PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]

[gofreak]

That remains an idea I do not want to see unless it is completely optional and has no impact on design.

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Why would it impact design though, beyond the freedom devs already have in this regard?

Or, to put it another way: what about this would encourage a developer to load their game up with pay-to-win mechanics, that isn't already available to them in their own game and other promotional surfaces on a system level (e.g. live areas etc)?

A developer already has total control over the experience in their game. They can already set up their design to encourage pay-to-win transactions. To surface them, and to design the game mechanics to effectively require them etc.

The deterrent to that is poor audience reception.

They already have the freedom to do this, some are already deterred from it because of what it would do to their game's reception.

So I don't think a system level assistant, that can recommend in-game resources that can cost money, would necessarily be opening the floodgates here. It's not adding any new 'license' to go crazy with mtx or pay-to-win - devs can already do that if they want - and it doesn't remove the peril associated with that approach to game design. So I don't really think yet another potential promo outlet - on top of umpteen opportunities the dev already has here - is going be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

(From a user perspective it would also be entirely optional, presumably - you'll only have input from an assistant by calling on it, one assumes)

 

[Brohan]

going by the patents i saw, its quite deeper than that, the AI sees what kinds of resources are most commonly used for certain encounters by other players, and then when the player requests assistance, the AI will offer what other players have tried.
for example, i am playing through nioh right now, and if there is a fire boss, and the AI notices many other players wore armor with fire buffs while defeating said boss, it might offer the player to equip their armor with the highest fire defense rating. However its not necessarily telling the player "go to the store and buy the ULTIMATE FIRE DEFENSE ARMOR" or whatever, that is not what has been patented.

I am surprised that there hasnt been an attempt at an AI assistant for games outside of the april fools joke by NVidia

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While that sounds like it could be useful some it also sounds like it could get annoying real fast depending on how quickly it starts giving you (possibly unwanted) advice.

And then there is the possibility of such a system being abused for microtransactions by trying to sell people whatever they might need to get past an encounter.

Even if you trust Sony to not abuse a AI system like that, there are alot of publishers that wouldn't think twice about using it for their own gains.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

While that sounds like it could be useful some it also sounds like it could get annoying real fast depending on how quickly it starts giving you (possibly unwanted) advice.

And then there is the possibility of such a system being abused for microtransactions by trying to sell people whatever they might need to get past an encounter.

Even if you trust Sony to not abuse a AI system like that, there are alot of publishers that wouldn't think twice about using it for their own gains.

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I'm assuming this would be an OS wide implementation and as such would be something that is optional so if you don't want it to auto recommend suggestions or you simply don't ask it to any time, it wouldn't do so.

 

[Brohan]

I'm assuming this would be an OS wide implementation and as such would be something that is optional so if you don't want it to auto recommend suggestions or you simply don't ask it to any time, it wouldn't do so.

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That would be ideal but you never know what you can or cannot toggle off, especially when money is involved.

 

[TheUnseenTheUnheard]

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I died a little

 

[unapersson]

The AI could just as easily be an annoying sidekick who shouts advice Yoda-style.

 

[gofreak]

While that sounds like it could be useful some it also sounds like it could get annoying real fast depending on how quickly it starts giving you (possibly unwanted) advice.

And then there is the possibility of such a system being abused for microtransactions by trying to sell people whatever they might need to get past an encounter.

Even if you trust Sony to not abuse a AI system like that, there are alot of publishers that wouldn't think twice about using it for their own gains.

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Pubs aren't dissuaded from microtransactions or pay-to-win mechanics because of an existing lack of technical opportunity to implement and push players toward that. They already have all the promotional surface in the world to work with.

If a pub today hesitates on microtransactions or pay-to-win mechanics it's because of how they'll be received by the market, not because they've been waiting all their lives for yet another (probably relatively minor/infrequently accessed) promotional surface.

On the other hand, if you are writing a patent application for an assistant that can offer advice on what to do next based on what players 'like you' do, accounting for things that might be behind a microtransaction seems impossible to ignore, if you want to cover all your bases. Commercially it seems unlikely it would be ignored in an actual implementation too - the alternative would be to just ignore those actions/pretend they don't exist. (And that actually might be a nice option to have, for parents if nothing else).

