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Which team are you on?

  • Double Team (1997)

  • Team Walnut

  • The A-Team

  • Team "No One Can Stop Mr. Domino"

  • Sports Team

  • "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel."

  • Team Margarita


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chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
The first AMD Gonzalo linked to PS5 appear January/February 2019 on internet. It means that some test on Navi architecture for consoles begins end of 2018.

The people at least on AMD and So y side had a good idea of Navi flood efficiency long ago. So much nonsense here.
 

OneThirtyEight

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
5,652
I have come to the conclusion that we should shut down Resetera til' there's some real announcments happening. For everyones health.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
When Jason will have hard numbers backed up by multiple sources, he will write a story about it. Right now, before he says anything in the podcast, he adds a disclaimer in the vein of "don't quote me on that" or "I think that".

Attempts to analyze every word that comes out of insiders/reporters' mouths is the reason why they are staying away from this thread like wildfire. Just look at the "over 10.7TF" comment Jason had made and the nonsense it generated over here in the past months and it's easy to understand why.
I doubt it. Jason has purposefully said he doesn't turn all these things said in confidence into a story. Given his track record, he can actually afford to be discretionary.
 

EagleClaw

Member
Dec 31, 2018
10,682
Ok. Saw your edit... and on that note, I agree with you... in truth, I have always agreed with what you were saying and understood you.

What I am saying though, is that no one is "lying" about anything. Because no one has "officially" said anything. No one is taking 12TF tobe either GCN or RDNA because no one "officially" said 12TF.

All MS said is 2x the power of XBX (a GCN GPU mind you). That is an ambiguous statement and the reason all this confusion exists.

Its easier to say 12TF GPU than say 2x the power of XBX or "if we do the math"..... don't you get it?

Yes, we don't have any hard numbers.

But everytime there is some insider that tweets
"13TF PS5"
The discussion begins if it is 13TF GCN or RDNA.
13TF and RDNA architecture is a hard number.
Maybe people believe PS5 will have GCN architecture, i don't know.

Personally i don't believe that it will be 13TF, and i don't believe it will be GCN architecture.
Also i'm still not sold on the 12TF xsx.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
The first AMD Gonzalo linked to PS5 appear January/February 2019 on internet. It means that some test on Navi architecture for consoles begins end of 2018.

The people at least on AMD and So y side had a good idea of Navi flood efficiency long ago. So much nonsense here.
100% true. Cerny himself said that the PS5 was 4 years in the making in the orig Wired article.
 

MykhellMikado

Alt account
Banned
Jan 13, 2020
823
Yes, we don't have any hard numbers.

But everytime there is some insider that tweets
"13TF PS5"
The discussion begins if it is 13TF GCN or RDNA.
13TF and RDNA architecture is a hard number.
Maybe people believe PS5 will have GCN architecture, i don't know.

Personally i don't believe that it will be 13TF, and i don't believe it will be GCN architecture.
Also i'm still not sold on the 12TF xsx.

I don't think people are saying PS5 will be gcn, just that early devkits were gcn and may be where some of the rumors stem from on varying Tflop counts.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
Another tedious week of flop discussions coming right up. 😴

13 terror flops

giphy.gif
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
100% true. Cerny himself said that the PS5 was 4 years in the making in the orig Wired article.

I remember people freaking out because the clock frequency was only 1Ghz.



www.google.com

In Theory: is PS5 powered by an AMD Gonzalo processor?

The first reveal - of sorts - for PlayStation 5 has been and gone, with Sony confirming specs including an octo-core Ze…

April 2019 after the revision at 1.8 Ghz Digitalfoundry did an article.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
When Jason says a 2080 - that's a performance equivalence we can take at face value wrap our heads around. When he gives a TF number, that's a power metric we can take at face value. No conversions needed, as he has re-iterated.

Performance and Power are not the same things.

But but Jason didn't say a 2080 🤪

Quick Bosch this user needs correcting.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
I don't think people are saying PS5 will be gcn, just that early devkits were gcn and may be where some of the rumors stem from on varying Tflop counts.

