Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)

Kyoufu · Dec 27, 2019

ArabianPrynce said:
having the actual specs that i wanted that actually made excited for this gen, double digit tflops, high amounts of ram etc. What got me hyped this gen is to see both ms and sony go all out and not compromise thanks to the available to hardware. I mainly play on playstation, so it sad to see sony compromise and go for the afforable route again.

What's the difference between 9TF and 10TF? How will a double digit TF GPU change your experience from disappointment to "next-gen"? Why are you so fixated on TFlops? Why do the rest of the system features not matter? What about the games? lol. Consoles are always a compromise. They have to be affordable, but you make it sound like they baked a potato when in reality they've got dedicated Ray Tracing hardware, a powerful GPU with who knows what customisations, a powerful modern CPU and a high bandwidth SSD.

That's one fine looking potato. Mmm.

JahIthBer · Dec 27, 2019

Expy said:
Because it's probably not the PS5 chip. He clearly says in the interview. " . "There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware,"

Right, but people thought this was the PS5 chip for the longest time is my point, now due to SX 12TF talk & what Cerny said, people are ignoring the BC aspect of it lines up perfectly. This is a speculation thread, so it shouldn't be illegal to say maybe Sony is going for that $399 ballpark again.

Grayson · Dec 27, 2019

JahIthBer said:
Right, but people thought this was the PS5 chip for the longest time is my point, now due to SX 12TF talk & what Cerny said, people are ignoring the BC aspect of it lines up perfectly. This is a speculation thread, so it shouldn't be illegal to say maybe Sony is going for that $399 ballpark again.

You could say it but it conveniently ignores what the chief architect said. Not illegal but ill informed.

Expy · Dec 27, 2019

JahIthBer said:
Right, but people thought this was the PS5 chip for the longest time is my point, now due to SX 12TF talk & what Cerny said, people are ignoring the BC aspect of it lines up perfectly. This is a speculation thread, so it shouldn't be illegal to say maybe Sony is going for that $399 ballpark again.

Speculation is fine, within the guidelines set by the moderation staff. And with a pretty good stream of moderator posts in this thread, there are quite a few guidelines.

senjutsusage · Dec 27, 2019

Evodelu said:
You're not above anyone on this forum, we are equals. Please refrain from using text in such a way as to infer that your points are more important.

It's called emphasis, and I will now be ignoring you. I will use the features the forum gives me access to. You are in no position to dictate to me what I should and shouldn't do.

RoboPlato · Dec 27, 2019

JahIthBer said:
Right, but people thought this was the PS5 chip for the longest time is my point, now due to SX 12TF talk & what Cerny said, people are ignoring the BC aspect of it lines up perfectly. This is a speculation thread, so it shouldn't be illegal to say maybe Sony is going for that $399 ballpark again.

The point I'm at is that this could be a $399 PS5 or the PS5 could be $499 and have better specs. Either situation is fine with me. Obviously I would prefer higher specs but if they can deliver the system at a good price then it'll do well and probably run games just fine. May just have more instances of reconstruction or 1800p which isn't going to be a big deal.

Evodelu · Dec 27, 2019

JahIthBer said:
Ah i see, still Ariel/Oberon are suspiciously close to what PS5 needs for BC. Why it has no RT or possible RDNA 2.0 features is odd.

You're absolutely right. Oberon/Ariel has details which link it with PS5 to a solid degree, we can't escape that. That's a basic fact.

Colbert is also right that extensive testing on a chip that won't end up in the PS5 is odd. That said, we know that Oberon/Ariel lacks features consistent with what we know of the PS5 GPU. We have to reconcile things. I and others have theories, but we won't know for sure until Sony reveals the PS5 in full.

Talus · Dec 27, 2019

Evodelu said:
You're not above anyone on this forum, we are equals. Please refrain from using text in such a way as to infer that your points are more important.

lol what the hell is this? lmao

GUNDAM STARDUST · Dec 27, 2019

Judge said:
Just because some mods aren't posting doesn't mean we aren't watching. There's been a LOT of warnings and bans being handed out and some people still aren't catching on. Please stop with the hostility towards others, the not so sly console warring, and the outright trolling masked as "jokes". It's getting a bit ridiculous in here lately.

Yes, thank you. It's hilarious to watch folks try to reshape their arguments after the mod team enters. They wait 10 minutes like..

