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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)

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Fastidioso

Fastidioso

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Nov 3, 2017
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Brohan said:
Yes and he kept referring to the PS5 having a slight edge in performance but again this might not have to point to a higher flop count perse. Which after having just checked made no specific statements about other than both consoles having higher than 10tf.



Yeah i don't see why this would be a good idea from a business standpoint. Let's just have our next gen console be at minimal specs just so we can reach a $400 pricepoint because we want our ps4 base to switch asap.

The next gen consoles both need to do their best to be exciting and powerful because people aren't going to choose a significantly less powerful console simply because it's slightly cheaper and has BC.
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And again why not specify it if it was real the case, especially lately? I don't follow such bizzarre conjecture. He doesn't work for Sony, no need to play with the words to talk about such differences. Isn't it more reasonable think he is referring of something straightly evident in the specs and not about intricate stuff around the hardware customisation?
 
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Bosch

Bosch

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May 15, 2019
3,680
gundamkyoukai said:
PS2 sold better because it came out much earlier and had loads of exclusives software .
That is no longer the case now.
Sony does not want you only buying just there exclusives but 3rd party games on there system.
So the get money from DLC , MTX ,PS+ etc etc .
Most people don't buy more than one consoles and have a PC .
So they have to make there system as attractive as possible.
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Who the hell with a PC will buy a Xbox? The only smart choice is ps5
 
DriftingSpirit

DriftingSpirit

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Oct 25, 2017
17,897
Brohan said:
Yeah i don't see why this would be a good idea from a business standpoint. Let's just have our next gen console be at minimal specs just so we can reach a $400 pricepoint because we want our ps4 base to switch asap.

The next gen consoles both need to do their best to be exciting and powerful because people aren't going to choose a significantly less powerful console simply because it's slightly cheaper and has BC.
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And if you want to follow that logic, why not just go even lower and just release a machine on par with Lock? They would move even faster at $299.

These consoles will be on the market for 7-8 years. It makes more long term sense to release the best console as possible now so it will last longer later.

Bosch said:
Compared to current gen a 8-9 tflops with a modern cpu will be really powerfull . 9 tflops rdna is double than Xbox one x. Cpu will be at least 4x more powerfull. Ssd... Gddr6... Yeah man 5-6 times more powerfull than a ps4.

Problem is people here expectations when they say really powerfull and then desilusional think of high end gpus perf.
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My main point was how both machines will be on par with one another. There won't be a 4TF difference between them.
 
Spicy Noodles

Spicy Noodles

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May 29, 2018
765
User warned: Trolling and low effort posting
My PS5 prediction:

CPU Zen Kaioken x10 - 16 cores 420 threads 6.2 Ghz
RAM HBM360 + DDR69, over 9000GB total
Custom Liquid Cooling
V12 GPU 20TF Super Sayian 3 1200 horsepower 4k hd toshiba
4TB Twin Turbo Super charged SSD 720GB

$399
 
Ushay

Ushay

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Oct 27, 2017
8,347
You know what I really want to see in these new consoles? Dedicated audio solutions on the motherboard. A LOT of gamers wear headsets for both gaming and general media.
Would love to see them design bespoke solutions with high end headsets for the next gen, wireless in particular. The 3rd part efforts have been shite for the most part (except the Arctis Pro).
 
OneBadMutha

OneBadMutha

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Nov 2, 2017
6,059
gundamkyoukai said:
That is not really true you what to look at it from a business stand point without looking at all the factors .
Sony does not want there system much weaker because they could lose out on some hardcore gamers .
Who is spend the most money and buy there system early while also having a brand effect that can go down to other users and friends.
Which is even more important now thanks to everything becoming cross play .
If Sony doing one console means there going want to hit as many different types as users as possible with that one console.
If they have to take a lost to do it that is what they will do .
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Hardcore gamers that went with Sony this gen are all but locked up. They aren't giving up their libraries and Sony exclusives for tflops. Ditto goes for hardcore gamers who primarily gamed on Xbox this gen. There's a much larger bucket of gamers they could lose over price than performance.
 

