This.
They only outsold the 360 after the gen was over. Or at least it only came to light by then.
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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]
- Thread starter Transistor
- Start date
- Status
This.
They only outsold the 360 after the gen was over. Or at least it only came to light by then.
Maybe it was Miniature Kaiju, I can't really recall who it was. But let's assume for a second that it is possible to disable a single SA, even if that's the case we still have a lot of limitation to consider once your BC mode relays on SA disabling. Disabling just a WGPin real-time? That's even a larger logic leap over disabling a SA. But disabling individual WGPs will be the only way Sony will have real freedom to build whatever CU count GPU they want without a bloated die size.
The pro disables a shader engine in real-time, not a shader array and not CUs. The X doesn't disable any CUs when running older games. What I was talking about works exactly like the Pro, disabling a shader engine.
Maybe it is possible to disable a single WGP just like that, in real-time on the fly, but it was never done before including on the PS4 Pro which was designed around legacy support, exactly what you say is illogical :)
Regarding the Xbox One X BC as an example, it doesn't disable any CUs in order to support S games, it uses a completely different method (it does have cut performance by almost half). I wouldn't use MS as an example considering they handle BC mostly by their thick abstraction layer and they don't care how many CUs are running under the hood.
Xbox did not more than double the clock speed. They increased it by 7% between the base and the one s. And increased it by 25% between the base and the One X. If Sony went to 2Ghz that would be over 100% increase over the base and pro
Some have clearly not moved on.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
They don't want to say a specific number because things can change.www.resetera.com
different approach for MS BC though - if they have more of an abstraction later then maybe they're less sensitive to CU/GPU configuration?
no it's not
Microsoft doing it for the Xbox one x is not the same as a new generation
The point is that there are multiple ways to accomplish the end goal, and a patent application isn't binding or all encompassing. To suggest that they'd change their whole GPU structure just to support BC mode is asinine. Imagine hampering the performance of a console just to support BC. What they did on PS3 is take out BC instead to cut costs.
As informative as they can be, many patents become visible after a technology has been deployed to the market. The BC patents describe many of the ways the Pro does it. There's nothing stopping them from evolving that approach which will get future disclosures.
what assumptions are being made in the speculation for chip layout? If 3 SEs mean too much die size, are people assuming 2 for series x? If that is 56CU as speculated, does it have other negatives like less efficient utilisation having 28CUs Per SE?
a) Xbox uses hypervisor/VM provisioning which is a SW approach.
b) The way it works on the X is similar to what Sony is doing on HW but on that SW level. Nothing will be disabled or enabled on the hw. It all works by resource provisioning.
regarding b):
The One GPU consists of 2 SE with each 6 CUs in it. The One X consists of 4 SE and 10 CUs per SE.
What One X does in regard of BC for Xbox One games is that the Game VM gets a provision of one half of One X GPU.
Means: An Xbox One game gets 2 SEs with 10 CUs and full clock and thus runs at 3TF of GPU compute (documented by MS)
Speculation!!
regarding "BC is seen as a given on Xbox":
Xbox will use a similar approach on the Series X. But differently. Instead of provisioning being structured in SEs the provisioning of resources will be moved to Shader Arrays because I expect the Series X chip will have still 2 RDNA Shader Engines with 4 Shader Arrays.
A Xbox One game will get a provision of 2 Shader Arrays (each Shader Array has 7 WGPs) --> in correspondence to 2 SEs in the old console
A Xbox One X game will get a provision of all 4 Shader Arrays --> in correspondence to 4 SEs in the old console.
So in result a Xbox One Game would run now on a GPU capable of 6TF (at an assumed clock of 1675 Mhz).
Regarding memory the provisioning will be dependent on the XDK version used. Xbox One SDKs will only get 5GB of memory for the game, Xbox One X SDK games will get 9GB of memory for a game (this includes patched games).
Edit:
As this all works in software it will be even easier than what I wrote above. They may just configure a profile for Xbox One that is provisioning 1 SE for Xbox One and 2 SE for Xbox One X and Series X. That is the beauty of not being hw dependent! Simplified, you just can change the configuration profiles of the hypervisor.
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As much as I want MS to lead by a huge margin, and also believe the Github leak, here is what I think to be the most reasonable prediction one can make:
Xbox Series X - 12-13TFlops: 499$
PS5 - 12-13TFlops: 499$
Xbox Series S - 4-5TFlops : 299$
Deep down we all know that both Sony and MS will have very similar specs, but the one uncertainty is the XSS being a game changer. I for one cannot wait for the reactions once it gets announced.
