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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Futures just opened a couple hours ago, and oh boy is this gonna be a fun week
Wireless charging on the top sides would be a nice touch.
that would be a completely pointless feature. If you are using it you can't play an charge simultaneously, and if you are going to have to drop your controller on a console to charge you might as well just plug it in via usb and at least be able to game and charge simultaneously.
Performance - Not really. Although, the Butterfly Effect is now fully engaged, and with both systems about a year out, I imagine there is some last-minute adjustments going on so who knows where everyone lands now. Similar to the 4gb/8gb upgrade in Gen 8, and the 256/512 upgrade in Gen7, I'm guessing developer feedback to both platforms will generate some kinds of change. My information is now well over a year old and I have no pulse on how development is going. So I'll be as surprised as anyone else is - even more surprised if it stays the same!
Tariffs - Absolutely assuming they stick. Political landscape is so strange right now, and even if there was an administration change in 2020 I doubt that anything will get fixed in time for the launches. So let's see what happens once the Tariffs take effect that will be a better gauge on how the platform holders will react. My bet is everything gets a lot more expensive.
I was aware there were going to be inherent performance benefits over the existing chips so that the TFLOPS would not be 1:1 with current gen. I was not aware of the details, but it was expected.
However, I'm dubious of these 40% performance increase numbers that are being mentioned, on fundamentally compatible architecture. Seems like something that maybe happens in a benchmark, but these systems need to be silicon compatible with the past generations so it seems a stretch we're going to see that level of performance increase unless you're including Ray Tracing in the calculation.
That said, I feel like I've always trended towards pessimistic in these threads, so I'll be happy to be wrong.
The benchmarks already prove you wrong. RDNA is a new architecture while still being compatible with GCN...the die space of 1 CU of RDNA is larger than that of GCN
Never underestimate the utter lack of perspective about issues outside of gaming here.
The compatibility is served by the GPU Instruction Set Architecture. On a hardware level, however, RDNA's scheduling and cache performance VASTLY outperforms GCN. Just as the poster above me mentions, the transistor budget per compute unit is much higher, so the performance increase "per flop" isn't just speculation or hearsay, it's baked into the hardware itself and displayed in the many benchmarks using real games for the two RDNA desktop PC cards available at the moment.
I think your pessimism on this point is somewhat unwarranted.
Awesome. I'll be curious to see how this manifests itself when devs start coding specifically for it.
Good references to see these benchmarks? I'm interested to readup.
Digital Foundry has a great article showing the performance of the two Navi GPU's available now, the 5700 and 5700XT. The former is largely a match for the RTX 2060 Super while the latter is a match for the 2070 in most games. Here's the link: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-review-head-to-head-with-nvidia-super?page=6
reviews do seem to show a good step forward -until those I would also have tended to err on the side of caution with manufacturer published numbers
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Thx for response, no, I just compared rx5700(7.5tf) to vega64(12.56tf) performance
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If we non-americans would suffer then a 10-20% is doable I guess for a gamer? We are talking about from 499 USD to 549 if 10% or 599 if 20%
I predicted 599$ a couple of weeks ago in my post in this thread so I'm still expecting that and below that is just a nice surprise. We can forget 399$ and if Sony scores that I'll be very very impressed. Microsoft have always been keen on releasing their consoles for 499$ so it will probably be that excluding the extra tariffs.
Have seen other posts in this thread about Sony and MS release their console above 399$ nobody would buy. There are plenty of alternatives to sell a console to the mass market and especially in the US. One is a payment plan and I've read MS already have that in place in the US? Another could be a reduced price if the customer signed up on a three year Xbox Ultimate or PS + Premium plan. Of course it's easier to have these kind of alternative payment plants in the US. In Europe that would be a bureaucratic nightmare as there are 45 countries here lol.
I never understand these comments, this is a gaming forum...that's the prism almost everything is viewed through.
For me gaming and this forum is a way of escapism, so I don't get them either.
My homeland has bigger issues than Trump or the tariffs l, but I don't come here to discuss them.
On topic, of course tariffs will be a big issue going forward if they make the consoles 20% more expensive...
