Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)

[coldcrush]

without wanting to be a stick in the mud, I understand the thirst for leaks is real but people should just hold on until Sony is ready to officially detail it. Imagine being engineers creating this working for years and years to create a powerful and cost effective console while Sony works on a strategy to release it that is the most beneficial to the company and their hard work, and then people leak it on forums and derail that hard work and surprise. Sure speculate and discuss announced features but hounding people to give up info is not really cool. I appreciate the good will of kleegamefan, who's initial intent seemed to be to come here and say, guys don't worry about next gen, both consoles are great and the graphics of the titles that are coming in the next few years will be awesome with TF counts over 10. We all are excited to hear details but enjoy life and details will come and go. Wait until Christmas morning to open your presents

 

[Jerm411]

Also, I should note I have been at work a remote location in Alaska for the past couple days (got here Wed night). I am working nights right now (12hr shifts) and as such my physical exhaustion prevents me from following up on post at times.

Sorry for that and please understand.

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Damn the ninjas chased you all the way to Alaska huh....lol jk. :-)

Thanks for all you've done!

 

[Minthara]

If this is the case it could explain why Microsoft allegedly rejuvenated a cheaper Lockhart (perhaps rejuvenated isn't the right word). $499 seems to be too much for the "buy-a-console-for-your-kids-for-Christmas" crowd.

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First year console buyers generally are not the "buy-a-console-for-your-kids-for-Christmas" crowd. That group is usually year 2 or 3 buyers, which is why Lockheart makes a lot of sense, if its still a thing, for holiday year 2.

 

[bsigg]

First year console buyers generally are not the "buy-a-console-for-your-kids-for-Christmas" crowd. That group is usually year 2 or 3 buyers.

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But that lines up with pricing, not because it's a new thing.

 

[zedox]

First year console buyers generally are not the "buy-a-console-for-your-kids-for-Christmas" crowd. That group is usually year 2 or 3 buyers.

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Unless they are cheaper (like the Wii and the Switch)

 

[SilentFlyer]

Hi guys.

Seems like I missed the shit show and I am actually happy for this. I can see why some people with information don't touch this thread with a ten foot pole: few potential upsides with plenty of opportunity for downsides.


Yes, I do have specs for PS5 and XSX ( but not Lockhart.) I won't share these specs not because I'm trying to be an ass, but because it would be impossible to do so without compromising my source.

Don't ask me and don't private message me.

I had a good conversation with a mod detailing how I got my information and why.

He can verify we had this conversation if he wishes but I would ask him not to detail the contents of our conversation for obvious reasons.

Have a nice day.

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Appreciate it.
But you don't need to apologise. You do realize now why other insiders/developers with the specs aren't sharing it.
Having said that, I'm sure members here do appreciate your input and contribution.
We're thankful for that.

 

[anexanhume]

So is this the current consensus?

• Xbox - 12 TF, $499
• PS5 - 8 TF, $399

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With Klee confirming he has spec sheets for both and previously stating they're very close, this is even further from the truth.

 

[Minthara]

But that lines up with pricing, not because it's a new thing.

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Well it also used to also be because of library, but next gen it will likely be more of a pricing thing, yes. Both consoles being backward compatible and having support of the previous gen library will change things, the by how much is the question.

Unless they are cheaper (like the Wii and the Switch)

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Nintendo always seems to be an exception to the rule, so to speak, but even they were not immune to it (3DS comes to mind). The Switch and Wii also launched at a comparable price to competition who had already reduced from their launch price from what I remember too (Could be wrong, but was pretty sure the Switch launched at a comparable price to an already discounted X1/PS4 and Wii was cheaper than Ps3, obviously, and was comparable to a discounted 360). Don't quite remember how it played out in the US during 360/PS3/Wii launch years since I'm from Canada :)

Traditionally in tech, early adopters were not the "buy your kids electronics" persona. The mobile phone market is obviously different and may be comparable to what modern console launch might be like, I'll be curious to see how close (or different) the parallels turn out to be.

 

[zedox]

Well it also used to also be because of library, but next gen it will likely be more of a pricing thing, yes. Both consoles being backward compatible and having support of the previous gen library may change things.



