It's just how it works.
I love that the discussion went back to a delayed PS5 as well.
In terms of memory, don't you guys think that Sony would've pushed some "magic" memory config, just like they've done with their SSD?
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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It's just how it works.
I love that the discussion went back to a delayed PS5 as well.
In terms of memory, don't you guys think that Sony would've pushed some "magic" memory config, just like they've done with their SSD?
I dont know about magic memory, but what i do know, is that sony listened to the hardcore community and MS after the first article and MSs e3, evident by the confirmation of hardware ray tracing in the second article.
Which gets me to my next point. If sony were following their competitors marketing points, why did they not say GDDR6 in the second article? No real reason not to.
Depends on what you're looking at. There are also posts that put it at 12+ or 13ish. It's a speculation thread. At any given time you're likely to come in here and see wildly differing guesses. I don't think we've gotten any insider info in a bit so you're probably already caught up with what we know (or think in some cases). In the future though there will probably be threadmarks if something substantial happens.
The clamshell setup can still be a regular 8 chip setup in the final product, that's pretty flexible.
I'll actually argue that the rumored 8GB HBM2 + 16GB of DDR4 setup is worse than a straightforward setup of 16GB of GDDR6. And the 16GB HBM2 setup? That's just daydreaming. The APU was finalized in 2018, back then 16GB of HBM2 was 300$+ just for the stack itself. Even if Sony would have expected the price to go down, a single force majeure act like a flood or a fire in Asia( just like what MS had to go through in 2013) would have made the PS5 a financial catastrophe that would have cost them billions just on memory cost. Mark Cerny is a smart guy, he likes things simple and straightforward, he wouldn't have gambled billions just in order to save 12W.
They haven't said hardware RT for 5 months either, so who knows :)
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They said nothing about GPU either except that it has HW RT. Only thing we got from them is 8C/16T 7nm Zen2 class CPU and super fast (whatever that means) SSD.
That is exactly what i mean.
They realized the hardcore community were confused about the ray tracing, and also wanted to not stay behind on the messaging for the RT compared to MS, so why are they not doing the same for the memory?
Why are people so worked up when others put the PS5 above XSX when we've been hearing for the past 6 months that PS5 is slightly more powerful? It just blows my mind that people can't accept that. FFS if what Matt and Kleegamefan have been saying is true, then the difference will be meaningless, it doesn't matter for shit, just pick the console you like.
They can build in those things for the last gen versions. If anything, Halo Infinite on Series X versus Infinite on the previous consoles could be a fantastic example of the advantages of the newer systems. The warthog on the Series X can likely drive through the world at a much faster speed due to the SSD advantages. Would love for the Chief's visor to have a badass zoom mode where you can see much further into the world. Maybe on Series X you can see further because more of the active world is fully loaded in.
Yeah, but the RT thing gave them bad PR - it made it seems like MS had better hardware so they had to clear things up. Memory-wise? They can hold their cards close to their chest as long as they like.
I think i said this before, and I'll say it again. I don't believe Microsoft has given the full performance for their GPU. I think what Phil said about it being 2 times Xbox One X was him giving the floor for where Series X will be. I think it will end up higher than that when all is said and done. I think it's a 13 or 14TF console. I expect the PS5 to be in that range also.
Has Matt said anything as of late?
I know I for one didn't expect Hardware RT in the PS5 because Matt said Sony delayed their launch to 2020, and as we all know, there simply isn't any 2019 Hardware RT in Navi.
Is there a second GPU in the power brick? Are we at this point again yet?
MS have no reason to downplay the performance of the XSX (quite the opposite). They have no reason to hide performance or lie about it.
12TF is a beast. Everyone should be happy with that. We've had 7x400 pages of people pushing 8TF as what we should be expecting, and often GCN flops at that. To get 12TF RDNA with RT paired with a >3GHz 8C/16T Zen 2 and >2GB/sec SSD? Well we're in the best timeline.
XSX is vastly better than what the "realists" in this thread have been predicting for thousands of pages. It's all good, no need for secret DGPUs or conspiracy theories about it actually being a 14TF console.
There's always a reason though. :) We'll know soon enough.
