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Dec 8, 2018
1,911
Well, actually we don't know anything specific at this point. Why would PS5 leak?

I guess since the rumor (I don't even think it's still a rumor at this point) was that Sony had their development kits both out earlier and to more developers than Xbox and yet it seems that Xbox specs are "leaking" more.

If these leaks are true or not are another matter.
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,926
United States
Well, according to some in this thread, PS5 specs are more concrete than XSX right now because Klee has both of the final targets due to having second hand knowledge from a developer friend.
 
Dec 8, 2018
1,911
Well, according to some in this thread, PS5 specs are more concrete than XSX right now because Klee has both of the final targets due to having second hand knowledge from a developer friend.

Well then I would say they are twisting his words because he never said their actual targets only that they are above 10TF basically and very close and it seems like the PS5 have the edge when it comes to power according to his friend but it's not even worth talking about since the difference is so small.
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,926
United States
Well then I would say they are twisting his words because he never said their actual targets only that they are above 10TF basically and very close and it seems like the PS5 have the edge when it comes to power according to his friend but it's not even worth talking about since the difference is so small.
I think the vagueness is intentional for all these insiders without actual names attached to themselves.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,479
Seattle
It's fascinating to see the slow-moving incremental reveals this time around. While the XSX reveal at The Game Awards was a clear step forward, it was still just matching the PS5 reveals to date in some areas (console name, controller details) and raising the ante with a physical design, an in-engine teaser, and some vague marketing language. Still no date, no price, no concrete specs. So far the only time one of the two players put news out that wasn't countered by the other was with Microsoft's GDDR6 nod at E3.

So lacking real concrete specs we're stuck trying to decide what outlets that claim to have details are reliable, only most of them seem to be guessing much like us. DF's reluctance to immediately accept 2x GPU as confirmation of 12TF struck me as unnecessarily cautious until I realized Microsoft is also touting 4x CPU, and thats clearly not based on something equally simplistic like clock speed. What if they're citing 2x and 4x based on benchmarks they've chosen? Apple does something similar all the time to compare across architectures. Then it will be nearly impossible for us to guess a teraflop equivalent without knowing quite a bit more.

As usual, it's back to the waiting game to see who is going to put a few more chips in the pot, and when exactly someone might decide to go all-in.
 

Xeontech

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,059
User banned (1 day): hostility
For you all that talk shit about the leakers and insiders, ya you can go fuck off please.

These guys like Klee put their asses on the line so we can have a few tidbits to keep us from going insane.

If you don't have inside info to add, talking shit about the leakers is just console warrior bullshit and it's tiring.
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
Since the Xbox reveal this thread as been embarassing and it will only get worse after the PS5 reveal.
 

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,043
For you all that talk shit about the leakers and insiders, ya you can go fuck off please.

These guys like Klee put their asses on the line so we can have a few tidbits to keep us from going insane.

If you don't have inside info to add, talking shit about the leakers is just console warrior bullshit and it's tiring.

Exactly. There is a reason why lots of insiders dont wanna post shit here. Because idiots crawl out and start bashing them.
 

Turkey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17
It would have to be two different games if you would want it to shine like other since apparently having an ssd opens up completely different gameplay compared to having to keep slow HDD in mind when developing not just how good your texture looks.

But for sure we will have to wait and see I am just saying maybe that is not the title that will blow people minds when next gen games are revealed with it also being made for this one.

The examples they give of SSD benefits seem good but huge open world's were in Halo on the OG Xbox, there might be loading screens but the gameplay has not really changed from the first game, if it went too far it would not be halo. We have always been able to zip about on warthogs etc.

I think the true difference will be geometry density, once we see the detail and density afforded by the new hardware I think last gen will look it.

The resolution jump stole most of the power differential last generation, it looks like graphical detail will be taking center stage this time.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,382
It's fascinating to see the slow-moving incremental reveals this time around. While the XSX reveal at The Game Awards was a clear step forward, it was still just matching the PS5 reveals to date in some areas (console name, controller details) and raising the ante with a physical design, an in-engine teaser, and some vague marketing language. Still no date, no price, no concrete specs. So far the only time one of the two players put news out that wasn't countered by the other was with Microsoft's GDDR6 nod at E3.

So lacking real concrete specs we're stuck trying to decide what outlets that claim to have details are reliable, only most of them seem to be guessing much like us. DF's reluctance to immediately accept 2x GPU as confirmation of 12TF struck me as unnecessarily cautious until I realized Microsoft is also touting 4x CPU, and thats clearly not based on something equally simplistic like clock speed. What if they're citing 2x and 4x based on benchmarks they've chosen? Apple does something similar all the time to compare across architectures. Then it will be nearly impossible for us to guess a teraflop equivalent without knowing quite a bit more.

As usual, it's back to the waiting game to see who is going to put a few more chips in the pot, and when exactly someone might decide to go all-in.
XBX's CPU isn't just a normal Jaguar, it's very customised, it's likely SX's custom Ryzen 2 (with say less L3 cache) is about 4x faster, people saying it should be 5-6x faster are not exactly wrong & that could provide evidence that Phil is also downplaying the SX's GPU, but there is details that change the math & it's not as simple as comparing PS4's Jaguar to PC's Ryzen 2.
 
