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How much money are you willing to pay for a next generation console?

  • Up to $199

    Votes: 33 1.5%
  • Up to $299

    Votes: 48 2.2%
  • Up to $399

    Votes: 318 14.4%
  • Up to $499

    Votes: 1,060 48.0%
  • Up to $599

    Votes: 449 20.3%
  • Up to $699

    Votes: 100 4.5%
  • I will pay anything!

    Votes: 202 9.1%

  • Total voters
    2,210
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PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,576
I completely agree with you about Lockhart and this coming gen.

No 4-6 TF lowest common denominator to worry about.

Both nextgen consoles are almost certainly going to have 10+ TF GPUs, 3+ GHz 8C, 16T Zen 2 CPUs (with less L3 Cache).
Super fast SSDs, changing how everything works as far as loading and running., and incredible potential for games designed in new ways using FAR faster streaming.
Not to even mention raytracing.

Well like you said, both consoles will have super fast SSD, both will have HW RT, greta GPUs and CPUs. All devs will try to conceive their games based on those hardware elements, this would allow for seamless streaming gameplay with no pop-ins or loadings, and RT may become even astandard. If something that gonna happen is that PC and PC gamers need to accomodate to those changes and with the upcoming games that will require those elements and not the opposite.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
The one thing I hope we can all agree on is that both consoles hit it out of the gate. These dogshit 1.3 / 1.8 Teraflop albatrosses will totally kill the leap in fidelity these machines are capable
 

sncvsrtoip

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
2,773
The one thing I hope we can all agree on is that both consoles hit it out of the gate. These dogshit 1.3 / 1.8 Teraflop albatrosses will totally kill the leap in fidelity these machines are capable
Gpu wasn't maybe highed but still huge leap comparing to x360 and ps3 also ram was huge leap. Jaguar was a bummer.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,576
The one thing I hope we can all agree on is that both consoles hit it out of the gate. These dogshit 1.3 / 1.8 Teraflop albatrosses will totally kill the leap in fidelity these machines are capable

You know you are been ungrateful to those veteran consoles my friend. Look what has been achieved on both right now.
It doesn't matter if the next-gen consoles will be such a big leap, some will always cry that they won't be enough for their overweening ambitions (or that they are not that skilled from the start and they always want more more power because they can't optimise their games :p).
In the end we will get very amazing games regardless of the hardwares.
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
sncvsrtoip

giphy.gif
 

sncvsrtoip

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
2,773
Colbert I know that for you comparing performance of two cards clock the same but one with 1.55x more bandwidth is great source of knowledge but I would rather keep with better standards ;)
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
Colbert I know that for you comparing performance two cards clock the same but one with 1.55x more bandwidth is great source of knowledge for you but I would rather keep too better standards ;)

Vega is more bandwidth dependent than Navi or Nvidia Card, RDNA use delta color compression everywhere it is possible like Nvidia GPUs... If you compare Vega against Vega it is ok but comparing with Navi it is not ok to take account of the bandwidth...

You introduce a bias...
 

sncvsrtoip

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
2,773
Vega is more bandwidth dependent than Navi or Nvidia Card, RDNA use delta color compression everywhere it is possible like Nvidia GPUs... If you compare Vega against Vega it is ok but comparing with Navi it is not ok to take account of the bandwidth...

You introduce a bias...
I know it's bandwidth dependent, my interpolation also showed it:
9.2tf navi is like
14.6tf vega64
13.4tf vega56
11.87tf radeon vii
11.52tf rx 580
radeon vii is also vega but with huuuuge bandwidth. Rx580 has better per per vat than vega because it has much less cu's 36 vs 56 vs 64
 
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Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
The one thing I hope we can all agree on is that both consoles hit it out of the gate. These dogshit 1.3 / 1.8 Teraflop albatrosses will totally kill the leap in fidelity these machines are capable