Deleted member 59519

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Aug 26, 2019
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Thorrgal said:
Again, I'm on your side on this lol, not sure why would the abandoned the tried and proven $399 formula...

But guess they6 going for it? Just less than 2 months now lol, can't wait!
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Specs at the reveal should give us an indication of whether it's $399 or $499, but I could see them holding off on announcing price (officially) until E3. And who knows, maybe they pull a fast one and hit us with a $389 or $489 price tag. Something no one is expecting, a true surprise to Microsoft.
 

Deleted member 52190

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10,681
OneBadMutha said:
Yeah we do. I'm no insider. I haven't researched the rumors or details of these specs as well as most of you. I'm strictly looking at this zoomed out from a business standpoint. Hell Sony may have considered everything I said but the people who get paid exponentially more than me decided different.

Sony has the console enthusiasts locked up due to their exclusives and a much bigger digital install base. It's all about converting those casuals asap before they the point is this, do they need 399 in the first year or 2 years?
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My question is, does Sony need the 399 before the first 2 years? Can they get the price low to justify going for a stronger console?

The thing about the ps4 is, after 6 months the console was already sold at profit but they only did a price cut only 3 years later (?) In 2016.
 
OneBadMutha

OneBadMutha

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Dimajjio said:
I certainly will entertain the idea. It's not all about new games, there are some great oldies on the Xbox that play better there or aren't available on PC.
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I'll go a step further. Xbox and PC are great compliments if you like both platforms for different reasons. Game Pass Ultimate is what pushed me over the edge for a gaming PC for the first time in about 15 years. Game Pass is big X factor for Xbox because once you have the console, you don't need to buy more games...especially if you already committed to Game Pass on the PC side.
 
gundamkyoukai

gundamkyoukai

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Oct 25, 2017
21,104
OneBadMutha said:
Hardcore gamers that went with Sony this gen are all but locked up. They aren't giving up their libraries and Sony exclusives for tflops. Ditto goes for hardcore gamers who primarily gamed on Xbox this gen. There's a much larger bucket of gamers they could lose over price than performance.
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A lot of hardcore gamers went with them because there were cheaper and more powerful .
Saying they on lock would be complacence for any business person to say when bringing out a much weaker system even at a cheaper price.
Not all users are worth same and the lower end will come with time.
Like they always do when price get cheaper .
 
Saint-14

Saint-14

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Below 10 TF talk about the PS5 can't be serious right? That's max 3 TF more than the 1X, no matter how much you explain how RDNA flops are better to the casual market they won't understand, it's still possible to hit the "magic" 399 price if they want to even with a +12 TF console, early adopters spend a lot of money (recently Sony talked about early PS4 adopters spending over 1.6k on avaerage) so that will offset the money lost on hardware.
 
OneBadMutha

OneBadMutha

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Snakeeee said:
My question is, does Sony need the 399 before the first 2 years? Can they get the price low to justify going for a stronger console?

The thing about the ps4 is, after 6 months the console was already sold at profit but they only did a price cut only 3 years later (?) In 2016.
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Need? No. They'll move consoles at 499. They'll move them much faster at 399 and that 399 could equate to 349 or even 299 at Black Friday 2 years out. That's when the mainstream starts jumping in. 5G is only a few years away from hitting mainstream and I think they'll want to lock down PS4 gamers before it hits.

Sony has more to contend with from a business standpoint. For Xbox we keep talking Series X but Lockhart with Game Pass is going to sell a lot more. That's the real interesting skew from a business standpoint. Hardcore are locked up. For casuals, Sony is competing with the 4tf Lockhart and eventually streaming, not Series X.
 
Pryme

Pryme

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Aug 23, 2018
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Bosch said:
Who the hell with a PC will buy a Xbox? The only smart choice is ps5
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I will. Consoles have their place.

It does seem like you don't really know what a PC is, since that covers everything from Macbooks, ultrabooks, small form factor desktops with iGPUs and the huge percentage of Steam gamers rocking GPUs with power levels below the GTX 1060.