Dec 8, 2018
1,911
The examples they give of SSD benefits seem good but huge open world's were in Halo on the OG Xbox, there might be loading screens but the gameplay has not really changed from the first game, if it went too far it would not be halo. We have always been able to zip about on warthogs etc.

I think the true difference will be geometry density, once we see the detail and density afforded by the new hardware I think last gen will look it.

The resolution jump stole most of the power differential last generation, it looks like graphical detail will be taking center stage this time.

This is just an example of what perhaps might be possible but the SSD would perhaps allow instead of their potentially being large but still separated areas (like the different areas in the Witcher 3 or maps of Dragon age for example) one complete world were you instead of jumping on one of the aircrafts to get to different location and being "teleported" to the new area would fly across the map (perhaps with you steering) in tremendous speed looking down on the world, the conflict going on below you or head out into space realized in perfect detail without any teleportation and loading screens.

This example would not be possible on the old gens because the HDD would simply not be able to keep up and this is just one way it will hold developers back from blowing us away.
 

klik

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
873
Is Mark Cerny still working in Sony around PS5 development? I remember listening to him back in Feb 2013 when he talked about PS4 , it was really interesting. He seemed really passionate about his work
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
Is Mark Cerny still working in Sony around PS5 development? I remember listening to him back in Feb 2013 when he talked about PS4 , it was really interesting. He seemed really passionate about his work
Yes, he has been doing every interview so far detailing the tech behind the console since April.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,844
Is Mark Cerny still working in Sony around PS5 development? I remember listening to him back in Feb 2013 when he talked about PS4 , it was really interesting. He seemed really passionate about his work
He doesnt work in sony, but he is hired as the lead system architects for the ps4 and now the PS5 (and the vita i think)
 

Dacke

Member
Dec 10, 2019
2
Hey CrimsonNocturne, your (Super Awesome) mockup renders have been mentioned on the swedish gaming site Gamereactor.se (https://www.gamereactor.se/nyheter/814253/Sahar+kommer+Playstation+5+inte+att+se+ut/).

I made another PS5 concept. This one seems better I think. Still has the V shape.
FeKTo08.jpg

NhEJxUd.jpg
EQ1oR1q.jpg
DW72dCv.jpg
 

Klobrille

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,360
Germany
I think the vagueness is intentional ...
It always is.

Because most people don't understand that these things are not binary. You want a "yes or no". You want a "weaker or more powerful". You want "10.4 TF or 12.1 TF". The only things many want to see are static hard facts. Everything in between won't get accepted.

But the truth is, this is not how this works. It never does. Especially not with a year still on the clock. Things change all the time, plans get cancelled, plans change. Sometimes intentionally. Sometimes caused by mistakes. Sometimes to react to the competition.

There is a reason I never - at no point - explicitly said the next Xbox will have the power-crown but instead always transparently worded it the way I did - with Anaconda aiming to be the performance leader. I know this will still be not enough for many people, but maybe it helps understanding the reasoning. Klee did it exactly the same way, and this is perfectly understandable, although if I think the final outcome will be a very different one. But again, that's okay as long as you can categorize it correctly.
 

Deleted member 10747

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
Known for a long time bro. Dunno how you kept missing it. I just reposted it in the other thread:

I've read the article but i don't see anything about it being a possible FPS. It's only talking about first person perspective. Perhaps you are using FPS to say first person perspective instead of first person shooter?
although if I think the final outcome will be a very different one
Based on information you know or just what you think may happen?

Edit: Let me clarify why I'm asking this.

I think that if you are a insider and people know that you know stuff. That you need to clarify if its inside information or if its just your opinion and your guesses. Klee is saying stuff based on information he has heard and not on his opinion. Matt has said some stuff based on opinion but since he knows people look at what he is saying as a insider. He specifies that it is a opinion and not based on information he has heard. Its good to put that caveat if you are a insider. Makes it less ambiguous(?).
 
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Dec 8, 2018
1,911
It always is.

Because most people don't understand that these things are not binary. You want a "yes or no". You want a "weaker or more powerful". You want "10.4 TF or 12.1 TF". The only things many want to see are static hard facts. Everything in between won't get accepted.

But the truth is, this is not how this works. It never does. Especially not with a year still on the clock. Things change all the time, plans get cancelled, plans change. Sometimes intentionally. Sometimes caused by mistakes. Sometimes to react to the competition.

There is a reason I never - at no point - explicitly said the next Xbox will have the power-crown but instead always transparently worded it the way I did - with Anaconda aiming to be the performance leader. I know this will still be not enough for many people, but maybe it helps understanding the reasoning. Klee did it exactly the same way, and this is perfectly understandable, although if I think the final outcome will be a very different one. But again, that's okay as long as you can categorize it correctly.

It's sad that you guys even have to post these explanations and are getting attacked and your words twisted the way they are when it should be quite obvious not even MS or Sony know exactly where the final specs will land.
 

