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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
- Start date
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I don't understand,
But interesting article u posted.
Which was from March 2018, maybe by Nov 2020 gddr6 will be as cheap as gddr5.
Given how much money they make on selling new controllers where is the incentive for BC?
Given ps4 controller is on Bluetooth 2.1 (based on my search), they could upgrade it to 5.0 and make some changes (USB C, bigger battery, better build quality and slightly different look) and have a fair argument for it. That would be a fairly big upgrade and improved Bluetooth standard would make a case for new controllers only (I'm actually looking forward to seeing next gen wireless headphones designed for a much newer Bluetooth spec).
The incentive is "for the gamers"
And ms will let xbox one controllers work with scarlett.
It's little things like this that build up.
You were doing great until you said 24GB GDDR6. Its not even just the rice, its if that much RAM is even needed in the system.
You were doing good until you said everything... We could get a system like what you described for $350.
And that was for 1GB GDDR6 chips. These consoles will almost certainly use 2GB chips, for which in the firs year or two or so would carry a price premium over their 1GB counterparts.
With Bluetooth 5 is there scope for allowing more connections? I just want Bluetooth audio, and Sony could support all the HD audio Aptx Codecs and the like and make it highly compatible with their industry leading headphones like the XM3s. I just want that. Enough of the proprietary PS headphones using dongles.
I would be OK with 16gb gddr6 for games only.
But I've already explained why 24gddr6 is plausible, the contrary arguments are empty.
16gb @448gbps is good.
But devs have had no problem filling 9gb @326gbps on the X1X, and that's with current gen games.
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Yeah, I think if they need to have highly cuatom on board storage then 1TB is the sweet spot (at least for first half of the gen until we maybe see a Pro revision or something). 1TB is enough for everyone, enough for a few big games. Let us use fast external storage to swap games between the two when required. It's the best solution and one everyone will understand how to use since we already have a similar system right now on PS4. So long as the solution is available day one like I hope all PS4 OS features are as well. PS5 really should just be a continuation of the OS, no need to start from scratch there.
Im just dropping in to say I enjoy reading all the speculation. I can't wait for PS5 and I have a savings going for it and a new PC - I just wish next gen specs were finally locked down so I know how I want to build the PC, lol
I wonder how a PC with a 3700x, 2080, 16gb ram will play next gen exclusives like Elder scrolls 6 if its 4k @30fps on PS5 + scarlett.
My guess is it'll run it with a higher Framerate, or at higher fidelity, like high or ultra settings vs medium on console or something like that. Maybe better raytracing as well.
If they push the CPU, it will be impossible to run at 60 fps with this configuration from GPU point of view probably better settings...
This is a take. So to sum you up:
- Digital Foundry aren't real journalists
- They're XBOX Fanboys
Lol
Not what I was implying.
Anyway I'd wager a guaranteed first spec coverage (or similar) at the given time is on the cards for them, and I think it's with Sony.
What has been revealed thus far hasn't been from multiple sources, so they would be less likely to comment without checking their own sources, but perhaps they can't.
If a flood of people had said yep that's a dev kit I have one here's a pic, they would have covered it.
By the way, Lockhart was a real concept.
I think it is better to stay quiet and wait the officiel specs, anyone can come on top coming from what Klee, Matt and Andrew Reiner told...
I don't see 24GB Ram tbh. Yes I'm arm chairing but why do we need that much memory when a 2080 Ti has 11GB and is vastly more powerful? We also have PCIE 4 SSDs now and compression tech has gotten significantly better and the Ryzen 3 supports it.
I'm still set on my specs from a year ago:
499.99 USD
Ryzen 3700 (8 core no HT) 3.2Ghz no boost clocks
5700XT + (custom tweaks) 1.8Ghz no boost or smart overclocking.
16GB GDDR6
1TB PCIE 4 NVME SSD (user upgradable, 5+GB reads/writes)
Dual Shock 4 (improved battery/build quality)
Same GUI/OS as PS4 (iOS model)
WiFi 6, BT 5.0, HDMI 2.1 (VRR, HDR, 8k support)
PSVR2 built in connections
It's simple, cost effective and powerful with a huge focus on I/O. Provides easy backwards compatibility to PS4 and allows easy Pro version in the future.