Nintendo always seems to be an exception to the rule, so to speak, but even they were not immune to it (3DS comes to mind). The Switch and Wii also launched at a comparable price to already reduced price competition from what I remember too (Could be wrong, but was pretty sure the Switch launched at a comparable price to an already discount X1/PS4 and Wii was cheaper than Ps3, obviously, and was comparable to a discounted 360). Don't quite remember how it played out in the US during 360/PS3/Wii launch years since I'm from Canada :)

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I'm just saying that the rule is because of price...not because it's the first year of a console. Nintendo is the exception because Nintendo priced them cheaply. lol.

 

[SeanMN]

Whether PS5 is $399 or $499 (or somewhere in between), I think it'll be above 10TF.

At $399, I'd expect closer to 10-11TF. I think they'll have a much faster adoption rate, especially compared to the Series X, which in all likelihood will be $500. Sony has built amazing machines at the $399 price point, and I think they know the power this pricepoint has with consumers. A strong and quick start to the gen would be good for Sony, and before XGS really hits their stride with their new software from their expanded studio lineup. I think at (or around) this pricepoint provides PS5 with the best chance to beat PS4 sales numbers. If Sony is still focused on console growth, then I think this is the better strategy for them.

At $499 I'd expect closer to 11-12TF, more bandwidth, etc. Sony will still likely win the generation building on their already great momentum and the achievements of WWS. I think sales would be slower (at least initially) than PS4 at launch. If Sony is able to make a more capable device (than XSX), then it would be a big blow to the morale of the Series X and Xbox which has strongly touted graphics power as a selling point for the last 3 years. If Sony is looking to expand their software and services (PS Now, WWS games on PC, etc), then I think this is the better strategy for them.

One thing about these benchmarks is that they're not necessarily being run in the final environment - they might very well just be bench stress tests, for instance.

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This is my thoughts as well. AMD is likely just getting some basic info and characteristics from the chip as part of validation (likely more to do with frequencies, power, temp, etc) before they hand the part off to Sony.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Good lord we've hit "PS5 will have HBM" portion of this program?

lol

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What exactly is "good lord" worthy about speculating that PS5 has a different RAM solution?

We had different RAM solutions this gen.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

I forgot one link. Komachi mentioned that Sparkman is a GFX10 APU, meaning the gpu is probably GFX1010?

edit: well, LITE.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Also for the PS5 bros, just being Navi10Lite doesnt mean that it's based on 5700XT

Navi 10 and Navi 10LITE are identified, but as long as the GFX ID is different, they should be completely different GPUs. I think LITE does not mean that the number of CUs is small, but that Navi is thin in architectural terms.

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https://twitter.com/KOMACHI_ENSAKA/status/1119941056290668544

 

[Deleted member 4976]

So is this the current consensus?

• Xbox - 12 TF, $499
• PS5 - 8 TF, $399

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This hasn't been the consensus since Andrew Reiner bodied half the thread.

 

[Minthara]

I'm just saying that the rule is because of price...not because it's the first year of a console. Nintendo is the exception because Nintendo priced them cheaply. lol.

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I don't think it's always just because of price though. It has also been because of library and word of mouth in the past, often a combination of all three.

If it was only about price, the Ouya would have done amazing! (hyperbolic funny example I know)

Like I said, the backwards compatibility aspect of the formula is likely changing the library side of things for next-gen, and I wonder by how much.

 

[Papacheeks]

winding down, but not stopping production. Even the sub title talks about a longer roadmap.

The exec said that it will enter its final phase, which will last... 2-3 years? Or longer.

Consider that PS2 stopped production after 12 years. PS3 after 10. That's why my estimate is a decade.

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Difference being PS2 went so long because it was fairly cheap to produce even past it's fabrication threashold, and it had parts being used in PS3. So it was warranted to keep it active while they had PS2 innards in the PS3 for BC in early days. Once they did away with it fully PS2 finally stopped production. PS3 went so long because of it's late gen pickup, on top of going from PS3 tools to PS4. POWER PC to x86 was a big transition that tool time.

Now that both PS4 and PS5 are x86, they literally can have a cheaply made PS4 refresh done for first couple years using newer nodes. Way cheaper than using a node that was from 2012. I honestly see base PS4 being discontinued much sooner than PS3 was.

 

[Mezoly]

What exactly is "good lord" worthy about speculating that PS5 has a different RAM solution?

We had different RAM solutions this gen.

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If people can't speculate about stuff like RAM solutions then I don't know what's the purpose of this thread.

