Now that PS5 is confirmed for next Holiday, I'll need every ounce of willpower I can summon to keep myself from buying a PS4 Pro. I'm gonna want it for FFVII Remake and TLOU Part II, but I don't need it...
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Yea all that debunked from the guys tweets. Its fine. we can let that one go for now, at least.
Yup I agree.
I was amongst those telling people then too that there is no way MS gets hardware RT and sony doesn't. For the same reasons I am here now telling you about architecturally identical APUs.
Sounds reasonable. Though I would expect MS to have a better CPU. I also expect MS RT implementation to be more "advanced". Based on their APIs and software stuff. They just seem to be more ahead of the curve than sony on that front (unless sony is working on some stuff that we don't know about ye). So out the gate, I expect RT to be better on Scar and then PS RT catching up later in the gen.
Back to my "The reason Lockheart was cancelled was because Microsoft had found out that PS5 is ~ the same power as Anaconda which forced them to lower the Anaconda price point and cancel Lockheart" theory :)
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the twitter thread on the flute leak said that the cut down cache saves them 30mm2. isnt that like 4 dual CUs? or 8 CUs? if MS is at 1.8ghz and 8 fewer CUs, say (48 CUs) and Sony goes with 2.0 ghz and 56 CUs then we are looking at 11.05 flops vs 14.3 tflops. thats a 29% different. substantial imo. of course the big fat CPU in the MS console would obviously offer better performance during games and help mitigate some of the GPU
That said, I am pretty sure AMD pitched them both a 56 CU GPU at 1.5 ghz which seems like the sweet spot for TDP looking at the 5500m and the simulating gonzalo graph. Sony was able to increase the clocks due to the several factors; smaller CPU and thus smaller APU, an insane console design, HBM2 and a better cooling solution.
Forgive how random my posts are, but I'm thinking about this PS5 news in-between work.
Anyway, I'd like to give Sony some credit for how aggressive their marketing push for PS5 is. We're only getting small info drops, but they're nailing the important talking points just before their competition every time.
I want both consoles to do well, but I can't deny that Sony's first PS5 announcement took some of the buzz out of the Scarlett reveal for me. Now they've grabbed my attention again by giving small teases about the controller and redesigned OS features. Aside from games, they've teased just about everything I care about at this point.
Anyway, I'd like to give Sony some credit for how aggressive their marketing push for PS5 is. We're only getting small info drops, but they're nailing the important talking points just before their competition every time.
I want both consoles to do well, but I can't deny that Sony's first PS5 announcement took some of the buzz out of the Scarlett reveal for me. Now they've grabbed my attention again by giving small teases about the controller and redesigned OS features. Aside from games, they've teased just about everything I care about at this point.
Anyone else hope Jedi Fallen Order recommending 32GBs is a sign for consoles?
32GB isn't crazy out fo the question as it would be split between OS, system ram and Vram. (8 for OS, 12 each for system and video) but I think it makes 20+ more likely.
24GB GDDR6 at what, $7-$8 per 2GB chip, would be about $100ish maybe? I think we expect console makers to get it for $8ish, maybe $10 max per chip?
24GB would allow 4GB for Os, then 10/10 for system and video which would be great
if they get each chip for roughly $8, 32GB would be $130ish, which is out of thr question. I think they'll stay around $100-$110, like PS4 in 2013
32GB isn't crazy out fo the question as it would be split between OS, system ram and Vram. (8 for OS, 12 each for system and video) but I think it makes 20+ more likely.
24GB GDDR6 at what, $7-$8 per 2GB chip, would be about $100ish maybe? I think we expect console makers to get it for $8ish, maybe $10 max per chip?
24GB would allow 4GB for Os, then 10/10 for system and video which would be great
if they get each chip for roughly $8, 32GB would be $130ish, which is out of thr question. I think they'll stay around $100-$110, like PS4 in 2013
Which means Sony is maybe using something close to the vanilla AMD solution?
For me PS5 seems more mysterious, while we know the same amount of info for both, MS have said more about there intentions, "designing a console for gaming" "it eats monsters for breakfast".
Where Sony has said nothing about what they intend to do with PS5, apart from ssd stuff and now controller stuff. But I wonder what there sales pitches will be
To be fair I think it's rather fanfolkish to express a preference for either marketing approach at this time. I mean, they have both said the same things but in just different ways, each way both has its pros and cons.
