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Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
If they are going with just 16GB's of GDDR6, i really doubt they are going to have some fancy compression tech for the SSD, the talk of the SSD also having a pool of super fast RAM for cache can be thrown out the window too, at least for Microsoft. Who knows about Sony.

Out of interest, why do you think RAM amount has anything to do with whether MS will include fixed function hardware for decompression on the SSD?

Klee i have to ask if you think stadia will be able to keep up with next gen from what we seeing going on with current gen game gfx setting
Next gen sound amazing and it look like Stadia really have there work cut out for them .

It's a good question!


You're living the dream, Colbert.

You are leaving out Watch Dogs: Legion, Rainbow Six Quarantine and Gods & Monsters, which Ubi already confirmed will be cross-gen titles. I would also expect EA to be there with the standard lineup of Madden/NHL/Fifa/etc.

Edit: Oh, and Avengers.

I'm sorry, man, but the "Oh, and Avengers" bit absolutely slew me.... lmao.

It's both hilarious and depressing that almost no-one cares about that game.
 

Kibbles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,418
It's exciting to have powerful consoles again. The last launch really wasn't that exciting as the consoles were using underpowered and dated hardware even for the time.
 

SloMoBackSlap

Member
Feb 15, 2018
125
So in light of the recent Scarlett hardware projections, how do you guys think they are supposed to create a console that is better than a 2080 ti, which cost $1,100 minimum, and create an affordable system that also can deal with proper cooling and power consumption in a smaller form factor than a mid tower case?

I'm not ruling it out, but I am skeptical and feel like they'd be geniuses to accomplish it.
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
Yes the grass is ass in Madden too. My biggest issue with Madden is animations. Some are still very stiff and janky, it's jarring because the graphics themselves are pretty decent.
My main problem is IA. Too many times we still have some juncky thing. The main one is the inability for players to handle situation where others players are on the ground.
If there is one type of games that need motion matching, it is sports game.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
So in light of the recent Scarlett hardware projections, how do you guys think they are supposed to create a console that is better than a 2080 ti, which cost $1,100 minimum, and create an affordable system that also can deal with proper cooling and power consumption in a smaller form factor than a mid tower case?

I'm not ruling it out, but I am skeptical and feel like they'd be geniuses to accomplish it.
Who said anything about a rtx 2080 ti.

We are discussing a 2080 power level console.
 

androvsky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,503
Like I used to joke, the raytracing cores are actually going to be Cell. And then only MS uses it for PS3 BC at the rate things have been going.

p.s. still joking

p.p.s still bitter about Sony and journalists' stance on BC
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,831
Okay I am sorry for doing this but i am gonna possibly mess up this thread again:



brad sams is saying that while he cant confirm the TFlops in the new rumor he says he heard anancodna is targeting 2x the GPU performance of x1x, the crucial point is twice the performance, not twice the TFlops. 12TF RDNA would be closer to 2.6x the performance, weird that he would hear only 2x considering its much more.

and then we have the windows central article:
According to several sources familiar with Microsoft's plans, Anaconda is targeting around 12 teraflops (TF) of computing power, compared to the Xbox One X's 6TF, and the Xbox One S's 1.4.
They are specifically comparing it to the xbox one x 6TF and the X1S 1.4TF, GCN TFs, rather than presenting the number by itself. Its 12TF when compared to X1X 6TF.

Could the 12TF figure be when compared to X1X in GCN rather than RDNA flops? with the RDNA figure possibly being closer to 10TF?
 

ppn7

Member
May 4, 2019
740
With all that power on PS5, i wonder how will be psvr 2 experience !
Still have not tested any VR headsets
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,501
After all the shit MS took about being weaker at launch and the lengths they then went to to ensure they later had "the most powerful console ever," it seems inconceivable that they would again launch with the weaker box. But that's apparently what will happen? I haven't been keeping up with this stuff closely.

Even if the performance difference is imperceivable, simply all the negative PR about beaing weaker than PS5 will be an anchor. I would've thought Phil was going to make it absolute priority #1 to have that bragging right, no matter how much it truly matters.

