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How much money are you willing to pay for a next generation console?

  • Up to $199

    Votes: 33 1.5%
  • Up to $299

    Votes: 48 2.2%
  • Up to $399

    Votes: 318 14.4%
  • Up to $499

    Votes: 1,060 48.0%
  • Up to $599

    Votes: 449 20.3%
  • Up to $699

    Votes: 100 4.5%
  • I will pay anything!

    Votes: 202 9.1%

  • Total voters
    2,210
Status
Not open for further replies.

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
It was a different time, PC games like HL2, Crysis or Doom 3 were built as PC exclusives (even though most of them got Console ports later). Today everything is built as consoles first, if you would have built an AAA PC exclusive in 2018, it would have been way above anything the consoles can do. But no one makes AAA PC exclusives these days anymore.

Thats one of the reasons it feels like the CPU doesn't matter in PC gaming anymore, because for years games have been built for Jaguar and unlike the GPU, the CPU jobs don't scale (much) when you crank up the graphical settings.

Not to mention that biggest PC games these days are F2P and MMO stuff (League of Legends,Fortnite,WoW etc.) and they are made to run on toaster.
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
2,594
I have strong conviction that this new gen is going to play catchup with having the following features that the previous gen just couldn't do (despite the custom 1st party game engines): 16x anisotropic filtering -- yay!, full 4k resolution that eliminates the need for any kind of fancy reconstruction, faster loading times with much larger levels, much higher FPS other than the 30FPS cap, higher end graphics features like better shadows, more shadow casting lights, more animation, etc.. To me, that's a much more realistic expectation.

While that is going on, the PC games will move the goalposts a little further with RTX while the consoles will start to get a taste of it for the next-next-gen

And like I said to you before, PC enthusiasts have had that same "strong conviction" every generation. They have yet to be right. Every gen has produced spectacular and often technical boundary pushing games on relatively "weak" hardware.

If I showed someone of a similar persuasion to yourself games like God of War, The Last of Us 2, Horizon, Ghost of Tushima, Red Dead 2 etc when the PS4 specs were announced I would have been told it was impossible for such good looking games to be running on such "weak" hardware. Mid to low tier GPU, tablet/netbook CPU I would have been told. I would have been told how the PS4 is only playing "catch up" to mid tier 2013 PCs, and should expect games like that. Just as you are telling me the same about the next gen. We can come back to this when the first Naughty Dog game is released on PS5 and we can see how the new consoles are "only playing catch up" etc.

I do find it interesting you are writing off the RTX capabilities of the new consoles without even knowing a single thing about them.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
And like I said to you before, PC enthusiasts have had that same "strong conviction" every generation. They have yet to be right. Every gen has produced spectacular and often technical boundary pushing games on relatively "weak" hardware.

If I showed someone of a similar persuasion to yourself games like God of War, The Last of Us 2, Horizon, Ghost of Tushima, Red Dead 2 etc when the PS4 specs were announced I would have been told it was impossible for such good looking games to be running on such "weak" hardware. Mid to low tier GPU, tablet/netbook CPU I would have been told. I would have been told how the PS4 is only playing "catch up" to mid tier 2013 PCs, and should expect games like that. Just as you are telling me the same about the next gen. We can come back to this when the first Naughty Dog game is released on PS5 and we can see how the new consoles are "only playing catch up" etc.

I do find it interesting you are writing off the RTX capabilities of the new consoles without even knowing a single thing about them.

Don't think you will have to wait until the next ND game .
In terms of exclusive HZD2 should give us a good first peek at next gen.
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
Even if you build a AAA exclusive for PC you not going to be way above consoles unless you target the high - very high end only.
That even harder now to do thanks to mid gen upgrades ( only talking about gpus )and has even less of chance of happening.
Funny enough the big AAA PC exclusive SC that would not be able to run on consoles will be possible next gen lol.
You could have had a game targeting much higher specs than PS4, even PS4 Pro, in 2018 if it was financially viable like it was 15 years ago. These days publishers see 5 million copies as a failure, back then 1 million was overwhelmingly successful so you could make a game built for 2-3 years old PCs. Current gen consoles are so weak that even taking the 970GTX and a Haswell i5 (both midrange 2014 parts) as a minimum requirement would have been far beyond anything current consoles can do.

