Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

[BitsandBytes]

But..
Didn't Matt say Sony was ready to launch in 2019, their specs were locked down but suddenly decided to wait till a 2020 launch?
But... if Generation 1 Hybrid NAVI does NOT have Raytracing and next years 2020 NAVI does.., unless they decided to (impossibly) go back to the drawing board and make (impossible) critical and major changes in such short amount of time, it doesn't make any sense Cerny would say in April 2019 they will have Raytracing and launch in 2020.

Matt seemed so certain they could have launched in 2019 and simply delayed it to 2020 for a reason unknown to us.

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Matt said 2019 was the plan for a long time but plans can change. He hasn't elaborated on how, when or even if a "delay" was a real thing and I'm guessing we'll probably never know now.

I also remember finalflame saying they had a pretty good reason to believe it'd release in H2 2019 but of course things could shift.

Whatever the case is I do still think if it was planned for late 2019 and is now late 2020 then it must have been a substantial issue with hardware or a big internal shift to move release by a full year.

 

[III-V]

Matt has brought balance to the force.

Hopefully some of this fanboy warring will simmer down now.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Can't wait for the insanely quick turnaround some folks will have on their opinion of Matt in a few minutes.

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It's been a joy over the years to watch the Xbox crowd flip-flop whether they like Darkwing Matt or not. It happens so quickly as well.

 

[Vroadstar]

Why is it important to some if one console is powerful over the other? Is it bragging rights or fanboy fuel only?

 

[OnPorpoise]

But... if Generation 1 Hybrid NAVI does NOT have Raytracing and next years 2020 NAVI does.., unless they decided to (impossibly) go back to the drawing board and make (impossible) critical and major changes in such short amount of time, it doesn't make any sense Cerny would say in April 2019 they will have Raytracing and launch in 2020.

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Sony hired AMD to work on semi-custom designs, it's totally in the realm of possibility they opted for a mix of tech that doesn't exactly match any retail product, so next year's HW RT is still well within the realm of possibility.

Just for reference, the 360 had an early version of unified shaders, so there is already precedent for upcoming technology to be used in the console space before it makes it's way to the retail side.

 

[Remo Williams]

Im just trying to tell what he said exactly.
Just listen on youtube last 5min.

https://youtu.be/nPttE_fvjZM

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What he said exactly? You're hearing things that are literally not there. When asked about any "upgrade parties", Todd says that Sony have already talked about their loading/streaming stuff, and he refrains from divulging any new info. No mention of "PlayStation speed" or anything like that. But thanks for the link, I missed this episode.

 

[MrKlaw]

Why is it important to some if one console is powerful over the other? Is it bragging rights or fanboy fuel only?

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Apparently if one box is the equivalent of an extra NES more powerful, everyone in the world will buy that one for all multiplatform games and the other box is doomed.

 

[M.Bluth]

Why is it important to some if one console is powerful over the other? Is it bragging rights or fanboy fuel only?

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I don't know, especially since they're buying their preferred brand's box anyway.

This is why the best version of this thread is an enthusiastic discussion of all the possible tech and dev technique that we could see next gen instead of spec prediction wars with arbitrary deltas between the two.

 

[Wonderbrah]

Im just trying to tell what he said exactly.
Just listen on youtube last 5min.

https://youtu.be/nPttE_fvjZM

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yeah i didn't get that at all. he just said both consoles are doing the right things`, that;s literally it. I have no idea how you got ps4 is going to be better out of it

 

[MrKlaw]

I don't know, especially since they're buying their preferred brand's box anyway.

This is why the best version of this thread is an enthusiastic discussion of all the possible tech and dev technique that we could see next gen instead of spec prediction wars with arbitrary deltas between the two.

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That'd be lovely. Is such a thing even possible.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

Based on the results of Liabe Brave 's measurements I have updated my GPU Layout Analyzer with GPU and SOC die size estimations. The estimations don't contain RT HW support because we don't know the implementation (yet). But the estimation should give us a good view what to expect at a minimum from a die size perspective.

It should be mentioned based on the results The Dream can be become true!
Used values are linked to my prediction but the model can calculate results based on other memory interface widths.

Also stealth edited my prediction to adapt and add the additional information.

Disclaimer: These are approximations and there is no claim that I am exact here. The SOC size also does not contain audio and RT parts.

 

[Melchiah]

Why is it important to some if one console is powerful over the other? Is it bragging rights or fanboy fuel only?

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Since it appears to be more important to the XB faithful, at least based on the meltdowns, I think it's about two things; being bitter about how this gen began, and dreading the possibility of it happening again, secondly, as it seems unlikely the XB platform could sell more worldwide (without PS3 level blunders), it's the only "victory" they can hold on to. The latter also applies to the cheering of studio acquisitions, while maintaining that they'd be anti-consumer in Sony's case.