You would imagine that he'll be asked in every interview he does "You made such a big deal just months ago about being the most powerful but have now released a weaker machine than you competition. Why is that?"
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,038
PS5 and Anaconda are not going to be good. They are going to be amazing!

We are at each other's throats, console-warring over fantastic console vs. fantastic console.

Whether you are talking about Xbox Anaconda or PS5, the tech is better than you, I, or anyone else could have hoped for.

Even better, Microsoft and Sony are working hard to give you great gaming experiences, whether it's AAA games from Worldwide Studios, innovative services like Gamepass or future focused initiatives like the joint venture between MS/Sony for Cloud Gaming.

What we will be receiving in the near future from Xbox and PlayStation looks to be way better than we have today.

This is a scary thought, because I honestly don't have enough time to play all the mountains of great games available today. It's backlog hell!

Whoever ultimately "wins" the TeraFlop war isn't necessarily going to give you better/worse games than the "Loser"

Deep down, we all know it. Or we all should know it

this gen is fascinating. Current gen was kinda budget PC in a box. Move to x86, unified memory, APU.

All good foundations

This coming gen im curious to see how MS and Sony refine that original foundation and optimise specific areas to improve game dev workflows, improve efficiency and remove bottlenecks
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,038
Okay I am sorry for doing this but i am gonna possibly mess up this thread again:



brad sams is saying that while he cant confirm the TFlops in the new rumor he says he heard anancodna is targeting 2x the GPU performance of x1x, the crucial point is twice the performance, not twice the TFlops. 12TF RDNA would be closer to 2.6x the performance, weird that he would hear only 2x considering its much more.

and then we have the windows central article:

They are specifically comparing it to the xbox one x 6TF and the X1S 1.4TF, GCN TFs, rather than presenting the number by itself. Its 12TF when compared to X1X 6TF.

Could the 12TF figure be when compared to X1X in GCN rather than RDNA flops? with the RDNA figure possibly being closer to 10TF?


ah just as some of the sediment was settling, let's just the waters again. This rollercoaster never ends
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,897
Okay I am sorry for doing this but i am gonna possibly mess up this thread again:



brad sams is saying that while he cant confirm the TFlops in the new rumor he says he heard anancodna is targeting 2x the GPU performance of x1x, the crucial point is twice the performance, not twice the TFlops. 12TF RDNA would be closer to 2.6x the performance, weird that he would hear only 2x considering its much more.

and then we have the windows central article:

They are specifically comparing it to the xbox one x 6TF and the X1S 1.4TF, GCN TFs, rather than presenting the number by itself. Its 12TF when compared to X1X 6TF.

Could the 12TF figure be when compared to X1X in GCN rather than RDNA flops? with the RDNA figure possibly being closer to 10TF?
So if we go with it being 12TF GCN, that would be around the 10TF mark that is floating around.

Well, they did say targeting 12TF anyway. The only thing we can point to now is that they will be >10TF. It is just by how much.
 

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,903
Montreal
After all the shit MS took about being weaker at launch and the lengths they then went to to ensure they later had "the most powerful console ever," it seems inconceivable that they would again launch with the weaker box. But that's apparently what will happen? I haven't been keeping up with this stuff closely.

Even if the performance difference is imperceivable, simply all the negative PR about beaing weaker than PS5 will be an anchor. I would've thought Phil was going to make it absolute priority #1 to have that bragging right, no matter how much it truly matters.

You would imagine that he'll be asked in every interview he does "You made such a big deal just months ago about being the most powerful but have now released a weaker machine than you competition. Why is that?"

If Xbox ends up being the weaker console of the two, it will be by a delta of about 15% at the maximum (from Matt's info about the differences between the two) and if that's the case, the marketing move is a simple one:
1) "This is the strongest console we've ever created"
2) "We have unique services and offerings such as GamePass and Xcloud"
3) "We have a plethora of first part studios that will be releasing content on our platform"

You can already see most of these talking points out in the wild, so to speak, already. There will not be large amounts of negative PR if the two systems are so close together power wise. Any executive above D-tier is capable of handling the PR speak regarding differentials between their competition and Spencer is no exception. He's also not going to be asked in every interview about having the weaker console, because that isn't reality.