I'm still set on my specs from a year ago:
499.99 USD
Ryzen 3700 (8 core no HT) 3.2Ghz no boost clocks
5700XT + (custom tweaks) 1.8Ghz no boost or smart overclocking.
16GB GDDR6
1TB PCIE 4 NVME SSD (user upgradable, 5+GB reads/writes)
Dual Shock 4 (improved battery/build quality)
Same GUI/OS as PS4 (iOS model)
WiFi 6, BT 5.0, HDMI 2.1 (VRR, HDR, 8k support)
PSVR2 built in connections
It's simple, cost effective and powerful with a huge focus on I/O. Provides easy backwards compatibility to PS4 and allows easy Pro version in the future.
Unless the next xbox is called the Surface Box!!! And will be getting newer SKUs every 18-24 months.
I agree. Thats where my predictions lie too. Only addition I would make though s that I believe there will be at least 4GB of LPDDR3/4 or DDR4 RAM in their too reserved for the OS. So the whole system ends up with 20GB of total RAM.
I don't see how they ship with 16GB of total RAM and still take out like 4GB for the OS leaving 12GB total to be shared between the CPU and GPU. That will be flat out stupid and short sighted on their part as that results in only ~2x boost in usable game RAM compared to last gen (5GB to 12GB) and yet we are looking at consoles aiming to push 4x the rez and a slew of next gen assets.
16GB dedicated to game RAM at least gives us 3x+ the RAM compared to this gen.
They clearly have an exclusive with one or both of the console manufacturers. They must think the clicks that will generate would far surpass the clicks on some random article about a rumor.
It sucks for us since they are pretty much the only tech focused publication for consoles but at the end of the day it's about business. Richard isn't giving up ad revenue because of some blind loyalty towards Xbox.
P.s its also possible ms personally told him they were going to increase the tflops count. He would look silly of he went on record now and it turned out to be incorrect.
The Oberon leak shows that the current ps5 devkits might not even have the final clock speeds.
I don't think they will have it tbh, I think it'll be shared. They will probably have a 1/2GB additional for standby features like they have now.
I dunno I'm probably wrong on that point but I really feel like Cerny will be using the same approach as PS4. I don't see why we need a full 16GB of ram for a 5700XT level card. It doesn't make sense even if we think every game would be native 4K which they won't be.
If it has it great, I'm obviously hoping for it but I'm thinking about it in terms of necessity.
Yikes, 1/10 of retail pricing? Those corporations be robbing us blind!
Console RAM isn't just for the GPU. It's shared between the CPU and GPU. We need a big enough pool for both. Granted I think if we get 16gb for games that should be fine. Haven't heard any devs complaining about RAM this gen and the SSD will make storing extra data less necessary. I imagine the RAM spec on paper won't be particularly impressive but should be enough based on dev feedback.
I agree, Cerny will use the same approach as he did with the PS4. But that ties into my point. On the PS4 the "background RAM" was 256MB. On the Pro it was 1GB. It makes perfect sense that that gets bumped up to 3/4GB. And if that is the case then thats enough RAM to handle all of the OS and take only like 1GB "vRAM" from the GDDR6 pool for the OS. Meaning that rather than taking 4GB of expensive (faster than needed) GDDR6 RAM for the OS alone they would be taking only like 1GB. With the rest of the OS sitting on the slower (and cheaper) DDR4 RAM.
Seems like the all round smarter play.
And you keep talking about the RAM and saying 5700XT. First of the console isn't only using that RAM for the GPU. Its for the GPU and CPU. Secondly, a console isn't like a PC where you can just buy more RAM and beef up your system, whatever they put in those consoles they will be stuck with for the next 7yrs. They have to put in enough RAM to future proof it for the games that will be made in 2025.
PS4 had a 7850-7870 level GPU and came with 8 GB, while these GPUs came with 2 GB on PC. Before PS4 specs were announced many people on boards like this were convinced that it would come with 4 GB and that it would be enough. Needless to say, they were wrong.
If we were to apply the same metric to PS5, it'd need to have 32 GB.