Not to mention that biggest PC games these days are F2P and MMO stuff (League of Legends,Fortnite,WoW etc.) and they are made to run on toaster.
I miss the old days :)
 
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DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
Next-gen always looks amazing because games have been built for a 5-7-year-old tech for years, so obviously they present a huge jump. When PS4 launched games have been built for 8 years for a 0.2TF GPU and 0.5GB of memory, so obviously the new games will look amazing in comparison. So I'm not sure why would someone think that next-gen will be just PS4 games in higher res or something. We are transitioning from 5GB of 170GB/s memory to ~16GB of ~550GB/s memory. We are moving to ~x5 more powerful CPU and ~x8 more powerful GPU and on top of that, an SSD which is a solution to a problem consoles suffered from since they've adopted CD-ROMs in the 90s. On top of all of that, we are getting freaking ray-tracing, in a freaking console. How is that not exciting? In what world will that not present a new standard in gaming in every way possible?
 

Laver

Banned
Mar 30, 2018
2,654
And like I said to you before, PC enthusiasts have had that same "strong conviction" every generation. They have yet to be right. Every gen has produced spectacular and often technical boundary pushing games on relatively "weak" hardware.

If I showed someone of a similar persuasion to yourself games like God of War, The Last of Us 2, Horizon, Ghost of Tushima, Red Dead 2 etc when the PS4 specs were announced I would have been told it was impossible for such good looking games to be running on such "weak" hardware. Mid to low tier GPU, tablet/netbook CPU I would have been told. I would have been told how the PS4 is only playing "catch up" to mid tier 2013 PCs, and should expect games like that. Just as you are telling me the same about the next gen. We can come back to this when the first Naughty Dog game is released on PS5 and we can see how the new consoles are "only playing catch up" etc.

I do find it interesting you are writing off the RTX capabilities of the new consoles without even knowing a single thing about them.
Those games you listed look great, but all the points he made still stand - these games are 30fps, sub-4k, often have poor texture filtering, long loading times.
 
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RevengeTaken

Banned
Aug 12, 2018
1,711
Next-gen always looks amazing because games have been built for a 5-7-year-old tech for years, so obviously they present a huge jump. When PS4 launched games have been built for 8 years for a 0.2TF GPU and 0.5GB of memory, so obviously the new games will look amazing in comparison. So I'm not sure why would someone think that next-gen will be just PS4 games in higher res or something. We are transitioning from 5GB of 170GB/s memory to ~16GB of ~550GB/s memory. We are moving to ~x5 more powerful CPU and ~x8 more powerful GPU and on top of that, an SSD which is a solution to a problem consoles suffered from since they've adopted CD-ROMs in the 90s. On top of all of that, we are getting freaking ray-tracing, in a freaking console. How is that not exciting? In what world will that not present a new standard in gaming in every way possible?
Yeah i expect next gen Death Stranding to be on par with this easily!
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,516
Chicagoland
Graphics like that should be possible in a 1st or 2nd generation game made from the ground up on PS6 (2027) so something that releases 2029 -2031. Yeah, in 10-12 years.
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
With the 2Ghz clock that flute has shown us, my expectations are ~5700XT, maybe just a tiny bit higher. I have a feeling it's going to be an underclocked 5800, whatever that will be, probably 10+ TF or so which is way above the 1080GTX (which is 5% weaker than the RX 5700).
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,246
Heh... A new console generation is what brings new rendering tech to all platforms, including PCs. A few games on PC might have those features before that, but they become standard when cross-platform games hit targeting the new consoles.

If the new consoles don't meet your arbitrary resolution/fps/whatever standards, aren't you going to drop the thousands of dollars you were going to drop on new PC hardware anyway? What does it matter whether or not the new consoles manage to give you the experience you weren't planning to get on them all along? What is the point of this argument?

Just a smidge faster than gtx 1080. Exactly what I was expecting with an absolute baseline of gtx 1070.
lol
 

Putty

Double Eleven
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
929
Middlesbrough
Before the beginning of last gen, we had random comments from the big architects of graphics engines like Carmack, Sweeney, etc.. Despite these "clues" about next gen, people ignored them and continued with the wishful thinking. Once they were released and time got over the initial "perceived" hype, gamers realized how weak the hardware really was. This warranted possibly going back to the drawing board (or even more likely the devs complained and Sony/MS began development on stronger hardware).