 

[bcatwilly]

Since it appears to be more important to the XB faithful, at least based on the meltdowns, I think it's about two things; being bitter about how this gen began, and dreading the possibility of it happening again, secondly, as it seems unlikely the XB platform could sell more worldwide (without PS3 level blunders), it's the only "victory" they can hold on to. The latter also applies to the cheering of studio acquisitions, while maintaining that they'd be anti-consumer in Sony's case.

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No generalizing and platform warring on display here, lol.

 

[III-V]

I don't know, especially since they're buying their preferred brand's box anyway.

This is why the best version of this thread is an enthusiastic discussion of all the possible tech and dev technique that we could see next gen instead of spec prediction wars with arbitrary deltas between the two.

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this guy gets it

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Since it appears to be more important to the XB faithful, at least based on the meltdowns, I think it's about two things; being bitter about how this gen began, and dreading the possibility of it happening again, secondly, as it seems unlikely the XB platform could sell more worldwide (without PS3 level blunders), it's the only "victory" they can hold on to. The latter also applies to the cheering of studio acquisitions, while maintaining that they'd be anti-consumer in Sony's case.

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[Fastidioso]

No. It means current specs are very close (<10%) and Matt expects MS will overclock Scarlett enough to be just above PS5.

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What a stupid thing to do. Overclock around 10% the last minute (I don't think we can go far off to it) just to be above the counterpart? What a sad show would be.

 

[Super Barrier]

It's been a joy over the years to watch the Xbox crowd flip-flop whether they like Darkwing Matt or not. It happens so quickly as well.

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Ugh... how do you even respond to this.... As an Xbox fan it's disheartening to see these types of generalizations, and there's a pattern of these types of catty comments. Feels very unwelcome to read this thread.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

People still harrassing Reiner:



And people getting offended that the PS5 may be more powerful?
Is this is the power the internet gives?

 

[Melchiah]

No generalizing and platform warring on display here, lol.

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Curiously, this thread was much more peaceful before next XB was rumored to be less powerful, as stated by others on the thread as well.

Personally, I don't really care, as it didn't bother me when XB and GC were more powerful than PS2, or 360 ran multiplatforms better than PS3. Of course, more power is always better, but it's not a dealbreaker, as I buy the system for a certain type of games.

 

[isahn]

Based on the results of Liabe Brave 's measurements I have updated my GPU Layout Analyzer with GPU and SOC die size estimations. The estimations don't contain RT HW support because we don't know the implementation (yet). But the estimation should give us a good view what to expect at a minimum from a die size perspective.

It should be mentioned based on the results The Dream can be become true!
Used values are linked to my prediction but the model can calculate results based on other memory interface widths.

Also stealth edited my prediction to adapt and add the additional information.

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it seems that 380mm2 would be enough for ~50 CU with hw RT

 

[Heckler456]

People still harrassing Reiner:



And people getting offended that the PS5 may be more powerful?
Is this is the power the internet gives?

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The internet gives a voice to a lot of disenfranchised people.
With that comes the cost of also giving a voice to a lot of people who, in real life, would have probably been told to sit down and shut up a long time ago.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

It seems some people are still more interested in discussing a beaten and dead horse ...

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

The internet gives a voice to a lot of disenfranchised people.
With that comes the cost of also giving a voice to a lot of people who, in real life, would have probably been told to sit down and shut up a long time ago.

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And this is the scary part of the internet.

 

[gremlinz1982]

It seems some people are still more interested in discussing a beaten and dead horse ...

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I you see the potential for either company to come up with the better designed console, then you have made peace.

It is going to be a coin toss. I stated that when Brad Sams said that Microsoft was aiming to have something that could compete with the PS5, and I still believe that today.

 

[Kiekura]

People still harrassing Reiner:



And people getting offended that the PS5 may be more powerful?
Is this is the power the internet gives?

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And then he uses Colt Eastwood as his source to battle against Reiner. Colt is one of the biggest fanboys in YouTube.

 

[Deep Friar]

Now imagine a version of this, where they argue how unnoticeable shorter loading times are.

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I feel like smashing my head against a brick wall everytime I see this, so damn stupid.

 

[anexanhume]

Now imagine a version of this, where they argue how unnoticeable shorter loading times are.

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G1. "I mean, like is anyone really going to sit there with a stop watch?"
G2. "Yeah, I don't think it will make much difference."
G3. "It's actually a bad thing... you know? People use that loading time to go grab a drink or use the bathroom. Now they'll just be cranky."
G4. "Yeah, I could see that negatively affecting the player base's mood. I mean, Phil Spencer just talked about toxicity in the community."
G2. "If anything, SSDs make me less productive. Everything is loading instantly and I'm more easily distracted."
G3. "Total phone culture, yeah."
G1. "I bet you could find a bunch of studies on this. Yup."
G3. "You know, I bet the solutions come out equal once you factor in the speed of cloud streaming differences once you're in game."
G4. "Wow, that's a really good point. So in the end, it probably doesn't even matter. Fanboys getting spun up about nothing. Just enjoy your game."

