Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)

[M.Bluth]

What amuses me to no end that I know for a fact that all the people saying "How's xTF possible?! EXPLAIN IT! THe 5700XT is blah blah blah" will 100% complain about how unimpressive these consoles are once AMD puts out a 17+TF or whatever big NAVI GPU and Nvidia, well, puts out Nvidia cards.

 

[Doctor Avatar]

i have no idea why so many people here were so attached to the idea of a weaker console. it makes no sense. its like wishing you never get to sleep with a victoria secret model.

Click to shrink...

The realists have almost been as bad as the fanboys in these threads IMO. Even when they turn out to be wrong time and time again they still show no humility or change of tune. We have people still trying to push 8TF PS5, even though that almost certainly isn't going to happen.

It's frustrating to have to deal with constant, gleeful wishing for the consoles to be as weak as they possibly could be.

 

[SgtCaffran]

So Tommy Fisher from the other side is not fully verified but will be allowed to continue post leaks. Given that leaking without verification can lead to bans I will interpret this as him having sound information. He probably was not able to give enough information regarding his source for full verification:

Update:

Tommy Fisher didn't provide sufficient enough information. Now this does not mean he is discredited (so no pile ons), we just couldn't come to acceptable terms for verification.

CameFromNearFuture and XcloudTimdog have yet to provide any information.

Click to shrink...

So this proves he has given information to mods and the information looks to be good but there was simply not enough given for the actual verified label.

Hope you guys understand i had to be so freaking carefull about my source. Youre gonna understand everything Very very soon. Stay tuned for some crazy shit happening in both sony and ms reveal events.

Click to shrink...

So I have already made two posts containing some quotes by him:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...r-see-staff-post.159131/page-31#post-27421178

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...-see-staff-post.159131/page-105#post-27527606

And some new quotes:

PS5>>SeX - GPU
PS5>>>>>SeX - SSD
PS5>>>SeX - Ram size (bandwidth too?)
SeX>PS5 - CPU speed
SeX>=PS5 - Noise

Click to shrink...

Ok so how about this pastebin?

1. Latest info on ps5/xsx:
2. 
   
3. - Performance is around the same for both, with a small advantage for PS5 (which won't make much of a difference in the end, imo)
4. - ps5 ~13TF / xsx ~12TF
5. - Both use GDDR6, no, there's no HBM2 going on.
6. - Cpu clock is 3.2Ghz for PS5 and 3.4Ghz for XSX, both have a very low power standby mode
7. - Current PS5 devkits have the GPU running a little over 2Ghz, XSX @ 1.6 or 1.7Ghz
8. - PS5 is supposed to have 24GB for retail, XSX at the moment is 16GB, not sure if that's set though
9. - PS5 SSD 4.5GB/s, XSX 2GB/s, both 1TB
10. - Both use TSMC's EUV/7nm+.
11. 
    
12. More people will be reporting this in the next few weeks. Info has been out for a while now.

How accurate?

Click to shrink...

Close enough but not that much

Click to shrink...

The fact u didn't get ban makes you more trustable than a random poster . So thanks for the info.
Was the rumors about xsx being 10.6 TF spec sheet in 2018 correct ? And then they decided to up clock to 12? Have u heard that at all?

Click to shrink...

No. SeX has always been a 12tflops RDNA Console

Click to shrink...

64CUs?! hell no! and why would MS go with 64CUs at 1.4-1.5Ghz to reach 12tflops when they can achieve that with smaller amount of CUs (Subsequently Die size) and higher clock easily?

Click to shrink...

SUMMARY

Some of the most important remarks by TF:

• We will understand in Feb why Sony hasn't disclosed anything about RAM
• We will be surprised by the PS5 memory type compared to XsX
• Won't answer to question whether the PS5 uses HBM RAM
• PS5 will have larger RAM than XsX and maybe larger bandwidth
• No Re-RAM for PS5
• Playstation meeting 20th of February 2020
• PS5 and Xsx have the same VRS implementation (on the hardware level probably)
• PS5 SSD twice as fast as XsX SSD
• XsX always was 12TF, no sudden redesigns according to TF
• Mentions PS5 SSD and cooling patents

Basically the only thing we still know very little of is the RAM for the PS5!