 

[PJV3]

While that sounds like it could be useful some it also sounds like it could get annoying real fast depending on how quickly it starts giving you (possibly unwanted) advice

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Backseat driver mode, it relentlessly mocks you until you purchase the solution.

 

[TheUnseenTheUnheard]

Backseat driver mode, it relentlessly mocks you until you purchase the solution.

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I can't wait for AR glasses and all the ads that will pop up throughout our daily lives.

 

[KeRaSh]

Kinda sounds like how Nintendo helps you out by making you invincible after dying a few times in some Mario games but way more elaborate.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

That would be ideal but you never know what you can or cannot toggle off, especially when money is involved.

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Do you really think this will be something that is forced on everyone or will just be a blatant cash grab?

The whole reason for this I would assume isn't to make money from mtxs but to help less hardcore gamers have an easier time and in turn keep them engaged in playing games. If you have someone who isn't that good keep failing, they are much more likely to keep playing if they can just press a button or say a phrase and have the playstation automatically tell them what might help instead of having to go looking on YouTube etc.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Buy it for the winner

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Amazingly generous of you.

Luckily your dollars are probably worth a lot of Australian dollars.

I'll PayPal you my details

 

[modiz]

I am pretty sure that Sony legally will have to give the option to turn it off.

 

[PJV3]

I died a little

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That was probably created by someone passing by the ideas office and fucking about.

 

[WordsAndDreams]

If it's a smarter, more in-depth system wide version of something like the network features Persona 5, then that would actually be kind of nice.

 

[Nostradamus]

I'm assuming this would be an OS wide implementation and as such would be something that is optional so if you don't want it to auto recommend suggestions or you simply don't ask it to any time, it wouldn't do so.

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Actually, an OS wide assistant implementation would be really cool. You could even have a dedicated controller button that provides help every time you need it (and only if you want it). In general, it would be really nice if next-gen systems allow for a variety of gaming related tools like strategy guides, news, easy social media access and notifications etc.

 

[WesleyShark]

I keep forgetting that xbox controllers still use AA batteries.

I feel like it's something from the 90's

Did we get confirmation that xbox series x controllers use internal batteries?

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I've always preferred external battery options. A rotation of rechargeable AAs has been great for my Xbox controllers this gen. They last a while, unlike my DS4 which has an abysmal battery life.

If we go by the Elite v2 tho, it has an internal battery. I've been using it since it released, and the battery life is phenomenal. I wouldn't have an issue if the XSX controllers also have internal batteries, if they have the same longevity.

I don't think we know much of anything about the XSX controller yet, other than a d-pad that is kind of like the Elite's, a share button, and that it can be used on the Xbox One, S, and X as well.

 

[Brohan]

Pubs aren't dissuaded from microtransactions or pay-to-win mechanics because of an existing lack of technical opportunity to implement and push players toward that. They already have all the promotional surface in the world to work with.

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Do you really think this will be something that is forced on everyone or will just be a blatant cash grab?

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I dont think it would be forced and publishers can already do what they want with regards to microtransactions but ofcourse this could make it easier and more effective for them.

However i can also imagine that a system like this could be used in such a manner that it stops people from spending more on microtransactions by helping them get through encounters with the resources they already have.

I can imagine a system like this going either way really, only time will tell.

Backseat driver mode, it relentlessly mocks you until you purchase the solution.

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Lmao, this would be even worse than microtransactions to me. I never felt any urge to spend money on microtransactions but i have always hated people giving advice on how to do something before I even had time to figure it out myself.

 

[xtib81]

Insiders have been dead silent lately

 

[TheUnseenTheUnheard]

Insiders have been dead silent lately

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All the leakers have been chipped. They can't say anything without exploding.

 

[gofreak]

I think think it would be forced and publishers can already do what they want with regards to microtransactions but ofcourse this could make it easier and more effective for them.

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I don't think it does make it easier. The core 'peril' involved in loading up on pay-to-win mechanics is not addressed by this. It would at most be an incremental addition of a promotional surface, of which they already have ample acres to abuse, if they were so minded.

 

[Nostradamus]

The video thumbnail made me not want to click to watch it lol. Kudos to them, because i

I've always preferred external battery options. A rotation of rechargeable AAs has been great for my Xbox controllers this gen. They last a while, unlike my DS4 which has an abysmal battery life.