I'll also buy a PS5 day one.
 
Fastidioso

Fastidioso

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Saint-14 said:
Below 10 TF talk about the PS5 can't be serious right? That's max 3 TF more than the 1X, no matter how much you explain how RDNA flops are better to the casual market they won't understand, it's still possible to hit the "magic" 399 price if they want to even with a +12 TF console, early adopters spend a lot of money (recently Sony talked about early PS4 adopters spending over 1.6k on avaerage) so that will offset the money lost on hardware.
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People who said this are mostly convinced the ps5 is ahead to the X series solely with bizzarre conjecture about combination of higher bandwidth profile, SSD stuff and so on. But if the same source repeated nothing is changed and ps5 is still ahead, to me it's clear TF counts is not lower.
 
OneBadMutha

OneBadMutha

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gundamkyoukai said:
A lot of hardcore gamers went with them because there were cheaper and more powerful .
Saying they on lock would be complacence for any business person to say when bringing out a much weaker system even at a cheaper price.
Not all users are worth same and the lower end will come with time.
Like they always do when price get cheaper .
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They lucked out in 2013 because Mattrick was infatuated with the Kinect. It's highly unlikely that either brand could win in both power and price at the same time. They have to prioritize. It's not complacent. It's about having the right strategy based on market conditions, competition and their existing customers.
 

Deleted member 52190

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OneBadMutha said:
Need? No. They'll move consoles at 499. They'll move them much faster at 399 and that 399 could equate to 349 or even 299 at Black Friday 2 years out. That's when the mainstream starts jumping in. 5G is only a few years away from hitting mainstream and I think they'll want to lock down PS4 gamers before it hits.

Sony has more to contend with from a business standpoint. For Xbox we keep talking Series X but Lockhart with Game Pass is going to sell a lot more. That's the real interesting skew from a business standpoint. Hardcore are locked up. For casuals, Sony is competing with the 4tf Lockhart and eventually streaming, not Series X.
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Nah, they will compete against both. If they can get the price to 399$ in 2 years then is worth it to go for 499$.
 
Brohan

Brohan

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Oct 26, 2017
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Fastidioso said:
And again why not specify it if it was real the case, especially lately? I don't follow such bizzarre conjecture. He doesn't work for Sony, no need to play with the words to talk about such differences. Isn't it more reasonable think he is referring of something straightly evident in the specs and not about intricate stuff around the hardware customisation?
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Maybe because he didn't want to get too specific in order to not implicate his friend?

Anyways it seems my idea about this situation doesn't hold up anyways because Evodelu posted a quote of Klee in which he states that the PS5 has a higher Teraflop count. (Still haven't seen in myself because my Phone doesn't wanna work with me but i have no reason to doubt Evodelu.)
 
Pryme

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OneBadMutha said:
Hardcore gamers that went with Sony this gen are all but locked up. They aren't giving up their libraries and Sony exclusives for tflops. Ditto goes for hardcore gamers who primarily gamed on Xbox this gen. There's a much larger bucket of gamers they could lose over price than performance.
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'Lock-in' is deceptive. Digital libraries don't expire, so it's not like anyone loses out if they don't buy the next gen version of their existing console straight away.
It's even worse for your theory now the industry is going crossplay. The hardcore gamers can play Call of Duty, FIFA etc on any console they pick, with their friends.

BC gives a great incentive and a pretty decent advantage, but I doubt there's any 'lock in' for tons of people.

Certainly not as profound as the likes of the iPhone lock-in in North America where iMessage keeps users in the Apple ecosystem.
 

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DriftingSpirit said:
Jason, Matt, Klee - "Both consoles will be very powerful and very much so on par with one another"

A few on Era - "A $399 PS5 at 8TF seems more likely"

🤔
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Also more than a few in Era and somewhere citing that their sources say PS5 will have 40/36 CUs or 10 teraflops. Ive been looking for an idea on this sources... and let's hope it's not wjm47196.
 
dynamitejim

dynamitejim

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Oct 25, 2017
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I think the most simple answer for the "SSD" on next gen consoles is that they'll use whatever setup AMD's Pro SSG line use.

