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12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,722
The market for new people getting consoles is not really that meaningful (save for kids who grow into it). There aren't 100M new people that want a game console, no matter how good a value GP is. And even if there was a big market to be had there, those users would still spend much less than existing core gamers.

MS needs to go after Sony's userbase. That's where the money is for many more years.

So what? Game Pass subscribers are already spending much less. But I overtime/long term, casual gamers will likely move away from consoles as a whole.

Then Ybarra was right. They are going to need some serious AAA firepower to convince PS gamers to miss out on Spider-Man, GoW, Horizon etc.

They could go nuclear and buy more studios and publishers, Take-Two is a good one that has good games and has lots of IP :-) Nothing will surprise me at this point if the industry consolidates and companies are wanting to compete to bolster their subscription service.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,751
I'm thinking MS is hoping and will be happy if some of the PS users decide to pick up Lockhart as a secondary system for cheap to play exclusives. That, or use xCloud to access games and give them money the wouldn't have in the past.

Personally I have no plans to buy an Xbox but if there's a must play game on xCloud I would consider subscribing for a month to play it. That's potential money from me that they never would have seen in the first place.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
I think he should say the numbers and the facts and leave the speculation to pros like us. 😂



The Nvidia part is another poster's text in blue. His reply is that the difference in die size might be RT.

If that's true then MS is on 7nm+, due to 56CUs vs 36CUS.
If Arden is 350 and an apu, its definitely on 7nm+.
If oberon is a 300 apu, its on 7nm+ as well.

If its 315mm2 7nm like that reddit leak then hardware rt has to be on a separate chip.

But since cerny said rt is on the gpu, it can't be that which means 300mm2 is on 7nm+.
 

Vimto

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,714
When there is one SKU. But if they are going with a low end and high end, part of the point of the high end is to reduce losses with customers who are willing to pay more.


Microsoft launching 299$/599$ for the S and X respectively seem like their plan.

But wouldn't that mean the S would be their main seller? If so, why havent they spoken about it yet?Seems weird, lockhart should be front and center, especially if they don't people to perceive it as low power second class console.
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
If Arden is 350 and an apu, its definitely on 7nm+.
If oberon is a 300 apu, its on 7nm+ as well.

If its 315mm2 7nm like that reddit leak then hardware rt has to be on a separate chip.

But since cerny said rt is on the gpu, it can't be that which means 300mm2 is on 7nm+.

Outside of a two week stint, I am off the 7nm+ train. Never believed in it. Everyone is skipping 7nm+ left and right. It has no benefit outside of density increase. I've read that peak clock speed is possibly worse on 7nm+ than n7p.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,088
The market for new people getting consoles is not really that meaningful (save for kids who grow into it). There aren't 100M new people that want a game console, no matter how good a value GP is. And even if there was a big market to be had there, those users would still spend much less than existing core gamers.

MS needs to go after Sony's userbase. That's where the money is for many more years.

One more question before you go .
Talk about streaming services or GP and the like .
I see gaming being different from the other media that the road going to be much harder.
For eg unlike movies or music one game can last a person for years and then there is also F2P .
They way how content can be access and how long it can last very different from other media in terms of user time.
Do you see that having a big or small effect on things.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
No one makes money off selling consoles unless you are Nintendo.

Microsoft if history is right will sell the lower spec console for a higher loss because you tend to subsidize those who do not have money to a far greater degree as you look for mass market absorption. However, they will also understand that the hardcore, the user that tends to spend the most money on software might be iffy where it comes to spending vastly more. In my opinion, they may be willing to take a bigger loss on the low end, but they also cannot simply look to break even on the higher spectrum.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
So what? Game Pass subscribers are already spending much less. But I overtime/long term, casual gamers will likely move away from consoles as a whole.
Right, maybe that works long term and MS gets to be the "Netflix for games," reaching across Xbox, PC, xCloud, Switch, etc., and that gives them hundreds of millions of users. That's their dream, and it's certainly possible.

But A), that's going to take a very long time, and B), it would be foolish to surrender those core users, as the more of them you convert the the more people you have to help drive adoption beyond the base. And again, they spend a lot more, which will help subsidize the incredible cost required to build "Netflix for games."
 

