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Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
Who's he? Did you misread "college" as "colleague"? :P

In any case, I wouldn't know, it's just word that was being passed around.

Apparently a dev kit costs $2000, that's the equivalent of RM 8000 in Malaysia, quite a lot to pay for when we students usually only develop our projects on PC

Yup sure. I read it as "colleague", noted afterwards the actual spelling but then thought you may have misspelled it. Apologies, twas a poor assumption.

It's an interesting question - how many 'leaks' were actually there to date. A 100? A 1000?
99% would put the number of non-guess work really low - like we may be talking about a single actual leak (which presumably would be whoever first talked about Lockhart/Anaconda by name, as that's the one thing that is not a guess).

No idea. We've had a few leaks by insiders here, on reddit and eslewhere with info. we were already speculating on. Others that were just plain BS on Youtube and the like and like a bajillion pastebin posts that clearly fail the credibility test.

To your point on codename leaks, those aren't really anything I would consider leaks, because A) a codename is of no real consequence to us, and B) the final product more than often will not be revealed against said codenames--giving us no real way to verify whether a leak revealing codenames was real or not.

Wait so I can't criticize the negative spin game? I have to go elsewhere? Come on now...

If you're disingenuously mischaracterizing well reasoned posts as "negative spin" simply because you don't like what they're saying then I think you should probably take a step back from the keyboard... yes.

Either engage with the actual argument a person is making, by producing an equally well reasoned counterpoint, or don't reply. Otherwise it just derails the discussion.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Can't believe we are still having this subject on XCloud. This was literally said by Spencer a month ago.



Even the head of Xbox thinks so. Next year ain't it. Or the next. It's going to take time.
 

Red Tapir

Member
May 10, 2019
591
Can't believe we are still having this subject on XCloud. This was literally said by Spencer a month ago.



Even the head of Xbox thinks so. Next year ain't it. Or the next. It's going to take time.

Exactly this.

XCloud is clearly being envisioned as a side venture for now, with good growth potential for later.
 

Welfare

Prophet of Truth - You’re my Numberwall
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,915
This is from a few pages back but here are the 8th gen only releases (not counting enhanced ports like MCC) between November 2013 and December 2014. Also just doing anything that had a retail release.

November 2013
Dead Rising 3
Fighter Within
Forza Motorsport 5
Killzone: Shadow Fall
Knack
Ryse: Son of Rome

March 2014
inFAMOUS: Second Son

June 2014
EA Sports UFC

October 2014
Dance Central Spotlight
Driveclub
Lords of the Fallen
Project Spark
Shadow Warrior
Sunset Overdrive

November 2014
Assassin's Creed: Unity

So yeah, don't expect too many next gen only games so soon.

Not every game that had a 7th gen version sold well on those platforms, so maybe devs drop this gen faster than last time?
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
This is from a few pages back but here are the 8th gen only releases (not counting enhanced ports like MCC) between November 2013 and December 2014. Also just doing anything that had a retail release.

November 2013
Dead Rising 3
Fighter Within
Forza Motorsport 5
Killzone: Shadow Fall
Knack
Ryse: Son of Rome

March 2014
inFAMOUS: Second Son

June 2014
EA Sports UFC

October 2014
Dance Central Spotlight
Driveclub
Lords of the Fallen
Project Spark
Shadow Warrior
Sunset Overdrive

November 2014
Assassin's Creed: Unity

So yeah, don't expect too many next gen only games so soon.

Not every game that had a 7th gen version sold well on those platforms, so maybe devs drop this gen faster than last time?

We should also remember that it is very rare next gen exclusive launch games are excellent.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
This is from a few pages back but here are the 8th gen only releases (not counting enhanced ports like MCC) between November 2013 and December 2014. Also just doing anything that had a retail release.

November 2013
Dead Rising 3
Fighter Within
Forza Motorsport 5
Killzone: Shadow Fall
Knack
Ryse: Son of Rome

March 2014
inFAMOUS: Second Son

June 2014
EA Sports UFC

October 2014
Dance Central Spotlight
Driveclub
Lords of the Fallen
Project Spark
Shadow Warrior
Sunset Overdrive

November 2014
Assassin's Creed: Unity

So yeah, don't expect too many next gen only games so soon.