Someone IS going to have the "weaker" console between the two of them, and no matter if its Sony or Microsoft, they'll just focus on their unique value propositions rather than being the "strongest". Advertising yourself as the "strongest" never amounted to all that much anyways in the past gens (without factoring in a number of other things), and the niche few who care about that extra small amount of power will just pick up the more powerful revision down the road instead.

You don't fight in a market as diverse as the video game industry for one talking point, you fight for multiple. This idea that a large amount of non-enthusiasts actually care about minute power differences (and minute power differences is the ONLY thing they care about) is frankly insane.

You can't win every battle when you make a new product, so you fight PR wise on the fronts you think your product is stronger. Power is just one of the many spokes in that wheel and one, in the past, that has proven to not be a large factor in buying decisions for the greater market. This is ESPECIALLY true heading into next gen, where the first priority for both Sony and Microsoft will be keeping their current customers locked into their ecosystems while trying to acquire new customers from other ecosystems/the greater market.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,038
idk, it just struck me as odd, i really want 12TF beasts, but why would brad sams hear 2x performance if it was 12TF RDNA?

Oh it was a good catch and interesting call out - wasn't accusing of muddying as a bad thing. Just an illustration of how all of this is built on nothing concrete right now
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Okay I am sorry for doing this but i am gonna possibly mess up this thread again:



brad sams is saying that while he cant confirm the TFlops in the new rumor he says he heard anancodna is targeting 2x the GPU performance of x1x, the crucial point is twice the performance, not twice the TFlops. 12TF RDNA would be closer to 2.6x the performance, weird that he would hear only 2x considering its much more.

and then we have the windows central article:

They are specifically comparing it to the xbox one x 6TF and the X1S 1.4TF, GCN TFs, rather than presenting the number by itself. Its 12TF when compared to X1X 6TF.

Could the 12TF figure be when compared to X1X in GCN rather than RDNA flops? with the RDNA figure possibly being closer to 10TF?

What I think?

PR Reasons.

Maybe they are just trying to easily explain to people that dont quite get what RDNA is and does, so double the power of X1X is the most painless way to do it. Especially when it's to be posted at a place like The Verge or Windows Central. Explaining that RDNA actually makes it better than the Xbox One X can come later.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,038
What I think?

PR Reasons.

Maybe they are just trying to easily explain to people that dont quite get what RDNA is and does, so double the power of X1X is the most painless way to do it. Especially when it's to be posted at a place like The Verge or Windows Central. Explaining that RDNA actually makes it better than the Xbox One X can come later.

then why not just skip TF and say 2.5 or 3x X1x?
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
What I think?

PR Reasons.

Maybe they are just trying to easily explain to people that dont quite get what RDNA is and does, so double the power of X1X is the most painless way to do it. Especially when it's to be posted at a place like The Verge or Windows Central. Explaining that RDNA actually makes it better than the Xbox One X can come later.

Penello had an interesting post talking about that in the xbox specs thread from yesterday.

But IDK, I still think it's 12 TF RDNA. Seems obvious to me that was a controlled leak shared by MS insiders.
 

SeanMN

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,185
Looking at the GPU configurations needed to hit 12 TF for Anaconda, I think 48 CU would require too high of clocks. So, 52 @ 1805 or 56 @ 1675 are looking like prime candidates.

Another thought I had, considering Lockhart, what if Anaconda had 3 Shader Engines and 54 Active CUs? 54 CUs for Anaconda, and 1 SE of 18 (active) CUs for Lockhart at 1740 would be 12 TF and 4 TF respectively. Perhaps it would help in the design process of these consoles if both shared the same basic Shader engine design?

there is nothing else that points to a 10 tflops GPU so it was bizarre to see this stated as a fact in the other thread.
There was a lot of discussion flying around yesterday, and a lot of people visiting the thread. I agree we don't really have any idea what the PS5 GPU could be like in terms of capability, other than most rumors pointing to greater than 10.0 TF.