7eff

Member
Jan 22, 2018
4
I know its hypothetical at this point but I believe if MS released the XB1X (minus kenect) at $699 in 2013 they win this generation.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Outside of a two week stint, I am off the 7nm+ train. Never believed in it. Everyone is skipping 7nm+ left and right. It has no benefit outside of density increase. I've read that peak clock speed is possibly worse on 7nm+ than n7p.
Then oberon and Arden must be gpus. 350mm2 should have 56 cus and 50 mm2 left over for rt.

Oberon is your 40 cu 5700xt die with 49 going into rt cores.
 

JonesXlv

Member
Jun 7, 2018
142
Then Ybarra was right. They are going to need some serious AAA firepower to convince PS gamers to miss out on Spider-Man, GoW, Horizon etc.

Which they are clearly trying to do with all of the studio acquisitions. Spencer has geared up for a real shot at this upcoming gen.... should be a great battle for marketshare. Will be fun to look back on this in 5-7 years and see how it all played out.
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
Is dedicated RT integrated into Navi going to increase CU size?

Or does current Navi have gaps for future RT?

Are the RT cores basically wasted die space if they aren't being utilized?
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
Then oberon and Arden must be gpus. 350mm2 should have 56 cus and 50 mm2 left over for rt.

Oberon is your 40 cu 5700xt die with 49 going into rt cores.

I don't agree.

1. I don't think the CPU takes more than 45mm2. ~35mm2 for the CPU, ~10mm2 for the quartered cache (8mb)
2. Navi 10 is 250mm2. Strip out 20mm2 of PC specific silicon, that's 230mm2.

230 + 45 = 275mm2. Assuming 316mm2, that leaves 41mm2 for secret sauces, RT, etc.

For Arden, add 9mm2 for extra 64bit GDDR6 controller.
add 40mm2 for extra 8WGP. (Each WGP is around ~4.5-5mm2)

That comes out to be 365mm2.

316mm2 x 1.15 (from the Taiwanese leak) = 363.4mm2.
 
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Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Microsoft launching 299$/599$ for the S and X respectively seem like their plan.

But wouldn't that mean the S would be their main seller? If so, why havent they spoken about it yet?Seems weird, lockhart should be front and center, especially if they don't people to perceive it as low power second class console.
We'll have to see, it's uncharted territory.
One more question before you go .
Talk about streaming services or GP and the like .
I see gaming being different from the other media that road the going to be much harder.
For eg unlike movies or music one game can last a person for years and then there is also F2P .
They way how content can be access and how long it can last very different from other media in terms of user time.
Do you see that having a big or small effect on things.
It's a huge question, and it will impact every element of games, from design to monetization. But beyond knowing it will radically change the face of gaming, it's almost impossible to know what that change will look like.

No one makes money off selling consoles unless you are Nintendo.

Microsoft if history is right will sell the lower spec console for a higher loss because you tend to subsidize those who do not have money to a far greater degree as you look for mass market absorption. However, they will also understand that the hardcore, the user that tends to spend the most money on software might be iffy where it comes to spending vastly more. In my opinion, they may be willing to take a bigger loss on the low end, but they also cannot simply look to break even on the higher spectrum.
Oh I don't think they will be making money off the SX at launch, but the margins will be better and they will have a planned path to profitability for the hardware.
 

Deleted member 40133

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Feb 19, 2018
6,095
A bespoke RT is....interesting, but it doesn't sound like a very Cerny like solution, he likes to keep things simple. Unless it actually is a better solution than AMD's, we don't know what their solution could be. Could be dog shyte for all we know (doubt it). Or he's okay with a weaker implementation of RT to free up CU's

Edit: some cell processors to do RT and double duty as BC? lol. I sincerely doubt it
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,760
I know its hypothetical at this point but I believe if MS released the XB1X (minus kenect) at $699 in 2013 they win this generation.
If by win you mean a moral victory before exiting the console business entirely, then yeah, they'd have won. A $699 console is a non-starter, and your X wouldn't have been nearly as impressive in 2013.
 

12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,722
Right, maybe that works long term and MS gets to be the "Netflix for games," reaching across Xbox, PC, xCloud, Switch, etc., and that gives them hundreds of millions of users. That's their dream, and it's certainly possible.