If we go by the Elite v2 tho, it has an internal battery. I've been using it since it released, and the battery life is phenomenal. I wouldn't have an issue if the XSX controllers also have internal batteries, if they have the same longevity.

I don't think we know much of anything about the XSX controller yet, other than it has received some unspecified updates and revisions.

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I'm my opinion, AA batteries are a hustle and the abysmal battery life of the DS4 shouldn't be an indication of being a superior option. Most people have at least two controllers which they alter between charges. The issue with the DS4 is that sometimes it doesn't even last for one extended session.

 

[WesleyShark]

All the leakers have been chipped. They can't say anything without exploding.

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It's the plot of the new Saw film

 

[KeRaSh]

Insiders have been dead silent lately

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The calm before the storm.

Spoiler

...or they just got bored.

 

[FF Seraphim]

Insiders have been dead silent lately

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Well they get badgered a lot. I would be silent too considering how things are going

 

[WesleyShark]

I'm my opinion, AA batteries are a hustle and the abysmal battery life of the DS4 shouldn't be an indication of being a superior option. Most people have at least two controllers which they alter between charges. The issue with the DS4 is that sometimes it doesn't even last for one extended session.

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That's always been my concern with internal batteries - the longevity. I don't have an issue with an internal option if it's done well (elite v2), but I'd rather use a rotation of 4 rechargeable AAs than having to charge my DS4 every other play session. Seems like Sony should be fixing this for the Ds5 so that's great.

 

[Brohan]

I don't think it does make it easier. The core 'peril' involved in loading up on pay-to-win mechanics is not addressed by this. It would at most be an incremental addition of a promotional surface, of which they already have ample acres to abuse, if they were so minded.

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You might be right. Although in my experience they currently just try to sell you whatever currency they have which you can then spend on things to help you get past something. They might try to sell you some strong armor or whatever but it's always just this OP sword or armor or whatever.

I can imagine a system like this being used to offer more hand picked items for whatever encounter you are currently facing. Which could be a more effective way of having smaller but alot more frequent transactions.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Actually, an OS wide assistant implementation would be really cool. You could even have a dedicated controller button that provides help every time you need it (and only if you want it). In general, it would be really nice if next-gen systems allow for a variety of gaming related tools like strategy guides, news, easy social media access and notifications etc.

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Yeah exactly. While I might not use it much, if it was implemented well I could easily see me using it for a puzzle I couldnt be bothered to solve or something else like that.

I dont think it would be forced and publishers can already do what they want with regards to microtransactions but ofcourse this could make it easier and more effective for them.

However i can also imagine that a system like this could be used in such a manner that it stops people from spending more on microtransactions by helping them get through encounters with the resources they already have.

I can imagine a system like this going either way really, only time will tell.

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To be honest, how many MTXs these days are for something that would apply to this? They are more towards extra content/lootboxes or virtual currency so I dont see this potential AI system having any real connection with MTXs. If I am stuck in the next Soulsborne game, the AI isnt gonna suggest I buy the DLC to help solve my current issue.

I appreciate the concerns since some companies will look at any opportunity to fuck consumers over but im actually not bothered at all by this in theory.

 

[Dark1x]

Why would it impact design though, beyond the freedom devs already have in this regard?

Or, to put it another way: what about this would encourage a developer to load their game up with pay-to-win mechanics, that isn't already available to them in their own game and other promotional surfaces on a system level (e.g. live areas etc)?

A developer already has total control over the experience in their game. They can already set up their design to encourage pay-to-win transactions. To surface them, and to design the game mechanics to effectively require them etc.

The deterrent to that is poor audience reception.

They already have the freedom to do this, some are already deterred from it because of what it would do to their game's reception.

So I don't think a system level assistant, that can recommend in-game resources that can cost money, would necessarily be opening the floodgates here. It's not adding any new 'license' to go crazy with mtx or pay-to-win - devs can already do that if they want - and it doesn't remove the peril associated with that approach to game design. So I don't really think yet another potential promo outlet - on top of umpteen opportunities the dev already has here - is going be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

(From a user perspective it would also be entirely optional, presumably - you'll only have input from an assistant by calling on it, one assumes)

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My concern is based 100% on the possibility of requiring an internet connection for single player experiences. Provided this is not the case, it's fine.

