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vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,749
I think he's thinking stuff more like party chat and shareplay.



Surface is a laptop two to three times the retail price of a console. They can afford to do things with the manufacturing that would be impossible for consoles.

Also, afaik they're all actively cooled, which you can do in a tablet form factor. Not so much a small handheld gaming device like the Switch.

Don't worry my friend, 3nm will make this a reality, I'm sorta kinda maybe sure! 😃

Sony just has to release a PS5 Pro alongside a PS5 Portable in 2023 built on the 3nm manufacturing process. Utilizing advancements to mobile RDNA, a lower powered variant of RERAM for mobile, and a larger form factor that's maybe Switch-sized and I'm confident they can do it! 😃

Oh, and toss on a solid state battery that I'm sure will be commercially viable by then as well 😉
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,824
Australia
I think he's thinking stuff more like party chat and shareplay.



Surface is a laptop two to three times the retail price of a console. They can afford to do things with the manufacturing that would be impossible for consoles.

Also, afaik they're all actively cooled, which you can do in a tablet form factor. Not so much a small handheld gaming device like the Switch.

There is already a Surface with a 7W 7nm ARM chip with 2TF - hopefully 5nm or 3nm processes can improve on this design so it becomes feasible to put into a Switch 2 with passive cooling and a lower budget.

For an x86 PS4 portable though... 3nm at the bare minimum. PS5 Portable... well, it's nice to have dreams.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,749
There is already a Surface with a 7W 7nm ARM chip with 2TF - hopefully 5nm or 3nm processes can improve on this design so it becomes feasible to put into a Switch 2 with passive cooling and a lower budget.

For a PS4 portable though... 3nm at the bare minimum.

Finally, another believer!
But I think you meant to say PS5 Portable instead of Switch 2 or PS4 Portable 😜
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,749
I did not. I am the cloud that rains on your parade.


tumblr-miotte1gk-Q1rdlwr5o1-500.gif
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
I think one other thing that we should speculate about is something jschreier mentioned in his Kotaku piece;



So why OS features? Could it be something to do with the file format system? Will MS stick with using either NTFS or ExFAT, or develop a new one optimised for SSDs like what Apple did with APFS?
I am telling y'all it's going to be Xbox - 10 TF, PS5 - 10.24 TF.

I am fully ready for that delicious L
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,749
Question, since Sony included tech for checkerboard rendering in the PS4 Pro, could there be similar hardware for temporal injection? Or any chance we might see CB Rendering pt. 2 with improvements over the existing technique?
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,514
Chicagoland
Horizon 2 I don't expect til Fall 2021 at the earliest, and to me, even that seems too soon. So probably a smaller game from another team at launch.
 

tomwarren

Senior Editor, The Verge
Verified
Apr 18, 2018
339
I think one other thing that we should speculate about is something jschreier mentioned in his Kotaku piece;



So why OS features? Could it be something to do with the file format system? Will MS stick with using either NTFS or ExFAT, or develop a new one optimised for SSDs like what Apple did with APFS?
Microsoft has ReFS, but filesystems alone won't do anything too crazy these days. Microsoft has spent 10 years working on RTX and DirectX RT with Nvidia, though.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,749
Also excited to see what will come out of Sony's acquisition of Audiokinetic. To date I don't think we've heard of anything Sony plans to do with them, but I have to imagine they're going to use Wwise as a Trojan horse for a new audio format for gaming and that it'll be utilized the best on the 3d audio chip they mentioned will be in the PS5. Still hoping it's based on their 360 Reality Audio tech as impressions seemed very positive
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
Microsoft has ReFS, but filesystems alone won't do anything too crazy these days. Microsoft has spent 10 years working on RTX and DirectX RT with Nvidia, though.
Xbox's Cloud based ray tracing assistive algorithm will be the 👨‍🍳👌and further provide refinement to the existing hardware based solution. Am I right?
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Microsoft has ReFS, but filesystems alone won't do anything too crazy these days. Microsoft has spent 10 years working on RTX and DirectX RT with Nvidia, though.
Yeah, I read about ReFS, and as of now it looks to lack a lot of features in NTFS. I guess they are probably still going to stick with NTFS, and PS5 will stick with ExFAT.
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
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Oct 28, 2017
6,943
Question, since Sony included tech for checkerboard rendering in the PS4 Pro, could there be similar hardware for temporal injection? Or any chance we might see CB Rendering pt. 2 with improvements over the existing technique?
That's an interesting one because nowadays cb is even available down to Xbox One so I wonder what that hardware actually helped with in the end. Not saying it didn't do anything but it seems that software algorithms could achieve the same thing with minimal cost.
That said, I think both look to implement hardware that usually costs to free up resources on computing units. But currently there seems to be a lot going with image manipulation to achieve great results while rendering at lower resolution that implementing hardware right now might be outperformed by a future software solution leaving the hardware being unused.
 

