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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Thanks for explaining. Just to clarify I'm not saying that there is no value in it but that it gets put it in the right context.
But if i did make you feel that i was questioning and doubting you, I'm sorry i didn't mean it like that. I just wanted to know the context of it.
I only tried to explain what I think the other poster was asking (and by his later post I think I was correct).
The problem I think he had with what you said is that people hear and all across the internet will take the words you and other claimed insiders post and twist them whatever way it fits what narrative they want.
You telling us and explaining like you now did won't leave any question marks on why you said you thought the end result compared to Klee will be different.
Believe me if you would not have made it clear people would say you talked to other developers and made up shit and not what you now explained.
Are we ignoring the 320-bit bus (10 chips) we saw in the Scarlett E3 CGI video?
The U4 trailer wasn't real-time, it took the PS4 500ms per frame. Hellblade 2 is real-time, even though it's probably not representative of how real in-game gameplay looks like.
The CGI video also had a tech working on a blue board that couldn't possibly fit inside the case they've shown. Not sure it's the most reliable source of info.
I would agree but also point out that the dev kit does not need to match dimensions to the consumer SKU.
I was just about to say the same thing. I just went back to look and was like "yeah, those wouldn't fit in that case"
Fair point
And then anything they've shown in the video could be pretty much anything. So, yeah, not the most reliable source of info.
People can decide to trust whatever they want, but as I've always said about this video, it's fluff.
Do you think Microsoft would have choose this form factor within current gen console TDP? the Xbox Series X TDP will probably be between 250 and 300 Wats.
It might fit the PC like dev-kit, who knows. The Scorpio video was very accurate, in the Scarlett video they've shown us 320-bit bus with mixed 2GB and 1GB 14Gbps GDDR6 chips. Mixed chips you can replace, 14Gbps can be replaced with faster GDDR6 but the bus is unchangeable at this point - it's part of the silicon.
I wouldn't assume that they've lied in the CGI video, especially considering the fact that both consoles have been silicon locked before MS had shown it, so it's not something Sony can react to anyway.
That's what some people called themselves for saying 8TF. I don't think they are pessimists. Just going by how they referred to themselves.
It's probably specifically oversized to support testability and larger than needed power delivery for stress testing. The massive socket they have for cooling too.
Even microsoft who announced the series x, didnt reveal the specs.
So I don't think we will know Sony's until the reveal event, if there is one.
I get the impression Phil is talking about the general GPU power, not the computational GPU power. I find it unlikely that he would choose to use a metric that is less relevant and compares unfavourably to the Scarlett architecture. If Scarlett was ~12TF, it seems a lot more likely MS would base their marketing figures around 2.5x x1x and 10x x1, which also are a lot more relevant.
We've referred to ourselves are "realists", It's Colbert that likes calling himself a pessimist :)
Now, for something completely different. I like to present my favorite part of the Hellblade 2 video - Senua's backlite loose strands of hair:
Oh yeah that's right. So where you at now? I lean a little on the 'realist' side.
As a member of team realists, I adjusted from 9.2Tf to 10.2TF given the recent news.
Exciting times ahead.
I didn't notice that before. Realistic hair is one of the big things remaining for our uncanny valley journey.We've referred to ourselves are "realists", It's Colbert that likes calling himself a pessimist :)
Now, for something completely different. I like to present my favorite part of the Hellblade 2 video - Senua's backlite loose strands of hair:
And the DOF doesn't break around such thin objects, which is mind-blowing.
I don't really care about exact specs, but from a more abstract view:
- approx 5700XT with additional features from RDNA2 like VRS, RT to provide new capabilities and further efficiencies
- Fast SSD around 2+GB/s with custom controller support so real world transfer speeds are high
- enough RAM to combine with the fast SSD and not create a bottleneck for developers across most game engine types - using platform tools to profile they should have the data to back this up. The SSD will be such a game changer it'll be hard to understand if XGB is enough or not
- fast enough bus to not choke when you're feeding the fatter CPU and the GPU can still do its thing well.
- Fast CPU - 8c/16t sounds great. Don't give too much to the OS. Maybe just hand over half the SMT threads as they're less predictable than main threads
- 16x Anisotropic filtering would be nice
- approx 5700XT with additional features from RDNA2 like VRS, RT to provide new capabilities and further efficiencies
- Fast SSD around 2+GB/s with custom controller support so real world transfer speeds are high
- enough RAM to combine with the fast SSD and not create a bottleneck for developers across most game engine types - using platform tools to profile they should have the data to back this up. The SSD will be such a game changer it'll be hard to understand if XGB is enough or not
- fast enough bus to not choke when you're feeding the fatter CPU and the GPU can still do its thing well.
- Fast CPU - 8c/16t sounds great. Don't give too much to the OS. Maybe just hand over half the SMT threads as they're less predictable than main threads
- 16x Anisotropic filtering would be nice
Hellblade 2 Is real time confirmed?
Ah well, people were saying Killzone 2 and motorstorm were. Means nothing at this point.
They honestly look improperly sorted though wrt to the DOF. Her are in focus, while all fringe hair is not (hence why they are blown out to white?).