But A), that's going to take a very long time, and B), it would be foolish to surrender those core users, as the more of them you convert the the more people you have to help drive adoption beyond the base. And again, they spend a lot more, which will help subsidize the incredible cost required to build "Netflix for games."

You're right but, but it's not like Microsoft hasn't taken massive losses to gain market share without those users paying. Office 365 comes to mind and their Bing is a good example.

I think it's pretty much expected that Microsoft will dominate Subscription Gaming, especially since no other company in the industry can absorb the cost involved to build such a service and at the output to keep users subscribed. Which may explain why Microsoft is aggressively focusing on growth for the Xbox brand.

4a06c334461fb79f2da41c109ea65be4.jpg


The chart above is probably what the status Xbox division is at the moment. Making losses to grow the brand and that's great thing to see.
 
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7eff

Member
Jan 22, 2018
4
Well I'm way out of my element here but my main point is I dont think MS is going to be concerned about price point this time around. Anyway I'll see myself out...
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Is dedicated RT integrated into Navi going to increase CU size?

Or does current Navi have gaps for future RT?

Are the RT cores basically wasted die space if they aren't being utilized?
Duke can answer this but iirc he did find a lot of empty spots on the 5700xt die. Or maybe it was modiz or anex.

Yes if rt isn't being utilized its wasted space but every Game will use rt.

Yes it will increase cu size of the patent is true.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,081
I think Sony gamers are a lost cause and they shouldn't aim for them. But the new console gamer, which is what Microsoft is doing and should be doing

They definitely should aim for them, people can buy more than one console.

I bought all PS (home consoles) and I also got a Xbox 360. Not the first or the Xbox One because I never felt like there were enough reasons to justify it, while on X360 they had better performing multiplatform titles and some pretty good exclusives.

They just have to focus on delivering great content and they'll attract more costumers, even if a lot of those get a PS5 first.
 

Iso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,188
If we believe the 2019 PS5 rumor (which was still using Navi/RDNA) and the fact that it's taken to 2020 for AMD to get anything raytracing going, I could see a situation where Sony broke off very early on in the process to develop their own solution since AMD clearly weren't going to be ready and then after the plans were scrapped for a 2019 release, they decided to keep whatever they were working on instead of scrapping that as well? Or they went with PowerVR or another alternative.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
You're right but, but it's not like Microsoft hasn't taken massive losses to gain market share without those users paying. Office 365 comes to mind and their Bing is a good example.

I think it's pretty much expected that Microsoft will dominate Subscripion Gaming, especially since no other company can absorb the cost involved to build such a service. Which may explain why Microsoft is aggressively focusing on growth for the Xbox brand.
MS is certainly capable of absorbing losses, and is willing to do so to achieve this vision, but they are not going to let Xbox go off the rails. It needs to bring in money. Part of the way Phil sold MS on the current vision (per my understanding) was to say this is the path to profitability Xbox had almost always failed to reach.

And while MS certainly is in a great position (probably the best) to build this everywhere subscription service, it's not anywhere close to certain they will be the most successful. PlayStation is a bigger brand, every publisher is getting into the field so it will get harder to source third party content, Amazon or Google or Apple could decide to really get into things, etc.

I wouldn't make any bets for the future.
 

Storybook

Member
Oct 27, 2017
177
I hope both consoles are above 10 TF. I'm mostly hyped about the CPU leap, It's time to see improvements that match the good visuals.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
Then oberon and Arden must be gpus. 350mm2 should have 56 cus and 50 mm2 left over for rt.

Oberon is your 40 cu 5700xt die with 49 going into rt cores.
Did you guys forget what Tom Warren said? He said he wonders how both Sony and MS will count Ray Tracing towards the final TF. Aquarius might be correct - PS5 might have a seoerate ray tracing unit.
 

Kreten

Banned
Nov 16, 2019
323
I work in tech also. I know how PR operates, in micro and macro levels.

Things have to be said in ways that the average consumer can understand for damage to be done. Do you really believe we've condensed things down to that point yet? Hell play the DF video for an audience at E3 and they'd be lost, bored, and nodding off, before telling you to start the next gaming reel.

In the end, we are the only ones who want to "talk" video game consoles. Everyone else wants to talk video games.