PS5
CPU: AMD Zen 2 - 8 cores @ 3.4 GHz
GPU: AMD Navi RDNA 2.0 - 52 CU @ 2.0Ghz - 13.3 TF
Process: 7nm+/7nm EUV
RAM: 24 GB (HBM is still on the table but no clear indication on the actual set-up, just a lot of mystery)
SSD: custom controller - 4/5 GB/s

XsX
CPU: AMD Zen 2 - 8 cores @ 3.6 GHz
GPU: AMD Navi RDNA 2.0 - 52 CU @ 1.82Ghz - 12.1 TF
Process: 7nm+/7nm EUV
RAM: 16 GB GDDR6
SSD: NVMe - 2GB/s

Kleegamefan any comments? ;)

 

[senjutsusage]

If the title for this thread isn't at some point "I am the tera that flops in the night." I will be disappointed with everybody.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

If the title for this thread isn't at some point "I am the tera that flops in the night." I will be disappointed with everybody.

Click to shrink...

that's good, but for our sanity's sake, I hope this thread is the last.

Hope that happens if somehow things get so dire we end up in OT9 though

 

[big_z]

So Tommy Fisher from the other side is not fully verified but will be allowed to continue post leaks. Given that leaking without verification can lead to bans I will interpret this as him having sound information. He probably was not able to give enough information regarding his source for full verification:

Click to shrink...

Please don't post neogaf garbage. Pretty much no one in the industry uses the site after the fallout and it's banned as a source for this thread and in general for a reason.

 

[modiz]

that's good, but for our sanity's sake, I hope this thread is the last.

Hope that happens if somehow things get so dire we end up in OT9 though

Click to shrink...

going by the pace of the thread now, i am expecting it to reach OT9 before the playstation meeting, and to be honest this thread will probably be active until E3, perhaps even further. but i do expect that once we learn of the full specs it will blow up for a few days and then slow down massively.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

going by the pace of the thread now, i am expecting it to reach OT9 before the playstation meeting, and to be honest this thread will probably be active until E3, perhaps even further. but i do expect that once we learn of the full specs it will blow up for a few days and then slow down massively.

Click to shrink...

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Man can't wait for the PS Meeting teaser and people trying to put the puzzles together for the look of the HW.

 

[Doctor Avatar]

SUMMARY

Some of the most important remarks by TF:

• We will understand in Feb why Sony hasn't disclosed anything about RAM
• We will be surprised by the PS5 memory type compared to XsX
• Won't answer to question whether the PS5 uses HBM RAM
• PS5 will have larger RAM than XsX and maybe larger bandwidth
• No Re-RAM for PS5
• Playstation meeting 20th of February 2020
• PS5 and Xsx have the same VRS implementation (on the hardware level probably)
• PS5 SSD twice as fast as XsX SSD
• XsX always was 12TF, no sudden redesigns according to TF
• Mentions PS5 SSD and cooling patent

Click to shrink...

If this stuff is true it adds up with a lot of the rumours.

Personally I think between this and the new $120 prices for 16GB there is a real chance the PS5 will be 16GB HBM and 8GB DDR4. Or at least 8GB HMB and 16GB DDR4. GDDR6 ~$10/GB so the 16GB in XSX is $160. $120 for 16GB of HBM plus $40 for 8GB of DDR4 plus packaging should cost about the same.

Also why would Sony have such in depth patents for cooling and SSD solutions if they weren't going to use them? These aren't pie in the sky patents, they look ready for prime time. Note how the dev kit patent turned out to be completely true, and it looks like the dual shock 5 patent is also true.