Game dev kits always ship with beefed up PCs that are available only on big spenders. The kits are used to iterate on subsystem kernels, bus speeds, memory architecture, etc.. The game engines are designed around the HOST hardware and ported to the TARGET platform. If you want to get an idea of the best case scenario of hardware on the next-gen platforms, look at the highest end PCs.

The games that came out like UC, Horizon, RDR, TLoU2, BF5, Gears, etc.. all still had known rendering limitations hence still relying on baked rendering pipelines. There is no amount of speed from a CPU, SSD or 64Gig of RAM that's going to make games that use RTX a viable alternative to the built-in performance of the dedicated hardware supporting RTX.

It seems to me from reading the threads that many are putting all their hopes on the larger RAM, faster HDD access, and beefier CPU as the way to bridge the gap to getting next-gen visuals that compare to RTX. I'm sorry but this is simply never ever going to be the case. A faster streaming memory subsystem for pulling in assets quicker to show the city of Spiderman isn't next-gen. The developer would have been able to do that on a current PC. I have strong conviction that this new gen is going to play catchup with having the following features that the previous gen just couldn't do (despite the custom 1st party game engines): 16x anisotropic filtering -- yay!, full 4k resolution that eliminates the need for any kind of fancy reconstruction, faster loading times with much larger levels, much higher FPS other than the 30FPS cap, higher end graphics features like better shadows, more shadow casting lights, more animation, etc.. To me, that's a much more realistic expectation.

While that is going on, the PC games will move the goalposts a little further with RTX while the consoles will start to get a taste of it for the next-next-gen.

Hardware is always the limiting factor for production.. never ever will it be the algorithms or the art.

Good lord!
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
2,594
Don't think you will have to wait until the next ND game .
In terms of exclusive HZD2 should give us a good first peek at next gen.

Oh I know, it's just the usual concern trolling regarding the power of the new consoles by PC fanboys we get at the start of every generation makes me chuckle. You would think they would learn, but they don't.

Next-gen always looks amazing because games have been built for a 5-7-year-old tech for years, so obviously they present a huge jump. When PS4 launched games have been built for 8 years for a 0.2TF GPU and 0.5GB of memory, so obviously the new games will look amazing in comparison. So I'm not sure why would someone think that next-gen will be just PS4 games in higher res or something. We are transitioning from 5GB of 170GB/s memory to ~16GB of ~550GB/s memory. We are moving to ~x5 more powerful CPU and ~x8 more powerful GPU and on top of that, an SSD which is a solution to a problem consoles suffered from since they've adopted CD-ROMs in the 90s. On top of all of that, we are getting freaking ray-tracing, in a freaking console. How is that not exciting? In what world will that not present a new standard in gaming in every way possible?

Most people know why we get these concern posts, and it's really more an issue with the people making them than the realities of console hardware being "inferior". There is nothing to be concerned about, and next gen games are not simply going to be current gen games at 4K with better texture filtering or whatever. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that, and history has demonstrated it every time these discussions have come up.

Those games you listed look great, but all the points he made still stand - these games are 30fps, sub-4k, often have poor texture filtering, long loading times.

But they aren't PS3 games with higher resolution and better texture filtering. Which is his argument. They are also games which, on a technical level, he almost certainly would have claimed would never be possible on the hardware when it was announced - and would have similar "concerns". I mean, how could a mid-low tier 2013 GPU and 2013 tablet CPU produce games like TLOU2 or Red Dead?

I don't see why anyone would be concerned that next gen games aren't going to be a big leap, or believe they will simply be current gen games with a few bells and whistles added on. PC fanboys make these claims at the start of every generation. They're proven wrong every generation. Nothing new or interesting to be seen or discussed here.
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
I mean, how could a mid-low tier 2013 GPU and 2013 tablet CPU produce games like TLOU2 or Red Dead?
Well, if you have an order of magnitude power leap from the previous gen, tablet CPU or not, it's going to run the most impressive games around :)

I mean yeah, the PS4 had a low range GPU compared to PC in 2013 and only 5GB of RAM and VRAM but still, that's an order of magnitude better than the PS3 so obviously we got much better-looking games even after the x2.25 resolution bump to 1080p. And the same goes for next-gen, games are going to look amazing because they are built around a much more powerful system, even if some PC gamers will have a 25TF 3080ti when the PS5 launches.

