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What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?

  • GDDR6

    Votes: 566 41.0%
  • GDDR6 + DDR4

    Votes: 540 39.2%
  • HBM2

    Votes: 53 3.8%
  • HBM2 + DDR4

    Votes: 220 16.0%

  • Total voters
    1,379
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Deleted member 18951

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User Banned (1 Week): Platform warring and antagonizing other members
Stupid Xbox fans ruining this thread for everyone else, I suppose the fact that it's about 8 to 1 in their favour it was inevitable, the biggest group shout loudest and all that......


Everyone is as bad as each other, lol.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,844
Implications are even bigger. They could have been planning a high bom console sold at a higher price to break even. But now they're down to one console and either need to power down or take a bigger loss. Some people are missing the implications (others, I don't mean you)



Not as far as I can tell. And those pastebins have served us wonderfully /s
i dont think MS targeted a higher price than 499$, because we had rumors that MS's plan was a 70/30 split for console sales, at 599$ i would think the split would end up more skewed towards lockhart.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,885
Consoles, are again in an even more starkly different situation, because even though they are low margin (or even negative margin) products, production volumes can be in the multiple tens of millions of dice per year for a given chip design. So it's possible they can suffer lower yields to keep relatively tight voltage constraints at the bottom end of the curve, initially to maximise perf/watt (versus an equivalent desktop chip). Also, the same product will be fabbed on the same process for much longer with consoles, so the process operators will have more scope to optimise process parameters to improve yields over time.
Well, yeah, but consoles will likely run on lower clocks too which will lead to both the possibility to lower operational voltage and get higher yields at the same time. It will mean that a Navi GPU in a console APU will show lower IP/s (as in "instructions per second") than a desktop Navi GPU making all comparisons between them moot again.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,219
Except this is a pre-launch speculation thread.
How would hypothetical sales work as ammunition, if we have none?
You sure going to show those PS fans with the future sales of your unconfirmed, unannounced, unpriced Sku....


Furthermore, I didn't make it up, I posted and talked about it a few pages ago.

The people that were supporting of the Lockhart being cancelled explained it was because it would be too stupid a move for MS to consider.
None particularly stricked me as PS fans either, what with the quoting interviews from Xbox execs.


But hey, if you're a PS fan and hope the Lockhart is cancelled, give a holler!
You did make it up, because you clearly don't know their preferences. And of course people in this thread are thinking about future sales numbers.. I've been following this thread long enough that I can tell you that the majority of people pushing the 'Lockhart is canceled' narrative are more interested in the PS5.
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
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Feb 19, 2018
6,095
Could. You know that word?
So how should we know what rumors are baseless and what are not without any details only insiders could know and we can verify after?
One is more powerful is nothing only a insider could potentially know. It's a 50:50 guess literally anyone can make. It's not a real leak with substance.


Remeber project neo?
somehow we got a code name for Ps4 Pro, and white paper that turned out to be correct.

Editor of game Informer, whose job it is to be impartial vs. random insiders who know nothing about ps5 yet claiming Xbox is more powerful and reports who have a vested interest in success of Microsoft
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Could. You know that word?
So how should we know what rumors are baseless and what are not without any details only insiders could know and we can verify after?
One is more powerful is nothing only a insider could potentially know. It's a 50:50 guess literally anyone can make. It's not a real leak with substance.


Remeber project neo?
somehow we got a code name for Ps4 Pro, and white paper that turned out to be correct.
I don't understand how ur reply relates to my response .I said ur assumption about ps5 soc size and release date are nothing but pastebin rumors.u accepted those and now u have issues that those made up rumors don't match with the independent journalists leaks.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,844
Could. You know that word?
So how should we know what rumors are baseless and what are not without any details only insiders could know and we can verify after?
One is more powerful is nothing only a insider could potentially know. It's a 50:50 guess literally anyone can make. It's not a real leak with substance.


Remeber project neo?
somehow we got a code name for Ps4 Pro, and white paper that turned out to be correct.
didnt we get neo's specs in april 2016? that is much closer to launch than we are at right now.
 