A $500 premium sku sold at $600 would be very problematic, but so would an underpowered $400 SKU sold at $500, specially for the early adopters
So they might just as well go for the premium model and hope the hardcore save the first year.
Another aspect of the tariffs is that they will also affect the Pro/X models, and the slim ones, plus the future superslim ones.
Very funny but maybe the problem is coming from mixing raytraced shadows and normal maps. Dictator No idea if the perceived downgrade comes from this...
Sampling against geometry normals
I am writing a basic raytracer and have implemented normal maps. However, when using normal maps, sometimes the rays generated are opposite to the surface's geometry normal, so that the rays are re...
computergraphics.stackexchange.com
Only solution
Heh. This comes from comments under the video where people explicitly wrote how "shadows disappear" with RT on in some scenes, when in reality, they are still there, but have contact hardening so they terminate gradually. I think people are arrested to fake looks in VG rendering at times, like how cubemaps make surfaces decidedly less reflective than they really are.
People are pulling figure from different GPU sources. If you base it on comparisons with VEGA 64, even the RX 5700 is faster in some cases.
If you base it on RX 580, which is 6.2 Tflops, RX 5700XT is slightly less than 2 times faster. Heck, I see some people saying it's on par with a 14Tflops GCN GPU... When it's on average 10% slower than Radeon VII which is 13.8Tflops.
I think the ones I've seen bring up the 14TF number are basing it on a 10+TF RDNA gpu, not the 5700 cards.
Regardless, nailing a conversion ratio based on flops isn't realistic.
my RDNA to previous architecture comparison comes from a test that compared the rx 590 clocked at 1500MHz (in the middle between base clock and boost clock) compared to the rx 5700 also clocked at 1500MHZ (again a bit above the base clock), and both of those GPUs have 36 active compute units (so same TF with the same configuration), according to multiple game tests, the RX 5700 performed 39% faster than the RX 590 although they share clock speed and amount of compute units. while its true that this is not a perfect test as its not accounting for memory bandwidth constraints, i think the test is the closest we can get to comparing RDNA1 IPC compared to Ploaris IPC.
Ok this another problem I talk about linked to normal maps and raytraced shadows...
EDIT: Irregular shadow maps or raytraced shadows. It will be an interesting choice next generation...
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Not to mention that the PS5 will have a greater increase in memory bandwidth over the PS4 than what you see with those cards anyway.
Those 40% are RDNA vs Polaris. It references a couple of tests that were made by computerbase.de with a normalized setup for the compared PC GPUs and the average performance gain they found in the games tested. By no means the most accurate testing but a very good indication what you already capable to achieve with current games not optimized for RDNA yet. The test also confirmed AMD's released numbers of having a 1.25 times better IPC than their Vega architecture.
One thing that did bother me with the shadows implementation in CoD was, indeed, that sometimes the light sources weren't nearly proportionally big enough (i.e. angular size, size vs distance, yadda yadda) to get the extreme softening they are getting.
Yep, it depands to what amd gpu you compare, bigger with big number of cu's are less effective and more bandwidth dependant
Other posters have already made the points well with links, but the takeaways are this:
- Equalized for Compute Unit count, RDNA spends almost double the transistors Polaris does
- A lot of this is beefing up the cache hierarchy, making sure the units always have the data they need, boosting efficiency. Less units are sitting idle for the same workloads.
- RDNA can now process wave32/SIMD32 and wave64( for back compat). It can now retire instructions once every cycle instead of every four cycles. This, along with the memory boosts, means its converging with Nvidia architectures. Navi is very similar to Pascal compared to GCN.
It's like when we were closing in on current gen people would have claimed that next gen would look like Assassin's Creed 3 on ultra, when AC Odyssey looks like it comes from another universe.
Even the best looking current gen game on pc will not come close to what Xbox and PS5 exclusives will pull off especially after 2 years (and pc versions of most AAA games).
To be honest, I even expect launch titles to be insane considering the SSD and CPU jump. I can't wait for Cerny to showcase Knack 3. :D
4x jump in CPU over X, 2 times graphics, and 50+ times jump in storage speeds... If someone told me any of that a year ago, I would've slapped them.