In no universe was 1.8TF considered dogshit for a console releasing in 2013. The vast majority of games on the system are 1080p and still manage to look great 6 years after.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
I know it's bandwidth dependent, my interpolation also showed it:
9.2tf navi is like
14.6tf vega64
13.4tf vega56
11.87tf radeon vii
radeon vii is also vega but with huuuuge bandwidth

I am not very convinced, I think all this comparison between flop is not very interesting at the end the truth is which GPU performs better than the other and 5700 and 5700 XT are pretty good AMD GPU compared to Nvidia this is better than Vega but they continue to lag behind NVIDIA GPU... Even if RDNA 2 is only RDNA 1 + RT + VRS at 7nm+, the high-end Navi GPU will destroy Radeon 7... They will be able to compete against 2080 TI but will be crushed by a future Ampere GPU at 7nm EUV...

Better delta compression, better culling, better cache organisation, and CU occupation than Vega...
 

sncvsrtoip

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
2,773
I am not very convinced, I think all this comparison between flop is not very interesting at the end the truth is which GPU performs better than the other and 5700 and 5700 XT are pretty good AMD GPU compared to Nvidia this is better than Vega but they continue to lag behind NVIDIA GPU... Even if RDNA 2 is only RDNA 1 + RT + VRS at 7nm+, the high-end Navi GPU will destroy Radeon 7... They will be able to compete against 2080 TI but will be crushed by a future Ampere GPU at 7nm EUV...

Better delta compression, better culling, better cache organisation, and CU occupation than Vega...
So? Nvidia was never candidate for serious consoles, it's rather important info for pc master race funs ;)
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
I completely agree with you about Lockhart and this coming gen.

No 4-6 TF lowest common denominator to worry about.

Both nextgen consoles are almost certainly going to have 10+ TF GPUs, 3+ GHz 8C, 16T Zen 2 CPUs (with less L3 Cache).
Super fast SSDs, changing how everything works as far as loading and running., and incredible potential for games designed in new ways using FAR faster streaming.
Not to even mention raytracing.

This lowest common denominator talk does get tiresome.
I'm sure a PC with a ryzen 3600x and a rx590 will be able to play next gen games at 1080p and some reduced settings just fine.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
So? Nvidia was never candidate for serious consoles, it's rather important info for pc master race funs ;)

And even 10-10.5 Tflops next-generation GPU but using 7nm+ TSMC will mostly just be the result of the better process node. If we have more maybe there is an improvement into RDNA 2...

Imo there is nothing extraordinary to be more than 10 Tflops, more than 11, I would find it interesting...
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,576
This lowest common denominator talk does get tiresome.
I'm sure a PC with a ryzen 3600x and a rx590 will be able to play next gen games at 1080p and some reduced settings just fine.

They you didn't get the whole concept of that i explained before. It's not just few pixels or effects or FPS that we gonna lose but sometimes a whole concept of a game that gets dumbed down or gimped or scrapped. The mid-gen console mostly helped in the increase of FPS, resolution and effects but if those were the default consoles, things could have been much betetr and we would have seen games no one could have imagined. instead of just pure eyecandy or gimmicks, let alone a new gen with completely new architecture and hardware parts.
 

sncvsrtoip

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
2,773
And even 10-10.5 Tflops next-generation GPU but using 7nm+ TSMC will mostly just be the result of the better process node. If we have more maybe there is an improvement into RDNA 2...

Imo there is nothing extraordinary to be more than 10 Tflops, more than 11, I would find it interesting...
Still it seems both sony and microsoft try to put highest what amd can deliver so props for both companies.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
I wonder what it will be like if one is

11tflop RDNA 250Ray tracing cores

And the other is

8.7tflop RDNA 650 Ray tracing cores

That would be fun.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,576
Wow Mathew whole twitter account no longer exists not just his tweet. I hope he ddin't get into troubles. This confirms that stuff is 100% true.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
They you didn't get the whole concept of that i explained before. It's not just few pixels or effects or FPS that we gonna lose but sometimes a whole concept of a game that gets dumbed down or gimped or scrapped. The mid-gen console mostly helped in the increase of FPS, resolution and effects but if those were the default consoles, things could have been much betetr and we would have seen games no one could have imagined. instead of just pure eyecandy or gimmicks, let alone a new gen with completely new architecture and hardware parts.