 

[score01]

I feel like smashing my head against a brick wall everytime I see this, so damn stupid.

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I still cannot believe that was a thing. Are those guys still in the industry? I don't know how anyone could take them seriously again.

I'm glad Matt has calmed the waters somewhat with his educated guess. I don't think there are many people who would disagree that the next Xbox will edge out the next PS performance wise. Though It will be nowhere close to the gulf that has been previously implied by the abandoned 'sandwich' strategy.

 

[Thorrgal]

I don't believe it has been decided for sure.

I'm excited! I think MS has a strong strategy for how to approach he changing market, and I think Sony is going to continue to do well on their path. Sony deciding to largely let MS build their streaming platform for them was a smart move, as MS will do it better than they ever could, and it lets them focus attention and resources on areas they can excel in.

I don't have much faith in Stadia.

Nintendo is doing very well, and that's going to continue, which is great. They occupy a place in the market that otherwise is largely ignored. Plus, they make great games.

The thing I'm most concerned about is industry consolidation. It will continue, and I expect the next five years to have some major players absorbed by competitors. This is bad for consumers and for the thousands of people who will lose their jobs as a result.

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I think industry consolidation is a losing battle on al sectors.

I work in Automation and I started 20y ago in a $0.5M small company from my country, that got bought by a bigger $10M one, then came a $100M UK one, the and $4kM american one and now I work for a $45billion french one, all through acquisitions.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

I think industry consolidation is a losing battle on al sectors.

I work in Automation and I started 20y ago in a $0.5M small company from my country, that got bought by a bigger $10M one, then came a $100M UK one, the and $4kM american one and now I work for a $45billion french on all through acquisitions.

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And most important you survived all of that.

 

[vivftp]

buy a leather (cushioned) chair.
I had the same problem for years until I finally bought one.

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I bought one of these and strapped it to my leather gaming chair. Has done wonders for sustained comfort over very long periods of play.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00HVXQTI6?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

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lol, thank you both :D

 

[DigSCCP]

Now imagine a version of this, where they argue how unnoticeable shorter loading times are.

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"I heard the human body can't even detect the difference between a 1.6s and 2.5s loading" lol

 

[Deep Friar]

I still cannot believe that was a thing. Are those guys still in the industry? I don't know how anyone could take them seriously again.

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I only read/watch IGN on a few select cases, same with Kotaku for Schreier's stuff and at times Polygon. I have no earthly idea if they're still there. Probably, but that's why I mostly listen to Giant Bomb and select YouTube people. It's difficult as is to find good people for gaming news, and IGN and the like ain't it. I mostly go there for quick facts about a game if they're the first link I see.

 

[jroc74]

Like I said, your summary doesnt line up really with the exchange. But people can see for themselves.

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Yeah, that's also old. Never knew about the link tho, was a nice watch.

Main thing he said was it looks like no one will make mistakes out the gate, which is great.

Why is it important to some if one console is powerful over the other? Is it bragging rights or fanboy fuel only?

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Yes.

Matt to the rescue once again, lol.

 

[Detective]

G1. "I mean, like is anyone really going to sit there with a stop watch?"
G2. "Yeah, I don't think it will make much difference."
G3. "It's actually a bad thing... you know? People use that loading time to go grab a drink or use the bathroom. Now they'll just be cranky."
G4. "Yeah, I could see that negatively affecting the player base's mood. I mean, Phil Spencer just talked about toxicity in the community."
G2. "If anything, SSDs make me less productive. Everything is loading instantly and I'm more easily distracted."
G3. "Total phone culture, yeah."
G1. "I bet you could find a bunch of studies on this. Yup."
G3. "You know, I bet the solutions come out equal once you factor in the speed of cloud streaming differences once you're in game."
G4. "Wow, that's a really good point. So in the end, it probably doesn't even matter. Fanboys getting spun up about nothing. Just enjoy your game."

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Please tell me this is a made up joke and they didn't say that !?!

 

[Deleted member 40133]

When Howard says no one made mistakes, from a devs perspective (I'm not one, to be clear) it sounds like there's nothing substantial holding one console back over the other

 

[Nivek]

"I heard the human body can't even detect the difference between a 1.6s and 2.5s loading" lol

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I remember that like it happened yesterday.
They will try to find an angle this time and maybe play down waiting 3 seconds instead of 6 seconds.