Knack 3, with fully ray traced reflections on each and every one of the zillions of pieces that Knack is made out of. Can't wait for it.
This is not like Xbox One X or PS4 Pro version are the base of current gen games. I think improvement on resolution and IQ side will looks like less impressive because of midgen but everything else will looks like a generation leap and the comparison will be with base PS4 and Xbox One.
Same things vector code is more than that on CPU side(x8).
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lmao. they arent going to go with a smaller die, start removing cooling, bottleneck their entire system with less ram or fewer RT cores. Especially since these tarrifs will only affect U.S sales. just build those consoles elsewhere.
There is a good chance trump wont be president come launch either. Do we know if the tarrifs have actually increased the cost of electronics in recent months? I havent heard of any price increases for iPhones, smartphones, cameras and TVs. granted they have a bigger markup than consoles, but sony makes most of their money from royalties, ps+ subs and the psn store anyway.
bdesides, trump isnt stupid. he isnt going to have this tarrif war going on come election season next year. i expect this to calm down by June of next year.
There is a good chance trump wont be president come launch either. Do we know if the tarrifs have actually increased the cost of electronics in recent months? I havent heard of any price increases for iPhones, smartphones, cameras and TVs. granted they have a bigger markup than consoles, but sony makes most of their money from royalties, ps+ subs and the psn store anyway.
bdesides, trump isnt stupid. he isnt going to have this tarrif war going on come election season next year. i expect this to calm down by June of next year.
I couldn't disagree more. He'll continue his stupid trade war and he'll try to pin it on others (democrats).
Noone knows what will happen...over the weekend his stance was much softer over at the G7 in Biarritz, but that's because he's just a bully and the other presidents stood up to him. Congrats to Macron on that.
But today or tomorrow things could change, now that he's back home and feels safe.
If I had to guess though the tariffs would launch the world into a recession and a stock crash of between 30-40%. I don't think he wanna do that. Regarding the election I think he'll win. He'll find something else to blame on the foreigners.
But today or tomorrow things could change, now that he's back home and feels safe.
If I had to guess though the tariffs would launch the world into a recession and a stock crash of between 30-40%. I don't think he wanna do that. Regarding the election I think he'll win. He'll find something else to blame on the foreigners.
Somthing liker an 8 core zen 2, 16gb gddr6 4gb ddr4 for os, a GPU with RX5700 + RT hardware at rtx2060 level and a NVMe ssd will have great great synergies together.
I will be very happy if we get something like that
I will be very happy if we get something like that
We at least know that sony has put an arm hip in their consoles before and DDR3 ram. Based on that I am hoping that they go with an arm chip with 4-6GB of LPDDR4 RAM all in one package for the OS exclusively. Then the APU with GDDR6 RAM will be exclusively for games.
Yeah, from his blog, he's using some self-developed implementation of voxelized RT with some help from screen-space stuff.
But will the ARM CPu be enough for the OS? Wouldn't be better to allocate one core of Ryzen to the OS instead?
Whatever they do I hope we get a minimum of 16gb gddr6 or HBM2 or 3 for games.
This gen is shackled too 5gb @ about 150gbps,
16gb @ about 500gbps, I think will enable devs to do new and great things combined with the CPU, gpu + sdd we talk about here.
Arm CPUs run Android comfortably nowaday. There is no reason it can't run a freebsd with a basic gui.
ARM CPUs have advanced miles since 2013 consoles. 32-> 64 bit and probably 2.5x IPC or greater. Snapdragon running real Windows now.
And Android runs like hell regardless of the phone or TV or device and the OS on PS4 and PS4 Pro, just like Android, tend run slower after many updates and medium period of use. Who todl you the PS5 OS won't be more demanding?
We run out so quickly of system memory when opening few interent pages on PS4 and PS4 Pro, let alone while gaming, using Youtube app and spotify app, this gonna be a nightmare.
I hope whetever configuration they will allocate to the OS, it will be fine enough.
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Yeah I thought the same thing too.....until I tried Destiny 2 on PC this weekend in it's 60 FPS glory. Even the "X" is significantly out dated because of it's shitty CPU. I'll be a day 1 Scarlet buyer no matter what the cost.
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