What you are talking about is determined by the CPU, ram, gpu feature set.
But let's just wait, I bet nearly all games run on a PC @1080p + some reduced settings on GPU with half the performance of a PS5 GPU.

Next gen is also more ideal for a lower powered console because there will probably be a focus on 4k
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,576
What you are talking about is determined by the CPU, ram, gpu feature set.
But let's just wait, I bet nearly all games run on a PC @1080p + some reduced settings on GPU with half the performance of a PS5 GPU.

Next gen is also more ideal for a lower powered console because there will probably be a focus on 4k

I used this example bro and there will be otehr examples. Sometimes graphics aren't just here to look pretty but also to be part of the gameplay. For example this game requires RTX cards only because the whole concept of the game is based on offscreen indirect shadows and reflections thus requring RTX. Read my posts here: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...oise-and-hot-air.129193/page-61#post-23164981

RT focuses on displaying indirect shadows and refelctions of things not displayed on screen. Imagine a stealth game like MGS where the core mechanic of the game is that you spot enemies that are hiding behind obstacles by only seeing their offscreen reflectiosn or shadows and vice versa they can detect you that way so you have to avoid exposing your shadows and reflections to them, this implying the ray-traced AI too and also ray-traced sounds that bounce everywhere.

You can not shape such gameplays based on low specced hardwares or missing the hardware parts to allow it.
That is what I meany by such hardwares, new horizons of gameplay are opened and not just eye candy results that you can turn off.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
I think it a little harsh if he got something more serious than a ticking off....

I mean from how he just calmly tweeted he saw the dev kit around the office in reply to a Metro article suggests there was no malice here. I mean do artists need/get access to dev kits and sign NDAs?
 

RevengeTaken

Banned
Aug 12, 2018
1,711
I know it's bandwidth dependent, my interpolation also showed it:
9.2tf navi is like
14.6tf vega64
13.4tf vega56
11.87tf radeon vii
11.52tf rx 580
radeon vii is also vega but with huuuuge bandwidth. Rx580 has better per per vat than vega because it has much less cu's 36 vs 56 vs 64
can you do the same with 11.2tflops navi?
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,576


damn ninja'ed.

Its really Brazil's fault lol.

Omg. The guy has been in the business for 27 years too. Hope he didn't lose his job.

It got sucked into one of those five million vents in the devkit.

Damn :(
Hope he's allright

No wonder that ND artist withdrew his wteet too about HW RT for PS5 and claimed it was just his assumptions eventhough that info is not something lethal and logically expected from the PS5.
 
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nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
I think it a little harsh if he got something more serious than a ticking off....

I mean from how he just calmly tweeted he saw the dev kit around the office in reply to a Metro article suggests there was no malice here. I mean do artists need/get access to dev kits and sign NDAs?

The NDA will apply to the whole studio, and it's up to management to ensure the whole staff adhere to it.
 

Florin4k4

Banned
Mar 18, 2019
516
I keep reading how having an ssd next gen will totaly open up how games will be made.
So with both next gen consoles having SSDs, how will multiplat games that are also on pc be developed?
Can they make a game that is built around the ssd performance of the consoles for PC a pc with a HDD or will having an ssd be a "minimum requirements" thing?
 
Dec 31, 2017
1,430
I keep reading how having an ssd next gen will totaly open up how games will be made.
So with both next gen consoles having SSDs, how will multiplat games that are also on pc be developed?
Can they make a game that is built around the ssd performance of the consoles for PC a pc with a HDD or will having an ssd be a "minimum requirements" thing?