12TF being the target all along for XSX also makes sense. We were only hearing all this 8-10TF crap from "realists" on this site, no leaks suggested as much.

I suspect that XSX and PS5 are using essentially identical GPUs and CPUs but with minor changes in clocks. XSX has slightly faster CPU, PS5 has slightly faster GPU.

Get hyped boys and girls, the next gen is gonna be wild. 12TF is the standard!!!!!

 

[Xeontech]

This is where I'm at:

PS5
CPU: Zen 2 @ 3 GHz
GPU: Navi RDNA 2.0 13.3tf (52 CU @ 2Ghz)
RAM: 16 GB HBM - 8GB DDR4
SSD: custom - 5GB/s

SeX
CPU: Zen 2 @ 3.2GHz
GPU: Navi RDNA 2.0 12tf (52 CU @ 1.8Ghz)
RAM: 16 GB GDDR6 - 8GB DDR4
SSD: NVMe - 2GB/s

MS can probably push the gpu clock to match Sony.

There is also the chance they are both using 56cu gpu with slightly lower clocks. This gets us closer to a 14tf performance.

Ed: revised RAM solution

 

[modiz]

If this stuff is true it adds up with a lot of the rumours.

Personally I think between this and the new $120 prices for 16GB there is a real chance the PS5 will be 16GB HBM and 8GB DDR4. Or at least 8GB HMB and 16GB DDR4. GDDR6 ~$10/GB so the 16GB in XSX is $160. $120 for 16GB of HBM plus $40 for 8GB of DDR4 plus packaging should cost about the same.

Also why would Sony have such in depth patents for cooling and SSD solutions if they weren't going to use them? These aren't pie in the sky patents, they look ready for prime time. Note how the dev kit patent turned out to be completely true, and it looks like the dual shock 5 patent is also true.

12TF being the target all along for XSX also makes sense. We were only hearing all this 8-10TF crap from "realists" on this site, no leaks suggested as much.

I suspect that XSX and PS5 are using essentially identical GPUs and CPUs but with minor changes in clocks.

Get hyped boys and girls, the next gen is gonna be wild. 12TF is the standard!!!!!

Click to shrink...

honestly though, if the Series X is already setting the memory level as 16GB GDDR6, does sony really need an additional 8GB of DDR4 over 16GB of HBM2E? feels to me like they might as well just use 16GB of HBM2E without an additional 8GB DDR4 to save costs plus a bit of power to use on other components.

 

[Midas]

I've said it before and will say it again, I can't wait for the reveals. This series of threads is going back and forth like crazy. Everyone's anxious about something. :lol

 

[Doctor Avatar]

This is where I'm at:

PS5
CPU: Zen 2 @ 3 GHz
GPU: Navi RDNA 2.0 13.3tf (52 CU @ 2Ghz)
RAM: 24 GB HBM
SSD: custom - 5GB/s

SeX
CPU: Zen 2 @ 3.2GHz
GPU: Navi RDNA 2.0 12tf (52 CU @ 1.8Ghz)
RAM: 24 GB GDDR6
SSD: NVMe - 2GB/s

MS can probably push the gpu clock to match Sony.

There is also the chance they are both using 56cu gpu with slightly lower clocks. This gets us closer to a 14tf performance.

Click to shrink...

I really don't think we're seeing 24GB of HBM, if we do get HBM in the PS5 I am certain there will be DDR4 added into the mix to make up the volume. Likely 16GB HBM and 8GB DDR4. Cerny even talked about the issues with a single memory pool tanking bandwidth when the CPU and GPU were both using it, having split pools that act as one is the best of both worlds and Sony already toyed around with split pools to a small degree with the Pro.

I think it's 16GB HMB and 8GB DDR4 - which may well cost less than using GDDR6 but has both power and performance advantage. It's just a "thinking outside the box" solution.

 

[Deleted member 20297]

So Tommy Fisher from the other side is not fully verified but will be allowed to continue post leaks. Given that leaking without verification can lead to bans I will interpret this as him having sound information. He probably was not able to give enough information regarding his source for full verification:



So this proves he has given information to mods and the information looks to be good but there was simply not enough given for the actual verified label.