I love my 2080RTX but it doesn't mean much when games are made for a 1.8TF console. New generation == new baseline which is amazing for everyone, PC gamers included. We will just play these games on our PCs in native 4K 60fps with lots of RT effects and write condescending posts in forums :)
 

laxu

Member
Nov 26, 2017
2,782
Next-gen always looks amazing because games have been built for a 5-7-year-old tech for years, so obviously they present a huge jump. When PS4 launched games have been built for 8 years for a 0.2TF GPU and 0.5GB of memory, so obviously the new games will look amazing in comparison. So I'm not sure why would someone think that next-gen will be just PS4 games in higher res or something. We are transitioning from 5GB of 170GB/s memory to ~16GB of ~550GB/s memory. We are moving to ~x5 more powerful CPU and ~x8 more powerful GPU and on top of that, an SSD which is a solution to a problem consoles suffered from since they've adopted CD-ROMs in the 90s. On top of all of that, we are getting freaking ray-tracing, in a freaking console. How is that not exciting? In what world will that not present a new standard in gaming in every way possible?

I'm still doubting the raytracing will be anything more than "it can do raytracing" rather than "it does raytracing in a meaningful way" when the current top of the line Nvidia GPUs struggle with it. I would be glad to be proven wrong. The biggest improvements we can hope for will be in lighting. It's amazing how big a difference raytracing does for that by making everything look more grounded and real. The issue with increasing graphics detail is more on the art and programming department rather than the hardware. Games are already costly to make with the level of detail you see in say Last of Us 2, Horizon or God of War. Having more horsepower isn't going to immediately change that and just adding more polygons to characters isn't going to do much.

We will see less "slowly crawling through whatever because the level needs to load" sections and more seamless transitions between areas so hopefully less "you went through a door, no going back" type level design. I have no doubt developers will be able to get amazing looking visuals out of the hardware but at the same time I feel people who mostly play on consoles always have inflated expectations for the next gen hardware.

Some of the absolute best looking games this gen are on consoles so I expect that to continue in next gen too. I just wish that does not mean we are back to 30 fps because it's a bit miserable.
 

Jonnax

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,920
I feel like I'm in the minority when I say I'm unimpressed by Ray tracing.

It just feels like an extra slider or switch that you enable on a pc game to make you go "woah my money is well spent"

I feel like things like instant load times are a generational leap.
Or the idea of creating a world which isn't possible on an older console because of mechanical detail.

Of course those kinds of experiences are going to be late next gen.

But fancy lights? I mean perhaps someone could convince me but I saw that Watch dogs legion RTX trailer Nvidia put out and was just confused.
 

melodiousmowl

Member
Jan 14, 2018
3,774
CT
I feel like I'm in the minority when I say I'm unimpressed by Ray tracing.

It just feels like an extra slider or switch that you enable on a pc game to make you go "woah my money is well spent"

I feel like things like instant load times are a generational leap.
Or the idea of creating a world which isn't possible on an older console because of mechanical detail.

Of course those kinds of experiences are going to be late next gen.

But fancy lights? I mean perhaps someone could convince me but I saw that Watch dogs legion RTX trailer Nvidia put out and was just confused.

if devs had access 100% to rt it would cut a huge chunk off dev times pre baking lighting etc.

even small rt features will take some of that burden away, with the upshot of more room for creativity in lighting, and better looking graphics.

how devs use it is another thing, but come on, that minecraft rt demo was insane
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,930
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
But still, the CPU was so weak that you couldn't find anything for desktop at that power level in stores in 2013.I mean, they went really cheap on the CPU, it was kinda sad.