AegonSnake · Dec 27, 2019

PleaseDontHurtMe said:
Man this rumored computational gap is driving this thread mad. Honestly, both PS5 and XSX seem to be giant leaps from the current generation, so we shouldn't worry about anemic hardware.

i wouldnt call a 4.5x jump in raw graphical processing power a giant leap. we are coming from an 8x leap from last gen which was already kind of limited. everyone was cutting corners everywhere. unreal engine 4 removed horizon looked great but there was very little interaction. you can watch their behind the scenes footage and they cut the flying and coop out of the game because they couldnt deliver great graphics at the same time. who knows what they will cut next gen.

for the record, before anyone brings up rdna improvements, the ps3 was using an extraordinarily poor rsx gpu which wasnt even on par with the amd gpu in the 360. clearly, amd was able to get more out of its flops when going from terascale to gcn. we just take those arch improvements for granted every gen.

gundamkyoukai said:
It seem that patent is just for a interchange data with a coprocessor it had nothing to do with RT.

well, this is still good news. we know ps5 devkits have rt so maybe oberon isnt the ps5. or maybe oberon is the ps5's lockhart lol.

yes, im getting desperate....

chris 1515 · Dec 27, 2019

Evodelu said:
You're absolutely right. Oberon/Ariel has details which link it with PS5 to a solid degree, we can't escape that. That's a basic fact.

Colbert is also right that extensive testing on a chip that won't end up in the PS5 is odd. That said, we know that Oberon/Ariel lacks features consistent with what we know of the PS5 GPU. We have to reconcile things. I and others have theories, but we won't know for sure until Sony reveals the PS5 in full.

The testing here is just some software regression test, I highly doubt they don't use this sort of test for each version of a devkit.

I read the test.

AegonSnake said:
i wouldnt call a 4.5x jump in raw graphical processing power a giant leap. we are coming from an 8x leap from last gen which was already kind of limited. everyone was cutting corners everywhere. unreal engine 4 removed horizon looked great but there was very little interaction. you can watch their behind the scenes footage and they cut the flying and coop out of the game because they couldnt deliver great graphics at the same time. who knows what they will cut next gen.

for the record, before anyone brings up rdna improvements, the ps3 was using an extraordinarily poor rsx gpu which wasnt even on par with the amd gpu in the 360. clearly, amd was able to get more out of its flops when going from terascale to gcn. we just take those arch improvements for granted every gen.

well, this is still good news. we know ps5 devkits have rt so maybe oberon isnt the ps5. or maybe oberon is the ps5's lockhart lol.

yes, im getting desperate....

Or it is some test for different version devkit. This is just some software regression test.

ArabianPrynce · Dec 27, 2019

Kyoufu said:
What's the difference between 9TF and 10TF? How will a double digit TF GPU change your experience from disappointment to "next-gen"? Why are you so fixated on TFlops? Why do the rest of the system features not matter? What about the games? lol. Consoles are always a compromise. They have to be affordable, but you make it sound like they baked a potato when in reality they've got dedicated Ray Tracing hardware, a powerful GPU with who knows what customisations, a powerful modern CPU and a high bandwidth SSD.

That's one fine looking potato. Mmm.

HAH, i am admitily competitive. Like Aeogonsnake mention the ps5 being 9tflop potentialy means it would perform around 7, considering what ms has for their 12tlop console thats a pretty good gap imo. I can only afford one console so its gonna be a bit dissapointing seeing xsex be sigh a high performing machine thats truly feels like a significant gap from its predeccessor. The only console that is compromising is sony's meanwhile xsex is powerful in all regards.

In hindsight the ps4 and xbone were rather weak, apparently epic games were dissapointed about them before they even launched, i heard that they removed global illumination. It feels like that again this time its only sony thats missing out. tlops matter in imo since console are gpu bound i believe the more powerful your gpu that better.

Evodelu · Dec 27, 2019

chris 1515 said:
The testing here is just some software regression test, I highly doubt they don't use this sort of test for each version of a devkit.

I read the test

Didn't know that, interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

Overall I'm still giving primacy to the information provided by Klee, Schreier, Reiner etc.

Kyoufu · Dec 27, 2019

ArabianPrynce said:
Like Aeogonsnake mention the ps5 being 9tflop potentialy means it would perform around 7

???

danrbg · Dec 27, 2019

DukeBlueBall said:
HW RT but might not show up in the driver dumps. People can rest easy. Oberon has a path to HW RT.

