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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]
- Thread starter Transistor
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Right, but we can make some well educated guesses since we know the physical dimensions of the SeX chip and the performance figures we get from that lines up with what MS has been saying about their performance targets.
No.
I consider this as the good last piece of information on PS5 with something confirming the custom SSD. Using the search "the built for purpose SSD storage" in Google. I find great information, this time linked to custom SSD in a data center using the same name. And some information about complex data compression and compression ratio. Currently, SSDs in datacenter use another name and they said exactly the same thing I said for months.
Here comparing it to an HDD they talk about keeping high performance without the need to duplicate the data and they talk too about adding complex compression they have an efficiency of 5 to 1 but this is not the ratio compression because it involves the deduplication of data but if for example, the compression ratio is 4 to 1 using hardware decompressor like in the Sony patent an SSD with a sequential speed of 3.5 GB/s you can reach a maximum theoretical speed of 14 GB/s. This is whey they show this very high number in Sony patent. The difference you don't need machine learning your workload will be precise with gaming and using hardware decompressor you will have some precise compression algorithms.
And the last secret but I talked about it is data predictability of videogames and like currently on HDD having the data as sequential as possible but because random reads aren't as costly than on HDD and the I/O is parallel you don't need duplication of data. If the parallel I/O can cover some random reads it is ok, you will never have a problem. This is the case here in this example concerning Baidu. The data is not fully contiguous, here they write at minimum 8 MB of data sequentially after they need to do a random read but they have high read efficiency.
Baidu Goes Beyond SSDs – The SSD Guy Blog
thessdguy.com
You can reach nearly theoretical raw bandwidth SSD speed.
I consider this as the good last piece of information on PS5 with something confirming the custom SSD. Using the search "the built for purpose SSD storage" in Google. I find great information, this time linked to custom SSD in a data center using the same name. And some information about complex data compression and compression ratio. Currently, SSDs in datacenter use another name and they said exactly the same thing I said for months.
Here comparing it to an HDD they talk about keeping high performance without the need to duplicate the data and they talk too about adding complex compression they have an efficiency of 5 to 1 but this is not the ratio compression because it involves the deduplication of data but if for example, the compression ratio is 4 to 1 using hardware decompressor like in the Sony patent an SSD with a sequential speed of 3.5 GB/s you can reach a maximum theoretical speed of 14 GB/s. This is whey they show this very high number in Sony patent. The difference you don't need machine learning your workload will be precise with gaming and using hardware decompressor you will have some precise compression algorithms.
And the last secret but I talked about it is data predictability of videogames and like currently on HDD having the data as sequential as possible but because random reads aren't as costly than on HDD and the I/O is parallel you don't need duplication of data. If the parallel I/O can cover some random reads it is ok, you will never have a problem. This is the case here in this example concerning Baidu. The data is not fully contiguous, here they write at minimum 8 MB of data sequentially after they need to do a random read but they have high read efficiency.
Baidu Goes Beyond SSDs – The SSD Guy Blog
You can reach nearly theoretical raw bandwidth SSD speed.
They aren't replicating industry grade flash NAS/SAN appliances. Not only do they use specific compression mechanisms but do it for creating hashes to avoid sector re-writes on single drives - it also is block level writes across a drive array. Very different than what would be in a console.
If we want to look at advanced performance on a single flash drive at this level then reference FusionIO. It won't be any where near that but it's a better reference guide than anything Pure is up to.
That said, neither are correct references to what I'd imagine a 500 dollar console will do which will have lower write/rewrite capacity along with IOPs. Let's not use 20k drive array appliances as a guide for 200 dollar SSDs.
I just speak about the compression ratio this is one of the way they will improve the data they can push in RAM. I never said it will be at block level or exactly the same hardware solution. It will be compressed in software into the file archive system and if the devs optimize the engine and the data around the compression scheme it will be uncompressed in real-time with ASICs hardware decompressor leading to higher throughput.
Transistor I make a bet the SSD on the Sony side will be above 7 GB/s for optimized games for compression, parallel I/O and data install with fil archive file made especially for SSD. And I make the bet it will be easy to verify when IHS will open the console it will be an SSD with some ASIC hardware decompressor. And I will not bet it the compression ratio will probably be 3 or 4 to 1 with a complex scheme. It can be a one-month ban bet or if impossible an avatar bet. And the SSD will not be a 200 dollars at retail, I expect it to cost maximum like the BOM cost of this SSD(40 to 50 dollars), it was 114 dollars at retail rand maybe a the BOM cost of the SSD will be cheaper. A big part of the solution is software too.