They just moved the job to the GPU, doesn't make me feel better for the current gen CPU :)
The one thing about porting things to the GPU that I always was upset with people seeing it has some holy grail kind of thing was that, things could not be universally ported there. If something were ported, it might not be able to then affect game code/ ould misalign with the CPU state of the world (like GPU particles, which are ephemeral and cannot feed back). And that porting something to the GPU means taking up GPU time which could be used all for other things, all to support the weaker CPU.

With Ryzen in the new consoles, I really hope to see a greater emphasis on physics and interesting game simulation, and not just GPU compute driven graphically effects.
I feel like I'm in the minority when I say I'm unimpressed by Ray tracing.

It just feels like an extra slider or switch that you enable on a pc game to make you go "woah my money is well spent"

I feel like things like instant load times are a generational leap.
Or the idea of creating a world which isn't possible on an older console because of mechanical detail.

Of course those kinds of experiences are going to be late next gen.

But fancy lights? I mean perhaps someone could convince me but I saw that Watch dogs legion RTX trailer Nvidia put out and was just confused.
Perhaps you are unimpressed because you just need to inform yourself more? Ray Tracing is not "fancy lights", it is a core way to solve problems of incoherent visibility in rendering. It is a tool, and the tool to make game graphics simulatethe rules of real light physics instead of emulating their effect after the fact. Increasing the dynamism and realism at the same time.
 
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DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
I'm still doubting the raytracing will be anything more than "it can do raytracing" rather than "it does raytracing in a meaningful way" when the current top of the line Nvidia GPUs struggle with it. I would be glad to be proven wrong.
It depends on what you consider a meaningful way. I played Contol on a 2080RTX with 6 RT effects on, one of them was a huge and costly effect (reflections) but there were 5 more effects, smaller and less ray-consuming, that added a lot to the lighting of the game. Take contact shadows, for instance, it's much cheaper to do than exclusive RT shadows but the results are very impressive. With almost no performance hit shadows don't only cast themselves at the physically accurate spot they should be which removes annoying graphical glitches like peter panning and make objects more "present" in the scene, it also means that even the smallest of objects cast shadows - things like pens on desks or even paper folders or nuts and bolts. Current shadowing technics just can't do that, UE4 had shown us that when you pass a certain threshold of shadow map resolution and casting objects count, RT shadows actually perform faster than rasterized shadows which means developers shouldn't even try doing this without RT, it will just be slower. What is next-gen if not the small details and more accurate simulations of reality? If my 2080RTX handled 1440p at ~30fps with all six RT effects, I'm sure the PS5 can handle a few of them.

Ray-tracing is important, casting rays into a scene is something game developers have been doing for years for all kinds of reasons but the RTX revolution gets us from a few thousand rays to the millions and developers can do a lot with that. Even if games won't use full "RT effects", they will use these millions of rays for fixing artifacts and improving the accuracy of rasterized effects. Think of it as a tool in their toolbox so even if they don't use it in order to do one big RT effect like reflection, they will still use it to prevent GI light leaks, make more accurate DOF, physics, hit detection, etc.

I feel like I'm in the minority when I say I'm unimpressed by Ray tracing.

It just feels like an extra slider or switch that you enable on a pc game to make you go "woah my money is well spent"

I feel like things like instant load times are a generational leap.
Or the idea of creating a world which isn't possible on an older console because of mechanical detail.

Of course those kinds of experiences are going to be late next gen.

But fancy lights? I mean perhaps someone could convince me but I saw that Watch dogs legion RTX trailer Nvidia put out and was just confused.
You really need to play Control with RT on :)

With Ryzen in the new consoles, I really hope to see a greater emphasis on physics and interesting game simulation, and not just GPU compute driven graphically effects.
Amen to that, I'm still waiting for the real Crackdown 3, the one that lets us level building in pursuit of bosses :)
 
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Firmus_Anguis

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,110
The one thing about porting things to the GPU that I always was upset with people seeing it has some holy grail kind of thing was that, things could not be universally ported there. If something were ported, it might not be able to then affect game code/ ould misalign with the CPU state of the world (like GPU particles, which are ephemeral and cannot feed back). And that porting something to the GPU means taking up GPU time which could be used all for other things, all to support the weaker CPU.

With Ryzen in the new consoles, I really hope to see a greater emphasis on physics and interesting game simulation, and not just GPU compute driven graphically effects.
I'm sure you've been reading this thread - What's your take on the rumors floating around?