Xbox Series X - 12-13TFlops: 499$
PS5 - 12-13TFlops: 499$
Xbox Series S - 4-5TFlops : 299$
Deep down we all know that both Sony and MS will have very similar specs, but the one uncertainty is the XSS being a game changer. I for one cannot wait for the reactions once it gets announced.
By the end of 2006 it had shipped 1.68m. By the end of 2007 it had shipped 10.53m. I think.
Amazing, this guy just admitted to selectively choosing information that suits their narrative.
Nazeem based ray tracing:
"Do you trace rays very often? Oh what am I saying, of course you don't."
Transistor
I wanna say March, but there's a lot of uncertainties going on in the industry right now and so part of me thinks it will be later. At the same time, I can't see the reveal being right around the release date of TLOU2, and I know many third parties like to reveal their games before E3, so I don't think it will be May. That leaves March or April. I'm gonna go ahead and say March 10th since that's actually my birthday and it would let them beat GDC by about a week.
I wanna say March, but there's a lot of uncertainties going on in the industry right now and so part of me thinks it will be later. At the same time, I can't see the reveal being right around the release date of TLOU2, and I know many third parties like to reveal their games before E3, so I don't think it will be May. That leaves March or April. I'm gonna go ahead and say March 10th since that's actually my birthday and it would let them beat GDC by about a week.
Because it would make him feel good that his platform of choice is better than the other. People wrap a lot of who they are and themselves into things, stuff. "I am better than the Joneses"
Then we all die anyway.
Because he also wishes that Microsoft would pay for more exclusives
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
They don't want to say a specific number because things can change.
I remember reading that, but it's not a confirmation of anything, it's just his opinion. Remember what I said about third parties having different development kits?
That's what I am talking about here. Where are his sources? Is it third party? Is it Sony's first party?
We need more information and we don't have it. Just because he said that, doesn't make it true. I am not saying that he is lying, I am saying once again that not everyone is privy to the true specifications.
You have to be specific and look how one generic sentence that doesn't really say anything calms people's nerves.
It's simply not enough to convince me.
I was talking about bananas in chocolate coating with a walnut topping.
But i always like to get some technical insight, so thanks. ;-)
I also can see that the github leak doesn't have to show the full picture,
and they were just testing BC.
I think there is a possibility for more CUs then shown in the leak.
I liked how he compared supposed Lockhart specs at 1080p against the same game at 1440p and 2160p. The machine will be fine if it exists.
I don't think Tom Warren has a source for ps5. His sources are for Xbox only. That's the only info he ever leaks.
Shall we refresh some memories? Let's go then... quotes and respective links for the lazy folks.
Hint: he Matt knows the specs for both machines.
www.resetera.com
www.resetera.com
www.resetera.com
www.resetera.com
www.resetera.com
Too bad he stopped posting here, maybe we could have learned more about these consoles.
Hint: he Matt knows the specs for both machines.
Xbox Game Studios |OT6| I'M BACK (TO RISE)
They are very close to each other. This isn’t like PS4 vs. XBO. It literally doesn’t matter.
www.resetera.com
Xbox Game Studios |OT6| I'M BACK (TO RISE)
Anyone investing emotional weight or faith in being fans of “the most powerful console” is going to have a bad time. They will both be great machines. It really doesn’t matter.
www.resetera.com
The Verge: Xbox chief says Project Scarlett ‘will not be out of position on power or price’
He's saying Scarlett will cost and perform similar to the PS5. No more, no less.
www.resetera.com
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
Well, yeah. I’m sure someone will say any difference is huge, but, yeah. That’s not really true anymore.
www.resetera.com
Kleegamefan said:
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
I’m glad to see we’ve moved pass thinking the Github leak was confirmation of anything.
www.resetera.com
Too bad he stopped posting here, maybe we could have learned more about these consoles.
Shall we refresh some memories? Let's go then... quotes and respective links for the lazy folks.
Hint: he Matt knows the specs for both machines.
Xbox Game Studios |OT6| I'M BACK (TO RISE)
They are very close to each other. This isn’t like PS4 vs. XBO. It literally doesn’t matter.
Xbox Game Studios |OT6| I'M BACK (TO RISE)
Anyone investing emotional weight or faith in being fans of “the most powerful console” is going to have a bad time. They will both be great machines. It really doesn’t matter.
The Verge: Xbox chief says Project Scarlett ‘will not be out of position on power or price’
He's saying Scarlett will cost and perform similar to the PS5. No more, no less.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
Well, yeah. I’m sure someone will say any difference is huge, but, yeah. That’s not really true anymore.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
I’m glad to see we’ve moved pass thinking the Github leak was confirmation of anything.
Too bad he stopped posting here, maybe we could have learned more about these consoles.
I still don't get how any "insider" could really make these claims confidently.. they would be based on non-final DevKits, not "the machines" we'll be using next year.
