fascinating, the SSD on the PS5 is going to be a real game changer huh.
yea i guess you would want the GPU resources to be focused on rendering the image instead of using a lot of it for SSD decompression.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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I also wanted to say lol but not because of the timing but I call bullshit because of 120 fps and of course bringing the scarlett dev kit into a "troublesome" area because not hitting 120 fps easily.
But at the time the only feasible GPU card comparable to what would be used in next-gen consoles was the 5700/5700XT which have around 44-48 CUs and supposedly the next-gens GPUs are different, so the CU count might not apply here. Perhaps we are in the 50-60 count (I am completely lost in terms of silicon space that would take) which would make those assumptions about clocks and Tflops nil.
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I would reckon that it's more likely that both consoles will get much more high performing CUs than 50-60 CU counts.
Even more when 11 teraflops is seemingly unlikely.
Even more when 11 teraflops is seemingly unlikely.
Your point is fair that it's not always going to be that way. But it's not clear when that change will happen. And Sony made a huge blunder in price on PS3, and Xbox followed with a huge blunder on price in 2013.
Remember that games were $39.99 in 1978 and held until 1985 when they were $49.99. That held until 2004 when they went to $59.99 (and yes, there have been outliners through the years, but those were the mainstream prices).
So gaming seems to fight inflation (and is a killer deal today relative to gaming back in the 80's and 90's.)
(link to one of my favorite graphics: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/92djek/console_prices_adjusted_for_inflation/)
There is also the global problem where different currencies and duties make consoles even more in other nations. So that extra $100 could have a big multiplier when it comes to tariffs and taxes around the world.
My guess is that by the time consoles are "mainstream" at $499 is when consoles don't sell as high volumes anymore.
Despite what we all want in a console, price generally beats performance at scale. If it didn't, you'd see both the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X being the volume leaders. But last time I looked they were both hovering around 25% of the total mix per platform.
It is all but certain PS5 and Scarlett will have monolithic SoC/APU and not chiplets.
I am now starting to think that chiplets won't show up in consoles until PS6 and Xbox Scarlett's successor, around 2027.
We may or may not see upgraded midgen consoles. Some folks here have suggested that chiplets will be saved for the PS6 / 10th gen, to allow a reasonable leap over 2020 consoles as the pace of silicon advancement via Moore's Law and Denard Scaling slow down, and the cost of future nodes beyond "7nm" skyrocket.
I am not saying that a PS5 Pro won't happen around 2023 and I'm also not saying that if it does, it won't use chiplets (likewise for a Scarlett X around the same time if not a year later), I'm just saying it is far from certain.
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I agree . We gotta wait and see the approach they take I guess .
In my eyes the way Sony CEO Came out and said ps5 is for niche audience compared to mobile gaming and people who want the latest tech ,signaled 499 price .
we ll see :)
The console market is a niche compared to mobile gaming at 399 dollars or 499 dollars. This is the same. 100 million consoles are nothing against 2.1 billion mobile phone gamers.
Depends, people said PS4 was a $1000 PC & it got beat by a $150 750 Ti on cross gen games. We have to wait & see what Ampere can offer & it's prices. Nvidia & AMD are being real greedy at the moment though, so i dunno.
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This isn't really true for consoles. It's been fairly consistent through the years.
1985 - NES $199
1991 - SNES $199
1995 - PSX $299
2000 - PS2 $299
2001 - Xbox $299
2005 - 360 $299/399
2006 - PS3 $499/599 (outlier)
2013 - PS4 $399
2013 - Xbone $499
2016 - Pro $399
2017 - X $499
I'm pretty sure the $399 years are behind us. PS3 should have been grouped in the $399 generation. Xbone should also have been in the $399 generation.
PS5 and next Xbox absolutely reside in the next step up for console prices based on timeframe at $499
I do not.
C'mon man. I said there were outliers. Yeah carts at the end of that gen got expensive. So were N64. But pulling from the SAME catalog, Saturn and PS1 games were averaging $50.
It's almost as if some kind of thing exists where money is worth less over time and costs inflate...
Both consoles will be $500.
They're getting desktop class CPUs, at least mid-level desktop class GPUs, >16GB RAM, SSD etc
Do people really think that the PS5 and Scarlett are going to launch at lower prices than Xbox One X CURRENTLY sells at?
What's not true? This is exactly what I have said - consoles for the most part fought inflation and have stayed pretty similar throughout the years. If you were to adjust to say, the value of an NES in today's dollars, a console should cost about $475 today.
Regarding the SSD, how did we reach the conclusion that the hardware decompression accelerator isnt just the GPU again? I am trying to read back on all of it now and thinking about it again i am not sure we have directly debunked it being the GPU yet (other than assuming so because the GPU needs those resources)
If we add in inflation, doesnt it make more sense to target $499?
He did the accurate inflation calcualtion on this but yeah this would most likely lead to 499 today.