Let me ask this: Did the months of forum chatter on the Xbox One being weaker than the PS4 do 1% of the damage of their disastrous E3 reveal?
Yes, I remember some casuals going to stores and believing that xbox one had n64 graphics so not even an option. Word of mouth is very powerful, if either company doesn't please the hardcore it gets exaggerated to the masses.

Reveal was prior to E3 btw. Their horrible messaging didn't help things either it just added on top of being weaker.
 

Deleted member 40133

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Feb 19, 2018
6,095
I feel like people are missing the point of the 2 ski strategy. They don't expect people to make Lockhart they're only console for the next 5+ years, they want it to be your complimentary console. If youre a Sony diehard and one of those $1600 launch spenders that would never switch....you'd still plunk down a comparatively "measely" $250-$300 for exclusives that look awesome. Failing that, maybe the Sony gamer has a beefy PC, very possible if you're a launch day buyer. So what do they do? We'll gamepads of course. What if you don't have a gaming PC and don't want to spend additional money on more plastic boxes? Well that's simple, xcloud. And of course you have the super beefy xsx for good word of mouth, headlines and getting the gamers who only care about tech/power. Microsoft is providing three avenues for someone who never considered giving ms money to give them money
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,088
MS is certainly capable of absorbing losses, and is willing to do so to achieve this vision, but they are not going to let Xbox go off the rails. It needs to bring in money. Part of the way Phil sold MS on the current vision (per my understanding) was to say this is the path to profitability Xbox had almost always failed to reach.

And while MS certainly is in a great position (probably the best) to build this everywhere subscription service, it's not anywhere close to certain they will be the most successful. PlayStation is a bigger brand, every publisher is getting into the field so it will get harder to source third party content, etc.

I wouldn't make any bets for the future.

I think the whole Netflix for games thing is dead if you looking at it from all the content in one place idea.
As we can see with TV and movies they have so many different services like that coming up.
It going to be interesting to see how much the market can take be it games or tv\moves services.
 

12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,722
MS is certainly capable of absorbing losses, and is willing to do so to achieve this vision, but they are not going to let Xbox go off the rails. It needs to bring in money. Part of the way Phil sold MS on the current vision (per my understanding) was to say this is the path to profitability Xbox had almost always failed to reach.

And while MS certainly is in a great position (probably the best) to build this everywhere subscription service, it's not anywhere close to certain they will be the most successful. PlayStation is a bigger brand, every publisher is getting into the field so it will get harder to source third party content, etc.

I wouldn't make any bets for the future.

How would this be any different from PS? In fact, I think Sony will likely be much worse off since publishers can easily ditch them since PS Now is only 1 million and also publishers and indies already ignore the service. Getting a big user base onto Game Pass will make it harder for publishers to ditch them. Also consolidating the industry by buying publishers and studios also help, that's assuming if Amazon, Google, Facebook etc will aggressively buy companies.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
Which they are clearly trying to do with all of the studio acquisitions. Spencer has geared up for a real shot at this upcoming gen.... should be a great battle for marketshare. Will be fun to look back on this in 5-7 years and see how it all played out.

Many of them are AA studios though which is why Ybarra and that other guy made the comments. I don't think that necessarily means anything though. What was Double Helix pre-KI? Asobo pre-Flight Sim? I could go on, those were just 2 recent examples off the top of my head
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,038
For gamepass are you expecting developers to develop solely for it, or is it incremental revenue after your initial sales period (like Netflix after the theatrical and DVD windows)?

If the latter, the games have to pay back their investment at least partly from actual sales which means you need to maintain some kind of ownership model. If you love everything to a sub model, surely the budget for creation is much lower across all providers?
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
Oh I don't think they will be making money off the SX at launch, but the margins will be better and they will have a planned path to profitability for the hardware.
I still go back to Phil Spencer stating that the business is not to make money off hardware, it is on the software side of things. This has always been the way the business operates.

It is more likely that Microsoft breaks even on hardware, passing the cost benefits to the consumer if it means that they can see more market share and software uptake. It is also normal to think that Sony could do the same, even go higher in the red because PlayStation is the goose that laid the golden egg.
How would this be any different from PS? In fact, I think Sony will likely be much worse off since publishers can easily ditch them since PS Now is only 1 million and also publishers and indies already ignore the service. Getting a big user base onto Game Pass will make it harder for publishers to ditch them. Also consolidating the industry by buying publishers and studios also help, that's assuming if Amazon, Google, Facebook etc will aggressively buy companies.
No publisher is going to ditch PlayStation.