 

[zedox]

I don't think it's always just because of price though. It has also been because of library and word of mouth in the past, often a combination of all three.

If it was only about price, the Ouya would have done amazing! (hyperbolic funny example I know)

Like I said, the backwards compatibility aspect of the formula is likely changing the library side of things for next-gen, and I wonder by how much.

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I'll say it like this...if the PS5 or Xbox Series X was priced at $249...I'm pretty sure "normies" would be buying them as well as the hardcore. Price is always the reason why different segments of the market...enter a generation. Obviously marketing and all that matter (Ouya and ...LOL) but price is the biggest driver.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Difference being PS2 went so long because it was fairly cheap to produce even past it's fabrication threashold, and it had parts being used in PS3. So it was warranted to keep it active while they had PS2 innards in the PS3 for BC in early days. Once they did away with it fully PS2 finally stopped production. PS3 went so long because of it's late gen pickup, on top of going from PS3 tools to PS4. POWER PC to x86 was a big transition that tool time.

Now that both PS4 and PS5 are x86, they literally can have a cheaply made PS4 refresh done for first couple years using newer nodes. Way cheaper than using a node that was from 2012. I honestly see base PS4 being discontinued much sooner than PS3 was.

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maybe, if PS5 is 399, but then again PS4 is still selling very well even this late at a stage at a pretty high price compared to previous gens. Demand is still relatively high without drastic price cuts.

Also need to remember that while it wont sell much anymore in the US, 'last gen' (for this one, PS4) consoles generally still sell well in third world countries.

 

[Papacheeks]

Good lord we've hit "PS5 will have HBM" portion of this program?

lol

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What's so outlandish about HBM2E with the potential of moving over to HBM3 in future which is suppose to be even cheaper to make, power for less, lower thermals and higher speed/more bandwidth?

There's a lot of evidence that points to HBM2E being the better pick for long term gains in pricing/ power efficiency and AI capabilities which is something that HBM2+ was build for.

maybe, if PS5 is 399, but then again PS4 is still selling very well even this late at a stage at a pretty high price compared to previous gens. Demand is still relatively high without drastic price cuts.

Also need to remember that while it wont sell much anymore in the US, 'last gen' (for this one, PS4) consoles generally still sell well in third world countries.

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The big question you should be asking is, why would a CEO even make such response in 2018? Only if he knew what their plan was going forward for PS5, which would be to be again similar to PS4's launch asking price so people would adopt at a much higher rate for something that is very powerful, maybe not 12tf powerful but one that they can see the difference and see value with all their titles from PSVR/PS4 being BC compat.

 

[Outrun]

Also, I should note I have been at work a remote location in Alaska for the past couple days (got here Wed night). I am working nights right now (12hr shifts) and as such my physical exhaustion prevents me from following up on post at times.

Sorry for that and please understand.

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Kleegamefan is Solid Snake confirmed.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

What exactly is "good lord" worthy about speculating that PS5 has a different RAM solution?

We had different RAM solutions this gen.

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I can't tell if you're joking or not.

You know how expensive HBM is yeah? I'm someone who predicted YEARS ago these consoles would have SSDs in them.

I'm someone who on GAF predicted the Xbox One and PS4 would have 4–8GB of RAM YEARS in advance.

I also called a hybrid for Nintendo in 2014


So I'm not averse to "crazy" predictions.

But even I wouldn't predict HBM lol.

This thread is literally 2013 in reverse.

 

[Truth411]

Xbox > PS2
X360 < PS3
X1X > PS4 Pro

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Fixed.

 

[Eeyore]

I can't tell if you're joking or not.

You know how expensive HBM is yeah? I'm someone who predicted YEARS ago these consoles would have SSDs in them.

I'm someone who on GAF predicted the Xbox One and PS4 would have 4–8GB of RAM YEARS in advance.

I also called a hybrid for Nintendo in 2014


So I'm not averse to "crazy" predictions.

But even I wouldn't predict HBM lol.

This thread is literally 2013 in reverse.

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So your point is you rightfully predicted outlandish things so this thread shouldn't speculate on what you perceive to be outlandish things. I'm not sure I follow the logic.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

The big question you should be asking is, why would a CEO even make such response in 2018? Only if he knew what their plan was going forward for PS5, which would be to be again similar to PS4's launch asking price so people would adopt at a much higher rate for something that is very powerful, maybe not 12tf powerful but one that they can see the difference and see value with all their titles from PSVR/PS4 being BC compat.