Klobrille

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,360
Germany
I've read the article but i don't see anything about it being a possible FPS. It's only talking about first person perspective. Perhaps you are using FPS to say first person perspective instead of first person shooter?

Based on information you know or just what you think may happen?
I don't think I understand.

It's a confirmed fact by MS that Xbox Series X is aiming to be the performance-leader on the market. All I did during those last 10 months or so was stating exactly that, as it is stated in their roadmap/strategy, but you don't need me to tell you that anymore.

Phil Spencer said:
"Our goal has always been to build the most powerful console we can, and I think we're there. We like leading in power and performance and I feel like we're going to be there again."

 

JoJo'sDentCo

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,538
I haven't been to this thread for a few days. What happened to team 8TF when the XSX was announced? Does team 8TF still exist?
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,885
After reading around a bit I'm actually with Digital Foundry and Alex on this: Microsoft hasn't given out an exact TF number, they've only said that it's "2X of Xbox One X" which you may interpret either as 6x2=12 TF or as "twice as fast in gaming".

The second option would obviously lead to a lower TF figure as we're comparing GCN with RDNA and the latter is a lot more efficient and will likely reach this "2X" level at ~10 TF.

~10 TF also seems a lot likely for a Navi 10 level GPU within console TDP and ties nicely with what we've heard about Scarlett and PS5 previously.
 
Dec 8, 2018
1,911
I don't think I understand.

It's a confirmed fact by MS that Xbox Series X is aiming to be the performance-leader on the market. You don't need me to tell you that anymore.




I think what he meant is it based on you actually seeing current or "final goal specs" of both devices, or heard a developer working with both machines claiming one or the other is stronger (like Klee).

Edit: God that sentence did not convey what I meant exactly but I hope you understand what I mean.

If it's based on MS roadmap and Phil that is fine and thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 
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Deleted member 10747

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
I don't think I understand.

It's a confirmed fact by MS that Xbox Series X is aiming to be the performance-leader on the market. You don't need me to tell you that anymore.



I made a edit and that doesn't confirm anything and was also not what i meant. Goal, think, feelings and aiming are not statements.

Anyway that wasn't my point. You said that you believe different than Klee and i was asking if that is something that you know because of information that you have or that you are giving your opinion.

See my edit for more info.

I think what he meant is it based on you actually seeing current or "final goal specs" of both devices, or heard a developer working with both machines claiming one or the other is stronger (like Klee).
Yeah okay, this is what i meant. Thank you!
 

Klobrille

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,360
Germany
I think what he meant is it based on you actually seeing current or "final goal specs" of both devices, or heard a developer working with both machines claiming one or the other is stronger (like Klee).
I think I always made it clear that I don't have any questionable "inside" stories to share but rather focus on what the team is going for. And exactly that received confirmation 3 days ago. Not more. Not less. What one makes out of that is not up to me. If someone doesn't see the value in that and wants instead focus on binary information only - that's fine as well, just move on then.

I have no reason to believe the Xbox hardware team will not achieve their set target. Especially when we have an official statement by the Head of Xbox stating that as recent as 3 days ago. The whole marketing only underlines that (Power your dreams, "Fastest. Most powerful."). Power is the foundation why Series X exists.
 
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III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
After reading around a bit I'm actually with Digital Foundry and Alex on this: Microsoft hasn't given out an exact TF number, they've only said that it's "2X of Xbox One X" which you may interpret either as 6x2=12 TF or as "twice as fast in gaming".

The second option would obviously lead to a lower TF figure as we're comparing GCN with RDNA and the latter is a lot more efficient and will likely reach this "2X" level at ~10 TF.

~10 TF also seems a lot likely for a Navi 10 level GPU within console TDP and ties nicely with what we've heard about Scarlett and PS5 previously.
They have said 2x GPU power of a 1X. GPU computational power is of course measured in FLOPs. Phil is well aware of this, same as everyone here. Discussing relative performance instead of comp power is not what they are doing.

In terms of thermals, I think there is a high probability it has moved past 7nm, either to 7nm+ (30% eff inc) or 7NP (~12% eff inc). Komachi has seen big Navi (2nd gen stuff) dropping a week or more back. Also, 5700XT RDNA1 doesn't have RT capabilities like what we have in gen 2.
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,846
I am starting to think Microsoft could use 7nm and Sony could use 7nm EUV. I don't see Sony using 2ghz clocks with 7nm.

powerscalingfactor5kkho.png
 

SnoopZ

Member
Jul 30, 2019
784
Some dude on instagram with 745k followers took my PS5 mockup renders and posted them with his name watermarked on it, no mention of my screenname..

Proof that it's mine just because I feel like i have to prove myself now.
YzVtOut.png


Sorry just annoyed.

@CrimsonNocturne Glad you got what you deserved from Tweaktown.

'A new render of Sony's next-gen PlayStation 5 has surfaced on the ResetEra forums, with forum user 'CrimsonNocturne' making up these bad boys:'

Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/6930...how-radical-different-design-again/index.html

 
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