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Back to the GitHub stuff, eh?
Well, both companys are working on BC, so it makes sense we do it too.
That is a retail price too so the cost to Sony dealing direct with suppliers for a few chips would probably be $50 or less for 15 million units a year.
I speak about BOM cost. I expect the SSD to have a max BOM cost as big as this one if they order it for PS5 maybe 40 to 60 dollars here.
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You believe Sony will be spending > $100 per console on the SSD chips alone? I seriously doubt that....
I've said before some of the parts BOM estimates (SSD, RAM especially) are being grossly exaggerated IMO.
I speak about the BOM cost of this SSD it was 114 dollars on release at retail , the BOM cost depending of the number of order is probably between 40 and 60 dollars. I expect Sony to spend around 40 to 50 dollars on the SSD.
Ah that makes more sense. When you said to me that you speak about the BOM cost I read it has referring to the $114! $40 to $60 is much more realistic.
Can you link me to the evidence of the "insiders" saying this for #1? Because I haven't seen that and I am not sure how they would have that information if Sony is keeping it quiet. I mean it would actually defeat the purpose of "security" for third parties.
The entire point of this is so leaks would be taken care of.
As for number #2, they both have hardware RT, it's just the matter of the word "dedicated hardware" verses just "hardware".
Yes, Kleegamefan said it. You can find it yourself in previous OT's. Its been discussed as naseum.
#2. How anyone can still be pushing this narrative is beyond me. RT accelerating hardware in the GPU.
I think the reason most of the people who are pushing this narrative are pushing it is because they don't understand what the words mean entirely in the context they have been used.
Maybe. Maybe not. Getting 10-20 more die per wafer could easily be $10-$20 in savings for a $5 more expensive cooler.
This whole dedicated thing is just breeding confusion. There is no such thing.
As far as the GPU is concerned, you either have built-in hardware support for RT or hardware that is capable of running RT in software. Now any GPU can runRT in software, albeit it will cripple the GPU, but its possible. So if these companies are saying we have hardware-based RT, then what they are saying should be taken literally. They have hardware in the GPU (be it APIs that repurpose specific hardware already existing in their GPU for specific RT tasks that wil "accelerate" the process or components built into the GPU like TMUs are built-in for textures or how current-gen GPUs had ACUs).
And RT-accelerated hardware in the GPU would not be taking TF's away from the rest of the console tasks?
Are we now at a point where we are saying that xsx has 12tf and specifc hardware for RT, that doesn't even have to draw power from this 12tf?
And ps5 has 9tf and for RT has to draw power from those?
I see it is getting worst and worst for the ps5, and it can only get better for xsx.
And ps5 has 9tf and for RT has to draw power from those?
I see it is getting worst and worst for the ps5, and it can only get better for xsx.
Nice find via that link!
I consider this as the good last piece of information on PS5 with something confirming the custom SSD. Using the search "the built for purpose SSD storage" in Google. I find great information, this time linked to custom SSD in a data center using the same name. And some information about complex data compression and compression ratio. Currently, SSDs in datacenter use another name and they said exactly the same thing I said for months.
Here comparing it to an HDD they talk about keeping high performance without the need to duplicate the data and they talk too about adding complex compression they have an efficiency of 5 to 1 but this is not the ratio compression because it involves the deduplication of data but if for example, the compression ratio is 4 to 1 using hardware decompressor like in the Sony patent an SSD with a sequential speed of 3.5 GB/s you can reach a maximum theoretical speed of 14 GB/s. This is whey they show this very high number in Sony patent. The difference you don't need machine learning your workload will be precise with gaming and using hardware decompressor you will have some precise compression algorithms.
And the last secret but I talked about it is data predictability of videogames and like currently on HDD having the data as sequential as possible but because random reads aren't as costly than on HDD and the I/O is parallel you don't need duplication of data. If the parallel I/O can cover some random reads it is ok, you will never have a problem. This is the case here in this example concerning Baidu. The data is not fully contiguous, here they write at minimum 8 MB of data sequentially after they need to do a random read but they have high read efficiency.
Baidu Goes Beyond SSDs – The SSD Guy Blog
You can reach nearly theoretical raw bandwidth SSD speed.
No.
We have no idea how AMD's RT solution scales, so this line of questioning just borders on more concern-trolling and Ray Tracerism.
Someone on reddit posted a rather interesting theory.