So I have already made two posts containing some quotes by him:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...r-see-staff-post.159131/page-31#post-27421178

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...-see-staff-post.159131/page-105#post-27527606

And some new quotes:









SUMMARY

Some of the most important remarks by TF:

• We will understand in Feb why Sony hasn't disclosed anything about RAM
• We will be surprised by the PS5 memory type compared to XsX
• Won't answer to question whether the PS5 uses HBM RAM
• PS5 will have larger RAM than XsX and maybe larger bandwidth
• No Re-RAM for PS5
• Playstation meeting 20th of February 2020
• PS5 and Xsx have the same VRS implementation (on the hardware level probably)
• PS5 SSD twice as fast as XsX SSD
• XsX always was 12TF, no sudden redesigns according to TF
• Mentions PS5 SSD and cooling patents

Basically the only thing we still know very little of is the RAM for the PS5!

PS5
CPU: AMD Zen 2 - 8 cores @ 3.4 GHz
GPU: AMD Navi RDNA 2.0 - 52 CU @ 2.0Ghz - 13.3 TF
Process: 7nm+/7nm EUV
RAM: 24 GB (HBM is still on the table but no clear indication on the actual set-up, just a lot of mystery)
SSD: custom controller - 4/5 GB/s

XsX
CPU: AMD Zen 2 - 8 cores @ 3.6 GHz
GPU: AMD Navi RDNA 2.0 - 52 CU @ 1.82Ghz - 12.1 TF
Process: 7nm+/7nm EUV
RAM: 16 GB GDDR6
SSD: NVMe - 2GB/s

Kleegamefan any comments? ;)

Click to shrink...

I don't see them being at the same price then.

 

[BitsandBytes]

I wonder if a semi-custom or even fully custom RAM solution could be used by Sony that then saves them a significant amount on the BOM?

In any case the RAM is almost certainly the secret sauce for PS5.

 

[MrKlaw]

Identical (or close enough to make no difference) but ps5 having 50% more ram and 2x faster SSD (and presumably memory bandwidth to take advantage of that) could make for some interesting comparisons

 

[•79•]

Why hasn't this Fisher fella set himself up here then. The application process for both forums is similar enough or do they now let any old gmail in?

 

[Doctor Avatar]

honestly though, if the Series X is already setting the memory level as 16GB GDDR6, does sony really need an additional 8GB of DDR4 over 16GB of HBM2E? feels to me like they might as well just use 16GB of HBM2E without an additional 8GB DDR4 to save costs plus a bit of power to use on other components.

Click to shrink...

If XSX is setting the GPU level at 12TF why would Sony need to add additional TFs either?

I don't think Sony are basing their plans around what MS are doing, they're simply trying to make the best box they can, and if 16GB of HBM is $120 then they can get 24GB RAM with better bandwidth and in a way that allows CPU and GPU to better access that bandwidth for roughly the same price as 16GB of GDDR6 ($160).

This could all be nonsense of course. But the mystery of the RAM solution, the apparent cheapness of HBM relative to what we thought plus that TF stuff makes HBM a possibility. MS is spending $160 on GDDR6 at least for XSX, more if they go higher than 16GB. For that price Sony can put 16GB HBM and 8GB DDR4 in, and if they decide that is good for their console they will regardless of what MS are doing.

 

[Saberus]

|OT9| TF is going on?

Click to shrink...

|OT9| W _TF is going on?

 

[Saint-14]

What does more memory do for games? And would there be a visible advantage if one had +4 GB over the other?

 

[modiz]

If XSX is setting the GPU level at 12TF why would Sony need to add additional TFs either?

I don't think Sony are basing their plans around what MS are doing, they're simply trying to make the best box they can, and if 16GB of HBM is $120 then they can get 24GB RAM with better bandwidth and in a way that allows CPU and GPU to better access that bandwidth for roughly the same price as 16GB of GDDR6 ($160).

