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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Just imagine Silent Hill 1 remade with the care, competence and narrative dexterity of Naughty Dog or Santa Monica, plus next gen visuals and gameplay.
Didn't the father of Silent Hill hint they were making a new game?
Dream: maybe he's teaming with Kojima for his horror game?
Klee said feb iirc
What difference will it make in games? 2gb/s vs 4gb/s?
Best thing ever. That tiger roar in the background got soldered into my brainstem as a teen.
I am not downplaying at all. I am asking questions and give arguments that support my doubt of it being a big differentiator. What's your argument?
Cerny explicitly stated it had "a faster raw read speed than any SSD for PCs on the market". At the time the fastest SSDs were 3.5GB/s. There is literally no other way to interpret what he said unless you just think he was lying.
Nice. Finally got to play that game on the Switch. It's a lot of fun, I need to finish it.
I never played Silent Hill 2, so no. 😁
I would like to go back and try them at some point but I heard the remasters are utter trash.
It may well be that when Cerny gave that talk there were no PCI4 drives on the market. There is now.
When it comes to the SSD yes loading will be faster but we don't know what else it will bring to the table .
It going to fun to see what the devs do with it in the future and how it effects gameplay and gfx .
It going to fun to see what the devs do with it in the future and how it effects gameplay and gfx .
That was literally my first thought. Technology has advanced that we're going full circle.
Draw distance will be sacrificed because we can hide high res textures beautifully and efficiently behind fog. :D
Agree on the model sculpting. I was really impressed by mama, which is the charcter with less clothes that I encounter ATM :
And I think is skin isn't that bad here.
Maybe it is the light, I don't know. But it is way too plastic to my taste. Look at his arms here :
Look at GoW skin rendering :
It would be cool if we could get volumetric fog/smoke that actually reacts to the environment/player.
I'm not in the "console wars". I'm on PC. The console war doesn't exist. There are only rabid fanboys who have nothing better to worry about.
I agree. Fragile looks great but for the others seems a hit and miss.Agree on the model sculpting. I was really impressed by mama, which is the charcter with less clothes that I encounter ATM :
And I think is skin isn't that bad here.
Maybe it is the light, I don't know. But it is way too plastic to my taste. Look at his arms here :
Look at GoW skin rendering :
I love GoW and it is my GotG but something about the skin looks slightly off, I'm not sure what. I think it's that everyone's skin looks really dry or something lol. Someone get Kratos some Olay moisturizer
which is why i am saying if he is telling the truth,
Mark Cerny made a very solid claim that is fairly binary, there isnt much of a gray area.
He specifically said faster than any SSD on the market, and specifically said he was talking about the read bandwidth.
If the PS5's SSD is slower than 3.5GB/s, then he lied, and I will call him out for that, but i dont see why make claims that are non ambiguous if you do not intend of hitting those claims. he could have just said "among the fastest" if it wasnt, which would be a lot safer.
Which is why until we learn otherwise, I trust him, and i think we will have read speeds that exceeds the 5GB/s mark, then again that also means that I think sony will invest some power consumption and cost on that part fo the console comapred to the competition, so I think that this might be what will cause~10% difference in CPU and GPU performance decrease when compared to Series X. Will this gamble on an SSD which is 2~2.5x faster than the competition be worth it in the end? we will see when next gen games are revealed and what first party devs could do with such huge SSD speeds.
As I said to VX1, I am not sure what the difference wil lbe between 2GB/s SSD and 4+GB/s SSD , I am sure first party devs could utilize that to create sequences where the scenery changes in an instant which could be very cool in something like the next God of War.
When we talk about SSD benefits, I always think about Sony Santa Monica and GOW being one long continues shot from beginning to end. The amount of work this team had to invest in order to hide loading, swapping cutscene and gameplay models in and out and so on was probably immense. I can only imagine how many times they had to compromise in order to keep it "one-shot". Cory Barlog had probably kissed Cerny on the mouth when he told him PS5 will have an SSD.
Yeah, with that in mind, the sequel to that has incredible potential. Can't wait to be blown away by true next gen experiences.
Kleegamefan - Next Generation Console Information V3
OP
OP
Kleegamefan is a member who has industry roots, and has been verified by ZhugeEX.
The information they have revealed cannot be verified, but I've decided to make this post to house the information regarding the next generation consoles that Kleegamefan has come across.
It would be wise to exercise caution regarding the information they have revealed in this thread, however Kleegamefan appears to be a person who strongly values their credibility.
Perhaps try to take the information with an open mind, and please refrain from being hostile towards them. It's okay to question the validity of the information but keep in mind that they can't really prove any of this stuff as it could get themselves and their sources in trouble, which we don't want to do at all.