Yeah, that's what my thinking based on mostly nothing goes; simplicity first.
User warned: console warring
Probably because some Xbox only fans have never been able to except that Sony has had greater success in the console buisnes or even better performing hardware at times, to varying degrees of course. It stems right back to the original Xbox days. Some just hate PlayStation even if they won't specifically say that and they get bent out of shape because they can't understand why their choice isn't the leader or the most successful.
That's why you see all this 14 tf and secret sauce nonsense, happens all the time.
Life would be simpler if they just bought both like most of us will 😀 problem solved.
RT got people talking about HW or SW - software being a clearly worse solution and really just box ticking as you can do it in software now. So they wanted to clear things up to confirm it was HW (ie 'good' RT)
they've not spoken about ram at all therefore nothing to clarify. They're presumably just not ready to talk about that at this phase
I wanted to share that again, how Cerny addresses the benefits of simplicity of a memory setup for PS4. I doubt they will change that attitude for PS5.
This is not more difficult, with HBCC the memory is seen as unified and the controller makes the job. Some first-party teams would probably want to control it manually and maybe Sony will let it as an option. This is not a separate memory setup, no need to copy data between the two pools of RAM.
User Banned (3 Days): Hostility, Antagonizing another user.
You really need to take that fanboy bullshit about secret gpu in the power brick and whatever other stupid, non-creative shit that tiny brain of yours can come up with and save it for the youtube pages I'm sure you must shit all over on your free time.
The Series X's GPU is supposed to, or expected to have a lot of Compute Units. It's supposed to be very conservatively clocked according to rumors. We've seen the motherfucking design of the thing. Did you see it? I saw it, so did others. It kinda looks like something where you would expect they can push the limits of power draw and clock speed, but signs based on rumors suggest they may not be doing so? You saw Phil Spencer quite literally promote and retweet an article that implies outright that Microsoft made a design with the explicit intention of not being tied down by traditional console restraints. An article that in no uncertain terms implies a very high power draw for the console.
The head of xbox in so many words endorsed it.
To this point while Microsoft has made statements about math that we are able to use to extrapolate numbers, there must still be a reason that they still aren't yet coming out and just saying what that number is. It screams strategy, like they've left themselves room for an overclock. You know, the same kind of late overclock they made before the launch of the Xbox One. Why with a more power efficient, more highly clockable architecture on a far more advanced node would they again not consider doing so again?
To be quite honest, you didn't even deserve such a logical answer because you're quite frankly a fucking troll and I shouldn't have even bothered to waste my time. So I'll just exercise the ignore option.
It's really hard to argue with this logic, DrKeo. I myself have banged on about lead times and how long ago these chips would have been locked down, taped out or finalized to no avail. Even Albert Penello explained before the process (and RAM fire) and how early some major things are decided. People still seem to think major changes or upgrades can happy today even though the production lines for these consoles will be set-up in late Spring most likely.
I get why it would be exciting for custom HBM as it would be something new but then again maybe Sony have GDDR6 that they have "tweaked" to work better with their SSD solution? In any case these consoles have long been final bar tiny tweaks.
I'm inclined to agree. The form factor is clearly designed with thermals and performance first in mind. Bigger silicone and higher CU count gives them flexibility with how much TDP they can manage.
That being said 12+ TF is absolutely insane, I'm elated for tthese consoles already.
I never said this is a last moment change. If it is HBM2, they need to decide this long time in advance. The nosedive can only comes from big order something change on the HBM market, the price fall by 16 in 3 years. This is insane.
I would be perfectly happy with 12TF because, quite honestly, it's roughly right around the sweet spot I wished for months ago before I knew what we may have. But a part of me also doesn't believe that Microsoft has entirely given up every secret just yet and has actually left some surprises about their system and design still.
I mean people are speculating on a speculation thread, because the PS5 is the only SKU left to be speculated about ;)
So regarding RAM, we either gonna get the same as the Series X (probably), or better (maybe). Noone is arguing that the PS5 is getting less RAM than 16 GDDR6.
Regarding the SSD, same situation. Looks like the X got a solid speed 2GB, but the PS5 can only go up from there (probably), or be the same (less likely). Noone is expecting it to go slower.
