Playstation strength will be its SSD and ironically I have a nagging suspicion that will be the biggest difference maker between the two.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Yeah, we've heard rumors that dev tools for the PS5 are far more advanced than those of the XSX so maybe they already have a good implementation.
I think even it is 2x as fast in comparison to what MS has, it won't make a big difference. 2GB/s can fill the entire 13GB (if that is what is available to games) in less than 7 seconds, although this is never really the case in any game. Making that in half is not going to make a huge difference.
We had that deleted job posting that referred to the PS5 as World's Fastest Console.
Maybe they'll focus on parts and specs that really accentuates on speed than anything else. Why? I have no idea.
I don't think it's just about loading. I'm wondering how this effects thing like pop-in and allowing for faster gameplay opportunities like when cerny had Spiderman flying through the city.
Exactly. We could see games based on continual streaming new assets.
The SSDs in general will guarantee that because they are magnitudes faster than the current, even artificially limited, HDDs in the consoles. The difference between PS5 and XSX will not be an order of magnitude.
I suspect that it will be based on carving out a distinct competitive advantage. 'Most Powerful Console' is a term that's tricky to navigate for both MS and Sony - likely why MS are leaning into 'Most Powerful Xbox'.
Fastest console could end up being something they can prove and use with confidence.
Who knows though.
Not sure why you think a potential X2 speed is negligible. It's not.
We will find out in February I guess. But I think the SSD will make a far more profound differentiator than a TF or two.
Care to elaborate? I mean, we currently don't know but both companies already promise no loading times. What is "no loading time" divided by two? And when it comes to streaming data from the SSD into the RAM, I already said that even in the extreme case of exchanging everything that is in RAM from the SSD only takes less than 7 seconds on XSX, it will take less than 3.5 seconds on PS5. This doesn't sound like a difference that will set the world on fire at all.
The biggest use isn't filling the 13GB faster for loading - its for augmenting the limited amount of ram.
If you can read 2GB/s then you can stream assets in almost on demand. If you take a 10 second slice of eg GTA where you're driving through the city streaming in the level geometry and textures etc as you drive fast:
13GB + shitty 50mb/s HDD - you effecgtively have 13.5GB addressable memory as you can swap in 500mb of additional assets. So you will need to reserve a big chunk of that 13GB for assets you need fast access to because the HDD isn't fast enough to get it for you
13GB + 2GB/s SSD - you now effectively have 13GB + 20GB 'virtual' ram - 33GB addressable. This means you can swap those 'near' assets in almost as needed, plus reduce your need for caching in main memory so more of that 13GB can be used for everything in view.
13GB + 4GB/s SSD - you now effectively have 13GB + 40GB 'virtual' ram - 53GB addressable
a much faster SSD could make a big difference. Although whether one is faster we just don't know right now. Simplest expectation is they're both based on PCIe4 nvme drives so will be close to each other.
Yeah, that's a good explanation of what could be possible, by mapping a part of the storage as part of what you can mmap, besides the usual os "feature" of virtual memory that was always there. I mean, virtual memory is not a new concept at all and often defined by the size you set for the pagefile.
Sounds like if PS5s SSD is 2x faster - there's a huge potential for a baseline where the ability to have dynamism / variety / complexity of data in a scene can be magnified. It all depends on the baseline I guess.
What are you talking about?
I mean haptic feedback and adaptive triggers.
A lot of it is going to come down to what developers decide to do with their games. I honestly am concerned that even if PS5 has 2x the SSD speed like some of the evidence suggests, third-party devs might decide to design their games around achieving no load times or pop-in on either console (or even on SATA SSDs on PC), and not bothering to do anything extra with the PS5 one. Hopefully not, but I do wonder. I suppose though that even if that happens, PS5 exclusives will make full utilisation and hopefully pressure devs into pushing their games harder, to the point that a 2GB/s SSD would be forced to resort to loading and pop-in.
Any hazy area or place with low amount of contrast should be ok. (Clouds, mist etc.)I think VRS will only come into play in darker areas, night time levels and maybe VR games designed around eye ball tracking.
For instance, i dont see how this shot during daytime will get any benefits from VRS. The GPU has to render everything on this screen no matter what.
With proper TAA on top, the reduction may be very hard to see.
Also when using depth of field you can have a large area of screen blurred with over 10 pixel wide kernels.
So if hardware is like Tier 2 VRS which uses MSAA and is limited to 4x4 VRS (16xMSAA in hardware), blur should cover the VRS quite nicely.
Motion blur is another place where VRS could be used, and some other places. (If we can trust users to have sample and hold displays, we should be able to use VRS in just about anything that moves, even without MB.)