Just look at the specs:

This new generation gets all the upgrades that come with Vega, like 16GB HBM2 with a 2,048-bit memory interface. More importantly, AMD's SSG API allows application developers to let the GPU talk directly to the 2TB of on-board SSD storage, bypassing the CPU, PCIe bus, and system interface, which can create bottlenecks. AMD says the SSG portion of the card can read data at up to 8GB/s and write data at up to 6GB/s. That's a lot slower than HBM2, but with the High-Bandwidth Cache Controller (HBCC) and thanks to the direct access, it's still over twice as fast as talking to SSDs over the PCIe bus.
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No need for ReRam or anything crazy when AMD already has the hardware (HBCC) built into their chips AND (arguably just as important) has APIs for developers to use it. With this setup, the NAND is seen by the GPU as extended RAM and can be directly accessed by it. Why would Sony or MS use anything else when both HW and SW are already there from AMD?
 
Chamber

Chamber

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Oct 25, 2017
5,279
You're likely sacrificing more than TFLOPS to hit $399. RAM and cooling/noise are going to take hits there for sure. The difference in multiplatform titles v. Series X would absolutely be noticeable which doesn't jive with any of the real rumors we have.
 
Fastidioso

Fastidioso

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Nov 3, 2017
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Brohan said:
Maybe because he didn't want to get too specific in order to not implicate his friend?

Anyways it seems my idea about this situation doesn't hold up anyways because Evodelu posted a quote of Klee in which he states that the PS5 has a higher Teraflop count. (Still haven't seen in myself because my Phone doesn't wanna work with me but i have no reason to doubt Evodelu.)
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Which was totally expectable. With all respect. The crazy chats around this matter those days were really ridiculous. If such 'superiority' wasn't straightly evident in the specs, no one would have talked about it.
 
Hybrid Rainbow

Hybrid Rainbow

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Jun 23, 2019
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Fastidioso said:
And again why not specify it if it was real the case, especially lately? I don't follow such bizzarre conjecture. He doesn't work for Sony, no need to play with the words to talk about such differences. Isn't it more reasonable think he is referring of something straightly evident in the specs and not about intricate stuff around the hardware customisation?
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Lol Come on this is common sense. If he gave out specifics that only a few certain studios knew, you don't think the Sony Ninjas wouldn't be able to track down where that came from in a matter of hours? Why set yourself up for possible legal issues to satisfy someone on a forum? Lol
 
OneBadMutha

OneBadMutha

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Nov 2, 2017
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Pryme said:
'Lock-in' is deceptive. Digital libraries don't expire, so it's not like anyone loses out if they don't buy the next gen version of their existing console straight away.
It's even worse for your theory now the industry is going crossplay. The hardcore gamers can play Call of Duty, FIFA etc on any console they pick, with their friends.

BC gives a great incentive and a pretty decent advantage, but I doubt there's any 'lock in' for tons of people.

Certainly not as profound as the likes of the iPhone lock-in in North America where iMessage keeps users in the Apple ecosystem.
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You're right. Locked-in is too strong . I do think it'll be a major factor for most people though. It can be overcome...but I think it would be overcome with price and value rather than power. That's why I think PS5 is competing mostly with Lockhart, not Series X. Series X is for the Xbox enthusiast.
 
Thorrgal

Thorrgal

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Oct 26, 2017
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Tonky said:
Specs at the reveal should give us an indication of whether it's $399 or $499, but I could see them holding off on announcing price (officially) until E3. And who knows, maybe they pull a fast one and hit us with a $389 or $489 price tag. Something no one is expecting, a true surprise to Microsoft.
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i could see a $449 price, maybe. Not likely, though.