No clue don't have it bookmarked. But he never said it was 15%.
Don't ask me, ask him. But he knows.
Convince, confirmation....
I'm convinced it's not confirmation of anything.
That's all Matt was asking with that post.
The posts before that where ppl starting finding questionable things in the data...I thought that would be enough to introduce doubt of it being confirmation of anything.
I guess reasonable doubt doesn't apply here.....
Nobody said it was 15%.
Lot of insiders said they were very close, or even twins.
Matt clarified at one point that he would consider 15% close.
That doesn't mean the difference is 15%, but implies that the difference would be < 15%.
Yes they are.
Consoles manufactures give the non-final development kits to Devs AND their targets for the final retail products -> Devs tell Insiders -> Insiders make claims confidently
Thank you. This is clearly beyond speculation, opinion, guessing, soothsaying, prognosticaitng, or whatever other verb you want to substitute that doesn't mean stating fact.Shall we refresh some memories? Let's go then... quotes and respective links for the lazy folks.
Hint: he Matt knows the specs for both machines.
Xbox Game Studios |OT6| I'M BACK (TO RISE)
They are very close to each other. This isn’t like PS4 vs. XBO. It literally doesn’t matter.
Xbox Game Studios |OT6| I'M BACK (TO RISE)
Anyone investing emotional weight or faith in being fans of “the most powerful console” is going to have a bad time. They will both be great machines. It really doesn’t matter.
The Verge: Xbox chief says Project Scarlett ‘will not be out of position on power or price’
He's saying Scarlett will cost and perform similar to the PS5. No more, no less.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
Well, yeah. I’m sure someone will say any difference is huge, but, yeah. That’s not really true anymore.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
I’m glad to see we’ve moved pass thinking the Github leak was confirmation of anything.
Too bad he stopped posting here, maybe we could have learned more about these consoles.
But shouldn't it be listed as "what close means" for Matt! It adds context to all the other quotes!
cc sleepr
Anyway here are some more links.
Giving the nod to one platform:
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA
OK, just to clear this up: I did not mean to be enigmatic (in this case at least), I thought my intention was clear. If I was forced to make an educated guess on the question of the relative strength of the PS5 and NextBox, I would have to give the nod to Microsoft. And now, I’m out.
www.resetera.com
What close means in terms of specs.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm
I would consider ~15% difference or less to be very close, depending on other factors of course.
www.resetera.com
Conveniently forgotten!
And you can judge "performance" from target specs of systems that have customizations, and use different OS's / etc.?
edit: I meant to edit my post so it was clear I was referring to Klee's post about "performance".. must have ctrl-z'd or something.
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The quote mentions "guidance" though.. wouldn't that more likely refer to Sony's sales expectations for the PS5? That's usually what "guidance" refers to in the context of an investor call.. how much revenue they expect, not when they expect to tell gamers about specs
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This part of the transcript was previously discussed here. I think most of the thread assumes before E3, but opinions vary wildly beyond that.
Do you have any idea if the price was lowered in 2017 to 499?
But shouldn't it be listed as "what close means" for Matt! It adds context to all the other quotes!
cc sleepr
Anyway here is the link. It falls into the time frame he also stated he expects the Xbox having the edge ...
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm
I would consider ~15% difference or less to be very close, depending on other factors of course.
True that he did say he expected Xbox to have the edge but, he also said before, that he doesn't know which console will end up being stronger.
That's why I think they're very close to each other, like he said.
Respective posts:
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA
Ok, last post: I don’t know which console will be “stronger,” and don’t really care to be honest. Don’t get me wrong, the whole process is fascinating, and I love exploring why certain decisions are made, but the end result is really neither here nor there. One will be more powerful, and I’ll...
www.resetera.com
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA
OK, just to clear this up: I did not mean to be enigmatic (in this case at least), I thought my intention was clear. If I was forced to make an educated guess on the question of the relative strength of the PS5 and NextBox, I would have to give the nod to Microsoft. And now, I’m out.
www.resetera.com
But as you can tell by his other posts, he definitely knows the specs and is updated on the info.
Like I said, too bad he stopped posting here maybe we'd learn something new from him.
And to be clear, I don't give a damn if PS5 is stronger than XSX or not. I'm just saying the github thing some of you guys keep pushing is not what PS5 will end up being.
I think both systems will be very close, something like 11 vs 12 TF (worse case PS5 ~10.24 TF), both will have advantages and disavantages. Both will be great machines.
User banned (1 month): Trolling, console warring over multiple posts. Long history of infractions for the same thing.
Or something like:
XSX 12TF $400
PS5 9TF $499
XSS 6TF $199
XSX 12TF $400
PS5 9TF $499
XSS 6TF $199
- Status