Again some source said it is spec sheet, you think knowing they have test going on RDNA architecture since end of 2018 Sony and AMD were not knowing what is Navi?

We have trace of test Navi architecture on consoles since January 2019.

Stop to say nonsense. For example PS4 Pro had double packed math FP16 8 months before Vega release.
 
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Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576




Hello.

When you look at this quote, what does it mean?

Told y'all both Sony and MS were aiming to beat Stadia's number.

Does it talk about performance or number? Thousands of posts have poured into it with some, arguing until this very day.

but what if, we look at a certain word in the sentence.


This word can mean a lot of things. Still from painstaking research thanks to the fellows of google, by definition it doesn't talk about performance or efficiency, but instead, as I quote; an arithmetical value.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827




Hello.

When you look at this quote, what does it mean?



Does it talk about performance or number? Thousands of posts have poured into it with some, arguing until this very day.

but what if, we look at a certain word in the sentence.



This word can mean a lot of things. Still from painstaking research thanks to the fellows of google, by definition it doesn't talk about performance or efficiency, but instead, as I quote; an arithmetical value.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

🤣
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,853
United States
I'm probably opening up a can of worms here but Jason putting the TF number in quotations leaves some ambiguity in the matter to me. If he was sure his sources were talking raw TF numbers, I would imagine it wouldn't have been put into quotations in the way it was. The quotations around that specifically makes me think he is quoting Google's TF number and making a point to be quoting Google's TF number? I think this was also before we knew for sure the power discrepancy between GCN and RDNA. Which would make more sense to put it in quotes because we didn't yet know how to compare them but we had a very specific number from Google to compare next gen consoles to.
 

Kinan

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
648
Transistor

So, number of voters seems to have stabilized (169 votes total), and a near final analysis can be performed:

graph5cdj61.jpg


So, according to the ERA hive mind we have two most probable dates: 25th of February, or 21th of March. So far there is an single vote for the latter day (jikevgw), is he/she our ultimate champion and god of prediction? :) Stay tuned. :)
 

aisback

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,739
I'm surprised there's not been any threadmarks so far in this thread.

Seems like March will be the reveal with a state of play this month to tease it
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
I'm surprised there's not been any threadmarks so far in this thread.

Seems like March will be the reveal with a state of play this month to tease it

Based on what?

Hard to see Sony coming out with a State of Play AND a reveal so close together after such a long silence.

I'd bet we don't hear anything until April or beyond.
 

Detective Pidgey

Alt Account
Banned
Jun 4, 2019
6,255
Yeah, somewhat some pages back.
Misinformation.

The patent isn't specifically about MTs. It's about a gaming AI assistant and uses MT as an example application, among others.

Either way it's been discussed here already.

Oh ok, well if it's misinformation I'm only happy about that. I didn't like at all what these two were talking about. Of course a lot of that was speculation. MTX won't die all of a sudden next gen but this kind of extreme shit likely won't happen either. If it were to happen I would hope people stand up.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
What we are trying to say.

It's yes, 10tf in RDNA architecture is more efficient that 10tf in GCN one.

But it's absolutely untrue to say thing like "10Tf RDNA = 12 Tf GCN" for exemple, because it's not working like that.

But in the same time, you can't just say "Tf is Tf so let's compare whatever we want only by Tf numbers", beacause it's not working like that either...
I don't think anyone that says 10TF RDNA = 12TF GCN means it literally. I think when they say that they are talking about performance equivalent... or at least I hope they are. Cause that is the only way that such a statement would make sense.
When Jason says a 2080 - that's a performance equivalence we can take at face value wrap our heads around. When he gives a TF number, that's a power metric we can take at face value. No conversions needed, as he has re-iterated.

Performance and Power are not the same things.
Exactly. And that's is what makes what MS did with the XSX ambiguous. They made a statement that literally does both things.

2x the power (power metric) of the XBX (performance metric). And that statement, if taken for face value actually leans towards the latter (performance metric) because doing so doesn't require any massaging of the information. If they just said "12TF" (and we know they have no qualms giving hard TF numbers) then none of this talk today would be necessary. But instead, the chose to talk power in relation to another product which makes it more of performance than anything else.
Yes, we don't have any hard numbers.