2 GHz GPU on PS5? Hardware-accelerated raytracing on both next-gen consoles; both of them aiming for double-digit TF-numbers etc.

Whilst the transition from the PS3 to the PS4 wasn't massive when looking at the CPU, the GPU and x16 RAM were the two things standing out. With that in mind, the current generation has still yielded some very impressive results.

The leap this time around seems to be gigantic by comparison though.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
I'm sure you've been reading this thread - What's your take on the rumors floating around?

2 GHz GPU on PS5? Hardware-accelerated raytracing on both next-gen consoles; both of them aiming for double-digit TF-numbers etc.

Whilst the transition from the PS3 to the PS4 wasn't massive when looking at the CPU, the GPU and x16 RAM were the two things standing out. With that in mind, the current generation has still yielded some very impressive results.

The leap this time around seems to be gigantic by comparison though.



I think people always forget one important matter when it comes to that: The jump in resolution (4 times) is also bigger than ever.
 
Jan 21, 2019
2,902
I feel like I'm in the minority when I say I'm unimpressed by Ray tracing.

It just feels like an extra slider or switch that you enable on a pc game to make you go "woah my money is well spent"

I feel like things like instant load times are a generational leap.
Or the idea of creating a world which isn't possible on an older console because of mechanical detail.

Of course those kinds of experiences are going to be late next gen.

But fancy lights? I mean perhaps someone could convince me but I saw that Watch dogs legion RTX trailer Nvidia put out and was just confused.

That's because right now, they are sliders and nothing more. They are add-ons not integral to the pipeline. But next gen, as every platform will have RT you will see much better integration that can't just be turned off. It will be the new PBR. Can you turn PBR off in current games? No it is integral to the entire visual makeup of the game, it has to be there or everything will fall apart. The same will happen with RT and we will see much cooler implementations than we are seeing now. Remember any implementation now is made for a small PC niche, it's not a huge market like consoles.

EDIT: I am not trying to downplay what the few devs working on RT in their games have achieved, it's great and it shows the benefits, but the real jump will come when millions of people have RT capable hardware, not just a few PC gamers with a 2060 upwards.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
I feel like I'm in the minority when I say I'm unimpressed by Ray tracing.

It just feels like an extra slider or switch that you enable on a pc game to make you go "woah my money is well spent"

I feel like things like instant load times are a generational leap.
Or the idea of creating a world which isn't possible on an older console because of mechanical detail.

Of course those kinds of experiences are going to be late next gen.

But fancy lights? I mean perhaps someone could convince me but I saw that Watch dogs legion RTX trailer Nvidia put out and was just confused.
It's not just pretty lights. It can create new gameplay elements, and eventually ease the burden on artists as they can get rid of more and more render based techniques and baked assets.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,483
With Ryzen in the new consoles, I really hope to see a greater emphasis on physics and interesting game simulation, and not just GPU compute driven graphically effects.

This x1000. I love me some awesome graphics, but man do I want to see some true innovation and push forward in these areas this next generation. As an Xbox fan I am hoping that they have some hardware support in Scarlett for Havok physics acceleration.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
It depends on what you consider a meaningful way. I played Contol on a 2080RTX with 6 RT effects on, one of them was a huge and costly effect (reflections) but there were 5 more effects, smaller and less ray-consuming, that added a lot to the lighting of the game. Take contact shadows, for instance, it's much cheaper to do than exclusive RT shadows but the results are very impressive. With almost no performance hit shadows don't only cast themselves at the physically accurate spot they should be which removes annoying graphical glitches like peter panning and make objects more "present" in the scene, it also means that even the smallest of objects cast shadows - things like pens on desks or even paper folders or nuts and bolts. What is next-gen if not the small details and more accurate simulations of reality? If my 2080RTX handled 1440p at over 30fps with all six RT effects, I'm sure the PS5 can handle a few of them.

Ray-tracing is important, casting rays into a scene is something game developers have been doing for years for all kinds of reasons but the RTX revolution gets us from a few thousand rays to the millions and developers can do a lot with that. Even if games won't use "RT effects", they will use these millions of rays for fixing artifacts and improving the accuracy of rasterized effects. Think of it as a tool in their toolbox so even if they don't use it in order to do one big RT effect like reflection, they will still use it to prevent GI light leaks, make more accurate DOF, physics, hit detection, etc.