Kleegamefan has said some fascinating things that I think people will be interested in reading about, so I have quoted some of their posts below:
I will update this post with new information from Kleegamefan.
Update:
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 1
PlayStation 5 backwards compatibility
Impressions of a Next Generation Game targeting PC and Next Generation Consoles
Games vs Specs
The Next Generation game that Klee saw was the biggest open world they had ever seen in terms of scope.
Image Quality
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 2
How this Next Gen game compares to Control on PC with RTX (Ray tracing)
Not much talk of SSD benefits
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 3 - (October 2019) The PS5 is allegedly slightly more powerful than Xbox Scarlet
New Dev Kits
Performance difference between PlayStation 5 and Scarlet (November 2019)
In response to is there a 30% performance difference:
Lockhart
Lockhart is a codename for a rumoured next generation console from Microsoft, its rumoured to be a less powerful alternative to Scarlet, however Microsoft haven't revealed anything other than Scarlet, which they announced at E3 2019. This lead people to believe that it doesn't exist, so discussions about it died down.
Discussions of Lockhart have popped up again, from these discussions, Kleegamefan commented on the matter where he said that he was informed that Lockhart is not a thing.
There has been more information about Lockhart from other sources: Kotaku - Sources: Microsoft Is Still Planning A Cheaper, Disc-Less Next-Gen Xbox
This was Kleegamefan's response:
(Matt's post for context)
Potential release window and target platforms for the game Kleegamefan saw:
Xbox Series X could be 12 TF (NAVI)
PlayStation 5 reveal in February?
Possible Xbox Series X GPU Compute Unit Count? (Retail? Dev Kit?)
Post made in response to GPU clock speed calculation
1475MHz x 4096 stream processors x 2 = 12.083 teraflops
The information they have revealed cannot be verified, but I've decided to make this post to house the information regarding the next generation consoles that Kleegamefan has come across.
It would be wise to exercise caution regarding the information they have revealed in this thread, however Kleegamefan appears to be a person who strongly values their credibility.
Perhaps try to take the information with an open mind, and please refrain from being hostile towards them. It's okay to question the validity of the information but keep in mind that they can't really prove any of this stuff as it could get themselves and their sources in trouble, which we don't want to do at all.
Kleegamefan has said some fascinating things that I think people will be interested in reading about, so I have quoted some of their posts below:
I will update this post with new information from Kleegamefan.
Update:
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 1
PlayStation 5 backwards compatibility
Impressions of a Next Generation Game targeting PC and Next Generation Consoles
Games vs Specs
The Next Generation game that Klee saw was the biggest open world they had ever seen in terms of scope.
Image Quality
The game was running on a Development kit
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 2
How this Next Gen game compares to Control on PC with RTX (Ray tracing)
Not much talk of SSD benefits
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 3 - (October 2019) The PS5 is allegedly slightly more powerful than Xbox Scarlet
New Dev Kits
Performance difference between PlayStation 5 and Scarlet (November 2019)
In response to is there a 30% performance difference:
Lockhart
Lockhart is a codename for a rumoured next generation console from Microsoft, its rumoured to be a less powerful alternative to Scarlet, however Microsoft haven't revealed anything other than Scarlet, which they announced at E3 2019. This lead people to believe that it doesn't exist, so discussions about it died down.
Discussions of Lockhart have popped up again, from these discussions, Kleegamefan commented on the matter where he said that he was informed that Lockhart is not a thing.
There has been more information about Lockhart from other sources: Kotaku - Sources: Microsoft Is Still Planning A Cheaper, Disc-Less Next-Gen Xbox
This was Kleegamefan's response:
(Matt's post for context)
Potential release window and target platforms for the game Kleegamefan saw:
Xbox Series X could be 12 TF (NAVI)
PlayStation 5 reveal in February?
Possible Xbox Series X GPU Compute Unit Count? (Retail? Dev Kit?)
Post made in response to GPU clock speed calculation
1475MHz x 4096 stream processors x 2 = 12.083 teraflops
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The next God of War game is something I am sure will hugely benefit from an SSD, in the first game to travel between realms you had to get to a specific point in the map (the realm travel room), open the door with an animation few seconds long, go to the center, click on the travel map which also triggers an animation, then have to spin the map until you find the realm you wish to travel, then select it, then wait for around 15 seconds as the room spins, then light show of travelin the realm, then when that ends you need to wait until the tree branches form a way to get out then open the door again which is another animation.
Basically a ton of masked loading action.