Sony will simply react to what the market realities are, and at current, there is nothing that forces them to change their business model.
 

12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,722
For gamepass are you expecting developers to develop solely for it, or is it incremental revenue after your initial sales period (like Netflix after the theatrical and DVD windows)?

If the latter, the games have to pay back their investment at least partly from actual sales which means you need to maintain some kind of ownership model. If you love everything to a sub model, surely the budget for creation is much lower across all providers?

It's all NDA so the model could be anything, but the biggest guess is that it's outright and Microsoft likely has an agreement that it's exclusive to Game Pass and can't be on any other service (PS Now)
 

Deleted member 43

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Oct 24, 2017
9,271
How would this be any different from PS? In fact, I think Sony will likely be much worse off since publishers can easily ditch them since PS Now is only 1 million. Getting a big user base onto Game Pass will make it harder for publishers to ditch them. Also consolidating the industry by buying publishers and studios also helps.
Umm, it wouldn't be any different. The point is all these factors make the future impossible to predict.

MS is in a good position, and Now is going to continue expanding quickly.

And fortunately we haven't seen publishers being bought yet, and hopefully we avoid it.
 

Decade_2050

Member
May 19, 2019
111
I am usually a Day 1 person but if the specs of the PS5 are not where I had hoped I will likely just step away and wait for the refresh in 3 years. Since the architecture used in the PS5 appears it will have hardware BC, I suspect that all but the future Sony exclusives will appear on both gen consoles for much longer then the PS3 support lasted after the PS4 release.

I am still hoping they pull something our of their hats at the reveal but I am definitely not feeling the need to bite
if their offerings appear weak
 

12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,722
I still go back to Phil Spencer stating that the business is not to make money off hardware, it is on the software side of things. This has always been the way the business operates.

It is more likely that Microsoft breaks even on hardware, passing the cost benefits to the consumer if it means that they can see more market share and software uptake. It is also normal to think that Sony could do the same, even go higher in the red because PlayStation is the goose that laid the golden egg.

No publisher is going to ditch PlayStation.

Sony will simply react to what the market realities are, and at current, there is nothing that forces them to change their business model.

I never said that publishers will ditch Playstation, I said that publishers are likely going to ditch PS Now more than Game Pass.

Umm, it wouldn't be any different. The point is all these factors make the future impossible to predict.

MS is in a good position, and Now is going to continue expanding quickly.

And fortunately we haven't seen publishers being bought yet, and hopefully we avoid it.

Agreed hopefully it's avoided, but if the Movie industry is anything to go by, I'm doubting it. In fact I probably don't expect a lot of smaller publishers to survive in a industry where Subs is the dominate payment method.
 

Deleted member 43

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Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Many of them are AA studios though which is why Ybarra and that other guy made the comments. I don't think that necessarily means anything though. What was Double Helix pre-KI? Asobo pre-Flight Sim? I could go on, those were just 2 recent examples off the top of my head
To keep a steady and consistent supply of new content that MS owns flowing to GP, they will be pursuing both AAA and AA titles.

Think of it like Netflix. They have giant blockbusters, but they have much more smaller scale stuff. It's not sustainable to only put out AAA When they need consistent new content.
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
Did you guys forget what Tom Warren said? He said he wonders how both Sony and MS will count Ray Tracing towards the final TF. Aquarius might be correct - PS5 might have a seoerate ray tracing unit.

If this is true, and XSX has AMD RT integrated into the CUs, and Sony has a separate chip, then it could be possible that the CU size for Sony is smaller and they can fit more CUs into a given die size.

I can't imagine Sony doing this is basic Navi has gaps reserved for RT, that's horribly inefficient

I think the RT solution for both consoles is from AMD...who would provide a better alternative?
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,038
I am usually a Day 1 person but if the specs of the PS5 are not where I had hoped I will likely just step away and wait for the refresh in 3 years. Since the architecture used in the PS5 appears it will have hardware BC, I suspect that all but the future Sony exclusives will appear on both gen consoles for much longer then the PS3 support lasted after the PS4 release.

