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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?

  • GDDR6

    Votes: 566 41.0%

  • GDDR6 + DDR4

    Votes: 540 39.2%

  • HBM2

    Votes: 53 3.8%

  • HBM2 + DDR4

    Votes: 220 16.0%
  • Total voters
    1,379
Status
Not open for further replies.
Reader mode
Albert Penello

Albert Penello

Verified
Nov 2, 2017
320
Redmond, WA
SeanMN said:
Reiner's tweets are interesting, and has added a new discussion point to the thread. But, there's just so much information and detail lacking, it's difficult to extrapolate to final consoles from there.

What state are the devkits in (PC parts, early APU samples, etc.)? Reiner clarified more powerful as in more flops - ok, so are devs basing their comments on seeing one number higher than the other, or are they getting more performance out of one system over the other? How many devs did he here this from; all from one studio, or from several studios? Why didn't GI include this info in their articles about Scarlett? Why hasn't there been any other comments about this from virtually anyone else (who also aren't banned on ERA)?
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They are in NO state, based on history. For Scorpio, which was a pretty simple bring-up that went very well, the first chips booted on a board in December 2016. The first real dev kit (that looked like a final console) didn't go out until March 2017.

Historically, for a FULL next-gen launch final Dev Kits aren't usually even out until Summer the year of launch. Although prototype boards get better monthly starting the holiday before.

Hell, back in Xbox 360 they famously sent out Mac's as Dev Kits.

My point is that I'm ignoring any comments about Dev Kits. Without more detail, that information is sort of meaningless. Dev Kits nearly always have more power than the final console (necessary for PC ports) and probably have to be SUPER beefy now since they have to use current PC parts to try and allow development of next-gen features.

In my opinion (for what that's worth) you must separate two statements that could mean different things.
- "I've heard the final specs for XYZ console is more powerful"
- "I've heard the Dev Kit for XYZ console is more powerful"

Not trying to say what I think is true (my bet has already been stated) but just saying I personally place no weight on a dev kit spec 17 months before launch.
 

Deleted member 4761

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,595
Albert Penello said:
They are in NO state, based on history. For Scorpio, which was a pretty simple bring-up that went very well, the first chips booted on a board in December 2016. The first real dev kit (that looked like a final console) didn't go out until March 2017.

Historically, for a FULL next-gen launch final Dev Kits aren't usually even out until Summer the year of launch. Although prototype boards get better monthly starting the holiday before.

Hell, back in Xbox 360 they famously sent out Mac's as Dev Kits.

My point is that I'm ignoring any comments about Dev Kits. Without more detail, that information is sort of meaningless. Dev Kits nearly always have more power than the final console (necessary for PC ports) and probably have to be SUPER beefy now since they have to use current PC parts to try and allow development of next-gen features.

In my opinion (for what that's worth) you must separate two statements that could mean different things.
- "I've heard the final specs for XYZ console is more powerful"
- "I've heard the Dev Kit for XYZ console is more powerful"

Not trying to say what I think is true (my bet has already been stated) but just saying I personally place no weight on a dev kit spec 17 months before launch.
Click to expand...
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Thanks Albert!
<3
 
Phil me in

Phil me in

Member
Nov 22, 2018
1,292
Doctor Avatar said:
It's got to the point where I just dip into this thread to see if there are any new developments and then swiftly nope out because of all this nonsense.

The amount of vitriol spewed over the most legitimate rumour we have, of every rumour, is hilarious.



Of course you would take this tact anthony. Had he said Xbox was more powerful than PS5 you would be screaming it from the rooftops though. You wouldn't be poo-pooing his credentials and sources at every opportunity.

Reiner's statements are the most legitimate info we have on the relative power of the consoles currently whether you like it or not. Xbox may still end up being more powerful, who knows, but at the moment the best source we have says PS5 is more powerful.
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Can you point me to both sources please.
 
modiz

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,847
Rylen said:
5700 XT is same TDP as RX 580.

Xbox One X GPU TDP is 150W, and basically a RX 580 with more CU and less MHz

So they'll likely do the same again to be more power efficient, more CU, less clocks
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Which still ended up being lower than the boost on the rx 580, which is my point: we wont have a stronger gpu in a console than the rx 5700XT, meaning below 10TF.
 
bcatwilly

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,483
Albert Penello said:
They are in NO state, based on history. For Scorpio, which was a pretty simple bring-up that went very well, the first chips booted on a board in December 2016. The first real dev kit (that looked like a final console) didn't go out until March 2017.

Historically, for a FULL next-gen launch final Dev Kits aren't usually even out until Summer the year of launch. Although prototype boards get better monthly starting the holiday before.

Hell, back in Xbox 360 they famously sent out Mac's as Dev Kits.