What if in the next game you get an upgrade to the bifrost that lets you travel wherever you are. just select which realm, and kratos will perform one animation, a circle of light gets formed on the ground and expands as assets are getting swapped in a none distracting manner, that would be something that is just not possible today on the scale of games like God of War 2018 ( I know that TF2 has a sequence like that, but its also based on the same environement so its still held back quite a lot by HDDs)
Looking forward to see how it will effect set pieces and other aspects .
Spidey opening took months to do and they had do away with doing other things that way.
SSD will be a god send for IG and should save them and other loads of work to do .
I don't think it's going to be some expensive PCIE4 NVME, at this point i think it's a custom drive that compromises write speed to focus on read, which makes sense for a Console, MS however seems to be getting the cheapest NVME they can find at 2gb/s
I think one thing lost in all this is remember the PS5 won't need the break out box for VR? How does that play into any of the info out right now?
As in, does any VR tech have a trickle down benefit for non VR games? I'm guessing frames per second might be one.
As in, does any VR tech have a trickle down benefit for non VR games? I'm guessing frames per second might be one.
I don't think this is accurate. At least, not for PSVR 2 which I expect to be wireless and need its own transceiver box. Perhaps PSVR 1 could, but that seems pointless as you'd already have that BOB. Only chance is if PSVR 2 gets 2 versions, one wired.
On top of having to cut out a bunch of content partly because it would be too much of a hassle on PS4.
Pretty much. Im not expecting PS5 to have ReRam at all too.
What Cerny said in the first PS5 wired article is key.
If their intent is to use the SSD as a true caching device, or in HBCC, then you need equal and damn fast both read and write, if it's mostly an evict cache from RAM.
But that's also where ReRAM would perform far better too so /shrug.
Oh... Lockhart will have a flat design form
I just meant there will be a 18 month gap between the reveal and when it's in our hands and that claim is now outdated.
RE PCIe4 - it's just the interface that comes with the Zen 2 chipset. They could still run a PCIe3 NVMe drive through it, so I don't believe cost is really a factor?
Yeah, 2GB/s seems a strange figure though plucked from nowhere for Xbox SX though. Obviously there's loads of moving parts in a complete SSD (NAND, cache, controller) and manufacture prices are different from our own, but you can get Corsair MForce for half the price of a WD Black and they both have the same sequential read speed (3.5GB/s).
eh, that would be disappointing if so.
Was expecting 3gb/s or 3'5gb/s minimum
Not that I'm complaining, mind you. The jump from 200mb/s is going to be massive, but still wanted the best they could get
The vast majority of the data in play here will be data written once at install time - asset data. When 'evicted' it doesn't need to be written back to disk, it will already be on disk from the install.
The only writes will be user save data and the like. Even in games with heavy user data manipulation, the writes are a one-time thing (per edit) that are often heavily compressed (for network sharing etc). The data involved there would be a tiny sliver compared to what comes off the blu-ray initially, and written far less often than it is read. And, again, once written to the SSD, the eviction process wouldn't rewrite it to disk.. it would just throw it out of RAM in the knowledge that the master copy is already on the SSD.
(I don't think anyone will be doing a naive 'read/write memory pages to disc' sort of setup for run time virtual ram. It would be hugely inefficient vs taking advantage of the knowledge of what data is already on disk. You might see something like the former used for suspending games - just dump what's in memory blindly to disk, in which case write speed would be helpful... but that's not a runtime process, and if a disc is optimised for reads at the expense of writes, you'd presumably gain back on the resume what was lost on the suspend in terms of performance).
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And y'all were just talking about this, lol. I forgot.
You have a point. So maybe that rumor is dead? It was one of the earliest rumors.
I think HBCC is more of a HBM thing & im not sure if RDNA even has it due to it's GDDR6.
It was dead from the moment it was born IMO. The patents showing transceiver boxes for PSVR 2 already existed then, and their head of VR last year gave a talk about the importance of wireless. One of the biggest reasons I doubted RuthenicCookie's comprehensive trustworthiness.
Nobody of that stature in Playstation has been fired.
Shawn Laden was definitely force out in some way. You can call it whatever you want.
Correct. No way 64 live. I'm in the 52 camp with higher clocks and dedicated RCC for Ray tracing.
Navi has certain clock speed efficiencies and the trade off doesn't make sense for going 64 wide.
Im about 95 percent sure that "Dante" leak with 64 CU and 1455 is a lie. Hmqqq likely accurate but we haven't actually had the dev kit specs leak yet.
I mean it can be helpful for cooling and V is the Roman numeral for 5. Would it really surprise you if they scaled that down and made it black?
This is where Shawn is situated in the leadership chart throughout this entire generation - all the way to the point that he was forced out.
I suspect the breakout box will still be needed for the existing PSVR headset.
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