like if Google would have wanted to make a console and promised to buy 200 million chips from AMD then AMD would have given them half the price Sony got because Sony ordered only 50 million. They would have probably got the exact same price as Sony, the supplier profit margin on console parts is very small because they are such a big customer.

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Great post.

 

[CrazyNomad]

Companies don't tit-for-tat make announcements within days of each other except around events like E3. Which we've seen is not how this year is going to play out. Will Microsoft be 'silent' if at the next Sony info-release, Sony says some things that MS hasn't addressed? Was MS 'silent' last year when this was the case?

There's always going to be points, up until all the details are out there, where one company has said more than another company. Holding the companies to a standard where both have said the exact same amount at the exact same times - or else they're 'silent' - is unrealistic. We do not have the context now, or probably this year, for back to back 'responses' ala around the E3 2013 PS4/XB1 events.

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I'm talking before xbox one X launch... when sony had a huge start and microsoft was still trying to recover from a bad launch.. after the xbox one X launch, sony started to chance its marketing strategy.. staying quiet while microsoft was starting to say things out loud.. this is the period when the marketing strategy of sony started to shift.

I'm just trying to analyze how the marketing strategy went for both companies.. and a huge shift like that is not normal