This could all be nonsense of course. But the mystery of the RAM solution, the apparent cheapness of HBM relative to what we thought plus that TF stuff makes HBM a possibility. MS is spending $160 on GDDR6 at least for XSX, more if they go higher than 16GB. For that price Sony can put 16GB HBM and 8GB DDR4 in, and if they decide that is good for their console they will regardless of what MS are doing.

Click to shrink...

i meant more in the way of, devs are probably fine with 16GB of fast memory when you add in the SSD
anyway i am pretty sure your $160 for 16GB GDDR6 is wrong, you are basing it off that old chart right? it was for a lower volume purchase and some time has passed so i am sure the prices are lower now, i'd guess that 16GB GDDR6 is somewhere around $100 (also using 2GB chips is cheaper than 2 chips of 1GB iirc), so using 16GB HBM2 will be more expensive.

 

[DukeBlueBall]

|OT9| TF is going on?

Click to shrink...

|OT9l TF is going into your preferred console.

 

[Deleted member 19767]

I don't see them being at the same price then.

Click to shrink...

Me either if the specs are similar to that. Perhaps Sony think they can go out with a more expensive console by $50-100 and win. They may be right depending on how it's marketed, but they'll need to be careful not to pull another PS3 moment.

 

[Xeontech]

I really don't think we're seeing 24GB of HBM, if we do get HBM in the PS5 I am certain there will be DDR4 added into the mix to make up the volume. Likely 16GB HBM and 8GB DDR4. Cerny even talked about the issues with a single memory pool tanking bandwidth when the CPU and GPU were both using it, having split pools that act as one is the best of both worlds and Sony already toyed around with split pools to a small degree with the Pro.

I think it's 16GB HMB and 8GB DDR4 - which may well cost less than using GDDR6 but has both power and performance advantage. It's just a "thinking outside the box" solution.

Click to shrink...

I'd be fine with 16 and 8.

I just don't think 16 alone will cut it for either box.

 

[SharpX68K]

Another thought on PS5 RAM, 16 GB HBM2 and 8 GB of GDDR5/6, making BC with PS4 games easier. The CPU would be getting most of the bandwidth that GDDR5/6 provides over a 256-bit bus, with all the graphics rendering done using the high bandwidth RAM.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

I'm going on a limb and speculate that PS5's secret sauce is the GPU.

 

[modiz]

Another thought on PS5 RAM, 16 GB HBM2 and 8 GB of GDDR5/6, making BC with PS4 games easier. The CPU would be getting most of the bandwidth that GDDR5/6 provides over a 256-bit bus, with all the graphics rendering done using the high bandwidth RAM.

Click to shrink...

the CPU doesnt need nearly that much bandwidth.

 

[Deleted member 20297]

Another thought on PS5 RAM, 16 GB HBM2 and 8 GB of GDDR5/6, making BC with PS4 games easier. The CPU would be getting most of the bandwidth that GDDR5/6 provides over a 256-bit bus, with all the graphics rendering done using the high bandwidth RAM.

Click to shrink...

I don't see that being a reason or a necessity. The new bus will most likely be better than onion and garlic buses anyway.

 

[klik]

8 core ryzen
24gb gddr6
4.5/s SSD
13.3 TF rdna gpu


Sounds like a wet dream. Im lowering my expectation to 16gb gddr6 and 8-10tf gpu at most,i think thats most realistic
Those specs above sound like 599$ which i think we won't get but on othee hand if its 499$ they're gonna have 200+ loss per console. Can they afford that?

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Also here's another speculation

Arden will have Zen2+

Komachi has wondered if it's Zen 3, but I think it's that + better cache, and things that aren't implemented in the Zen series yet.

