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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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The things is are they making money on GP.
Do people think MS is going to take hit on GP and hardware .
If it's one thing is these sypes of services take a while before they bring in money even more so at price MS doing deals at .
So why don't you think PS5 can't be $399 at 9tf? If Sony was going to take a hit and make that money back in a game purchase with PS+/PS NOW.
Richard from Digital Foundry even believes Playstation is going for a more balanced box and that also means $399 price point.
We don't know what the cost is, so I'm not ruling that out.
because it was under several different assumptions that the leak pretty much nullifies.
1) i thought the ps5 would be on 7nm EUV which would mean a 20% smaller part and 10% more efficient. leaks suggest that the ps5 is navi 10 and likely 7nm.
2) it would have rdna 2.0 power efficiency which means less power consumed per clock. leaks suggest ps5 is rdna 1
3) it would be using hbm2. we now know they are using gddr6. IF you believe the leaks.
4) we were under the assumption sony went wide and slow and were only pushing clocks that high because their cooling solution allowed them to. we now know that is not the case. again, IF you believe the leaks.
basically, we all knew 2.0 ghz was a pipe dream but we had faith in sony to design the console like they always have instead of freaking out at the last moment and clocking it at 2.0 ghz as a final hail mary attempt. you can actually search 'hail mary' in the last few threads and you will get many hits because we all knew 2.0 ghz wide and narrow design was a hail mary attempt at building a console. we simply refused to believe it.
I do think PS5 can be 399 at 9tf, it's just a few people here telling me that wouldn't be the case.
If it's 9tf then it has to be 399 I think, but many think that it'll end up being more powerful so we'll have to wait and see.
I would if it's an absolute beast. Would be cool if they just released a box that big which you could use as a PC too. $600 for a damn good PC/gaming console, yes please.
For reference, N7P is up to 10% faster performance at the same power. Vmin reducing 50mV means better undervolting.
This is valid for all 5700XT to next gen console GPU comparisons.
wikichip said:N7P (2nd Gen) vs N7 (1st Gen) improvements. (VLSI 2019)
In 2019 TSMC introduced a 2nd-generation N7 process called N7 Performance-enhanced (N7P). N7P is an optimized version of TSMC N7 process. to that end, it remains a DUV-based process, keeping the same design rules and is fully IP-compatible with N7. N7P introduces FEOL and MOL optimizations which are said to translate to either 7% performance improvement at iso-power or up to 10% lower power at iso-speed.
For their second generation process, TSMC made some additional optimizations, including fin profile optimizations, epi optimizations, MOL resistance optimizations, FEOL capacitance reduction, and metal gate optimizations. Additionally, at the same leakage, at high frequencies, the second-generation 7nm process has improved the Vmin by 50 mV.
This is valid for all 5700XT to next gen console GPU comparisons.
Ugh I know these aren't out yet,but are they going to make a ps5 pro and a xbox series xxx console like this gen?
It would be funny if the only thing keeping Microsoft and Sony from talking more about their consoles is some upcoming tech reveal from AMD.
So Sony would get a slower chip, but potentially have equal or higher BOM...
It ain't happening like this. I'm fully expecting a ~13TF machine.
if MS are back to the EEE days, then yes 100%. If ms has most powerful console at = or < ps5 price and $1 gamepass (maybe free with new console)...well who but a trillion dollar corporation with ties to the cia and us military could compete with that.
If there are no obvious bottlenecks with PS5 like PS3 with the split memory and X1 with Esram then I'll be pretty content purchasing a PS5 at £350 like the PS4 was, bonus being ill be able to bring over my library.
I imagine that will play a bigger roll going into next gen and can see marketing pushing that narrative as well especially if MS will be pushing the power game. And also very curious which system will be faster to load a game up and general loading times, didn't quite work out this gen especially as it went on but it should be much better with SSD's.
I imagine that will play a bigger roll going into next gen and can see marketing pushing that narrative as well especially if MS will be pushing the power game. And also very curious which system will be faster to load a game up and general loading times, didn't quite work out this gen especially as it went on but it should be much better with SSD's.