That said, I'm positive that some companies would indeed try to exploit this to their advantage which could impact game design

It's a feature I would never use personally and I only see potential downsides.

 

[TheUnseenTheUnheard]

It's the plot of the new Saw film

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I guess I'll have to see it then

 

[PJV3]

The calm before the storm.

Spoiler

...or they just got bored.

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The UK is facing a storm at the weekend, I'm going to read enormous amounts of imaginary detail into your post. I expect big things on Monday, don't let me down.

 

[gofreak]

My concern is based 100% on the possibility of requiring an internet connection for single player experiences. Provided this is not the case, it's fine.

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Nah, that won't happen. Anymore than a 'live area' splash screen would make a single player game require a net connection now. It'll be a feature that simply doesn't work if you're not connected.

That said, I'm positive that some companies would indeed try to exploit this to their advantage which could impact game design

It's a feature I would never use personally and I only see potential downsides.

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I can see upsides in assisting people over 'humps' or re-orientating them in games they haven't played in a while. Sure, youtube videos can do the same, but there's possibly room for more than one way of helping players. Some games already have internal systems like this, a universal framework for it might make some sense.

With regard to surfacing pay-gated items or actions...market acceptance of certain behaviour with regard to microtransactions is always the ultimate moderator. If a publisher is already inclined to let microtransactions dictate game design and doesn't care what certain types of gamer think about them, this won't discourage them, but if a publisher/developer is inclined to be wary, I don't think something like this will encourage them either. I don't see something like this shifting the balance of behaviour one way or the other.

 

[Hybrid Rainbow]

Insiders have been dead silent lately

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They all went silent right before TGA. Methinks, the Sony Ninjas are starting to clamp down on information as we get ready for the unveiling.

 

[anexanhume]

Why would it impact design though, beyond the freedom devs already have in this regard?

Or, to put it another way: what about this would encourage a developer to load their game up with pay-to-win mechanics, that isn't already available to them in their own game and other promotional surfaces on a system level (e.g. live areas etc)?

A developer already has total control over the experience in their game. They can already set up their design to encourage pay-to-win transactions. To surface them, and to design the game mechanics to effectively require them etc.

The deterrent to that is poor audience reception.

They already have the freedom to do this, some are already deterred from it because of what it would do to their game's reception.

So I don't think a system level assistant, that can recommend in-game resources that can cost money, would necessarily be opening the floodgates here. It's not adding any new 'license' to go crazy with mtx or pay-to-win - devs can already do that if they want - and it doesn't remove the peril associated with that approach to game design. So I don't really think yet another potential promo outlet - on top of umpteen opportunities the dev already has here - is going be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

(From a user perspective it would also be entirely optional, presumably - you'll only have input from an assistant by calling on it, one assumes)

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My concern is based 100% on the possibility of requiring an internet connection for single player experiences. Provided this is not the case, it's fine.

That said, I'm positive that some companies would indeed try to exploit this to their advantage which could impact game design

It's a feature I would never use personally and I only see potential downsides.

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Agree with gofreak here and think those incentive structures are already very well understood. The main driver behind multiplayer MTX is peer-driven, and that is a separate issue in my eyes.

I see the gist of this patent as looking at the problem of how few people finish a given single player game after starting it. Just looking at trophies, I can see some games are below 10%. There have been several ideas to tackle this. More games are implementing a "story" mode where the difficulty mechanic is completely removed.

On top of that, we have patents where players can let other users or an AI take control of their game. We also have patents where players can jump into a game at an arbitrary point based on a stream or YouTube video they saw. All of these, plus the patent in question, are intended to help developers keep players engaged with their game in order to expand their audience.

The downside of course is games feeling pay to win or requiring online play, but I think developers have enough tangential experience with many similar mechanics to predict what the player reaction might be.

 

[modiz]

Should probably be mentioned that sony only formed their AI division like 3 months ago, so their PlayStation AI is probably not happening for some time.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

If when playing the next Soulsborne game and dying for the millionth time on a boss PSAI won't just tell you to "get good", they failed it. Gotta rub that salt.

 

[Deleted member 50658]

My concern is based 100% on the possibility of requiring an internet connection for single player experiences. Provided this is not the case, it's fine.

That said, I'm positive that some companies would indeed try to exploit this to their advantage which could impact game design

It's a feature I would never use personally and I only see potential downsides.