.

z285714 · Dec 27, 2019

RDNA or RDNA2 may be the key point.

gundamkyoukai · Dec 27, 2019

AegonSnake said:
well, this is still good news. we know ps5 devkits have rt so maybe oberon isnt the ps5. or maybe oberon is the ps5's lockhart lol.

yes, im getting desperate....

I mean what ever it end up being it will have hardware RT in the GPU that is fact coming from the man that making the system .
What ever you choose to believe you really can't just ignore that aspect so lets how this all plays out.

RoboPlato · Dec 27, 2019

z285714 said:
RDNA or RDNA2 may be the key point.

RDNA2 is a 7nm+ design so I think it's unlikely that it's in either console. More likely they're integrating key RDNA2 features into a 7nm design.

Firmus_Anguis · Dec 27, 2019

Reading some of the old threadmarks is interesting. Several of Klee's older comments aligning with Matt's and vice versa...

I don't intend to give in to the cynicism I've seen over the last 50 pages or so.

Too many credible sources have said that these consoles will be amazing and that the difference between them will be negligible. And I really believe that'll be the case.

12+ RDNA tflops for SX (get that GCN talk out of here!) and, let's go with Klee's conservative take (~7 %) for the PS5 which puts it at roughly 12.9 RDNA tflops (MS might even close this negligible gap, as Klee's somewhat hinted at before). This estimation is based on Klee's remarks.

But flipping it would put the PS5 at roughly 11.2 tflops. Still fucking amazing.

Why anyone would want it any other way is a mystery to me, but I sincerely believe (based on the amount of credible sources saying similar things for months and months), that one of these scenarios will be the final outcome.

Man, we were all (well, most of us were) celebrating the XS's rumored 12 tflops! It meant the rumors and insider tidbits we were getting were actually true.
It meant our wildest fucking expectations were being surpassed!

I want us to go back to that - That shared excitement for next-gen!

And not fanboyishly and not-so-discretely hope an asspull is going to magically make my preferred console reign supreme!

We're way better than that. I've seen it.

JahIthBer · Dec 27, 2019

ArabianPrynce said:
HAH, i am admitily compitative. Like Aeogonsnake mention the ps5 being 9tflop potentialy means it would perform around 7, considering what ms has for their 12tlop console thats a pretty good gap imo. I can only afford one console so its gonna be a bit dissapointing seeing xsex be sigh a high performing machine when thats truly feels like a significant gap from its predeccessor. The only console that is compromising is sony's meanwhile xsex is powerful in all regards.

In hindsight the ps4 and xbone were rather weak, apparently epic games were dissapointed about them before they even launched, i heard that they removed global illumination. It feels like that again this time its only sony thats missing out. tlops matter in imo since console are gpu bound i believe the more powerful your gpu that better.

It's possible they removed SVOGI due to Consoles, but likely it's because there was far more efficient ways to do GI & they wanted to keep the engine less bloated.
Epic also said PS4 was the perfect gaming PC, the Xbox One they probably thought was under powered but wouldn't say because they had a close relationship with MS at the time.

gundamkyoukai · Dec 27, 2019

danrbg said:
.

Don't why you quote that post since it has nothing to do with RT.
Here the whole patent instead of one page http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2018/0144435.html

amstradcpc said:
That patent only explains how to interchange data with a coprocessor, without detailing it, it could be a Power VR wizard chip or a hardware scaler...

We know it's not a coprocessor since it's in the GPU.

Tappin Brews · Dec 27, 2019

i'm still catching up on this thread, and perhaps my "xbot" card will be revoked for saying this, but what seems to best fit all the credible (imo) information is 9.2 TF ps5 and a 9.x TF xsx. i have no reason not to doubt this latest amd dump, as well as previous leaks from insiders stating both consoles are extremely close. We have some (imo) VERY vague xsx is 2x x1x talk from MS, which i think can be argued a 9.x TF rdna gpu IS 2x as powerful as x1x. both manufactureres (iirc) have downplayed gpu increases over last gen and prefer the conversation to be about ssd and cpu upgrades. next gen speculation seems to ALWAYS end up lower then what is expected. yup, i'm in team 9 TF RDNA for both and am a bit disappointed. i'm sure when we see the games though it'll all be fine :)

Heretic · Dec 27, 2019

Evodelu said:
You're not above anyone on this forum, we are equals. Please refrain from using text in such a way as to infer that your points are more important.