Deleted member 1589

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Oct 25, 2017
8,576
You did make it up, because you clearly don't know their preferences. And of course people in this thread are thinking about future sales numbers.. I've been following this thread long enough that I can tell you that the majority of people pushing the 'Lockhart is canceled' narrative are more interested in the PS5.
Wait why?

Really, there were people speculating that Lockhart has at least 6-7 teraflops because they couldnt imagine it being less 'powerful' than the Xbox One X. A lot of these came from Xbox fans.

I'm not sure why it's a narrative that it's a lot of PS5 fans that care that Lockhart is cancelled. Think it's good for Xbox fans more.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
Actually, it's possible MS doesn't need to edge the PS5 in power precisely because only a large gap in power will yield a discernible real-world difference (especially for more casual gamers). It may be that price is really where they need to stake out a competitive advantage.

Granted, that doesn't mean they can get trounced in terms of power, but clawing their way to a 5 or 10% advantage, especially at the expense of driving up the price, may not make a ton of sense. If they can produce exceptional visuals and 3rd party games that are roughly on par with what we see on Sony's console, and couple that with Gamepass and a significantly improved stable of first-party games, MS might have a chance (in the west, at least).
Oh I completely agree. But there is a lot MS stands to gain from being "more powerful". Even if its just 5%. That is something marketing will no doubt push and you will see ads screaming "the worlds most powerful console". It also makes their console be the one reviewers will say "it looks best on Xbox" even if the layman would have to do a 500% zoom to spot a difference on a paused screen.

But yes, like I said in a recent post.... price and the games are actually more important than power.

All I am saying is that if power is all MS is really pushing, then they will fail 'cause it means they still don't know why they gave the PS3 a run for its money.
 

Deleted member 49804

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Nov 21, 2018
1,868
I don't understand how ur reply relates to my response .I said ur assumption about ps5 soc size and release date are nothing but pastebin rumors.u accepted those and now u have issues that those made up rumors don't match with the independent journalists leaks.
I accpeted those as what they're are. Rumors that could be right, or bullshit.
I honestly don't know what you want from me right now.

All rumors here posted so far contradict each other.
That's why i call for something verifiable.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,219
Wait why?

Really, there were people speculating that Lockhart has at least 6-7 teraflops because they couldnt imagine it being less 'powerful' than the Xbox One X. A lot of these came from Xbox fans.

I'm not sure why it's a narrative that it's a lot of PS5 fans that care that Lockhart is cancelled. Think it's good for Xbox fans more.
I'm sure there are people on both sides who would be happy if Lockhart were canceled. On the Sony side because a significantly cheaper console could seriously eat into Sony's market share, and on the Xbox side because there wouldn't be the perception of Xbox having a significantly weaker console.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
I accpeted those as what they're are. Rumors that could be right, or bullshit.
I honestly don't know what you want from me right now.

All rumors here posted so far contradict each other.
That's why i call for something verifiable.
Which u will get in due time.right now we have only 2 independent journalists both saying same.lets see if we see more.if sonynsaysbtheir console is more powerful I would take that with grain of salt .same as MS as they both have motives to push that angle but 3rd party journalists have zero motives one way or another.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
8,576
I'm sure there are people on both sides who would be happy if Lockhart were canceled. On the Sony side because a significantly cheaper console could seriously eat into Sony's market share, and on the Xbox side because there wouldn't be the perception of Xbox having a significantly weaker console.
Yeah that's what I think. Just not sure why it's primarily PS5 fans that would be happy when MS could have just Anaconda as the focus for its console.
 

Jaypah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,866
You did make it up, because you clearly don't know their preferences. And of course people in this thread are thinking about future sales numbers.. I've been following this thread long enough that I can tell you that the majority of people pushing the 'Lockhart is canceled' narrative are more interested in the PS5.