The best thing about the reveal is that with a look at the final form we'll need all we need to know!!
 
gundamkyoukai

gundamkyoukai

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OneBadMutha said:
They lucked out in 2013 because Mattrick was infatuated with the Kinect. It's highly unlikely that either brand could win in both power and price at the same time. They have to prioritize. It's not complacent. It's about having the right strategy based on market conditions, competition and their existing customers.
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The have to prioritize but that don't mean they have do away with power for price .
Since when has Sony ever came out with a weaker system .
PS3 was even with 360 ( or more powerful depend on look at things) and it came later for certain reasons .
PS4 was stronger than XB1 .
The idea that Sony going come out with a much weaker system at same time as MS to get causal who going buy system later on make no sense.
You seem to be talking about 5G like causal going jump streaming right away or something like that .
It will take years for that to happen and when it does Sony already has there own streaming service.
 

Deleted member 1589

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Definitely gains credence that Navi was rushed into the market this year so they have something to sell on their anniversary.

 
OneBadMutha

OneBadMutha

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gundamkyoukai said:
The have to prioritize but that don't mean they have do away with power for price .
Since when has Sony ever came out with a weaker system .
PS3 was even with 360 ( or more powerful depend on look at things) and it came later for certain reasons .
PS4 was stronger than XB1 .
The idea that Sony going come out with a much weaker system at same time as MS to get causal who going buy system later on make no sense.
You seem to be talking about 5G like causal going jump streaming right away or something like that .
It will take years for that to happen and when it does Sony already has there own streaming service.
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How do you achieve price without giving up power? Next gen will be defined by I/O speeds and CPU jumps. High end GPUs will give you incremental benefits for exponential cost. Previous strategies are irrelevant. They were made by different leadership in different competitive environments.
 
Fastidioso

Fastidioso

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Hybrid Rainbow said:
Lol Come on this is common sense. If he gave out specifics that only a few certain studios knew, you don't think the Sony Ninjas wouldn't be able to track down where that came from in a matter of hours? Why set yourself up for possible legal issues to satisfy someone on a forum? Lol
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It's not common sense. It's pure paradox. Let me say the final specs are finally revealed. And the X series shows higher TF counts. Can you imagine the masses reaction? It would be a massacre for him. And you see him to say: " oh wait a second, you ignorant people, I'm talking of the combination of bandwidth, the SSD performance and other Sony secret sauce". He would be marked as a Sony fanboy forever if he won't talked straightly of raw specs on the paper.
 
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thuway

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Chamber said:
You're likely sacrificing more than TFLOPS to hit $399. RAM and cooling/noise are going to take hits there for sure. The difference in multiplatform titles v. Series X would absolutely be noticeable which doesn't jive with any of the real rumors we have.
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It all depends on what you prescribe to.

1. We have rumours from credible journalists that claim PS5 is more powerful, but slightly so. In this case we could see 12.5 to 13.3 TF.


2. We have rumours from Komachi and RedGamingTech - that give an idea on clock speed but aren't necessary clear on CU count. This is the basis for numbers as low as 8TF or as high as 10.7 TF.


3. We have others who are hell bent
on an Xbox power advantage. Apparently, Cerny was trolled by Microsoft docs and is about to be embarrassed publicly because he is mass producing a 2019 design.


But in my opinion - no matter which option you choose - PS5 will be a success and best Xbox in world wide sales.
 
saintjules

saintjules

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Dec 20, 2019
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Tonky said:
Specs at the reveal should give us an indication of whether it's $399 or $499, but I could see them holding off on announcing price (officially) until E3. And who knows, maybe they pull a fast one and hit us with a $389 or $489 price tag. Something no one is expecting, a true surprise to Microsoft.
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E3 for sure will be the latest they will show the price. Just don't forget the tax if you're in the states, lol. Easily an extra $50 if you're in a place like NY.
 
OneBadMutha

OneBadMutha

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VX1 said:
Yup.$299 Lockhart would do very,very well.Much better then any fancy $499 console.
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It's definitely what the kids will be getting. Honestly if Playstation was my primary platform, I'd consider Lockhart with Game Pass as my secondary option for $200 less. You still get the full game experience outside of resolution and some visual bells and whistles.
 
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