Lol

s y · Dec 27, 2019

Tonky said:
Wait, really? Do you think that's because Visual Concepts now has to split their time between developing the WWE games and NBA games?

No clue, but 2K14 is the best the game's ever looked.The only positives, visually in the more recent entries are that they scan more players and remove the last gen models, same with newer animations and removing the older ones.

Afrikan · Dec 27, 2019

Has anyone tweeted Phil Spencer if he could clarify what he said in the interview? regarding 2X as powerful.

The question could be worded in a way for him to give a simple yes or no answer right?

OneBadMutha · Dec 27, 2019

What I find weird is how much hand wringing there is over this without any context or seeing it in action. PS4 had a 40% GPU advantage when GPU was the defining aspect of this gen and did most of the work thanks to shitty Jaguar CPUs. Despite this and despite most devs struggling with Xbox One memory, Ryse was the best looking next gen game for a few years. Then Xbox One X had the same advantage over the Pro. Despite this, God of War and Horizon ZD are 2 of the 3 best looking games of this gen along with Red Dead. When there were the biggest gaps in visuals, it was due to textures and memory limitations. I thought I was an enthusiast, have a 65" Oled and can't tell at all the difference between a checkerboard game and native game. I realize that might be a me problem...but I think it's also similar amongst the mainstream.

$400 is the right price for the PS5. Microsoft is right to differentiate itself to win back some enthusiasts. When next gen games are shown, people will forget all this shit. There is way more to visual impact than what this amount of GPU power can do for you. Talent comes before that power gap...and all things being equal most people dont notice visual fidelity at this point of diminishing returns. They will feel 60fps and notice no load times with advanced physics.

I think most of the hand wringing is about the sport. This is more about some of you calling your shot and being proven wrong. Like your reputation or identity is at stake based on which console wins the power pissing match. And many of you are reacting poorly and being shitty about it. We're about to have a great console transition and many of you are going to be miserable about it...and for what?

danrbg · Dec 27, 2019

gundamkyoukai said:
Don't why you quote that post since it has nothing to do with RT.

There are people discarding Oberon because it does not have HW RT, which is false.

senjutsusage · Dec 27, 2019

op_ivy said:
i'm still catching up on this thread, and perhaps my "xbot" card will be revoked for saying this, but what seems to best fit all the credible (imo) information is 9.2 TF ps5 and a 9.x TF xsx. i have no reason not to doubt this latest amd dump, as well as previous leaks from insiders stating both consoles are extremely close. We have some (imo) VERY vague xsx is 2x x1x talk from MS, which i think can be argued a 9.x TF rdna gpu IS 2x as powerful as x1x. both manufactureres (iirc) have downplayed gpu increases over last gen and prefer the conversation to be about ssd and cpu upgrades. next gen speculation seems to ALWAYS end up lower then what is expected. yup, i'm in team 9 TF RDNA for both and am a bit disappointed. i'm sure when we see the games though it'll all be fine :)

You have never been so right! lol How dare you!

xolsec · Dec 27, 2019

op_ivy said:
i'm still catching up on this thread, and perhaps my "xbot" card will be revoked for saying this, but what seems to best fit all the credible (imo) information is 9.2 TF ps5 and a 9.x TF xsx. i have no reason not to doubt this latest amd dump, as well as previous leaks from insiders stating both consoles are extremely close. We have some (imo) VERY vague xsx is 2x x1x talk from MS, which i think can be argued a 9.x TF rdna gpu IS 2x as powerful as x1x. both manufactureres (iirc) have downplayed gpu increases over last gen and prefer the conversation to be about ssd and cpu upgrades. next gen speculation seems to ALWAYS end up lower then what is expected. yup, i'm in team 9 TF RDNA for both and am a bit disappointed. i'm sure when we see the games though it'll all be fine :)

That's what I've been thinking myself. 12 RDNA TF would be around RTX 2080 levels of performance crammed into an APU that needs to be on the cheap side.

gundamkyoukai · Dec 27, 2019

danrbg said:
There are people discarding Oberon because it does not have HW RT, which is false.