Not every game that had a 7th gen version sold well on those platforms, so maybe devs drop this gen faster than last time?

Your conclusion doesn't match the evidence you posted. In a single year, that's a lot of next-gen exclusive games. It's pretty impressive overall.

To your final point, I'm of the view that devs will want to drop current-gen faster than ever before for precisely the reason you give and more. The historical precedent is there. Why gimp the creative potential of your game for a legacy console when the data shows very few consumers will actually buy it there?

We should also remember that it is very rare next gen exclusive launch games are excellent.

TBH, it's rare that any game released any time is excellent. Most games are mediocre to good (thanks EA/Ubisoft/Activision).
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Your conclusion doesn't match the evidence you posted. In a single year, that's a lot of next-gen exclusive games. It's pretty impressive overall.

To your final point, I'm of the view that devs will want to drop current-gen faster than ever before for precisely the reason you give and more. The historical precedent is there. Why gimp the creative potential of your game for a legacy console when the data shows very few consumers will actually buy it there?



TBH, it's rare that any game released any time is excellent. Most games are mediocre to good (thanks EA/Ubisoft/Activision).

Yes, but even rarer at console launches.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
I wouldn't consider xCloud a side venture. It's very clearly a major pillar for Xbox going forward, they just aren't rushing to market ala Stadia.
Keyword is 'for now'. The same with Playstation's cloud gaming service. Both companies have bet on it to be the future of gaming, but it wont be anytime soon.

Stadia's different because Google has the money to burn to try and force it to happen quickly (and I doubt it will)
 

Welfare

Prophet of Truth - You’re my Numberwall
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,915
Your conclusion doesn't match the evidence you posted. In a single year, that's a lot of next-gen exclusive games. It's pretty impressive overall.

To your final point, I'm of the view that devs will want to drop current-gen faster than ever before for precisely the reason you give and more. The historical precedent is there. Why gimp the creative potential of your game for a legacy console when the data shows very few consumers will actually buy it there?
The list looks long but when you actually look at what the games are, it shows very little in actual "big games" post launch.

November 2013 biggest games of that list were Killzone and Xbox's big three. Then there's inFAMOUS and a massive gap to October.

I want to see the death of current as fast as possible and hope SSD's are something devs take advantage of immediately. It's also entirely possible they gut the games to be able to port them to PS4/XB1, like how Black Ops 3 did not launch with a campaign on 360.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe

"AMD's plans for their 2nd Generation rDNA based Radeon RX Navi GPU lineup is to offer a product preview at CES 2020. That would be interesting and makes sense since CES 2020 will be a huge event for AMD to unveil their 2020 product portfolio which includes Zen 3 and 2nd Gen rDNA based products for mainstream, enthusiast, notebook and server markets. It is already confirmed that the rDNA 2 GPU architecture is in-design and scheduled for launch in 2020. Some of the features to expect from 2nd Generation rDNA Navi GPUs would be:

  • Optimized 7nm+ process node
  • Enthusiast-grade desktop graphics card options
  • Hardware-Level Ray Tracing Support
  • A mix of GDDR6 and HBM2 graphics cards
  • More power-efficient than First-Gen Navi GPUs"

"It should also be pointed out that high-end Navi GPUs might retain High-Bandwidth memory design like the current flagship. While AMD is featuring GDDR6 memory on their mainstream RDNA based cards, it is likely that the company would go ahead with the newer HBM2E VRAM.

The HBM2E DRAM comes in 8-Hi stack configuration and utilizes 16 Gb memory dies, stacked together and clocked at 3.2 Gbps. This would result in a total bandwidth of 410 GB/s on a single and 920 GB/s with two HBM2E stacks which is just insane. To top it all, the DRAM has a 1024-bit wide bus interface which is the same as current HBM2 DRAM. Samsung says that their HBM2E solution, when stacked in 4-way configuration, can offer up to 64 GB memory at 1.64 TB/s of bandwidth. Such products would only be suitable for servers/HPC workloads but a high-end graphics product for enthusiasts can feature up to 32 GB memory with just two stacks which is twice as much memory as the Radeon VII."