I am still hoping they pull something our of their hats at the reveal but I am definitely not feeling the need to bite
if their offerings appear weak

Sony are much more likely to cut ties with PS4 quickly and transition first party to ps5. MS may do cross gen for longer based on comments they've made.

And I wouldn't hold my breath for mid gen refresh
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,088
I never said that publishers will ditch Playstation, I said that publishers are likely going to ditch PS Now more than Game Pass.

I mean that really depends on how things go and what Sony does with NOW and how everything work out .
Sony can easily say give there PS+ members 2 or 3 free months or do a bundle and then you have millions of users.
Right now there is no need for that but you never know what can happen .
 

Deleted member 20297

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Oct 28, 2017
6,943
I think Sony gamers are a lost cause and they shouldn't aim for them. But the new console gamer, which is what Microsoft is doing and should be doing

I'm gonna say this a lot but I expect MS to have Lockhart a big loss leader in price to get people into the Xbox Ecosystem, having Game Pass + allowing gamers to play their games on XCloud is what I think a big marketing push.
Sony had 100 million customers this gen. If you think so many people won't switch to Xbox if they come up with an attractive offer then you are wrong :-)
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,156
When there is one SKU. But if they are going with a low end and high end, part of the point of the high end is to reduce losses with customers who are willing to pay more.

I think Phil (or a MS slide I saw) also said the allure of the most powerful console is it attracts the kind of buyer who is willing to spend big bucks throughout the life of the console. That intuitively makes sense to me. This gen I've purchased all 3 consoles (upgraded to the X and PS pro w PSVR), sub to services, and bought lots of games. Sony, MS and Nintendo would love to have their console be my main system for multiplats, etc. For me, that's the X right now.

Basically, I'm a sucker and these companies should woo me.

edit -

And I wouldn't hold my breath for mid gen refresh

I think this is the last "gen" that will resemble a traditional console launch.
 
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gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,088
If this is true, and XSX has AMD RT integrated into the CUs, and Sony has a separate chip, then it could be possible that the CU size for Sony is smaller and they can fit more CUs into a given die size.

I can't imagine Sony doing this is basic Navi has gaps reserved for RT, that's horribly inefficient

I think the RT solution for both consoles is from AMD...who would provide a better alternative?

Power VR and there RT is good from what i read .
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,924
MS is certainly capable of absorbing losses, and is willing to do so to achieve this vision, but they are not going to let Xbox go off the rails. It needs to bring in money. Part of the way Phil sold MS on the current vision (per my understanding) was to say this is the path to profitability Xbox had almost always failed to reach.

And while MS certainly is in a great position (probably the best) to build this everywhere subscription service, it's not anywhere close to certain they will be the most successful. PlayStation is a bigger brand, every publisher is getting into the field so it will get harder to source third party content, Amazon or Google or Apple could decide to really get into things, etc.

I wouldn't make any bets for the future.
Netflix had every advantage imaginable (subverting two huge business that were problematic), became globally recognized as THE streaming services and it's profits are Nothing to write home about a decade later and the horizon doesn't look good. I'm not convinced that becoming the Netflix of games is something that can be achieved, and if it is, it might not be all that lucrative.

streaming services need to accomplish 3 things to be successful in the long run:
1. Be profitable enough to be sustainable for the platform
2. Fair compensation for content creators
3. Sustain enough content at a low enough price to drive the necessary user base

almost every service has failed at one of those.
 

Sunlight

Member
Apr 22, 2019
375
Summary after leaks


Sparkman: Lockhart
Arden: xex

PS5 SOC
Ariel: late 2017
Gonzalo: 2018
OBR A0/B0: early 2019
New revisions: Nov. 2019

The github data is a mess, full of wrong number and maybe some outdated info.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,831
To keep a steady and consistent supply of new content that MS owns flowing to GP, they will be pursuing both AAA and AA titles.

Think of it like Netflix. They have giant blockbusters, but they have much more smaller scale stuff. It's not sustainable to only put out AAA When they need consistent new content.
In that case, then with sony increasing priority of PSNow, do you think that they will pursue more AA content as well?
 
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