Well one talking point was that without Lockhart MS would have to release a weaker Anaconda. That doesn't seem like something an Xbox fan would want lol
 

Hoo-doo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 25, 2017
4,292
The Netherlands
Could. You know that word?
So how should we know what rumors are baseless and what are not without any details only insiders could know and we can verify after?
One is more powerful is nothing only a insider could potentially know. It's a 50:50 guess literally anyone can make. It's not a real leak with substance.


Remeber project neo?
somehow we got a code name for Ps4 Pro, and white paper that turned out to be correct.

It's without substance? The language is pretty clear cut, the people he talked to say the PS5 is the more powerful unit for the time being. That's it.
And fact is, he's actually the one putting his name out there with this rumor. People know the guy and we know he has actual insider connections.

That's a huge difference compared to most 'insider' bullshit, and why people will generally put more weight into this tweet as opposed to other rumors.
But then again, you just tried to make a counterpoint based on pastebin nonsense that is in no way corroborated whatsoever, so I guess we have vastly different perspectives on the matter.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,219
Yeah that's what I think. Just not sure why it's primarily PS5 fans that would be happy when MS could have just Anaconda as the focus for its console.
I'm talking about this thread specifically. And it certainly isn't the (few) Xbox fans in this thread who are pushing the 'canceled' narrative.

Edit - I'll also add that there are plenty of people who are afraid Lockhart will hold back next gen for everybody.
 
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Deleted member 49804

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Which u will get in due time.right now we have only 2 independent journalists both saying same.lets see if we see more.if sonynsaysbtheir console is more powerful I would take that with grain of salt .same as MS as they both have motives to push that angle but 3rd party journalists have zero motives one way or another.
Exactly and until time passes and something actual materializes, I take my own mind and knowledge on the matter over anything else.
The only person you can 100% trust is yourself. I don't take journalists as anything better or worse than a corporations or random individuals. At least not until I know them or their work to a great degree. That's the only way you become credible in the eyes of someone.

It's without substance? The language is pretty clear cut, the people he talked to say the PS5 is the more powerful unit for the time being. That's it.
Yes that is the prime example of no substance.
It's a relative term in comparison to another unknown variable.
 

Dokkaebi G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,922
Which u will get in due time.right now we have only 2 independent journalists both saying same.lets see if we see more.if sonynsaysbtheir console is more powerful I would take that with grain of salt .same as MS as they both have motives to push that angle but 3rd party journalists have zero motives one way or another.


oh what? we had the reiner guy, and i didnt know there was a second one! another tweet or comment somewhere? that's interesting and i wanna see!
 

Deleted member 18951

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Question, for those worried about Lockhart and how that may affect games being developed for next gen where does minimum PC specs align with this thinking? If Xbox games are available on Steam and W10 then they would need to be able to run on said minimum specs, doesn't this mean that Lockhart wouldn't have any meaningful impact on game development and wouldn't be holding anything back?

Unless the minimum specs on PC are the new AMD GPU's and CPU's?
 

Hellshy

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,172
I don't understand how ur reply relates to my response .I said ur assumption about ps5 soc size and release date are nothing but pastebin rumors.u accepted those and now u have issues that those made up rumors don't match with the independent journalists leaks.

I know abou Reiners comments but who is the other journalist and what did he say?
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,060
If Sony are releasing in fall 2020 they won't give any meaningful detail in December 2019

If they aren't having PS1 BC then they may not want to talk about PS5 during a celebration of 25 years since PS1
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,060
I know it doesn't mean anything, I was taking issue with his answer. I'll quote myself:

"He could say "No comment" or he could answer truthfully (either it's been canned, it hasn't or it's still under debate)....but don't come out saying "actually those 2 were the One X and the Scarlett""

And I'll add "because we all know its BS"

I don't know who I'm agreeing or disagreeing with - just used the post as a jump point. Assume I'm always agreeing with you :)
 

Deleted member 12635

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Here is my personal view on the performance crown issue:

I don't care if one or the other console is more powerful, but if you claim one is more powerful compared to the other you have to make a good case for it. One that makes sense.