Where Sony has said nothing about what they intend to do with PS5, apart from ssd stuff and now controller stuff. But I wonder what there sales pitches will be
To be fair I think it's rather fanfolkish to express a preference for either marketing approach at this time. I mean, they have both said the same things but in just different ways, each way both has its pros and cons.
Clearly, don't do it . But don't forget to pre-order the PS5 the second it is available or you won't have one before 2021.
But didn't AMD already give the ok for MS to reviel RT hardware at E3?
Yeah. There are only really three or four PS4 games left that I want to play between now and then anyway. Definitely not worth it. But no worries. I'll be all over the pre-orders!
But AMD implied in the Scarlett press release that they developed the raytracing hardware in Scarlett. And besides that Sony didn't say anything about the details of their raytracing other than to clarify that its hardware raytracing stemming from the confusion around the April article. We still don't know how its implemented so am not sure what or why they need AMDs permission to just say its hardware accelerated.
Maybe sony saying it as they did is making it clear that AMD is about or going to release RT-based GPUs. That may have been something AMD for whatever reason didn't want to say.
Up until now, RT has been made out to be an MS thing as opposed to an AMD thing. Even though the devil has always been in the details.
Absolutely. Said by the same guy even. I'm confused why so many are confused by that!
Focusing on what SSD, controller and RT can bring is way more gaming oriented than saying "designing a console for gaming" which are just words and more a way to say : "we won't doing the same mistake twice".
And from the last Yoshida interview : "As such, Yoshida mentioned the next generation will probably focus on bringing new ways of playing rather than improving graphics".
Spencer said : ""I think the area that we really want to focus on next generation is frame rate and playability of the games".
What if MS is the one not using AMD's RT implementation? What if their SoC is as big as it seems to be because they've put dedicated RT stuff outside of the GPU? Imagine a lump of cache and some extra piping that bridges the GPU and the RT hardware so you can shunt geometry and ray data back and forth, plus the extra logic to do the actual BVH building and traversal. That could take up some room.
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Pretty much. What are the chances that Sony uses third party RT solution though.
WHY 18GB? Just curious...
I think we gonna have 2 options in storage 1tb and 2tb, games gonna be huge for next gen. something between 100-200gb
the gizmodo leaker suggested that there might be something funky going on with MS's ray tracing solution. its possible MS has their own RTX solution and Sony is using the standard RDNA 2.0 rtx solution.
I would say 0%. And that goes to both of them. Having a separate chip tied to the APU and having to be in sync with the GPU fo RT is a very very very unnecessary and costly complication. Especially when AMD has thei own in house solution. Thts like going to get a separate chip to handle your textures and telling AMD to cut out the TMUs from their GPU.
Don't hold your breath. It will be the same way that both current-gen consoles launched with 500GB HDDs. That's the same way both will launch with 1TB SSDs. There s just no need to have a separate 2TB SKU. They will both only ofer1TB SSds and push the "feature" of using external HDD to expand storage. 2TB SKU is a useless luxury option come launch. Especially if it's going to be a SKU that costs $100 more.
No. Just doesn't make sense. I feel outside clocks/quantity differences on the hardware front (number of CUs/RT units..etc), the only other differences we will see will be via SDK differences. Oen GL vs DX12 type stuff.
Neither sony or MS are chip makers. And even if they were they aren't anywhere near as proficient as AMD. Just makes no sense why they would go and outsource RT hardware to someone else if AMD has it on offer.
Before MS confirmed HW RT for Scarlet while Sony didn't and many didn't want to believe that the PS5 will include HW RT.
Now that the thing got confirmed, I want to add more turmoil to those who only want conspiracies: Sony confirmed ray-traced audio for PS5 while MS didn't, does this mean scarlet won't have RT audio?
You see? It can be easy to create any conspiracy and and start bothering yourselves and people with it. :p
Now that the thing got confirmed, I want to add more turmoil to those who only want conspiracies: Sony confirmed ray-traced audio for PS5 while MS didn't, does this mean scarlet won't have RT audio?
You see? It can be easy to create any conspiracy and and start bothering yourselves and people with it. :p
I don't see a reason why Microsoft or Sony will use their own RT solution. AMD will probably have a GPU with RT support in 2020 and there is no reason for Microsoft or Sony to go wild and build crazy custom solution. They are both probably using the same RT solution, maybe with some minor custom changes
That's a good point. Sony confirmed RT Audio and MS didn't. Sony may end up edging out MS on audio features. Will be interesting to see that play out.