I also feel like people are too convinced that the SSD will solve most RAM related issues, much like back in the PS4 days when there was a lot of talk about the "GPGPU" and that consoles wouldn't need a strong CPU anymore; because GPU compute would take over all the computationally intensive tasks that were traditionally solved on CPU before. It didn't work out like that.
In my opinion (not a game developer, but heard some dev talk), less than 24 GBs for the new consoles would be disappointing. Even 24 GB will not be plenty.
Minus that RAM used for system and that games did not use all of that RAM for the GPU - about 3 or 3.5 to the GPU probably per game.
So it was not a whole metric higher than PC GPUs at the time!
*whistles* Have you seen that purported PS5 dev kit? What do you think.....The real deal?
We are throwing out RAM related numbers here but the crucial question is what is consensus for (average) USABLE RAM expectation from the major developers. They are the ones who will be making the game and so they would know best.
As such, I am surprised that there has been not one leak talking about "expectations" for RAM from anyone notable from the industry. Makes me wonder if they adjusted their requirements subsequent to being informed about the specs of the SSD (if that even matters).
As such, I am surprised that there has been not one leak talking about "expectations" for RAM from anyone notable from the industry. Makes me wonder if they adjusted their requirements subsequent to being informed about the specs of the SSD (if that even matters).
The opinion of devs matter more to me too. If they are satisfied with what they get, we good. The multiplier over last gen doesn't matter.
Let's hope so. No screen or wireless charging or whatever else was suggested. I wouldn't even be surprised if they choose not to use USB C.
And yet Sony needed a third party dev to tell them that if they dont go with 8GB its all over.
Where is the first party advice?
I wonder how different these devices will be. Like I don't suspect either will introduce a new controller
That sounds pretty much it, although i wouldn't rule out some more memory (4GB DDR4?) for OS purposes.
Also please, let's change the GUI/OS, i really would like something new and fresh.
But the same will be true for next gen, even if the OS footprint doesn't grow that much anymore.
At least 4 GB will be reserved for the OS, and an average of at least 4 GB should be calculated for CPU related work (and that's a conservative estimation).
The post I was replying to implicates 16 GB RAM total for the console if I don't misunderstand, which in turn would leave just 8 GB for GPU purposes.
Another point to consider:
The reason current graphics cards on PC come with the amount of RAM they do isn't because more RAM wouldn't be beneficial if games were developed from the ground up. It's because RAM has become relatively expensive, and because the current base line on consoles is relatively low (like you said, maybe 3 or 3.5 GB). Next gen should be about rising that base considerably.
Play go asks the developer to mark the blocks needed in order start the game and play for an x amount of time. For a fresh game it's pretty simple and doesn't ask much from the developer other than some QA and in Microsoft's case it's actually done automatically using ML with the FastStart project.
Thing is, if the system can loads and offloads games automatically from the SSD, the OS has no idea what data it needs in order to resume an ongoing game. If developers know the player is starting a new game, it's easy. But play go and FastStart don't support resuming an ongoing game, just a fresh install.
In order to make such a system, you need to know what data blocks are needed at each point of the game and right now no OS support it. It also requires a lot from developers unless you have an ML system like FastStart in place.
Just don't complain if it takes a while for features to show up because of the new and fresh OS. :P
Ugh, that's the huge counterpoint i guess...
I'm just very sick of looking at the PS4 OS lol
You need at least 10tflops RDNA + 3700x CPU class and 20GB memory to render PS4 like graphics in native 4K and stable 60 frame per second!
you don't need a set of specs for that, you just need the platform holder not certifying your games if they don't hit a solid 60 fps.
I Guess i dont understand your point. Are you saying something with Nintendo 64 specs could run 60 fps? All games have minimum spec requirements
The answer is there is no minimum, There will always be some games that target 30fps.
A PC. Every game could be 60fps on a base PS4 if the devs prioritized that.
I highly doubt big jumps on Sony's part. The first game I'm gonna test is Nioh since it has a high rez high framerate mode and it will show if the BC actually improves it. If so, it should run at 4k60fps.
Next game I'm gonna test is Bloodborne because of the loading times.
A great thing about the SSD is that switching games will be a bliss. Right now, I would love to do a picture project like collecting screenshots from video game NPC from all games I have but there is no way it hell I'm gonna do endure the torture of switching between 40 games just to take a screenshot.
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