How is it false ?
Your are using dukeball patent but it has nothing to do with RT but a coprocessor .
In fact here is the whole thing http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2018/0144435.html

AegonSnake · Dec 27, 2019

Kyoufu said:
???

lmao. arabian prynce trying to get me banned.

it was a post last night in response to one of the rogame's tweets where this amd programmer said that oberon tested 82% effectiveness or something. i derived the 7.5 tflops from the 9.2 tflops figure. i qualified my post with a 'maybe it means theoretical performance' but it was clearly taken out of context to mean i was making a statement.

danrbg · Dec 27, 2019

gundamkyoukai said:
How is it false ?
Your are using dukeball patent but it has nothing to do with RT but a coprocessor .
In fact here is the whole thing http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2018/0144435.html

"Oberon has no RT" that's the false thing.

Kyoufu · Dec 27, 2019

AegonSnake said:
lmao. arabian prynce trying to get me banned.

it was a post last night in response to one of the rogame's tweets where this amd programmer said that oberon tested 82% effectiveness or something. i derived the 7.5 tflops from the 9.2 tflops figure. i qualified my post with a 'maybe it means theoretical performance' but it was clearly taken out of context to mean i was making a statement.

Aegon pissing fuel on the flames of this thread. lol

gundamkyoukai · Dec 27, 2019

danrbg said:
Oberon has no RT, that's the false thing.

The leaks you using say it does not ?

JahIthBer · Dec 27, 2019

XolSec said:
That's what I've been thinking myself. 12 RDNA TF would be around RTX 2080 levels of performance crammed into an APU that needs to be on the cheap side.

It's not entirely impossible, RTX 2080 is GTX 1080 Ti performance outside of ray tracing, which was 16nm GPU in early 2017. I think Consoles could always match or exceed that at 7nm with RDNA in late 2020. Plus the 1080 Ti is ass at compute & lacks VSR, which is why even in 2018 i said PS5 could probably beat the 1080 Ti soundly.
Maybe MS will at $499, but Sony could go for $399, who knows.

Crazy_KiD_169 said:
I think they can read pretty clearly, all I see is people trying their best to force something to be true despite the facts.

It was an honest mistake, i was thinking purely of the first Wired interview, im fully aware that PS5 will have some form of RT.

ArabianPrynce · Dec 27, 2019

AegonSnake said:
lmao. arabian prynce trying to get me banned.

it was a post last night in response to one of the rogame's tweets where this amd programmer said that oberon tested 82% effectiveness or something. i derived the 7.5 tflops from the 9.2 tflops figure. i qualified my post with a 'maybe it means theoretical performance' but it was clearly taken out of context to mean i was making a statement.

Oh I am so sorry lol, I didnt mean to throw you under the bus. You know more about hardware than I do so i used your statement lol. didnt mean to cause trouble

senjutsusage · Dec 27, 2019

XolSec said:
That's what I've been thinking myself. 12 RDNA TF would be around RTX 2080 levels of performance crammed into an APU that needs to be on the cheap side.

Microsoft damn near built a mini pc tower. I think they mean business with Xbox Series X. RTX 2080 class performance or beyond here we come. That's what I'm sticking with till I see otherwise.

Patent · Dec 27, 2019

JahIthBer said:
It's not entirely impossible, RTX 2080 is GTX 1080 Ti performance outside of ray tracing, which was 16nm GPU in early 2017. I think Consoles could always match or exceed that at 7nm with RDNA in late 2020. Plus the 1080 Ti is ass at compute & lacks VSR, which is why even in 2018 i said PS5 could probably beat the 1080 Ti soundly.
Maybe MS will at $499, but Sony could go for $399, who knows.

$399 10.2TF
$499 12TF

Crazy_KiD_169 · Dec 27, 2019

Expy said:
Holy balls, people need to READ PROPERLY. Read the threadsmarks, read up...

Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5

Now that the name is official, we've got more details about Sony's next-gen console—from the haptics-packed controller to UI improvements.

www.wired.com

I think they can read pretty clearly, all I see is people trying their best to force something to be true despite the facts.

disco_potato · Dec 27, 2019

Colbert said:
sleepr
^^ I like cats

I like you but that might put you on my black list.

Premium · Dec 27, 2019

Crazy_KiD_169 said:
I think they can read pretty clearly, all I see is people trying their best to force something to be true despite the facts.