My point is that I'm ignoring any comments about Dev Kits. Without more detail, that information is sort of meaningless. Dev Kits nearly always have more power than the final console (necessary for PC ports) and probably have to be SUPER beefy now since they have to use current PC parts to try and allow development of next-gen features.

In my opinion (for what that's worth) you must separate two statements that could mean different things.
- "I've heard the final specs for XYZ console is more powerful"
- "I've heard the Dev Kit for XYZ console is more powerful"

Not trying to say what I think is true (my bet has already been stated) but just saying I personally place no weight on a dev kit spec 17 months before launch.
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LOL, Albert actually bringing some logic to things.
 
MaulerX

MaulerX

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,693
Albert Penello said:
They are in NO state, based on history. For Scorpio, which was a pretty simple bring-up that went very well, the first chips booted on a board in December 2016. The first real dev kit (that looked like a final console) didn't go out until March 2017.

Historically, for a FULL next-gen launch final Dev Kits aren't usually even out until Summer the year of launch. Although prototype boards get better monthly starting the holiday before.

Hell, back in Xbox 360 they famously sent out Mac's as Dev Kits.

My point is that I'm ignoring any comments about Dev Kits. Without more detail, that information is sort of meaningless. Dev Kits nearly always have more power than the final console (necessary for PC ports) and probably have to be SUPER beefy now since they have to use current PC parts to try and allow development of next-gen features.

In my opinion (for what that's worth) you must separate two statements that could mean different things.
- "I've heard the final specs for XYZ console is more powerful"
- "I've heard the Dev Kit for XYZ console is more powerful"

Not trying to say what I think is true (my bet has already been stated) but just saying I personally place no weight on a dev kit spec 17 months before launch.
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Thank you!
 
N.Domixis

N.Domixis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,208
I'm still chortling about what that one person brought up. Before (ps5 > xbox) any rumor from anaconda was pushed, now its like "woah, woah, its to early to call."
 
rokkerkory

rokkerkory

Banned
Jun 14, 2018
14,128
Albert Penello said:
They are in NO state, based on history. For Scorpio, which was a pretty simple bring-up that went very well, the first chips booted on a board in December 2016. The first real dev kit (that looked like a final console) didn't go out until March 2017.

Historically, for a FULL next-gen launch final Dev Kits aren't usually even out until Summer the year of launch. Although prototype boards get better monthly starting the holiday before.

Hell, back in Xbox 360 they famously sent out Mac's as Dev Kits.

My point is that I'm ignoring any comments about Dev Kits. Without more detail, that information is sort of meaningless. Dev Kits nearly always have more power than the final console (necessary for PC ports) and probably have to be SUPER beefy now since they have to use current PC parts to try and allow development of next-gen features.

In my opinion (for what that's worth) you must separate two statements that could mean different things.
- "I've heard the final specs for XYZ console is more powerful"
- "I've heard the Dev Kit for XYZ console is more powerful"

Not trying to say what I think is true (my bet has already been stated) but just saying I personally place no weight on a dev kit spec 17 months before launch.
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Stop it with the common sense! ;)
 
modiz

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,847
Albert Penello said:
They are in NO state, based on history. For Scorpio, which was a pretty simple bring-up that went very well, the first chips booted on a board in December 2016. The first real dev kit (that looked like a final console) didn't go out until March 2017.

Historically, for a FULL next-gen launch final Dev Kits aren't usually even out until Summer the year of launch. Although prototype boards get better monthly starting the holiday before.

Hell, back in Xbox 360 they famously sent out Mac's as Dev Kits.

My point is that I'm ignoring any comments about Dev Kits. Without more detail, that information is sort of meaningless. Dev Kits nearly always have more power than the final console (necessary for PC ports) and probably have to be SUPER beefy now since they have to use current PC parts to try and allow development of next-gen features.

In my opinion (for what that's worth) you must separate two statements that could mean different things.
- "I've heard the final specs for XYZ console is more powerful"
- "I've heard the Dev Kit for XYZ console is more powerful"

Not trying to say what I think is true (my bet has already been stated) but just saying I personally place no weight on a dev kit spec 17 months before launch.
Click to expand...
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Then again back in june 2012 we got the exact gpu performance level of the ps4 from the dev kit, which shows that least in the past sony didnt give developers stronger hardware than the final console.
So are you saying that the ps5 is faster than the devkits of scarlett, that are faster than the final scarlett? My point is, that looking historically the ps4s gpu at this point in time was very much representative of the final machine
 
Miniature Kaiju

Miniature Kaiju

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,139
Somewhere South
modiz said:
Then again back in june 2012 we got the exact gpu performance level of the ps4 from the dev kit, which shows that least in the past sony didnt give developers stronger hardware than the final console.
So are you saying that the ps5 is faster than the devkits of scarlett, that are faster than the final scarlett? My point is, that looking historically the ps4s gpu at this point in time was very much representative of the final machine
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Maybe we should take what Penello says as what it is: potentially representative of what MS was/is doing and that's about it.
 
anexanhume

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
Albert Penello said:
They are in NO state, based on history. For Scorpio, which was a pretty simple bring-up that went very well, the first chips booted on a board in December 2016. The first real dev kit (that looked like a final console) didn't go out until March 2017.