Maybe that's why it's 350mm²

 

[Deleted member 19767]

8 core ryzen
24gb gddr6
4.5/s SSD
13.3 TF rdna gpu


Sounds like a wet dream. Im lowering my expectation to 16gb gddr6 and 8-10tf gpu at most,i think thats most realistic
Those specs above sound like 599$ which i think we won't get but on othee hand if its 499$ they're gonna have 200+ loss per console. Can they afford that?

Click to shrink...

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the marketing teams for either MS or Sony. I imagine that given how profitable gaming has become, it'd be a no brainer to eat substantial losses for the first X years/consoles. That is, if you think about the early adopters who will make up a huge chunk of the first 10+ million consoles - there is a lot of revenue to grab from subscriptions, full priced launch games, accessories, dlc etc.

Obviously it's impossible to make a call without knowing the profitability for MS/Sony. However, if it were my call - I'd take a substantial hit to build mindshare, market share, and build my user base ASAP for what is bound to be a super profitable generation for whoever wins.

 

[Deleted member 18951]

Now that everyone's slept on it, are we in agreement that a delay into 2021 for anyone is nonsense?

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Now that everyone's slept on it, are we in agreement that a delay into 2021 for anyone is nonsense?

Click to shrink...

god yes. It's only December.

 

[Desodeset]

Didn't someone said during an E3 interview that Scarlett has tech for 600 dollars and PS5 has tech for 800 dollars?

Now ZhugeEx mentions 460-520 dollars for XsX.

 

[VinFTW]

Man we need concrete info

We're approaching the "ps5 is waaaay stronger" than xsx part of the speculation now

Even tho we have multiple decent sources that they're very similar in "power"

 

[Midas]

We're approaching the "ps5 is waaaay stronger" than xsx part of the speculation now

Click to shrink...

It's the circle of life.

 

[LilScooby77]

So according to this thread the consoles are close. Supposedly. Ps5 has a ps4 worth of Gpu more, twice the ssd speed, better ram setup and 50% more ram. Why are insiders making this seem close when its far from that. Oh and I can't forget the 100 bucks cheaper part some seem to throw around lol.

 

[VinFTW]

So according to this thread the consoles are close. Supposedly. Ps5 has a ps4 worth of Gpu more, twice the ssd speed, better ram setup and 50% more ram. Why are insiders making this seem close when its far from that.

Click to shrink...

Like I said

People are running wild and the fantasizing is getting ridiculous

But alas, I don't blame em, we're faaaar away from the reveal events

 

[LilScooby77]

Like I said

People are running wild and the fantasizing is getting ridiculous

But alas, I don't blame em, we're faaaar away from the reveal events

Click to shrink...

Yeah I get that this site is 80% (minimum) ps fans who don't like Xbox, but man people cannot hide their bias in this thread.

 

[Ringten]

The application process for both forums is similar enough or do they now let any old gmail in?

Click to shrink...

Went on the website quickly, and seems like you can make an account with any generic email.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Man we need concrete info

We're approaching the "ps5 is waaaay stronger" than xsx part of the speculation now

Even tho we have multiple decent sources that they're very similar in "power"

Click to shrink...

Where have I heard that before...

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/x...ally-the-same-says-john-carmack/1100-6412473/

 

[M.Bluth]

Man we need concrete info

We're approaching the "ps5 is waaaay stronger" than xsx part of the speculation now

Even tho we have multiple decent sources that they're very similar in "power"

Click to shrink...

Could you point to those posts? Because as far as I can tell, the most I'm seeing is buying that Tommy Fisher dude's info, so ~12 vs ~13TF. That's not "ps5 is waaaay stronger".

 

[VinFTW]

Where have I heard that before...

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/x...ally-the-same-says-john-carmack/1100-6412473/

Click to shrink...

K:

So according to this thread the consoles are close. Supposedly. Ps5 has a ps4 worth of Gpu more, twice the ssd speed, better ram setup and 50% more ram. Why are insiders making this seem close when its far from that. Oh and I can't forget the 100 bucks cheaper part some seem to throw around lol.