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They made it because it's entering its final phase.

Look, let's just wait for 2021. I'm confident it will last at least 10 years but we can agree to disagree with on this. It's not really that of an important matter regarding the PS5 even if it continues :)

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

So your point is you rightfully predicted outlandish things so this thread shouldn't speculate on what you perceive to be outlandish things. I'm not sure I follow the logic.

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You don't have to get my logic.

HBM won't be in there.

 

[Deleted member 59519]

Folks Control has won IGN's game of the year. Let's hope for that to be the baseline for physics and environmental interactivity in next-gen games.

 

[modiz]

I forgot one link. Komachi mentioned that Sparkman is a GFX10 APU, meaning the gpu is probably GFX1010?

edit: well, LITE.

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GFX10 just means navi.
The numbering scheme is:
____
Lets take 1014
10- navi
1 - RDNA1
4 - navi 14.

Ariel is 100X
10 - navi
0 - LITE
Unknown which one iirc

102X
Navi LITE second gen based on RDNA2
103X
RDNA2 desktop Navi

Meanwhile, vega is referred to as GFX 9 and uses 9XX

 

[Morgan J]

I seriously don't know why you guys are arguing, we know some things for SXS, and even less for PS5. Both will be awesome!

 

[gremlinz1982]

So your point is you rightfully predicted outlandish things so this thread shouldn't speculate on what you perceive to be outlandish things. I'm not sure I follow the logic.

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Tech drops in price because of increased capacity. The more any component is used, the better the pricing, the bigger the canvas to spread costs.

Consoles are mainly made to fit a certain price point. If you have a moonshot like what Sony did with Blu Ray, it will be because there is something else they are aiming for.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

GFX10 just means navi.
The numbering scheme is:
____
Lets take 1014
10- navi
1 - RDNA1
4 - navi 14.

Ariel is 100X
10 - navi
0 - LITE
Unknown which one iirc

102X
Navi LITE second gen based on RDNA2
103X
RDNA2 desktop Navi

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Ariel is GFX1000

Literally the first of Navis

(maybe)

 

[Eeyore]

You don't have to get my logic.

HBM won't be in there.

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Maybe I should restate it, your post was illogical.

Whether or not HBM is in either console, you aren't the tone police of this thread. Please let people speculate on outlandish things, that's what this thread is about.

 

[Papacheeks]

They made it because it's entering its final phase.

Look, let's just wait for 2021. I'm confident it will last at least 10 years but we can agree to disagree with on this. It's not really that of an important matter regarding the PS5 even if it continues :)

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We shall see, but my thinking is based on their sales trajectory in this gen. They met 100+ million in less time it took PS2 which was a cheaper system, that had even more competition. I think we will see a refresh this coming year, and we may get our answer then to be honest depending on what the price is for the new super slim.

You don't have to get my logic.

HBM won't be in there.

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Why do you think HBM2E won't be a possibility for PS5? No one expected in 2013 we would see GDDR5 in a console. Especially when you see what Microsoft went with for their memory solution.

Let alone 8gb of GDDR5 which hardly any graphics cards even had back then.

And it came at $399, so I am not ruling anything out. Especially when the benefits of said memory solution aligns with what Marc Cerny, among others have been saying about what they think the future is for gaming.

AI being one of them.

 

[modiz]

Ariel is GFX1000

Literally the first of Navis

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Okay thanks on that correction. I thought its 1000 but wasnt sure.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Okay thanks on that correction. I thought its 1000 but wasnt sure.

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nah, I just found out yesterday lol

We shall see, but my thinking is based on their sales trajectory in this gen. They met 100+ million in less time it took PS2 which was a cheaper system, that had even more competition. I think we will see a refresh this coming year, and we may get our answer then to be honest depending on what the price is for the new super slim.

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Sure, think that's fine

 

[Lirion]

So is this the current consensus?

• Xbox - 12 TF, $499
• PS5 - 8 TF, $399

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Current consensus is both are 12+TF.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Hi guys.

Seems like I missed the shit show and I am actually happy for this. I can see why some people with information don't touch this thread with a ten foot pole: few potential upsides with plenty of opportunity for downsides.


Yes, I do have specs for PS5 and XSX ( but not Lockhart.) I won't share these specs not because I'm trying to be an ass, but because it would be impossible to do so without compromising my source.