Historically, for a FULL next-gen launch final Dev Kits aren't usually even out until Summer the year of launch. Although prototype boards get better monthly starting the holiday before.

Hell, back in Xbox 360 they famously sent out Mac's as Dev Kits.

My point is that I'm ignoring any comments about Dev Kits. Without more detail, that information is sort of meaningless. Dev Kits nearly always have more power than the final console (necessary for PC ports) and probably have to be SUPER beefy now since they have to use current PC parts to try and allow development of next-gen features.

In my opinion (for what that's worth) you must separate two statements that could mean different things.
- "I've heard the final specs for XYZ console is more powerful"
- "I've heard the Dev Kit for XYZ console is more powerful"

Not trying to say what I think is true (my bet has already been stated) but just saying I personally place no weight on a dev kit spec 17 months before launch.
Click to expand...
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What needed to be said but will not satisfy anyone because everyone wants answers now :D

To extrapolate on this timeline, anyone claiming to have a dev kit from which they are calculating die size is lying. We won't see those dev kits until next year.

Mecha Meister threadmark please
 
Last edited:
Jerm411

Jerm411

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,030
Clinton, MO
Albert Penello said:
They are in NO state, based on history. For Scorpio, which was a pretty simple bring-up that went very well, the first chips booted on a board in December 2016. The first real dev kit (that looked like a final console) didn't go out until March 2017.

Historically, for a FULL next-gen launch final Dev Kits aren't usually even out until Summer the year of launch. Although prototype boards get better monthly starting the holiday before.

Hell, back in Xbox 360 they famously sent out Mac's as Dev Kits.

My point is that I'm ignoring any comments about Dev Kits. Without more detail, that information is sort of meaningless. Dev Kits nearly always have more power than the final console (necessary for PC ports) and probably have to be SUPER beefy now since they have to use current PC parts to try and allow development of next-gen features.

In my opinion (for what that's worth) you must separate two statements that could mean different things.
- "I've heard the final specs for XYZ console is more powerful"
- "I've heard the Dev Kit for XYZ console is more powerful"

Not trying to say what I think is true (my bet has already been stated) but just saying I personally place no weight on a dev kit spec 17 months before launch.
Click to expand...
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Now I must find this lol....thanks for the insight though!
 
Doctor Avatar

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
2,605
bcatwilly said:
LOL, Albert actually bringing some logic to things.
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After what Albert said about the relative power of the PS4 and XBO before they were released I would take anything he says with a huge grain of salt.

Phil me in said:
Can you point me to both sources please.
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Have a look back through the thread. Editor in chief at game informer states when he spoke to developers at E3 they said that the PS5 dev kits are more powerful than the Scarlett ones.
 
CosmicBolt

CosmicBolt

Self-Requested Ban
Member
Oct 28, 2017
884
Albert Penello said:
They are in NO state, based on history. For Scorpio, which was a pretty simple bring-up that went very well, the first chips booted on a board in December 2016. The first real dev kit (that looked like a final console) didn't go out until March 2017.

Historically, for a FULL next-gen launch final Dev Kits aren't usually even out until Summer the year of launch. Although prototype boards get better monthly starting the holiday before.

Hell, back in Xbox 360 they famously sent out Mac's as Dev Kits.

My point is that I'm ignoring any comments about Dev Kits. Without more detail, that information is sort of meaningless. Dev Kits nearly always have more power than the final console (necessary for PC ports) and probably have to be SUPER beefy now since they have to use current PC parts to try and allow development of next-gen features.

In my opinion (for what that's worth) you must separate two statements that could mean different things.
- "I've heard the final specs for XYZ console is more powerful"
- "I've heard the Dev Kit for XYZ console is more powerful"

Not trying to say what I think is true (my bet has already been stated) but just saying I personally place no weight on a dev kit spec 17 months before launch.
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But 17 months before launch Orbis(ps4) devkit had more GPU power 1.8TF than Durango(xbox one) devkit. And the power difference still remained in the final retail product.
 
sleepr

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
gundamkyoukai said:
I thought that was common sense for eg PS4 final devs kit went out summer of the same year it came out.
All the info\ rumours we getting base on devs kit that will change in time.
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Devs had the final PS4 kits at the beginning of 2013 (or before that). Remember the leaked DS4 prototype controller? It was leaked at Feb 15th 2013.