For Anaconda that case was there:
Microsoft all the time said they wanted to most powerful console again.
The proved with Xbox One X, that they could squeez a lot of power out of a small form factor with clock speeds never seen before in a console.
The 2 SKU console strategy with a cheaper less powerful console and one that is a lot more expensive. Hence you have more budget for performance targets.

For the Ps5 there is nothing so far.
In fact the opposite is true. The SOC was/is rumored to be smaller. The console was rumored to potentially launch earlier. The console could be cheaper than Anaconda.

So If you make the claim Ps5 is more powerful people with knowledge on the technical side of console hardware and limitations of course want more information how Sony is going to achieve that. And in that case a vague, non retrospective verifiable tweet should be taken for what is.
Could be FUD, could be a troll, could be a misunderstanding, could be right for the moment, but change, could be correct.

It's not helpful at all.
If you leak, leak something with substance like code names, the actual wording of the marketing message, some actual target specs.
This. (the bolded parts)
 
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Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,924
Question, for those worried about Lockhart and how that may affect games being developed for next gen where does minimum PC specs align with this thinking? If Xbox games are available on Steam and W10 then they would need to be able to run on said minimum specs, doesn't this mean that Lockhart wouldn't have any meaningful impact on game development and wouldn't be holding anything back?

Unless the minimum specs on PC are the new AMD GPU's and CPU's?
The baseline Console specs will influence the minimum PC specs. It's not as binary as you've described. But to answer your question, Yes. No Lockhart will mean that devs are targeting more powerful machines which will likely exclude some PC set-ups from being able to run them. It will depend on the game and the dev team.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
Here is my personal view on the performance crown issue:

I don't care if one or the other console is more powerful, but if you claim one is more powerful compared to the other you have to make a good case for it. One that makes sense.

For Anaconda that case was there:
Microsoft all the time said they wanted to most powerful console again.
The proved with Xbox One X, that they could squeez a lot of power out of a small form factor with clock speeds never seen before in a console.
The 2 SKU console strategy with a cheaper less powerful console and one that is a lot more expensive. Hence you have more budget for performance targets.

For the Ps5 there is nothing so far.
In fact the opposite is true. The SOC was/is rumored to be smaller. The console was rumored to potentially launch earlier. The console could be cheaper than Anaconda.

So If you make the claim Ps5 is more powerful people with knowledge on the technical side of console hardware and limitations of course want more information how Sony is going to achieve that. And in that case a vague, non retrospective verifiable tweet should be taken for what is. Could be FUD, could be a troll, could be a misunderstanding, could be right for the moment, but change, could be correct.

It's not helpful at all.
If you leak, leak something with substance like code names, the actual wording of the marketing message, some actual target specs.
Indulge me here. So you really believe that devs have PS5 devkits with final silicon. And by final silicon, I mean still yet-unreleased Ryzen 3 CPU + (also unreleased) Navi GPU..... made even worse when you consider the GPU being used by MS and sony is most likely based on RDNA2, which mind you is due around this time next year.

Or is it that the whole non-final dev kits argument only applies to MS?

I don't even believe that MS or sony even have test APUs in their dev kits or even a working APU in their labs yet. Yes, I believe that APU we saw in the scarlet video was a mock-up and not real.

Don't get me wrong... I have said before and still stand by it that MS would most likely have the more powerful console... and my reasons then still stand; they need it more. I am just not buying into the whole final APU size nonsense. For either platform.
 
Feb 26, 2018
2,753
Here is my personal view on the performance crown issue:

I don't care if one or the other console is more powerful, but if you claim one is more powerful compared to the other you have to make a good case for it. One that makes sense.

For Anaconda that case was there:
Microsoft all the time said they wanted to most powerful console again.
The proved with Xbox One X, that they could squeez a lot of power out of a small form factor with clock speeds never seen before in a console.
The 2 SKU console strategy with a cheaper less powerful console and one that is a lot more expensive. Hence you have more budget for performance targets.