And that brings that to the TF, the main point of contention, because is the only piece of the puzzle left in which could go either way; more, less, the same.
One camp will downplay the possible improvements on the SSD and the RAM, while advocating for a $399 price point that would make sense to fit the 36CU narrative, while the other would like to dream big (because why not) and think Cerny can really pull it of on all 3 camps.i.e, 5GB SSD, 16GB GDDR6 +4GB DDR4/or the HBM2 wet dream, and at least 52CU, which paired with the special cooling patent and some wishful thinking, gets them to 13TF crazy territory.
That's why the discussion is getting a bit toxic lately, because it's really narrow and focused, and not much to base it on other than people's wishes
My prediction, so I'm on the record:
I've always been an advocate of the $399 price point for the PS5. I think that makes the most sense, and also fits Jim Ryan narrative regarding "fastest transition ever". That would mean 36-40CU, and around 10TF. Having said that, all points to that not being the case i.e. everyone saying they are really close. So even if I wanted to be right regarding the price, and I think it would be better for faster, mass adoption, I think we'll get a $499 SKU and around 12TF.
Regarding the SSD, I think Sony got this one. It will be faster than the Series X one.
And finally regarding RAM, it's 50/25/25 for me. Either 16GDDR6, or 16-18GB GDDR6 + some DDR4, or the crazy HBM2.
TLDR;
PS5: $499, 12TF, faster SSD, 16-18GB GDDR6
This. At some point.. let's hope we don't sink to MrXMedia levels of insanity....Those MrCTeam/MrXMedia garbage existed all the way until Phil himself had to call the "Dual GPU" thing untrue. The Series X is pure power in a console box closed system, no need for fallacies this time around.
Chris, I wasn't referring to you! I was talking generally in these sort of HW threads people chop and change specs and assume Sony and Microsoft can change specs in response to each other almost on daily basis sometimes!
I'm not ruling out HBM, either and agree that if it does have it then it was going to be used from the beginning of development (4+ years ago). If the PS5 dev kit is APU based then I would say the HBM would be on that package too?
Hey! Sony like the word 'custom' so why not?
probably not :(
I think you grossly overestimate how many people buy both consoles, and I say that as the owner of a Pro, a One S (mostly for the 4K player) and a Switch. Buying multiple consoles used to be expensive and is now even more so since they require subscriptions to be used to their fullest. Getting a PS5, 7 years of PS+, Xbox Series X, 7 years of XBLG, and maybe 7 years of PS Now and Game Pass before you buy individual games, accessories, expandable storage for both, etc. is quite pricey, especially for 2 machines that have mostly the same functionality.
Before that it was all about the esram and after the hidden gpu madness everything was about dx12. Everything kinda went quiet when ms announced the scorpio.
I can't imagine how crazy things will get with two consoles very close to each other when we couldn't even agree on a pretty clear power difference 6 years ago.
Uh...unlike 2013, it's the PS5 that seems to be rumoured to have all this secret sauce no?
Customised super SSD
24GB HBM (lol)
and much like the Xbox One in 2013, it all started because rumours of the PS5 being slightly weaker surfaced quite some time ago.
The only rumours about the Series X have been 12TF literally the entire time. Nothing has ever changed.
This is literally 2013 in reverse.
Ok about PS5 having 40 CUs. I think I understand it a bit now, but I have to ask DukeBlueBall if he really has a source stating that the PS5 only has 40 CUs. I'm not asking you to be verified, but I've seen you stating that in Beyond3D.
Because it's something that is prevalent, and I'd rather have the clear word from where it originated, or is it based on Komachi's leak that BC2 has 40 CUs.
Because it's something that is prevalent, and I'd rather have the clear word from where it originated, or is it based on Komachi's leak that BC2 has 40 CUs.
*groovy bass line* another one ban the dust 🕺🏻
Check the OP, SSD and HBM speculations aren't baseless and here for month.
This is not 2013 in reverse. The Mister X Media brand of lunatics claimed there was a hidden GPU inside the Xbox One using doctored X-rays. They went to insane lengths for years to convince everyone that the Xbox One was a firmware update away from its true potential.