All the talk from Jim Ryan, Mark Cerny all points to a more balanced box that is price concious. I said this over a year ago, and I stand by it. They know what is the sweet price point to hit, and them not going over to 10+ tf keeps them within that price in terms of cooling, size of console, PCB. I think they won't make a huge profit on it and are ok with that.
Hence why they have been so tight lipped on their library. They want people to continue buying PS4 games that will work on PS5. If they don't have let's say a version of FF7:remake out for PS5, you just buy PS4 version and it works.
People keep buying on their platform which makes up the loss on the hardware.
Hence their talk on quickly transitioning players quickly.
9.2tf console @ $399 I think is super plausible and is what Sony is trying to aim for.
I'm not. Their messaging hasn't been "the most powerful console". Though they had a PR blip a while back, majority of their messaging through the interview and Wired articles is creating a balanced system. That means not making the most powerful console. WHich is what PS4 was, balanced. They have always gone that rout if you look at their hardware history. ANd it works.
Rich put it excellently in the video: the PS5 GPU specs leak aligns with everything out there before that had concrete links. It also aligns with the reasonable position regarding console wattage and price. Perhaps you may have seen a post I made earlier here a few threads ago? Something about 36 CUs? Maybe Yeah.
But it would be neat to see if that is still somehow not the whole picture.
Series X though seems to be the outlier going beyond usual assumptions.
Interesting times, now just to see what on earth RT Implementation is and how it scales with CU and clockspeeds and other factors.
But it would be neat to see if that is still somehow not the whole picture.
Series X though seems to be the outlier going beyond usual assumptions.
Interesting times, now just to see what on earth RT Implementation is and how it scales with CU and clockspeeds and other factors.
What are we talking about here , PS4 TDP and price or more?
This may even come with a bonus to off-state power draw which is important for console mnfr. and power conscience consumers.
Thanks for your input Alex!
Please send our greetings to Richard :)
We're not getting a 2GHz GPU lol. For all y'all talk about console wattage, how can you not consider that. Very disappointed.
Well it ps5 is 399 and xsx 499 or even 599 ok.
But I still don't believe in 12 tflops since is just a target. I think they will reach 10.6-10.8 max
I just had a really quick look at the pc 5700 overclocking scene and it seems they are limited to 1850mhz at +20% power limits, after soft modding and unlocking higher power limits (+50%), 1950-2050mhz overclocks can be reached depending on the quality of your silicon. So basically, if that's the top end on pc then good luck reaching that on an apu in a console form factor.
If Sony can really sell a console with a 9.2 tflop gpu, hw ray tracing, 8 core 16 threads zen 2, custom SSD and 16GB of RAM for 399$/€, I'll eat my hat with the banana which now we all know will be in the box.
The devkit was a sign
That console size form factor and the fans
Still think it will come in lower than 9.2
Yep. Makes no sense. Not all chips will even be able to hit 2GHz so yield would be affected. Then you have to factor in extra cooling costs...
You'd be left with something that costs simiarily to XSX BOM, but with substantially less performance...
Oh that is something completely considered, hence why the Gpu is being tested at varying speeds in the tests before and how xb1 could see MHz changing pre launch.
The leak regarding final clock speed should not be considered final, as Rich States in the video. APU CU count though is the real more concrete information.
I'm hoping someone can give me a helping hand. I vaguely remember Microsoft having b-roll and marketing material of a hardware component that was all black (it may have been ram). Does anyone else remember this?
Is Lockhart still expected to be 4tf? If so, why a console that would be seemingly worse than the Xbox One X?
What do you make of the several sources in the industry stating otherwise? Like Schreier for example? Haven't you guys heard similar rumblings from developers or other sources?
It was just weeks ago that Schreier reiterated his points about both consoles being close and aiming to top the Stadia numbers. Did something change?
I don't think we've seen anything from Oberon aside from 2GHz.
I do not know what to make of one-off Twitter posts and such.
I think it is obvious though that next gen consoles like PS5 will be better than stadia. Even x1x is better than stadia in many titles.
PS5 GPU look excellent in this leak.
We might say that ~9TF Navi is better then ~10TF Vega GPU in Stadia and relatively close to ~12TF in Series X.
If it's a 1080p optimized box that's plenty and the cpu and ssd will improve the overall experience more than a beefier gpu at that res target.
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