For the Ps5 there is nothing so far.
In fact the opposite is true. The SOC was/is rumored to be smaller. The console was rumored to potentially launch earlier. The console could be cheaper than Anaconda.

So If you make the claim Ps5 is more powerful people with knowledge on the technical side of console hardware and limitations of course want more information how Sony is going to achieve that. And in that case a vague, non retrospective verifiable tweet should be taken for what is. Could be FUD, could be a troll, could be a misunderstanding, could be right for the moment, but change, could be correct.

It's not helpful at all.
If you leak, leak something with substance like code names, the actual wording of the marketing message, some actual target specs.
I love how you reference vague leaks about MS and Sony like some sort of truth and than ask Reiner to leak something with substance.
This thread is so full of hypocrites is kinda crazy
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,141

That make no sense since nothing there on PS5 is base on anything other than some people wishful thinking .
Hell we have people leaking stuff about MS and saying PS5 will be weaker without knowing anything about PS5 .
Saying they using the GPU for something it's not so tell me how there info worth more if they know nothing about PS5.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Phil Spencer does reference "having the world's most powerful console" as being critical to their platform in the new Kotaku interview.
 

Deleted member 18951

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
5,531
The baseline Console specs will influence the minimum PC specs. It's not as binary as you've described. But to answer your question, Yes. No Lockhart will mean that devs are targeting more powerful machines which will likely exclude some PC set-ups from being able to run them. It will depend on the game and the dev team.

But they got Sea of Thieves running on a potato along with other first party titles, I just dont see them leaving such a huge pool of PC players behind by requiring minimum specs that are cutting edge tech. We'll see I suppose.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,849
Indulge me here. So you really believe that devs have PS5 devkits with final silicon. And by final silicon, I mean still yet-unreleased Ryzen 3 CPU + (also unreleased) Navi GPU..... made even worse when you consider the GPU being used by MS and sony is most likely based on RDNA2, which mind you is due around this time next year.

Or is it that the whole non-final dev kits argument only applies to MS?

I don't even believe that MS or sony even have test APUs in their dev kits or even a working APU in their labs yet. Yes, I believe that APU we saw in the scarlet video was a mock-up and not real.

Don't get me wrong... I have said before and still stand by it that MS would most likely have the more powerful console... and my reasons then still stand; they need it more. I am just not buying into the whole final APU size nonsense. For either platform.
I think that what he means is.

That with the dev kits (even without final silicon), the devs would have been given ballpark figures to work with... bandwidth etc

How else could someone tweet x is more powerful than y without such knowledge?

Anyway, in the crotch department. I think sony will have the bigger bulge next gen. I think that they are prepared to take a loss (not massive), because they are confident (rightly so) in the PS4s ability to offset it for another couple of years until the BoM comes down.
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,924
Based on what im reading.
Pastebin is more believable then a person who is neutral and has talked to devs?
It's quite an incredible thing to behold isn't it?

I know some guys here are tech guys, they want to see the components and calculate things for themselves, so they put more faith in part "leaks". But I think the reality is that devs are looking at performance, not counting TFs, and Sony and MS might not even be talking TFs just so there is no number to put out there. Andrew Reiner might not be a tech person either, you can see that tech ignorance in a lot of games press, but if he trusts his sources that are devs with first hand knowledge, it's the most reasonable source to put weight into.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
I think that what he means is.

That with the dev kits (even without final silicon), the devs would have been given ballpark figures to work with... bandwidth etc

How else could someone tweet x is more powerful than y without such knowledge?

Anyway, in the crotch department. I think sony will have the bigger bulge next gen. I think that they are prepared to take a loss (not massive), because they are confident (rightly so) in the PS4s ability to offset it for another couple of years until the BoM comes down.
This is exactly what sony said actually.expecting PS4 to be money maker and ps5 to lose money for the next couple of years
 

Dokkaebi G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,922
i just googled who colin is ... doesnt sound like a respected journo, more just a verified person on twitter who has a podcast and only shares playstation news. but whatever. lol ill just take reiners tweet and that's it.
 
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