Don't ask me and don't private message me.

I had a good conversation with a mod detailing how I got my information and why.

He can verify we had this conversation if he wishes but I would ask him not to detail the contents of our conversation for obvious reasons.

Have a nice day.

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Fully understandable.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You don't have to get my logic.

HBM won't be in there.

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What are you basing HBMs pricing data on? What's available to consumers in 2019?

That's not an accurate estimate for what a company could purchase in bulk throughout an entire generation

If Sony sees HBM2 as being better long term, even if it causes short term losses due to cost, they may be likely decide to go that route...especially if it guarantees their console can have better power performance

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

We shall see, but my thinking is based on their sales trajectory in this gen. They met 100+ million in less time it took PS2 which was a cheaper system, that had even more competition. I think we will see a refresh this coming year, and we may get our answer then to be honest depending on what the price is for the new super slim.



Why do you think HBM2E won't be a possibility for PS5? No one expected in 2013 we would see GDDR5 in a console. Especially when you see what Microsoft went with for their memory solution.

Let alone 8gb of GDDR5 which hardly any graphics cards even had back then.

And it came at $399, so I am not ruling anything out. Especially when the benefits of said memory solution aligns with what Marc Cerny, among others have been saying about what they think the future is for gaming.

AI being one of them.

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No worries. Have at it.

 

[AegonSnake]

Also for the PS5 bros, just being Navi10Lite doesnt mean that it's based on 5700XT

https://twitter.com/KOMACHI_ENSAKA/status/1119941056290668544

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sigh. after literally an entire year of arguing over this he finally clears this up. so aggravating.

my blood pressure has gone up 10 points arguing navi 10 = 40 CU dudes.

 

[DukeBlueBall]

I can't tell if you're joking or not.

You know how expensive HBM is yeah? I'm someone who predicted YEARS ago these consoles would have SSDs in them.

I'm someone who on GAF predicted the Xbox One and PS4 would have 4–8GB of RAM YEARS in advance.

I also called a hybrid for Nintendo in 2014


So I'm not averse to "crazy" predictions.

But even I wouldn't predict HBM lol.

This thread is literally 2013 in reverse.

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Fix yo link my dude.

As for bolded, for where we're going, you don't need eyes.

 

[modiz]

nah, I just found out yesterday lol

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Makes me wonder what are the implications of being the first navi.

1) It hints that rumors of "navi being built for sony" might have been correct.
2) now that is speculation, but based on all the rumors that PS5's GPU is on the same level as Series X, plus usage of stuff like VRS that arent in RDNA1, maybe it was a primitive version of the PS5 GPU and they are using a RDNA2 version of ariel now (1020?), hence also "low speed devlit" back in april?

 

[Doctor Avatar]

Hey guys what's going on in the threa...

Oh... This thread is a complete poop show. I'm not a fan of splitting the threads but it appears quite a few users simply cannot remain civil. I think it might be something that needs to be done.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

We shall see, but my thinking is based on their sales trajectory in this gen. They met 100+ million in less time it took PS2 which was a cheaper system, that had even more competition. I think we will see a refresh this coming year, and we may get our answer then to be honest depending on what the price is for the new super slim.



Why do you think HBM2E won't be a possibility for PS5? No one expected in 2013 we would see GDDR5 in a console. Especially when you see what Microsoft went with for their memory solution.

Let alone 8gb of GDDR5 which hardly any graphics cards even had back then.

And it came at $399, so I am not ruling anything out. Especially when the benefits of said memory solution aligns with what Marc Cerny, among others have been saying about what they think the future is for gaming.

AI being one of them.

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Out of curiosity how is HBM better for AI?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I can't tell if you're joking or not.

You know how expensive HBM is yeah? I'm someone who predicted YEARS ago these consoles would have SSDs in them.

I'm someone who on GAF predicted the Xbox One and PS4 would have 4–8GB of RAM YEARS in advance.

I also called a hybrid for Nintendo in 2014


So I'm not averse to "crazy" predictions.

But even I wouldn't predict HBM lol.

This thread is literally 2013 in reverse.

Click to shrink...

People thinking HBM now again since we find out the price lower.
Few pages back you see 16GB for $120 and Sony might pay less and think about cost saving in the future .

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Makes me wonder what are the implications of being the first navi.