Probably not as I tried Xbox One earlier this gen and didn't click with the (MS) games. Will wait and see what Scarlett games are like. I would hold back getting a PS5 if it is loud, though. I felt PS3 wasn't worth £425 at launch and waited. Good decision as it effectively re-launched 6 months later at £299.
Unless if i am missing something this user seems to be just a nobody?
It seems like they are just speculating based off how before they were ambiguous but now they confirm it, but going by cerny's words in the new article, originally he just thought the ray tracing solution being hardware based is fairly obvious and that he didnt expect many to read into it.
Things where Sony and Microsoft will make similar hardware platforms distinct.
From more likely to be different to lesslikely to be more different.
-Games
Controller
User Interface / OS
Game services.
HW RT solutions
Memory architecture
Cooling solution
SSD
GPU
CPU
From more likely to be different to lesslikely to be more different.
-Games
Controller
User Interface / OS
Game services.
HW RT solutions
Memory architecture
Cooling solution
SSD
GPU
CPU
i would switch controller and UI/OS, but otherwise I agree.
This is under the assumption that both SOCs are approximately the same size and that Sony will go with a significantly higher TDP than MS. A scenario which I think is very unlikely.
I think AMD showed each company with tech they have available, then Sony and MS came up with their own requested configurations. I doubt AMD just showed them a specific design and said here you go. After the info on the 5500 and 5700, I'm inclined to think at least one of the consoles (PS5) will have 44 active (48 total) CUs, given it seems like 24 CU might be the higher end per shader engine. It may be possible to go above this number, but it could lead to an imbalance. I think this will be more clean with we get details on the rumored "big" Navi GPU, and seeing the shader engine and CU arrangement.
You're very focused on 56 CUs, where does that come from?
What was the leak/patent that had Sony showing the PS5 being able to run in two distinct modes, one being 2.13GHz, and the other being some higher clock that I forget?
The PS Blog article has more details about the DS5 feedback: https://blog.us.playstation.com/201...next-gen-playstation-5-launches-holiday-2020/ ?
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I like how the writer in wired article asked: is that a microphone? And he talked after about the voice assitant. this is what I hoped for: an integrated microphone in the DS5 so everyone could use voice chats in games and not just 1% of players, also this could be used even in SP gameplay and devs could target their games with it.
From the description of DualShock 5, this will be like the HD rumble from Switch + the trigger rumble from Xbox One.
I don't know how this would be possible to be felt on some surrounding pieces of plastic envelopping the inner rumble motors unless it's this:
Is this a hint about the toucpad being replaced by a touch screen for that to happen? If so, the devs should be made aware of this and start developing their games based on it. I don't think Sony wants to reveal all their cards at once, they just revealed some features of DS5 and even devs staretd getting the early prototypes now.
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I like how the writer in wired article asked: is that a microphone? And he talked after about the voice assitant. this is what I hoped for: an integrated microphone in the DS5 so everyone could use voice chats in games and not just 1% of players, also this could be used even in SP gameplay and devs could target their games with it.
From the description of DualShock 5, this will be like the HD rumble from Switch + the trigger rumble from Xbox One.
I don't know how this would be possible to be felt on some surrounding pieces of plastic envelopping the inner rumble motors unless it's this:
Is this a hint about the toucpad being replaced by a touch screen for that to happen? If so, the devs should be made aware of this and start developing their games based on it. I don't think Sony wants to reveal all their cards at once, they just revealed some features of DS5 and even devs staretd getting the early prototypes now.
That, I imagine, would be something involving backwards compatibility. Presumably it downclocks to match the timing that lets games not patched particularly for the PS5 to still work, since like 98% of all games released this gen aren't going to get patches.
RT h/w has to be close to the main processing cores because of how it functions. A "third party RT solution" would have to be integrated inside the multiprocessor and all caches, LDS units and memory controllers would have to be tuned accordingly. Chances of AMD integrating a 3rd party RT h/w inside their Navi CUs are essentially zero (and nobody else would be able to do this) - unless what they have planned for RDNA2's RT is that 3rd party solution - but in this case we're back to both APUs having the same RT solution - a 3rd party one in this case.
The biggest difference in RT we can expect is down to how many RT "units" each APU will have, how much cache they will have, what the memory bandwidths difference will be. The architecture itself will most definitely be the same, with some very minor variations.
Right, but there was a specific leak about the PS5 CPU having two modes (either a 1.6Ghz or 2.13Ghz mode and a 3.2Ghz mode).
I don't understand the discussion around clock speeds. The new CPU is so different, why would they need to match the clock speed?
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