I still think Oberon at ~2 GHz rumor fits pretty well. With clocks that high, I don't see them going larger than 44 CU, but I could be easily wrong.

Could the 12TF figure be when compared to X1X in GCN rather than RDNA flops? with the RDNA figure possibly being closer to 10TF?
It's likely readers of the articles aren't going to comprehend architectural advancements of GPU generations, but they will understand that what we're getting is larger than what we have. So relating the power in that way helps to inform the reader better than going into detail differences of RDNA vs GCN, etc.
What I think?

PR Reasons.

Maybe they are just trying to easily explain to people that dont quite get what RDNA is and does, so double the power of X1X is the most painless way to do it. Especially when it's to be posted at a place like The Verge or Windows Central. Explaining that RDNA actually makes it better than the Xbox One X can come later.
I agree.
 
Last edited:

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,831
What I think?

PR Reasons.

Maybe they are just trying to easily explain to people that dont quite get what RDNA is and does, so double the power of X1X is the most painless way to do it. Especially when it's to be posted at a place like The Verge or Windows Central. Explaining that RDNA actually makes it better than the Xbox One X can come later.
i would understand if it was only the WC article, but brad sams could have obviously been told 2.5x performance, RDNA is a major change for these next generation consoles so not capitalizing on that for explaining you also get another massive boost from that is kinda odd.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
and then we have the windows central article:

They are specifically comparing it to the xbox one x 6TF and the X1S 1.4TF, GCN TFs, rather than presenting the number by itself. Its 12TF when compared to X1X 6TF.

Could the 12TF figure be when compared to X1X in GCN rather than RDNA flops? with the RDNA figure possibly being closer to 10TF?

I said it before, but NOBODY should be quoting specs in GCN flops. That makes no sense. If a journo took it upon themselves to do that based on a '2x X1X' citation from a developer, that would be supremely dumb. But I doubt that's the case. I assume if they're reporting 12Tflops it's because that's what they heard specifically from a dev, and if a dev is being told that (by MS or whomever), then it'll be a figure based on RDNA. Neither MS or Sony or anyone else will be quoting floating point specs based on an architecture that never had anything to do with these systems.

i would understand if it was only the WC article, but brad sams could have obviously been told 2.5x performance, RDNA is a major change for these next generation consoles so not capitalizing on that for explaining you also get another massive boost from that is kinda odd.

If a dev said '12Tflops' and then the journo paraphrased that themselves to '2x X1X', that would be entirely understandable. I don't think many journos will be worrying about the conversion rate of GCN->RDNA flops.
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,501
If Xbox ends up being the weaker console of the two, it will be by a delta of about 15% at the maximum (from Matt's info about the differences between the two) and if that's the case, the marketing move is a simple one:
1) "This is the strongest console we've ever created"
2) "We have unique services and offerings such as GamePass and Xcloud"
3) "We have a plethora of first part studios that will be releasing content on our platform"

You can already see most of these talking points out in the wild, so to speak, already. There will not be large amounts of negative PR if the two systems are so close together power wise. Any executive above D-tier is capable of handling the PR speak regarding differentials between their competition and Spencer is no exception. He's also not going to be asked in every interview about having the weaker console, because that isn't reality.

Someone IS going to have the "weaker" console between the two of them, and no matter if its Sony or Microsoft, they'll just focus on their unique value propositions rather than being the "strongest". Advertising yourself as the "strongest" never amounted to all that much anyways in the past gens (without factoring in a number of other things), and the niche few who care about that extra small amount of power will just pick up the more powerful revision down the road instead.

You don't fight in a market as diverse as the video game industry for one talking point, you fight for multiple. This idea that a large amount of non-enthusiasts actually care about minute power differences (and minute power differences is the ONLY thing they care about) is frankly insane.