Of course the MSAA based VRS is not the only kind, so it will be interesting to see what alternatives and methods we will see.
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Honestly when it comes to multiplat - I don't think we will see any meaningful differences.
Yeah, the simplest answer is probably that it's a safe 'declaration' to make. Something interesting with AMD Flute; the chips are shown as 1 GB modules for a total of 16GB RAM. Is this a hint of the type of RAM it has, or is it an error of the Userbenchmark system?
But then you will never know if it ever makes a difference having twice the bandwidth as different games are very hard to compare. This even more will lead to new fanboy war discussions, only this time "my favorite exclusive games on my favorite console load assets way faster than on your console".
User Banned (5 Days): Trolling; multiple bans for trolling.
Do we know why the former leader of Playstation was fired? Was he trying to take next gen in a direction that would try to take advantage of their position in the market (in an unfair way)?
Half tempted to look at twitter and see if this is something Misterxmedia or his ilk are trying to propogate.
Using fog to help performance? Now we REALLY need a new Silent Hill.
Which would suck, and I hope the third-party devs push everything to the limit to use what they have.
Immediately after the firing the CEO made a statement about not being cocky Sony. This is why I'm asking. I'm not making a statement.
These are good things for sure. But not groundbreaking. Like the person you replied to said , it all boils down to speed. A couple of seconds is nothing major
I really Can't imagine the DS5 having a screen lol. I'm convinced that it will be like a DS4 with some minor tweaks and updates.
What i would personally wish for in a next gen controller is some extra buttons or paddles like scuf controllers. If every DS5 would be like a scuf controller then it would allows devs to design games with extra inputs in mind.
What i would personally wish for in a next gen controller is some extra buttons or paddles like scuf controllers. If every DS5 would be like a scuf controller then it would allows devs to design games with extra inputs in mind.
Most people don't know what teraflops are and really don't care either, I can see side by side comparisons happening though and the ssds/loading will really be highlighted, if the ps5's ssd really is as rumoured then the xbox will look slower to average gamers.
Ever since the wired article, it was obvious that load times/speeds was going to open a new front in the console wars. It has been brewing in these OTs too
It's most probably one of Kenichiro Yoshida''s aggressive pushes than anything else. What he did for Sony before he became CEO is a good read and I wont be surprised if Shawn Layden unfortunately became collateral to his plans for the Playstation brand.
No, what he said is that he didn't want complacency. I swear you guys are always making shit up for console wars.
I don't know, SSD's are hilariously slower than GDDR6, i think the SSD will only help to a point.
Has any one got any GDC talks or links on using Virtual RAM in this manner? I'm just not convinced at all (also not a S/w Engineer :^) ).
We don't know. And you're already downplaying it. I already said streaming assets.
If you assume:
1) cerny was telling the truth about their SSDs being the fastest in the market (at least back in april), so minimum of 3.5/4 GB/s bandwidth
2) windows central is correct about the SSD in Series X having 2GB/s read bandwidth
Then yea it sounds like 2x faster, maybe even higher as we dont have a solid SSD read bandwidth on the PS5.
What kind of bizarre fear mongering?
What is that based on?
That and their RAM solutions.
I think the biggest thing I am interested in is how having a super fast SSD will benefit the entire system -- UI speed, several apps at once, going in and out of apps, little to no freezing/hitches depending on the load, etc.... I think getting that to be as fast as possible will be a priority. And, of course, I am interested in how Sony's first party would make the most of all the SSD has to offer.
Reprojection is always enabled. It adds frames to a 60fps source or if a frame is dropped in 90 and 120fps sources. In all 60/90/120fps sources it also uses last minute headset motion data to adjust the projected image slightly.
You're not going to be using the NAND as RAM, you don't need to. That's what streaming is for - you load the current area you're in and stream any assets in the immediate areas. That decreases pressure on the memory.
Take the Spider-man demo: you can either speed up movement to ridiculous speeds, because loading the same amount of stuff that was originally designed takes virtually no time, so it's almost as if you had the whole world cached in the memory; or you can maintain the same speed as the original game and load a lot more data per area, what will translate in much richer and more varied environments.
Frankly, this is a very dubious speculation.It will be fast, no doubt, but i believe it will be slower then these speeds you mentioned.
Anyway,till we get full specs from Sony and MS all the PR talk from their executives should be taken with a grain of salt.
I don't expect it to be a replacement for ram, but its a million times better than a HDD or optical drive. You'll be able to leave 'secondary' assets out of ram for much longer before you need them. Probably not fast enough to stream based on your view direction, but certainly enough to leave them out until you're closer, or stream in LoDs
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