They definitely could. Honestly, I don't know anyone who's built a pc in the last 5 years without an ssd so it shouldn't be a problem imo.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
No wonder that ND artist withdrew his wteet too about HW RT for PS5 and claimed it was just his assumptions eventhough that info is not something lethal and logically expected from the PS5.

Or a reason Kleegamefan is not giving more. I was thinking this before he said he knows more but he can't say more. People need to understand they can take legal action against him and ask him to give his source. And he is not a journalist anymore and can't legally protect his source... He said the maximum he can safely talk about...
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
I used this example bro and there will be otehr examples. Sometimes graphics aren't just here to look pretty but also to be part of the gameplay. For example this game requires RTX cards only because the whole concept of the game is based on offscreen indirect shadows and reflections thus requring RTX. Read my posts here: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...oise-and-hot-air.129193/page-61#post-23164981

RT focuses on displaying indirect shadows and refelctions of things not displayed on screen. Imagine a stealth game like MGS where the core mechanic of the game is that you spot enemies that are hiding behind obstacles by only seeing their offscreen reflectiosn or shadows and vice versa they can detect you that way so you have to avoid exposing your shadows and reflections to them, this implying the ray-traced AI too and also ray-traced sounds that bounce everywhere.

You can not shape such gameplays based on low specced hardwares or missing the hardware parts to allow it.
That is what I meany by such hardwares, new horizons of gameplay are opened and not just eye candy results that you can turn off.

Yes I said "same gpu feature set"
My point is resolution does determine gpu raw power requirements.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,576

Patent

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jul 2, 2018
1,621
North Carolina
Or a reason Kleegamefan is not giving more. I was thinking this before he said he knows more but he can't say more. People need to understand they can take legal action against him and ask he gave his source. And he is not journalist anymore and can't legally protect his source... He said the maximum he can say...
it is pretty silly risking your job to give strangers info then those strangers also attack you, if i had inside info id keep my mouth shut
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
RX 5700 and RX 5700XT overclocking potential:


"So far, in regards to reference style AMD Radeon RX 5700 series video cards, overclocking is not a game-changer. In fact, it doesn't really get you a lot, yet it demands a whole lot. The Radeon RX 5700 isn't as bad, it runs cooler, and doesn't eat up as much power. However, it also doesn't overclock very far and has the least amount of potential right now. It also requires you to run the fan at a very loud noise level.

The Radeon RX 5700 XT seems like the video card with the most potential. However, it is going to require a much better cooling heatsink/fan unit on it to be able to push it to those level and be able to live with the noise level. Ultimately even at +50 Power Limit, we are still being held back on-board power, and boy does that climb through the roof when overvolting."

Hmm,i dunno,this really doesn't sound very promising about that 2GHz Oberon clock.

cc Colbert , anexanhume
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,145
Wow Mathew whole twitter account no longer exists not just his tweet. I hope he ddin't get into troubles. This confirms that stuff is 100% true.

All he did was say it's a dev kit, which was more or less public knowledge at the time because of the ps4 dev kit patent and the new ps5 dev kit patent, and that dev kits were out there, which Cerny already told us.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
The NDA will apply to the whole studio, and it's up to management to ensure the whole staff adhere to it.

Again I personally find that hard to imagine but then the idea of NDAs outside state secret stuff I've never understood. In this case he just commented on images a newspaper tweeted. I would also like to think a 27 year veteran would know whatever rules are in the place he works so it is a little surprising all round.

I just hope his punishment was only to delete his Twitter (or it was self imposed).
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Omg. The guy has been in the business for 27 years too. Hope he didn't lose his job.
if he nuked his twitter account then that means he's likely still employed. thats his punishment and compromise for keeping his job. he broke an NDA. thats not a fireable offense. especially for senior leads like him.

if he was fired, he would be under no obligation to delete his twitter.
 
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