"AMD Also To Intro A New Navi 10 Based Graphics Card In The $250-$300 US Segment, Full Navi 14 GPU Exclusive To Apple"


CES 2020 will be from Jan 7-Jan 10 2020...so we might know specs and capabilities of next rDNA2 with HW RT even before Sony and MS reveal their new consoles that will have those features.
 
Last edited:

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,556
Keyword is 'for now'. The same with Playstation's cloud gaming service. Both companies have bet on it to be the future of gaming, but it wont be anytime soon.

I'd keep an eye on the rollout in India. If they are able to establish a foothold there with the xCloud testing, I would expect them to launch officially sooner than we think in an attempt to be the premier game streaming solution in the region.
 
Last edited:

No_Face

Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,080
Brigerbad, Switzerland
This is from a few pages back but here are the 8th gen only releases (not counting enhanced ports like MCC) between November 2013 and December 2014. Also just doing anything that had a retail release.

November 2013
Dead Rising 3
Fighter Within
Forza Motorsport 5
Killzone: Shadow Fall
Knack
Ryse: Son of Rome

March 2014
inFAMOUS: Second Son

June 2014
EA Sports UFC

October 2014
Dance Central Spotlight
Driveclub
Lords of the Fallen
Project Spark
Shadow Warrior
Sunset Overdrive

November 2014
Assassin's Creed: Unity

So yeah, don't expect too many next gen only games so soon.

Not every game that had a 7th gen version sold well on those platforms, so maybe devs drop this gen faster than last time?
To me it felt like some publishers were very unsure about next gen concoles at the time. I still remember all those articles about the death of console gaming and what not. I wouldn't be surprised if things would have looked differently, had publishers known how crazy fast ps4 would sell. We don't see these kinds of sentiments right now and no one really doubts that ps5 and scarlett are going to be a success. Maybe that means devs will be less careful this time around with next gen exclusives?
 

Dokkaebi G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,922
Still no data on how people like me, with good broadband but mobile data caps, are going to manage?

Shit's wild brah
MS has literally said there are billions of gamers worldwide. I don't need to scrap up some slide for you as it's public knowledge already. Xcloud, since announcement, has been in tandem with 5g as a partner to get this to the public. That is what I've been talking about since the beginning. You keep bringing up irrelevant shit that's only a small piece of the an issue and deals more with YOUR local laws/practices vs the intent of xcloud. You're focused on YOU Instead of looking at it as a whole. Lmao
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
To me it felt like some publishers were very unsure about next gen concoles at the time. I still remember all those articles about the death of console gaming and what not. I wouldn't be surprised if things would have looked differently, had publishers known how crazy fast ps4 would sell. We don't see these kinds of sentiments right now and no one really doubts that ps5 and scarlett are going to be a success. Maybe that means devs will be less careful this time around with next gen exclusives?
Definitely it. We know that most devs just was taken by surprise with PS4 and Xbox's initial success, when analysts predicted that it wont happen.
 

Dave.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,153
If cross gen applies to x1 because of Xcloud, what's stopping Sony letting ps4 owners play ps5 games via psnow?

I am curious if they respond to MS' moves with allowing people to stream their digital purchases for free.
The "for free" method is to be remote play style, from their home consoles. So in a way, Sony responded to this in 2013.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,904
To me it felt like some publishers were very unsure about next gen concoles at the time. I still remember all those articles about the death of console gaming and what not. I wouldn't be surprised if things would have looked differently, had publishers known how crazy fast ps4 would sell. We don't see these kinds of sentiments right now and no one really doubts that ps5 and scarlett are going to be a success. Maybe that means devs will be less careful this time around with next gen exclusives?
That is definitely part of it. That is why I think we will see next gen only games become the norm at a notably quicker pace. As for first party, I see Sony going all in with their major titles.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,865
If cross gen applies to x1 because of Xcloud, what's stopping Sony letting ps4 owners play ps5 games via psnow?

I am curious if they respond to MS' moves with allowing people to stream their digital purchases for free.
We've been able to stream any of our games via remote play for years for free.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
I reckon the potential market for game streaming is at least 500million.