You really need to play Control with RT on :)

I think for some things because we get them in steps it becomes less impressive to certain people .
With RT for lighting we still have a good while to go but by the time we get fully there lighting will already be so good.
Still all of this will be great for devs.

EDIT i should note i expect things to be impressive when next gen comes.
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
I think people always forget one important matter when it comes to that: The jump in resolution (4 times) is also bigger than ever.
Image reconstruction is here to stay. I don't see developers throwing away half of the GPU just in order to push native resolution which is crazy high anyway. We shouldn't slave ourselves to 4K just because TV makers who decided to skip over 1440p right to 4K :)

You should always remember that the higher the FPS, the better image reconstruction looks. I can see a lot of developers going for image reconstructed 4K at 60FPS over native 4K at 30FPS.
I think for some things because we get them in steps it becomes less impressive to certain people .
With RT for lighting we still have a good while to go but by the time we get fully there lighting will already be so good.
Still all of this will be great for devs.
I think Control is a pretty good case for RT, even though my 2080RTX can hardly keep up :)
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
Image reconstruction is here to stay. I don't see developers throwing away half of the GPU just in order to push native resolution which is crazy high anyway. We shouldn't slave ourselves to 4K just because TV makers who decided to skip over 1440p right to 4K :)

You should always remember that the higher the FPS, the better image reconstruction looks. I can see a lot of developers going for image reconstructed 4K at 60FPS over native 4K at 30FPS.

I think Control is a pretty good case for RT, even though my 2080RTX can hardly keep up :)

Well, the native resolution is what dictate the resolution we should aim for.
 

Terbinator

Member
Oct 29, 2017
10,226
I'd love for Ubisoft to have ray-tracing core to the next Splinter Cell where this is an actual light/visability scale in play and not just a cone or within X unit of the AI before you're detected. It would be incredible.

Seeing enemies reflected in windows/mirrors, yourself to the enemy etc.
 

ppn7

Member
May 4, 2019
740
Hey guys, do you think Sony will finally make 1440p output ? Because i'm considering to buy 1080p 144Hz currently and later 4K monitor. No TV at all.
But if i can use 1440p with PS4 slim 1080p with black bars, maybe i just need a 1440p directly.
Knowing that probably lot of game will still run under 4K next gen, 1440p seems a sweet spot?
 
Nov 11, 2017
1,583
Software
Hey guys, do you think Sony will finally make 1440p output ? Because i'm considering to buy 1080p 144Hz currently and later 4K monitor. No TV at all.
But if i can use 1440p with PS4 slim 1080p with black bars, maybe i just need a 1440p directly.
Knowing that probably lot of game will still run under 4K next gen, 1440p seems a sweet spot?

I have been wondering the same. We'll have to wait and see. XB1X already supports 1440p so i am hopeful.


Hopefully next gen will be a platform with different options. As in you'll be able to chose what kind of gaming experience you want. 4k30 (with all bells&whistles), 4k60fps (downgraded), or Full HD/1440p/60 fps (with all bells&whistles)
 
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Laver

Banned
Mar 30, 2018
2,654
But they aren't PS3 games with higher resolution and better texture filtering. Which is his argument. They are also games which, on a technical level, he almost certainly would have claimed would never be possible on the hardware when it was announced - and would have similar "concerns". I mean, how could a mid-low tier 2013 GPU and 2013 tablet CPU produce games like TLOU2 or Red Dead?

I don't see why anyone would be concerned that next gen games aren't going to be a big leap, or believe they will simply be current gen games with a few bells and whistles added on. PC fanboys make these claims at the start of every generation. They're proven wrong every generation. Nothing new or interesting to be seen or discussed here.
I agree, the new consoles are going to be significantly more powerful and are going to allow paradigm shifts in many aspects. Still, it would be good if developers made sure that 60fps is standard and the image quality is flawless before making advancements over what we have on PC at the moment. Blurry, unfiltered textures or 30fps with dips should not be tolerated on the new machines anymore.
 
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