X-Peaceman-X

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
303
Is it possible that Microsoft could have went back and designed a way for games to automatically get downscaled to Lockhart so that devs wouldn't have to mess with it much or make it significantly easier? Or is that pretty much impossible?
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
Anything new in the last 50 pages?
About the Lockhart/Anaconda parity, I am still looking for an answer, even it's for mocking my naive misconception regarding gamedesign :

How a dev could develop an Anaconda game rendered than upscaled or checkboarded from 1080 or 1440p to 4K with Lockhart in mind ?

Because if I am correct, the goal of checkboarding or upscaling is to keep some GPU power to render something else than the all pixels of a scene. You trade some fidelity too keep your framerate steady or to improve something else like more detailed NPCs or more particles.

So outside the most passionate members of the disbanded Church of Nativology, everyone can agree that all these reconstruction technics are extremly powerfull tools in the hand of clever devs (from Guerilla to 505).

But where devs would find the room on Lockhart to do this, if the game is already internally rendered at 1080 or 1440p on Anaconda and using all the remaining juice to improve the game itself ?

That's the precise point where I think Lockhart could held back developement, but everyone ignores me without responding. 🙁
 

WhovianGamer

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,033
I wonder of MS will force developers to develope for Lockhart or if its by choice.

I can't imagine it'll be optional. Given how cheap it'll be, we could very well see it being the Xbox console taken up by most people if Gamepass continues to offer such excellent value. I'm primarily a PlayStation, PC and Nintendo guy, but I'd pick up a cheap Xbox for sure, just for Gamepass games.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
Is it possible that Microsoft could have went back and designed a way for games to automatically get downscaled to Lockhart so that devs wouldn't have to mess with it much or make it significantly easier? Or is that pretty much impossible?

A scheme like that, for it to work in a guaranteed way, would have to be heavily prescriptive of how games use the hardware. More or less force the runtime to be like a Lockhart sandbox with some fixed knobs to turn certain things up for Ana. I think something like that would go down like a lead balloon... in a way it would be like forcing devs to use a single game engine. As much as devs may not like Lockhart, it's better to leave them decide how to make the accommodations for Lockhart that suit their game, whether to port up or down etc. etc.

Tools could be offered that statically analyse a game and make suggestions or MS could even offer their own engine that makes the process more transparent, but these things would have to only ever be options.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,275
Even the absolute minimum of 10TF is about 9% better than a 5700XT. So we're getting at least 2070 Super level power unless all these people are wrong, and almost certainly more than a laptop 2080. If it's actually 11TF, then that would be pretty much the same as a 2080.

Sounds like lunacy, but with multiple sources pointing to it...
Any decent 5700XT runs at their max boost clock of 1900mhz which makes it a 9.75 Tflops card and then it's still 10% behind a 2070 Super so 11 Tflops would put it around that level. https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-5700-xt-pulse/28.html

Here's a review that includes the 5700XT AE which clocked at a minimum of 2020mhz/10.3 Tflops in their review and it's still 5-10% behind the 2070 Super on average.
 

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,608
Is it possible that Microsoft could have went back and designed a way for games to automatically get downscaled to Lockhart so that devs wouldn't have to mess with it much or make it significantly easier? Or is that pretty much impossible?
If there's such a tool, Microsoft would have released it for their Windows 10 users. Windows 10 users are just Microsoft's beta testers so they would have tested on them first.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
I can't imagine it'll be optional. Given how cheap it'll be, we could very well see it being the Xbox console taken up by most people if Gamepass continues to offer such excellent value. I'm primarily a PlayStation, PC and Nintendo guy, but I'd pick up a cheap Xbox for sure, just for Gamepass games.

I was thinking that, but the majority of games I play are on gamepass and I don't want to experience them in 1080p-1440p.
 

Deleted member 11276

Account closed at user request
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Oct 27, 2017
3,223
How a dev could develop an Anaconda game rendered than upscaled or checkboarded from 1080 or 1440p to 4K with Lockhart in mind ?

I don't think that will happen. You see, 4K TVs are very cheap today and they will get even cheaper by the time the next gen consoles arrive, many households are already equipped with 4K TVs and that will only increase. I firmly believe 4K will be the standard resolution of PS5 and Ana, just like 720p was for Xbox 360 and PS3. Having Lockhart as the 1080p console makes perfect sense for regular gamers who have a 4K TV and don't care about native resolution and just want a cheaper console. Also makes sense for those who are still on a 1080p TV.

I don't think there will be many cases of devs lowering the resolution instead of post-processing effects and shadow quality for example in next gen. And if they really need extra performance for outstanding visuals, they might use techniques like VRS instead of checkerboarding. Frankly, VRS still reduces the resolution, but unlike checkerboarding, only in specific spots where it's not noticed, so the image still appears similar to native 4K.
 