All the people with PS4's and X1s , pc's and switches who play online games will be potential streaming customers, Infact intialy I think these people will make the bulk of streaming users, as they will use streaming as a companion gaming service on there phones.


Very important safety tip:
Ignoring means health insurance
Hey Colbert, how have you been?
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,844

"AMD's plans for their 2nd Generation rDNA based Radeon RX Navi GPU lineup is to offer a product preview at CES 2020. That would be interesting and makes sense since CES 2020 will be a huge event for AMD to unveil their 2020 product portfolio which includes Zen 3 and 2nd Gen rDNA based products for mainstream, enthusiast, notebook and server markets. It is already confirmed that the rDNA 2 GPU architecture is in-design and scheduled for launch in 2020. Some of the features to expect from 2nd Generation rDNA Navi GPUs would be:

  • Optimized 7nm+ process node
  • Enthusiast-grade desktop graphics card options
  • Hardware-Level Ray Tracing Support
  • A mix of GDDR6 and HBM2 graphics cards
  • More power-efficient than First-Gen Navi GPUs"

"It should also be pointed out that high-end Navi GPUs might retain High-Bandwidth memory design like the current flagship. While AMD is featuring GDDR6 memory on their mainstream RDNA based cards, it is likely that the company would go ahead with the newer HBM2E VRAM.

The HBM2E DRAM comes in 8-Hi stack configuration and utilizes 16 Gb memory dies, stacked together and clocked at 3.2 Gbps. This would result in a total bandwidth of 410 GB/s on a single and 920 GB/s with two HBM2E stacks which is just insane. To top it all, the DRAM has a 1024-bit wide bus interface which is the same as current HBM2 DRAM. Samsung says that their HBM2E solution, when stacked in 4-way configuration, can offer up to 64 GB memory at 1.64 TB/s of bandwidth. Such products would only be suitable for servers/HPC workloads but a high-end graphics product for enthusiasts can feature up to 32 GB memory with just two stacks which is twice as much memory as the Radeon VII."

"AMD Also To Intro A New Navi 10 Based Graphics Card In The $250-$300 US Segment, Full Navi 14 GPU Exclusive To Apple"


CES 2020 will be from Jan 7-Jan 10 2020...so we might know specs and capabilities of next rDNA2 with HW RT even before Sony and MS reveal their new consoles that will have those features.
very interesting.

does this mean Navi 12 does not really exist? maybe it was cancelled?

i guess that new navi 10 card is a 32CU chip, probably with 1500/1600mhz clock (above 6TF).

honestly if a single stack of HBM2E gives only 410GB/s bandwidth, it would probably be better to just go with GDDR6 as we are not getting 2 stacks for obvious reasons.

Personally because we are on a console i hope the power efficiency gains are signifcant, and not just because of the new 7nm+ node.

excited to see how their RT performance is. there is a lot riding on these cards, and if NVidia's Ampere architecture really has been delayed until 2021, this might be the moment for AMD to finally tackle the higher end market. the cards being revealed in CES gives me hope that they will launch earlier than expected and more likely that the next gen consoles use them.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,141
I reckon the potential market for game streaming is at least 500million.

All the people with PS4's and X1s , pc's and switches who play online games will be potential streaming customers, Infact intialy I think these people will make the bulk of streaming users, as they will use streaming as a companion gaming service on there phones.

I think the marketing going to be much smaller .
There may be billions of people who play games but they don't pay a cent to play them.
A lot of big games are free to play that already on a lot of devices and expect most to not even want to pay a subs fee.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
I think the marketing going to be much smaller .
There may be billions of people who play games but they don't pay a cent to play them.
A lot of big games are free to play that already on a lot of devices and expect most to not even want to pay a subs fee.

I think the marketing will be on par with mobile games which have like over 50million players, when these kids and adult find out they can play console quality games on mobile I think it will take off.
I don't think it will be billions, but in 5yrs I bet 100 million people will be streaming games and it will only grow.
 