You can't win every battle when you make a new product, so you fight PR wise on the fronts you think your product is stronger. Power is just one of the many spokes in that wheel and one, in the past, that has proven to not be a large factor in buying decisions for the greater market. This is ESPECIALLY true heading into next gen, where the first priority for both Sony and Microsoft will be keeping their current customers locked into their ecosystems while trying to acquire new customers from other ecosystems/the greater market.
By bad PR I meant the word of mouth of gamers in general. I should've been clearer. You would go to any Twitch chat, YouTube comments section, gaming site comment section, forums, and even at times IRL and Xbox was the butt of jokes for being weaker.

That (among many other things obviously) really killed them this gen. Terrible word of mouth. Just surprisng to me that they didn't go WAY hard on making damn sure they were the strongest.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
They are specifically comparing it to the xbox one x 6TF and the X1S 1.4TF, GCN TFs, rather than presenting the number by itself. Its 12TF when compared to X1X 6TF.

Could the 12TF figure be when compared to X1X in GCN rather than RDNA flops? with the RDNA figure possibly being closer to 10TF?

Combine with Tom Warren's query about how Sony/Microsoft will measure performance on Twitter:



Amazing if all this time GCN/RDNA and performance target vs TF target have all been mixed up or both Sony and MS will be playing the numbers game.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
i would understand if it was only the WC article, but brad sams could have obviously been told 2.5x performance, RDNA is a major change for these next generation consoles so not capitalizing on that for explaining you also get another massive boost from that is kinda odd.
that can come later. I assume this is their talking points

- Scarlett is powerful
- 12 teraflops, 3.2 zen 2, 16 gb ram
- twice the power of xbox one x

Short, concise. stuff about how RDNA helps can be explained in an official capacity, like during the Scarlett reveal.
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
But if it's GCN where does that leave lockhart? PS4 performance level? I don't think so. I think it's RDNA TF.
 

Gemüsepizza

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,541
Okay I am sorry for doing this but i am gonna possibly mess up this thread again:



brad sams is saying that while he cant confirm the TFlops in the new rumor he says he heard anancodna is targeting 2x the GPU performance of x1x, the crucial point is twice the performance, not twice the TFlops. 12TF RDNA would be closer to 2.6x the performance, weird that he would hear only 2x considering its much more.

and then we have the windows central article:

They are specifically comparing it to the xbox one x 6TF and the X1S 1.4TF, GCN TFs, rather than presenting the number by itself. Its 12TF when compared to X1X 6TF.

Could the 12TF figure be when compared to X1X in GCN rather than RDNA flops? with the RDNA figure possibly being closer to 10TF?


Good catch. I honestly wondered why Albert Penello came into the other thread yesterday and suddenly started talking about how one should compare next-gen FLOPS to current-gen FLOPS, because I didn't really see that point being discussed by anyone there. He said that maybe you could adjust numbers to make it easier to compare:


Obviously he can't talk about specs, but maybe that was a way of saying "Uhh, about this 12 TF number, ..."
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
The GCN -> Navi multiplier was derived from the relative performance on PC, correct? How do we know if that multiplier, which is questionable to begin with, is applicable for the relative performance of the two architectures when running console workloads? Especially since console workloads are so specifically tailored for the architecture they run on.
 

Jaypah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,866
The good (or bad) thing is since we trust that PS5 is more powerful by a small amount then whenever Ana's numbers go up or down it's dragging PS5 with it. At least this way it cuts a level of bickering out of the conversation automatically.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Good catch. I honestly wondered why Albert Penello came into the other thread yesterday and suddenly started talking about how one should compare next-gen FLOPS to current-gen FLOPS, because I didn't really see that point being discussed by anyone there. He said that maybe you could adjust numbers to make it easier to compare:


Obviously he can't talk about specs, but maybe that was a way of saying "Uhh, about this 12 TF number, ..."
I would think that they are going with option 2 & 3. Plenty of optimism about how next gen games would look like so far.
 
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