 

[Melchiah]

G1. "I mean, like is anyone really going to sit there with a stop watch?"
G2. "Yeah, I don't think it will make much difference."
G3. "It's actually a bad thing... you know? People use that loading time to go grab a drink or use the bathroom. Now they'll just be cranky."
G4. "Yeah, I could see that negatively affecting the player base's mood. I mean, Phil Spencer just talked about toxicity in the community."
G2. "If anything, SSDs make me less productive. Everything is loading instantly and I'm more easily distracted."
G3. "Total phone culture, yeah."
G1. "I bet you could find a bunch of studies on this. Yup."
G3. "You know, I bet the solutions come out equal once you factor in the speed of cloud streaming differences once you're in game."
G4. "Wow, that's a really good point. So in the end, it probably doesn't even matter. Fanboys getting spun up about nothing. Just enjoy your game."

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Reminds me of the good old make-a-sandwich breaks with the PS3's install times.

 

[Socky]

I'm a little behind the current conversation, but reposting my previous post, as it's relevant to console plans changing/timings:

"In the latest Remastered podcast, Shahid Ahmad, ex of Playstation, talks about how fluid console plans are, even late in the process (he's referring to PS4 here). There are no major revelations, but it's fascinating to hear how open to change the whole console plan is, specific hardware like GPU notwithstanding.

He talks about it from 41:00 to 44:00:"

https://www.relay.fm/remaster/76

 

[disco_potato]

Let it go.gif

Regarding the race for the performance crown, anything bigger than a minuscule difference would surprise me.

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What's your definition of miniscule? People here are saying 10-20% would be negligible which I think is odd.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

And then he uses Colt Eastwood as his source to battle against Reiner. Colt is one of the biggest fanboys in YouTube.

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He is debunking Reiner, a trustable source, while claiming he knows more by saying Scarlett will have 12 Core Zen 2 and RDNA 2 while PS5 will have RDNA 1 with no hardware RT...

 

[Deleted member 40133]

What's your definition of miniscule? People here are saying 10-20% would be negligible which I think is odd.

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10-20 is negligible

 

[Thorrgal]

And most important you survived all of that.

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Tbf most of us did as is a field that has seen continuous growth.

And the companies that get automated also keep on growing on staff as well, but I do automation for Chemical industries and Pharma, which are still in need of a skilled workforce, whereas on other sectors like car manufacturing is a different kind of automation and may be more affected by it.

 

[Fastidioso]

10-20 is negligible

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I think it's not even matter of %. Let's say even 30%. What exactly would mean in the real world of performance? I think the major improvement of the X over the Pro it's just the bandwidth (oh and RAM of sure). Otherwise that 40% of more raw power without those , barely would have been visible in the multiplat between the two premium consoles.

 

[Manmademan]

Reminds me of the good old make-a-sandwich breaks with the PS3's install times.

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Or the 15 minute "snake is smoking a cigarette" install breaks MID GAME in MGS4?

 

[Kenjovani]

After the todd howard interview with ign unfiltered i aint budging from the PS5 power camp.

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Link to this please.

I still cannot believe that was a thing. Are those guys still in the industry? I don't know how anyone could take them seriously again.

I'm glad Matt has calmed the waters somewhat with his educated guess. I don't think there are many people who would disagree that the next Xbox will edge out the next PS performance wise. Though It will be nowhere close to the gulf that has been previously implied by the abandoned 'sandwich' strategy.

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I think at least half would disagree or guess differently based on other notable insider rumors. Microsoft fans will think their console will be stronger and Sony fans theres. There is no reason to believe otherwise and it is still in the air. Firstly Matt and Reiner alluded to ps5 dev units being more powerful and all Matt is saying is he "guesses" in the end Anaconda might be more powerful which amounts to nothing. What Microsoft wants and Phil says means nothing in the grand scheme because they aren't CEOs of Sony and Sony are not sitting back on their laurels and will also want most powerful relative to price.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

What's your definition of miniscule? People here are saying 10-20% would be negligible which I think is odd.

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I have it 10% to 15% and i find that negligible .
Of course them having different SSD and RT tech can change stuff but in term of TF don't see that as a big deal.

 

[christocolus]

God I love this gif

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That was also one of the best BB seasons ever.

 

[Bowl0l]

Reminds me of the good old make-a-sandwich breaks with the PS3's install times.

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Or the 15 minute "snake is smoking a cigarette" install breaks MID GAME in MGS4?

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Some games use the loading time to instruct how to play the game like World of FF. I think they will keep the loading screens for the PC community.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Or the 15 minute "snake is smoking a cigarette" install breaks MID GAME in MGS4?

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Such unjustified horrendous everlasting loading time between chapters cuases life shortening more than cigarettes tbh.
Thank God next-gen will have SSDs and fast CPUs.