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
Why did this thread gain 20+ pages since yesterday?

Did something happen?

A lot of people who previously supported the concept of Lockhart, who then said ditching it was a great idea, are suddenly back on board with it.

I haven't seen a volte-face[/] this quick since The Party told everyone to stop hating on Eurasia and start hating on Eastasia during Hate Week.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
A lot of people who previously supported the concept of Lockhart, who then said ditching it was a great idea, are suddenly back on board with it.

I haven't seen a volte-face[/] this quick since The Party told everyone to stop hating on Eurasia and start hating on Eastasia during Hate Week.

This narrative is false.
I'm sure there's been ppl who liked the idea of lockhart since they first heard about it and vice versa.
I don't think many have flip flopped on the idea.
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
What this thread needs is for each of us to make 1000 words long posts about how we got our user names.
Silencer was actually a character I was developing for a narrative driven, stealth focused TPS I had in mind. The game would be set in a dystopian cyberpunk city and Silencer is a well renowned paid assassin. The core gameplay loop would be heavily influenced by MGSV but with greater emphasis on how each type of firearm has different specializations on how to tackle a mission. The narrative would tackle social outcasts and rebellion. However, because I got too busy to develop this concept further, I instead adopted the name for my online username for Discord and forums.

What's your story, my good sir?
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,824
Australia
Any decent 5700XT runs at their max boost clock of 1900mhz which makes it a 9.75 Tflops card and then it's still 10% behind a 2070 Super so 11 Tflops would put it around that level. https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-5700-xt-pulse/28.html

Here's a review that includes the 5700XT AE which clocked at a minimum of 2020mhz/10.3 Tflops in their review and it's still 5-10% behind the 2070 Super on average.

I was using the stated 9.2TF which I suppose assumes the base clock only. Agreed, it likely won't match a 2080 at boost clock then, but a 2080 stuck at base clock I could see happening.
 

Dave.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,139
Nah, you just don't believe in the power of MS. They CREATED DirectX. The API that all developers code against. I might get some heat for this, but it's the same thing every gen. Sony says they are more powerful and then the Xbox meets or exceeds their games. Now people don't want to believe in Lockhart. We'll see who is laughing in 2020. 👊🏾🖐🏾🎤
Nice
 

Mack

Banned
May 30, 2019
1,653
So what's the general consensus - will Lockhart affect the next-gen quality of Anaconda games?
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,824
Australia
So what's the general consensus - will Lockhart affect the next-gen quality of Anaconda games?

There isn't really one yet - all we know for sure is that a lot of devs are apparently unhappy, and even the ones who aren't unhappy don't seem to be actively positive about it.

Well probably know eventually though, through comparisons with PS5 exclusives.
 

Alandring

Banned
Feb 2, 2018
1,841
Switzerland
Why were you sad? You were planning to get a cheap console?
I don't want cross-gen games. I want next-gen exclusives as soon as possible. And I think Lockhart will help for that, because it will be cheaper, so the transition between current and next-gen will be faster.

I was really worried that the transition would be slower than this gen, especially if Anaconda and the PlayStation 5 really launch at 500$.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Silencer was actually a character I was developing for a narrative driven, stealth focused TPS I had in mind. The game would be set in a dystopian cyberpunk city and Silencer is a well renowned paid assassin. The core gameplay loop would be heavily influenced by MGSV but with greater emphasis on how each type of firearm has different specializations on how to tackle a mission. The narrative would tackle social outcasts and rebellion. However, because I got too busy to develop this concept further, I instead adopted the name for my online username for Discord and forums.

What's your story, my good sir?
I used to play Dota 2 and TF2 a lot a few years ago, and realised I probably took it too seriously. Realised that most I fought against were at least a decade younger my age, and there I was, flinging verbal shit at them.

So I thought of the most stupidest nickname to remind myself that I'm too old to take this seriously. It was FlutterPuffs at first, but I shortened it to Flutter since too many people started thinking I was a brony.

Also great fun when people start to flame the name when we are winning that I can just type "Yes, and you lost to someone with the nickname Flutter"
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
I used to play Dota 2 and TF2 a lot a few years ago, and realised I probably took it too seriously. Realised that most I fought against were at least a decade younger my age, and there I was, flinging verbal shit at them.

So I thought of the most stupidest nickname to remind myself that I'm too old to take this seriously. It was FlutterPuffs at first, but I shortened it to Flutter since too many people started thinking I was a brony.

Also great fun when people start to flame the name when we are winning that I can just type "Yes, and you lost to someone with the nickname Flutter"
I see, good choice. No point getting worked up over online matches. I personally take bans from time to time intentionally killing the hostage in Rainbow Six Siege. My friends don't always appreciate it though XD
 
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