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We have threads every month about how their should be an "easy" mode for souls games or other games considered hard.

If this works like the patent says it could recommend those who are struggling to perhaps change equipment, play style from defensive to aggressive or other simple tips that the majority who beat it used.

This way you are getting that easy mode without actually having to have different difficulties and letting developers focus on their vision.

Since I bet this "assistant" would be optional I don't believe it would force games to be connected and I think it could be used to great results in several ways.

 

[PJV3]

Should probably be mentioned that sony only formed their AI division like 3 months ago, so their PlayStation AI is probably not happening for some time.

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I thought the work was being done by various bits of the company already, and the new structure was taking it forwards from here.

 

[Kinan]

So, stats update for the contest (149 votes processed):

As you can see ERA becomes more sceptical as maximum of normal distribution moves to the second half of March. Most are still betting on 25th February though (11 votes), though 26th of February getting close with 8 era members betting their avatar on it.
And congratulations to Flutter for joining the revered Tonky club. :) Next two candidates still have some time , but can start the preparations already.)

 

[Axel Stone]

I'm my opinion, AA batteries are a hustle and the abysmal battery life of the DS4 shouldn't be an indication of being a superior option. Most people have at least two controllers which they alter between charges. The issue with the DS4 is that sometimes it doesn't even last for one extended session.

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Hard disagree. The joy of non-internal batteries is they give you options when your batteries run out, I can still plug in and continue playing if I want, but switching batteries is barely any more of a hassle mid-game than switching controllers. Plus, if you want to use an elite, then buying two is really quite the investment. The fact that I can't use my rechargeable AAs is one of the things that has caused me to hold off on upgrading my V1 Elite.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

So, stats update for the contest (149 votes processed):

As you can see ERA becomes more sceptical as maximum of normal distribution moves to the second half of March. Most are still betting on 25th February though (11 votes), though 26th of February getting close with 8 era members betting their avatar on it.
And one person (Flutter) is to join the Tonky club as we are already have 07th of Feb in all time zone of the world and he bet on 6th. Congratulations. :)

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LMAO at the graph :D

Come on my 26th Feb brothers and sisters, lets win this thing and the rest to sport unflattering avatars while we stand tall with pride!

 

[anexanhume]

If when playing the next Soulsborne game and dying for the millionth time on a boss PSAI won't just tell you to "get good", they failed it. Gotta rub that salt.

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I'm anticipating some games actually tricking the player into a worse outcome in a metagame type of fuck you. Kinda how Hellblade tells you the darkness will consume you if you die too much, despite there not actually being a penalty.

 

[PJV3]

LMAO at the graph :D

Come on my 26th Feb brothers and sisters, lets win this thing and the rest to sport unflattering avatars while we stand tall with pride!

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I do like the idea of the mods spending fucking hours and hours changing avatars.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

I'm anticipating some games actually tricking the player into a worse outcome in a metagame type of fuck you. Kinda how Hellblade tells you the darkness will consume you if you die too much, despite there not actually being a penalty.

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Portal (or the next Bioshock), but with the Assistant growing increasingly more erratic, talking nonsense and giving worse and worse advice.

 

[formasymphonic]

All the leakers have been chipped. They can't say anything without exploding.

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Spoiler

Post-GDC though:

 

[Dirtyshubb]

I do like the idea of the mods spending fucking hours and hours changing avatars.

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Are they doing custom ones for every person or will it be the one generic one for all?

Im assuming it might be custom considering Tonky and the second person have different ones. Pretty crazy from the mods in that case but very much appreciated as this is the most fun the thread has been in like 2 OTs.

 

[dgrdsv]

Insiders have been dead silent lately

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That's because they've already said everything they realistically could.

 

[Wace]

Portal (or the next Bioshock), but with the Assistant growing increasingly more erratic, talking nonsense and giving worse and worse advice.

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God, I hope Kojima won't see this comment.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Portal (or the next Bioshock), but with the Assistant growing increasingly more erratic, talking nonsense and giving worse and worse advice.

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Thats a really nice idea and could be quite fun.

God, I hope Kojima won't see this comment.

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LMAO he would torment players im sure

 

[MrKlaw]

Hey Sony if you're listening - we're kinda not paying attention anymore and we're arguing about batteries. So you can go ahead and announce now, we aren't expecting it anymore