What facts?

sncvsrtoip · Dec 27, 2019

Kyoufu said:
Aegon pissing fuel on the flames of this thread. lol

It's when 14tf expectation meet reality :d

SomeoneSomewhere · Dec 27, 2019

Talus said:
lol what the hell is this? lmao

Crazy shit.

Tappin Brews · Dec 27, 2019

senjutsusage said:
You have never been so right! lol How dare you!

lol, i hope this didnt contribute to your banning ;)

Tappin Brews · Dec 27, 2019

senjutsusage said:
Microsoft damn near built a mini pc tower. I think they mean business with Xbox Series X. RTX 2080 class performance or beyond here we come. That's what I'm sticking with till I see otherwise.

and sony has that crazy V devkit.

alstrike · Dec 27, 2019

I'm through page 251 and suddenly it's 283... WTF happened today? Did Kleegamefan or someone else drop a bomb?

OneBadMutha · Dec 27, 2019

AegonSnake said:
i wouldnt call a 4.5x jump in raw graphical processing power a giant leap. we are coming from an 8x leap from last gen which was already kind of limited. everyone was cutting corners everywhere. unreal engine 4 removed horizon looked great but there was very little interaction. you can watch their behind the scenes footage and they cut the flying and coop out of the game because they couldnt deliver great graphics at the same time. who knows what they will cut next gen.

for the record, before anyone brings up rdna improvements, the ps3 was using an extraordinarily poor rsx gpu which wasnt even on par with the amd gpu in the 360. clearly, amd was able to get more out of its flops when going from terascale to gcn. we just take those arch improvements for granted every gen.

well, this is still good news. we know ps5 devkits have rt so maybe oberon isnt the ps5. or maybe oberon is the ps5's lockhart lol.

yes, im getting desperate....

Things missing from this breakdown:
- Massive CPU jumps
- Amount of work GPUs were responsible for last gen that they wont be this gen
- Diminishing returns in terms of fidelity
- Amount of impact CPUs can have on visuals in motion
- The resolution cost eating up the majority of last gen GPUs
- Massive jump in IO

We didn't get a straight 8x leap last gen. CPUs and IO speeds barely changed and that's a significant part of the overall hardware.

AegonSnake · Dec 27, 2019

Firmus_Anguis said:
Reading some of the old threadmarks is interesting. Several of Klee's older comments aligning with Matt's and vice versa...

I don't intend to give in to the cynicism I've seen over the last 50 pages or so.

Too many credible sources have said that these consoles will be amazing and that the difference between them will be negligible. And I really believe that'll be the case.

12+ RDNA tflops for SX (get that GCN talk out of here!) and, let's go with Klee's conservative take (~7 %) for the PS5 which puts it at roughly 12.9 RDNA tflops (MS might even close this negligible gap, as Klee's somewhat hinted at before). This estimation is based on Klee's remarks.

But flipping it would put the PS5 at roughly 11.2 tflops. Still fucking amazing.

Why anyone would want it any other way is a mystery to me, but I sincerely believe (based on the amount of credible sources saying similar things for months and months), that one of these scenarios will be the final outcome.

Man, we were all (well, most of us were) celebrating the XS's rumored 12 tflops! It meant the rumors and insider tidbits we were getting were actually true.
It meant our wildest fucking expectations were being surpassed!

I want us to go back to that - That shared excitement for next-gen!

And not fanboyishly and not-so-discretely hope an asspull is going to magically make my preferred console reign supreme!

We're way better than that. I've seen it.

at the end of the day, it will be extremely interesting to see just what these gonzalo and oberon tests and benchmarks were for.

ArabianPrynce said:
Oh I am so sorry lol, I didnt mean to throw you under the bus. You know more about hardware than I do so i used your statement lol. didnt mean to cause trouble

its all good, and i dont know much about hardware. i might have a degree in computer engineering but i always hated the electrical engineering courses. now i code for a living and pay ungodly amount of money to electricians for fixing simple electrical issues around the house.

John Frost · Dec 27, 2019

Finally.

Tappin Brews · Dec 27, 2019

alstrike said:
I'm through page 251 and suddenly it's 283... WTF happened today? Did Kleegamefan or someone else drop a bomb?

nope. turns out the thread goes to shit when we get leaks that ps5 > next-box (reiner e3 2019) AND when we get info that may indicate ps5 is a fair bit less powerful than expected (~24 hours ago).

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)

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