1) It hints that rumors of "navi being built for sony" might have been correct.
2) now that is speculation, but based on all the rumors that PS5's GPU is on the same level as Series X, plus usage of stuff like VRS that arent in RDNA1, maybe it was a primitive version of the PS5 GPU and they are using a RDNA2 version of ariel now (1020?), hence also "low speed devlit" back in april?

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Yeah, I'm speculating something like that.

Also it gives some credence to the rumor that 2/3 of AMD GPU staff/engineers was made to work with Sony for its GPU. That was back in 2017?

 

[gremlinz1982]

Why do you think HBM2E won't be a possibility for PS5? No one expected in 2013 we would see GDDR5 in a console. Especially when you see what Microsoft went with for their memory solution.

Let alone 8gb of GDDR5 which hardly any graphics cards even had back then.

And it came at $399, so I am not ruling anything out. Especially when the benefits of said memory solution aligns with what Marc Cerny, among others have been saying about what they think the future is for gaming.

AI being one of them.

Click to shrink...

Microsoft early on decided that they needed 8GB RAM. The only option that existed when they made that decision was what they went with. Sony took GDDR5 and were pressured by devs to push it up, something made possible by the fact that densities doubled. Had that not been the case, they would have been utterly screwed.

 

[modiz]

I can't tell if you're joking or not.

You know how expensive HBM is yeah? I'm someone who predicted YEARS ago these consoles would have SSDs in them.

I'm someone who on GAF predicted the Xbox One and PS4 would have 4–8GB of RAM YEARS in advance.

I also called a hybrid for Nintendo in 2014


So I'm not averse to "crazy" predictions.

But even I wouldn't predict HBM lol.

This thread is literally 2013 in reverse.

Click to shrink...

HBM seems to be cheaper than expected, $120 for 16GB on low volume, on a console it might be cheaper + further costs savings in the future

 

[Papacheeks]

You don't have to get my logic.

HBM won't be in there.

Click to shrink...

Out of curiosity how is HBM better for AI?

Click to shrink...

Higher or equal bandwidth than GDDR6 currently but at much lower power consumption while TOPS/W. AI needs bandwidth more than anything. And being able to do Stacks helps with that. Why do you think the over priced Mac pro can have a config of dual VEGA 2'S? 16GB of HBM2 for rendering or can be setup for AI learning.

https://www.eeweb.com/profile/schar...-memory-ready-for-ai-primetime-hbm2e-vs-gddr6

with HBM2E you get double the performance per watt compared to GDDR6.

And recently with Sk Hynix now producing it with Samsung/AMD if Sony made a big deal for a long term production with the possibility of moving over to HBM3 which will have even more cost saving, lower power consumption and higher bandwidth.

 

[AegonSnake]

GFX10 just means navi.
The numbering scheme is:
____
Lets take 1014
10- navi
1 - RDNA1
4 - navi 14.

Ariel is 100X
10 - navi
0 - LITE
Unknown which one iirc

102X
Navi LITE second gen based on RDNA2
103X
RDNA2 desktop Navi

Meanwhile, vega is referred to as GFX 9 and uses 9XX

Click to shrink...

I think its a lot more simpler to just look at what happened with the Navi 10, 12 and 14 designations.

WCCFTECH reported that AMD would launch with a Navi 12 40 CU GPU. And that the PS5 will be bigger than that. we know Navi 14 was the 5500. Which gets us

24 CU - Navi 14
40 CU - Navi 12
56 CU - Navi 10


But then something happened and AMD changed Navi 12 to Navi 10 and forgot to release Navi 12 altogether. its obvious to me that the bigger 56-60 CU Navi simply wasnt ready and AMD had to get a somewhat competitive card out there in 2019. They changed it to Navi 10 internally and launched it to compete with 2070. They had increase the clocks so high that it completely screwed up its TDP but they had a card out there to compete with the 2070.

The early gonzalo leaks, the ariel leaks, all pointed to Sony going with Navi 10 LITE which was originally based on the bigger Navi. Not THE biggest navi, just whatever is bigger than the 5700xt. Which wouldve been the 5800 or the x800 series which is what both Sony and MS have traditionally gone with for the wide and slow GPUs.

 

[Deleted member 5604]

I'm not averse to "crazy" predictions.

But even I wouldn't predict HBM lol.

Click to shrink...

I'd say Xbox 5, and PS5 only having a 50/50 chance for PS4 BC are pretty up there.