Click to shrink...

Edit: I just feel like I'm going crazy the more I read this thread.

PS5 is supposed to be exceptionally stronger in nearly every category and be cheaper at the same time? We need to take our heads out of the clouds. These companies aren't what they used to be. No ones launching a disaster in 2020.

 

[marecki]

Yeah I get that this site is 80% (minimum) ps fans who don't like Xbox, but man people cannot hide their bias in this thread.

Click to shrink...

Keep in mind there is a group of people like myself who are fans of gaming, not of specific companies, most of us own ps and Xbox and switch and we're just super excited to see what future brings

 

[Thorrgal]

Man we need concrete info

We're approaching the "ps5 is waaaay stronger" than xsx part of the speculation now

Even tho we have multiple decent sources that they're very similar in "power"

Click to shrink...

But we know that's not true, so why are you worried about it?

It could end up being marginally stronger in 3 of the 4 key aspects, but never way stronger for the same price.

Changing topics, there's an question I'd like to ask to the experts here. There's a lot of talk of "eating the cost", and how that could also be a differenciating factor, but when I ask around to some of my friends in the business world they tell me it would be illegal to sell a console below the cost of manufacture, below the BOM if you will, at least in the EU.

They cite issues like "unfair competition" and "money laundering", and even if they don't know the particular case of the consoles, they say it's true for other goods.

Granted, maybe that doesn't apply to consoles specifically for whatever reason, mb because they are both manufactured outside the EU, and there's no EU consoles to which be unfair to, I don't know. Or maybe it does

Does anyone have a clear answer regarding this? Because if that is true we can limit how much costs the manufacturers are able to take i.e., anything above the BOM (shipping, storage, retailers cut, taxes and import duties?), or even better, assumen the price will be just slightly above the BOM (as it was the case with the PS4,iirc)

Thanks

 

[LilScooby77]

Lol

Keep in mind there is a group of people like myself who are fans of gaming, not of specific companies, most of us own ps and Xbox and switch and we're just super excited to see what future brings

Click to shrink...

Yeah I understand that as I own all the major systems too.(mostly play ps).

 

[foolishoptimist]

I'm going on a limb and speculate that PS5's secret sauce is the GPU.

Click to shrink...

Everything is secret sauce atm. We don't know shit.

 

[Jonnax]

But we know that's not true, so why are you worried about it?

It could end up being marginally stronger in 3 of the 4 key aspects, but never way stronger for the same price.

Changing topics, there's an question I'd like to ask to the experts here. There's a lot of talk of "eating the cost", and how that could also be a differenciating factor, but when I ask around to some of my friends in the business world they tell me it would be illegal to sell a console below the cost of manufacture, below the BOM if you will, at least in the EU.

They cite issues like "unfair competition" and "money laundering", and even if they don't know the particular case of the consoles, they say it's true for other goods.

Granted, maybe that doesn't apply to consoles specifically for whatever reason, mb because they are both manufactured outside the EU, and there's no EU consoles to which be unfair to, I don't know. Or maybe it does

Does anyone have a clear answer regarding this? Because if that is true we can limit how much costs the manufacturers are able to take i.e., anything above the BOM (shipping, storage, retailers cut, taxes and import duties?), or even better, assumen the price will be just slightly above the BOM (as it was the case with the PS4,iirc)

Thanks

Click to shrink...

It's complex. The issue is called Predatory pricing;

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing

But there's also the idea of a loss leader:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader

It's doubtful that Microsoft or Sony would try and bring this up against the other, since it would be terrible PR. And it's not like they're trying to lock our competitors out by pricing competitively.

 

[Thorrgal]

Yeah I get that this site is 80% (minimum) ps fans who don't like Xbox, but man people cannot hide their bias in this thread.

Click to shrink...

As opposed to posts like yours, that clearly show now bias at all?

80% (minimum!) of Era members are PS fans that don't like Xbox, you say?

Gotcha :P