The last State of Play was on Tuesday, December 10.
Exactly 4 weeks later, on Tuesday, January 7,the PS5 logo was revealed.
Exactly 4 weeks later after that, on Tuesday, February 4, the PS5 website went up.
Exactly 4 weeks after that is Tuesday, March 3rd... what do you guys think? Does this sort of pattern often happen just by coincidence? Or is March 3rd the reveal date?
The last State of Play was on Tuesday, December 10.
Exactly 4 weeks later, on Tuesday, January 7,the PS5 logo was revealed.
Exactly 4 weeks later after that, on Tuesday, February 4, the PS5 website went up.
Exactly 4 weeks after that is Tuesday, March 3rd... what do you guys think? Does this sort of pattern often happen just by coincidence? Or is March 3rd the reveal date?
Not sure about this but the 4th March was PS2 release date and 3rd March in EU/NA would make it the 4th in Japan.
I expect Xbox will have the power edge, albeit slight. However I agree - expectations for XSX seem to be too high based on the box.
4TF is coming... All these doom scenario's about Sony getting worse by the day.
I sometimes wonder if some members are hidden marketing employees of microsoft.
Downgrading the opponent to a level we probably didn't even had when Sony was arrogant.
Anyway if the PS5 is indeed less powerful then the xbox and sales don't go that well will this mean that this was Cerny's last time working on a console?
I wonder what MS would do if their console has the clear edge, it must still require a beefy enough upgrade to make people want it.
But then do you want two expensive top end consoles in your line up.
User warned: Platform warring
I can't imagine the Melt down and tears if the ps5 is more powerful than the Series X once specs are known and figures are released
XD
XD
Screw it... I'm betting my avatar for the 3rd of March Transistor. I hope we get something that day. A WIRED article or at least a date announcement of the PlayStation Meeting or something. Getting real tired of these rumors popping up every other day, not sure which one to believe. REVEAL THE FULL SPECS ALREADY, SONY.
3rd March is also my younger brother's birthday.
Also, thanks Doct0r
The file has tests for ArielB0, OberonA0 and OberonB0, so I doubt it's just a random 5700 being tested. Regarding the intern, his job was to collect and aggregate the data, not to do the testing. Each test has a tester name attached to it (I always remove it for privacy when I take a screenshot), there are at least 12 different testers who worked on these tests, not including the intern.
That's not how you build a balanced system. Both console manufacturers are probably trying to achieve peak performance and highest clocks they can for their budget (money, thermal and power draw). Sony and MS engineers aren't trying to hit some random TF number so Era members will be happy, they are trying to build the most performant machine they can with the budget they have.
Building a 54CU running at 1.35Ghz would probably be the stupidest thing you can do. Even the worst yield GPUs AMD has for PCs are over 1500Mhz. In addition, lots of CUs over clock speed aren't cheap as you make them to be because their costs don't scale linearly. The bigger the chip is, the more CUs it has, the worst yields are and more silicon goes to waste.
March 3rd - PS5 BR box art reveal :)
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User banned (1 day): Platform wars. Community generalizations.
Considering this is ERA salt, tears and hate will be far more plentiful if rumors are true that Series X is more powerful.
i think that's already being partly priced in on the PS5 side, mind you there's always some loons who will be unable to accept reality forever.
I think lesser on this one, as many of us expect it will be weaker than XsX. I will be shocked by massive surprise if other ways.
I just want both of them to be very high and very close.
If the ps5 ends up being at 9.2tf while the xbox is at 12, i won't be mad at the power difference, it won't prevent me from purchasing it, but i'll be disappointed that sony could have gone for more but didn't.
i'm going to be more pissed off if the PS5 is another jet engine, i don't even bother trying with No man's sky.
That is one fun scenario.
I see alot of fun times ahead.
xsx is under 12tf, but still more powerful then ps5.
But that doesn't matter, there will be a fallen god.
xsx costs $599 and ps5 $399, and series s is in no sight.
But there is game pass on pc, and ms doesn't want to sell hardware.
Still a lot of memes.
xsx is the absolute top product for $599, and ps5 as series s will sell for $399, with almost the same power.
Everyone is happy, well, not everyone.
xsx and ps5 reaching both about 12tf, almost identical.
We look back and laugh.
Lets see what timeline it will be.
As a Sony fan, I would be really, really disappoint, because it would be that PlayStation 5 is either as expensive as Xbox Series X either Sony take a bigger loss on each console.
My hope is a console less powerfull, but also $100 cheaper.
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