Most people in this thread have accepted what Jason Schrier, Kleegamefan, and other well connected people are saying: both machines are close.
In terms of PS5, we have virtually no leaks as to the TF number except a vague statement from Klee that it performs slightly better than Xbox SX.
There's no need to come in here and try to act as if people in here are crazy. This is a SPECULATION thread.
I am really getting tired of the condescending tone and bad faith stealth insults. It isn't exclusive to you but this dialogue isn't meaningful
My personal view is that pro itself will be phased out for a 7nm ps4 slim and ps5
Aye, I dont believe in the 40 CU because it's based on the perception that Navi10Lite is Navi 10, when the person who leaked that himself said it isn't.
Also on the BC leak, when there's another explanation for that.
Also on the BC leak, when there's another explanation for that.
Oh...So Duke is Proelite at B3D. Now I get why Duke replied to me the other day that it would be controversial to state what he thought the current dev kit specs were for both consoles. That is quite a bet!
Well HMB2 would certainly explain why they could perform much better at 4K than current GPUs.
yeah, I'm not asking him to get verified though, since that comment was made at Beyond3D.... but just want to know is it legit.
HBCC is just using the system RAM as virtual memory instead of the HDD, it's nothing revolutionary. If both the GPU and CPU have access to both pools and developers have full control (and IMO that was always Sony's philosophy, give the developers low-level access), the term HBCC doesn't mean much. I mean, MS has a type of "HBCC" on Xbox with their SSD acting as virtual memory. If I have to choose between 8GB of fast RAM + 16GB of "virtual VRAM" using DDR4 or 13GB + a lot of GB of virtual memory using an SSD (which is a lot slower than DDR4), I would choose 13GB + SSD.
Yes, HBCC makes things stutter less on PC because pulling from the DDR4 is still faster than thrashing, but do you really want a console, a machine fully controlled by the developers, built around it? I doubt it.
I'm not a patent master who might know about some things I don't like some people here, but I'm guessing Sony and MS will just have some sort of paging system that uses the SSD as an extension of the GDDR6, just like on PC the DDR4 gets to "extend" itself using some HDD space. It's actually exactly the same as AMD's HBCC, only using the SSD instead of the PC's system memory.
I still think that Xbox Series X will be more powerful than PlayStation 5. Microsoft will also have the Xbox Series S, so they don't really care about the price of the Series X, as long as it is the most powerful console available.
In the other hand, Sony will have only one console, so the price of this console is more important for them. A 399$ console would be better than a $499 console and a $499 console would be better than a $599. So I think their console will be less powerful than Xbox Series X, but it will be the perfect sweet spot between price and performance.
In the other hand, Sony will have only one console, so the price of this console is more important for them. A 399$ console would be better than a $499 console and a $499 console would be better than a $599. So I think their console will be less powerful than Xbox Series X, but it will be the perfect sweet spot between price and performance.
I will always have fond memories of teamHBM, because that's why I participated in this thread in the first place :`)
...or is it regret
...or is it regret
Both PS5.
Only good choice in SEA. My laptop seems like it can do well as a Lockhart alternative anyway.
I'm buying a PS5 no matter what. I'm a PC gamer so I have access to Gamepass and all the MS exclusives and I skipped this console generation so I have games like GOW, Uncharted 4 and TLOU2 in my pile of shame :)
BC made me a launch day PS5 customer so kudos to you Sony for insisting on BC.
If I didn't have a PC, I would buy the most powerful (if there was a real difference, not 5% or something like that) console and wait for the mid-gen refresh to buy the other one.
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No, the rumor that the ps5 was stronger started at e3 with reiner, it is not the same thing.
I'd have to go for the PS5 in both cases as I just can't miss out on Sony Exclusives. I know they are very similar but those are the games I enjoy the most.
I feel launch wise we'll have
Resistance, Gran Turismo 7 and a Sony Japan title with Horizon 2 being launch window.
Sure. I'm just taken aback with his confidence about 36/40CUs.
PS5 in both cases, but it would have to be cheaper than Series X for option 2.
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