But everytime there is some insider that tweets
"13TF PS5"
The discussion begins if it is 13TF GCN or RDNA.
13TF and RDNA architecture is a hard number.
Maybe people believe PS5 will have GCN architecture, i don't know.

Personally i don't believe that it will be 13TF, and i don't believe it will be GCN architecture.
Also i'm still not sold on the 12TF xsx.
I think that is because that 13Tf number was given at a time when no one knew of RDNA. I don't personally believe the PS5/XSX wold be 13TF RDNA, but 13TF GCN (which would be equivalent to around 10TF+ RDNA) sounds about right to me.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
I'm surprised there's not been any threadmarks so far in this thread.

I'm not.

So far this thread hasn't produced much more than noise and the same old tired circular arguments that reoccur every full moon.

Actual quality posts that offer anything of value have been few and far between.

And the fanboys + low rent blogsites/youtubers have already driven away the insiders that were teasing/leaking info.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
I don't think anyone that says 10TF RDNA = 12TF GCN means it literally. I think when they say that they are talking about performance equivalent... or at least I hope they are. Cause that is the only way that such a statement would make sense.

Exactly. And that's is what makes what MS did with the XSX ambiguous. They made a statement that literally does both things.

2x the power (power metric) of the XBX (performance metric). And that statement, if taken for face value actually leans towards the latter (performance metric) because doing so doesn't require any massaging of the information. If they just said "12TF" (and we know they have no qualms giving hard TF numbers) then none of this talk today would be necessary. But instead, the chose to talk power in relation to another product which makes it more of performance than anything else.

I think that is because that 13Tf number was given at a time when no one knew of RDNA. I don't personally believe the PS5/XSX wold be 13TF RDNA, but 13TF GCN (which would be equivalent to around 10TF+ RDNA) sounds about right to me.
We must respectfully disagree. Also, tomwarren had already hinted 12 and 4 multiple times before the reveal. This would indicate Tom was using GCN-equivalent flops for the SX and RDNA for the SS?

That's a bit too much for me.
 

Deleted member 1003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,638
I'm surprised there's not been any threadmarks so far in this thread.

Seems like March will be the reveal with a state of play this month to tease it
There has been anything notable since Dictator discussed Raytracing but even then we have no official anything from either company. We are currently in the desert walking around the same mountain, the promised land is close.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
I'm probably opening up a can of worms here but Jason putting the TF number in quotations leaves some ambiguity in the matter to me. If he was sure his sources were talking raw TF numbers, I would imagine it wouldn't have been put into quotations in the way it was. The quotations around that specifically makes me think he is quoting Google's TF number and making a point to be quoting Google's TF number? I think this was also before we knew for sure the power discrepancy between GCN and RDNA. Which would make more sense to put it in quotes because we didn't yet know how to compare them but we had a very specific number from Google to compare next gen consoles to.

He said it again in dec of last year so we knew about RDNA and GNC .
The quote could because at that time he was not certain if they would gotten pass that number .
 

EagleClaw

Member
Dec 31, 2018
10,682
I think that is because that 13Tf number was given at a time when no one knew of RDNA. I don't personally believe the PS5/XSX wold be 13TF RDNA, but 13TF GCN (which would be equivalent to around 10TF+ RDNA) sounds about right to me.

Maybe there was a GCN devkit, and maybe that devkit had a gpu with 13TF.
But what does a old GCN architecture devkit say about a RDNA architcture devkit?
My answer would be, nothing.
It doesn't represent any price point or any power point that a company wants to archieve with a new architecture.
So that knowledge is maybe just interesting in the history of ps5 development.

Also, nothing personal,
but i can't see these TF number shenanigans anymore ;-) ;-)
 

Axel Stone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,771
I feel like we should instaban anyone who mentions GCN vs RDNA in this thread for a while, just so we can get through 10 pages without this argument rearing its head again.
 