Edit: maybe partly misunderstood your post initially.
Because it is like in the patent. I will retrieve the R&D paper and of a 980 is used for decompressed SSD files and keep with the huge speed. It takes all the 980 power to do it and the SSD in the PS5 is probably faster and needs more power to keep with the speed.
Do you really, genuinely think that this time next year we will be able to buy a PS5 for $100 LESS than the Xbox One X currently sells at?
Or are you just digging your heels in because you didn't really think through your $399 statement?
Because the idea that next gen consoles (Zen 2, RDNA with RT, SSDs, GDDR6, haptic controllers etc) will cost less than what we currently have seems pretty crazy to me.
In that case wouldnt such a hardware decompressor need to be highly performant too? Is there a device that can handle such decompression technologies at high speeds efficiently?
They can get the parts cheaper & i think it's safe to say the CPU has less L3 cache to get that cheaper too, but i dunno why people keep expecting $399, even with SSD's crashing in price, it's all going to add up to a $100 increase over PS4.
You can always build an ASIC to do that, of course. But it costs and probably needs some power and cooling for such high speeds.
Hardware decompressor are ASICS and they have only one function decompress they are more efficient to do it than a CPU or a GPU
The study a GTX 980 and for the CPU test a Core i7-4790 3.66 Ghz:
I talk about this study in an old next-generation thread when I said I take a permaban if the technology in the patent is not linked to the SSD in the PS5. And the mod said it is not authorized to do ban bet but like I said last time the technology into the patent is at least part of the SSD technology in PS5. I trust my friend because he was surprised seeing the gofreak topic and said they find it but did not give the speed or the latency because an order 66 will arrive. He just asks and you can verify in my post history if someone finds the Dualshock 5 patent. I know him for 14 years and the only things I will say he knows something about PS5 devkit but nothing about Scarlett out of what friends in the industry told him probably. Since this surprise, he said nothing because of NDA.
And without gofreak find, he would have said nothing.
100 dollars increase. You can find 1 TB SSD at 100 dollars at retails it means you can divide the price by two to find the cost. An SSD will not cost more than 10 to 30 dollars more than a 2.5 HDD in 2013 and in the case of PS5 it means the HDD is gone and all the mechanical part to replace the HDD is gone too.
Interesting, i guess the performance and power draw of this ASIC device will probably be a major factor in the final speed of the SSD.
Then again, we have MS that are supposedly using the GPU for decompression, wouldnt it be a problem for in game streaming? Although it does seem like the GPU boosts the decompression performance by 40x going by the research you linked, it would be a major bottleneck while rendering, as it would force a major chunk of the GPU to be utilized for decompression.
In the patent, they say SRAM help decrease the price compare to use DRAM but for hardware decompressor and the secondary CPU(ARM probably) they talk about cost and say faster is the SSD, the more they need hardware decompressor working in parallel and the same for the secondary CPU more ARM processor in parallel or more powerful. And it seems this is where the cost limitation appear and a compromise needs to be made.
For MS maybe they will only compressed data when they need to load the game and stream uncompressed data.
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TDP is a made up marketing number that has little to do with the power draw of a chip. Don't believe me, go check out Gamers Nexus video on how meaningless TDP is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVT1hydbBIE
The upside of the requirements for power usage on various electronics is that is saves consumers money on their power bill, and the saving on even a console using less than the previous generation can be massive when we talk about millions of units. Using less than 200W makes the cooling solution less complex and cheaper, so it's not necessarily a bad thing that manufacturers need to show come constraint. We all remember the fat PS3 launch box.
where did the 44-48 cu count come from again? cause it aint the cards you mentioned.
Jeez I revised my post and it appears I got lots of stuff mixed up.
5700 has 36 CUs and 5700XT has 40 CUs.
The 44-48CUs I got was from what was rumored to fit in the next-gen consoles according to their (rumored) die sizes.
Apologies to everyone for my confusion
Smells like another esram disaster, which is enough to rule it out methinks.
"Enterprise customers such as Salesforce, Goldman Sachs will also be in the video talking about how Scarlett in the cloud will power their business." and bullshit.
Ahh how much i missed bullshit pastebin leaks, the funniest parts of these threads
Hoping they arrest them live on video, definitely would sell me on Scarlett
They'll certainly cost more to make, but I could see the PS5 being $399 if Sony is willing to take a $150-200 loss. Still wouldn't be as crazy as what they did with PS3.
I wonder if AMD would ever try jumping into the super-gaming-laptop space with a huge APU. Something the size of a 2080 Ti chip.
$150-200 looks kinda crazy on its own but then you think about how much they loss for the PS4 and how many more potent revenue streams they have now to counter losses.
I suppose it isn't impossible but I still think $499 is more likely.
I suppose it isn't impossible but I still think $499 is more likely.
They took a $188 loss at the start of the PS2 gen, so it's not total lunacy. I agree, though - $499 is likely and what I expect.
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