Phil did it with the 1X too. I think he made the 1X weaker in comparison than it really was.
He said it himself. Just doing the math it's twice the power of the 1X. Doubling the TFLOPS is easy maths. Considering every performance gain (and there are many more than just the GCN to RDNA gains like RT, VRS, etc.) you can probaly go to more than x3 factors. But how could we measure that with simple "math"?
For me it's crystal clear that he meant 12 TFLOPS RDNA with his comment.
Has there been any discussion that the 12TF number could be derived from a ~10TF general purpose GPU + ~2TF raytracing performance?
We know there is dedicated RT hardware and surely no marketer would ignore that part of the GPU when talking about "power".
We know there is dedicated RT hardware and surely no marketer would ignore that part of the GPU when talking about "power".
I would be too.Some dude on instagram with 745k followers took my PS5 mockup renders and posted them with his name watermarked on it, no mention of my screenname..
Proof that it's mine just because I feel like i have to prove myself now.
Sorry just annoyed.
You did an amazing job with them. If the PS5 winds up looking like it...either you knew!!!
Or Sony will owe you some money/needs to hire you.
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We've referred to ourselves are "realists", It's Colbert that likes calling himself a pessimist :)
Now, for something completely different. I like to present my favorite part of the Hellblade 2 video - Senua's backlite loose strands of hair:
Didn't realy notice it before, thats kinda impressive. I did however notice the "bad" hair in the Godfall trailer, but that might be a artistic choice.
Intentional or just oversight?
Either way, we're a year from launch and this is a third party engine. Things are going to look great next year.
It just hit me. Aren't we supposed to get PlayStation Experience around this time of the year?
Or did Sony skip this altogether just like they skipped E3 2019?
Or did Sony skip this altogether just like they skipped E3 2019?
Gamespot said it was confirmed to them:
However, in our exclusive chat with Phil Spencer, we learned this footage was in-engine and running in real-time
So it's not KZ2 or Motorstorm (which were CGI) or U4 (which wasn't real-time), just take it as a tech demo built to show off hardware and engine, like the Samaritan demo.
Isn't that just the backlighting?
BTW, DOF does break at a certain point of the trailer, look at the group of hair blow her left ear (our left), you can see characters in focus though it while the rest of the scene is heavily blurred:
Wouldn't it then have been easier to say Scarlet is 12TF+, just like he did say 1x was 6TF+ when he announced it at E3 2016?
As she breathes you can see the hair resolving more - I do not think that is right.
Yeah you can also see how the DOF leaves rings around the severed hands as well. All rasterisation /masking errors.
The nice thing about Hellblade is that it heavily uses hallucinations as a narrative tool, so it's all just artistic license :D
We might need more info on Big Navi to get an get idea about the true tflops of these consoles, If Big Navi is actually reaching 20 TF's at the high end, then 12/13 ttflops navi sounds pretty realistic, at this point it's fine to be conservative with estimates.
I personally believe 5700 XT is truly an over priced mid range GPU & expect consoles to do better, but who knows for now.
I personally believe 5700 XT is truly an over priced mid range GPU & expect consoles to do better, but who knows for now.
I didn't notice that before. I was so impressed by the DOF, I thought they were using RT DOF, but I guess not :)
BTW, did MS provide you guys with a better version of the video, or the (hopefully) soon to come analysis will be based on the Youtube version?
What we really need is to see a bigger Navi based on RDNA 2 that can show us thermals and consumption so we can make new realistic assumptions :)
That's interesting, because DoF is pretty trivial to solve with RT (as far as RT things can be trivial, that is - it's trivial in comparison to, say, diffuse).
Maybe he likes the confusion right now and grabs some popcorn while reading his thread. :)
Edit: I think they are waiting for a full specs reveal. There are many more interesting details completly missing right now (SSD and RAM speed and size) that the final TFLOPS number isn't that important.
The game is probably at least two years away, who knows what they will have implemented by then. As it stands, it's very hard to tell how they are using RT right now.
The specs are not locked yet and they're probably in NDA with AMD ( RDNA2 features ).
2X over One X is 12TF, they said they're using next generation RDNA graphics.
This whole RDNA / GCN doesn't make any sense.
The specs aren't locked? Then what is my mans Phil playing with at home?
Hardware that can be tweaked at the firmware/bios level, but in the XSX case.
Will they not be on the 'MS secret sauce branch' of UE4 now? I guess it is 3rd party still.
The SOC is done.
But they didn't tell anything about memory size, memory bandwidth, ssd size, ssd speed, cpu clock, gpu clock.
Plus what i said about AMD RDNA2 NDA...
I'm sure they'll share tech with The Coalition, who added plenty of sauce to Gears 5.
The 2X can refer to something other than Tflops though. I'd say that for a console GPU it's pretty irrelevant how many floating point operations it can do per second. I'd argue that a better metric is how many frames per second it can render in a certain setting.
What are people's thoughts on MS/Sony ditching the SMT on the APU to help with temps? An 8 core Zen 2 would still be a major bit of CPU without the SMT.
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