Red Tapir

Member
May 10, 2019
591
MS has literally said there are billions of gamers worldwide. I don't need to scrap up some slide for you as it's public knowledge already. Xcloud, since announcement, has been in tandem with 5g as a partner to get this to the public. That is what I've been talking about since the beginning. You keep bringing up irrelevant shit that's only a small piece of the an issue and deals more with YOUR local laws/practices vs the intent of xcloud. You're focused on YOU Instead of looking at it as a whole. Lmao
Appearently "neither myself nor anyone I know will be able to use your service" is irrelevant.

I thought the intent of XCloud was to get people to use it?
 

Red Tapir

Member
May 10, 2019
591
Quite the crusade your are on, buddy. Godspeed.
I literally said I agree with Phil Spencer that the service is not mainstream, nor will it be for years to come.
I don't think I can get more milquetoast than "the CEO here is correct".

In regards to Cloud gaming my hot takes are:
- PSNow is neat, but actual BC would be better
- XCloud seems neat (not available here), but clearly MS isn't basing their entire business model on it (GP is a far bigger deal, as are traditional revenue streams)
- Stadia can get in the sea, not good for games ownership and it looks frankly lacking on most fronts
- Not everyone's internet/mobile connection is good enough for streaming (I have 1GB fiber btw)
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,061
The "for free" method is to be remote play style, from their home consoles. So in a way, Sony responded to this in 2013.

wait - at x019 it sounded very much like you could stream your digital library freely via Xcloud- I think the assumption was from MS data centre. If that's just their remote playvariant that'd be a real disappointment
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
wait - at x019 it sounded very much like you could stream your digital library freely via Xcloud- I think the assumption was from MS data centre. If that's just their remote playvariant that'd be a real disappointment

It depends if they will be putting the entire catalog on the datacenter or not. From what xbox execs have been saying we don't know yet, since they've giving conflicting responses.

I think it will work like PSNow, they'll be adding titles overtime. Mostly gamepass titles which is their focus now.
 

Jen_yakazua

Member
Jul 31, 2019
32
This is from a few pages back but here are the 8th gen only releases (not counting enhanced ports like MCC) between November 2013 and December 2014. Also just doing anything that had a retail release.

November 2013
Dead Rising 3
Fighter Within
Forza Motorsport 5
Killzone: Shadow Fall
Knack
Ryse: Son of Rome

March 2014
inFAMOUS: Second Son

June 2014
EA Sports UFC

October 2014
Dance Central Spotlight
Driveclub
Lords of the Fallen
Project Spark
Shadow Warrior
Sunset Overdrive

November 2014
Assassin's Creed: Unity

So yeah, don't expect too many next gen only games so soon.

Not every game that had a 7th gen version sold well on those platforms, so maybe devs drop this gen faster than last time?
I would expect a lot more than this next gen simple due to the fact that game's are having a hard time running as this gen goes
 

EsqBob

Member
Nov 7, 2017
241
Will next-gen games stop using pre-rendered video, except for the intro of the game?

I hope they will. It seems pre-rendered video in games like Dragon Quest are just videos rendered on a very good gamer PC, not on rendering farms. They don't really look that much better than the real time stuff, plus you can see a lot of compression artifacts, and I hate that.

I like real time cutscenes more. They look good, sometimes it's possible to move the camera if that's advantageous, they look consistent with the rest of the game and they can be in HDR or SDR, depending on the display of the user.

I think it will become much harder next-gen to make pre-rendered videos that look better because the games will look better and they will render at higher resolutions. Higher resolution videos takes much more space, and maybe devs will be more mindful of file sizes because of the SSDs.
 

sncvsrtoip

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
2,773
Will next-gen games stop using pre-rendered video, except for the intro of the game?

I hope they will. It seems pre-rendered video in games like Dragon Quest are just videos rendered on a very good gamer PC, not on rendering farms. They don't really look that much better than the real time stuff, plus you can see a lot of compression artifacts, and I hate that.

I like real time cutscenes more. They look good, sometimes it's possible to move the camera if that's advantageous, they look consistent with the rest of the game and they can be in HDR or SDR, depending on the display of the user.

I think it will become much harder next-gen to make pre-rendered videos that look better because the games will look better and they will render at higher resolutions. Higher resolution videos takes much more space, and maybe devs will be more mindful of file sizes because of the SSDs.
I think most games in current generation don't use prerendered videos
 
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