Chamon

Member
Feb 26, 2019
1,221
Sony has cancelled its attendance to the Mobile World Congress that is happening at the end of the month because of coronavirus. Maybe they get bored during that week and decide to unveil the PS5? 😏
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,853
United States
He said it again in dec of last year so we knew about RDNA and GNC .
The quote could because at that time he was not certain if they would gotten pass that number .
I don't know enough about the first sentence but the second doesn't make any sense to me. That's not why you would put quotations around something like that. There could be different reasons to do it, but the one you give isn't one of them, imo.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
I don't know enough about the first sentence but the second doesn't make any sense to me. That's not why you would put quotations around something like that. There could be different reasons to do it, but the one you give isn't one of them, imo.

Jason said above 10.7 number again dec of last year when we found out MS was\ rumour 12 .
By that time we already knew the difference between GNC and RDNA .
So that would not be a factor since he was talking about a number and not performance .
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
I have come to the conclusion that we should shut down Resetera til' there's some real announcments happening. For everyones health.
Please don't. Let us see this slowly burning and how much will stay sane.
Transistor

So, number of voters seems to have stabilized (169 votes total), and a near final analysis can be performed:

graph5cdj61.jpg


So, according to the ERA hive mind we have two most probable dates: 25th of February, or 21th of March. So far there is an single vote for the latter day (jikevgw), is he/she our ultimate champion and god of prediction? :) Stay tuned. :)
21th of March ?! One day AFTER GDC seems to be a little too late to the party. There is a reason why conference at events are made before opening.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,850
I wonder if either console manufacturer has looked into adding ML hardware to their APUs...
I think it's not a proven fact yet that purely gaming h/w ("console") needs specialized ML h/w. DLSS may be great now but there are still other resolution reconstruction options which can arguably give comparable results in both quality and performance uplift while not requiring as much specialized h/w - which may not be that useful for gaming otherwise.
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,853
United States
Jason said above 10.7 number again dec of last year when we found out MS was\ rumour 12 .
By that time we already knew the difference between GNC and RDNA .
So that would not be a factor since he was talking about a number and not performance .
I think that he was hedging in March and when XSX validated that it was above 10.7 TF of Google power he said something about it. For the record, I think both are above 10.7TF if we are comparing it to Google's Stadia, so Jason would be right about that. There was some debate if that would be the case back then, though. It wasn't a for sure thing and that was what Jason was talking about, imo. His sources were telling him they were aiming above Stadia performance. That is why the quotations were used. My take on what Jason said in March of 2019 is that "these things are more powerful than Stadia" and not "these things are 10.7TF RDNA or above."
 

Deleted member 31104

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
2,572
I don't think anyone is going to do a full launch reveal without a date, and I doubt either want to put a date down in stone given what is happening in China and the knock on effect. It's unlikely that they'd have to delay a release at this point, instead of just under delivering but it's getting more likely the longer Chinese production is constrained. I mean the consoles themselves are probably not in production quite just yet, but their components will be and will be affected, and the manufacturers will probably end up having to focus on fulfilling lapsed orders before fulfilling anything else.

Although that might just be me overreacting to trying to put a order in for networking kit for a project this morning and getting a coronavirus sob story from the supplier about the proposed delivery date.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
I think that he was hedging in March and when XSX validated that it was above 10.7 TF of Google power he said something about it. For the record, I think both are above 10.7TF if we are comparing it to Google's Stadia, so Jason would be right about that. There was some debate if that would be the case back then, though. It wasn't a for sure thing and that was what Jason was talking about, imo. His sources were telling him they were aiming above Stadia performance. My take on what Jason said in March of 2019 is that "these things are more powerful than Stadia" and not "these things are 10.7TF RDNA or above."

It don't matter what he said in march since he repeat it again in dec.
If you think he was hedging his bets or what ever else that is up to you.
But the fact is he did not talk about power or performance and just said aiming above a number which was 10.7
 

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
7,794
I feel like we should instaban anyone who mentions GCN vs RDNA in this thread for a while, just so we can get through 10 pages without this argument rearing its head again.

I noticed in previous threads it was the same users bringing it up over and over. Not sure if it's still the same ones doing so but i agree it is annoying.

I know it's slow right now but if anyone feels the urge to regurgitate old or stupid rumours thinking it will kickstart more news consider playing a game off the pile of shame instead.
 
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