In that picture you see the exact same devkits they've been using for ages.
 
BitsandBytes

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
modiz said:
Then again back in june 2012 we got the exact gpu performance level of the ps4 from the dev kit, which shows that least in the past sony didnt give developers stronger hardware than the final console.
So are you saying that the ps5 is faster than the devkits of scarlett, that are faster than the final scarlett? My point is, that looking historically the ps4s gpu at this point in time was very much representative of the final machine
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This is where the confusion is and is why I mentioned the dev kit documents earlier. The June 2012 PS4 dev kit was still PC-based but the documents listed very detailed and final specs. The real hardware kits went out from around late 2012 to FP and then after the reveal in February 2013 to TP.
 
Super Barrier

Super Barrier

Member
Nov 20, 2017
1,336
N.Domixis said:
I'm still chortling about what that one person brought up. Before (ps5 > xbox) any rumor from anaconda was pushed, now its like "woah, woah, its to early to call."
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We all know this goes both ways. I remember seeing many posts about how we won't be seeing a difference if Anaconda is 20% more powerful and that power won't help worldwide sales.
 
gundamkyoukai

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,151
grosbard

grosbard

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
767
Albert Penello said:
They are in NO state, based on history. For Scorpio, which was a pretty simple bring-up that went very well, the first chips booted on a board in December 2016. The first real dev kit (that looked like a final console) didn't go out until March 2017.

Historically, for a FULL next-gen launch final Dev Kits aren't usually even out until Summer the year of launch. Although prototype boards get better monthly starting the holiday before.

Hell, back in Xbox 360 they famously sent out Mac's as Dev Kits.

My point is that I'm ignoring any comments about Dev Kits. Without more detail, that information is sort of meaningless. Dev Kits nearly always have more power than the final console (necessary for PC ports) and probably have to be SUPER beefy now since they have to use current PC parts to try and allow development of next-gen features.

In my opinion (for what that's worth) you must separate two statements that could mean different things.
- "I've heard the final specs for XYZ console is more powerful"
- "I've heard the Dev Kit for XYZ console is more powerful"

Not trying to say what I think is true (my bet has already been stated) but just saying I personally place no weight on a dev kit spec 17 months before launch.
Click to expand...
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This makes sense. As time goes on, dev kits change specs. It's certainly possible that the ps5 dev kit is more powerful than anaconda right now. Since it's so earlier, that doesn't really hold any weight. This time next year, the anaconda dev kit could be more powerful. On the other hand, this time next year, the ps5 dev kit could still be more powerful.
 
christocolus

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
Albert Penello said:
They are in NO state, based on history. For Scorpio, which was a pretty simple bring-up that went very well, the first chips booted on a board in December 2016. The first real dev kit (that looked like a final console) didn't go out until March 2017.

Historically, for a FULL next-gen launch final Dev Kits aren't usually even out until Summer the year of launch. Although prototype boards get better monthly starting the holiday before.

Hell, back in Xbox 360 they famously sent out Mac's as Dev Kits.

My point is that I'm ignoring any comments about Dev Kits. Without more detail, that information is sort of meaningless. Dev Kits nearly always have more power than the final console (necessary for PC ports) and probably have to be SUPER beefy now since they have to use current PC parts to try and allow development of next-gen features.

In my opinion (for what that's worth) you must separate two statements that could mean different things.
- "I've heard the final specs for XYZ console is more powerful"
- "I've heard the Dev Kit for XYZ console is more powerful"

Not trying to say what I think is true (my bet has already been stated) but just saying I personally place no weight on a dev kit spec 17 months before launch.
Click to expand...
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This makes a lot sense. Thanks for sharing Albert.
 
modiz

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,847
BitsandBytes said:
This is where the confusion is and is why I mentioned the dev kit documents earlier. The June 2012 PS4 dev kit was still PC-based but the documents listed very detailed and final specs. The real hardware kits went out from around late 2012 to FP and then after the reveal in February 2013 to TP.
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In that case doesnt it mean that developers likely already have the spec sheet? Which is why they are saying that one is stronger than the other?
 
gofreak

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,737
FWIW, Reiner responded to a tweet asking how devs could know if dev kits are not out for both - Reiner said 'specs are discussed beforehand'. So it sounds like what he heard is based on the current state of target specs for the systems, not the current state of dev kits per se.
 
Jenea

Jenea

Banned
Mar 14, 2018
1,568
There is no way Microsoft will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony, so let's wait for the final specs before we discuss the devkit rumours.
 
QuiteSomething

QuiteSomething

Banned
Feb 26, 2018
2,753
So how come other insiders claimed that Snek is gonna be more powerful if the dev kits dont exist yet?
And its kinda strange that we are comparing next gen and midgen refresh dev kits.
 
modiz

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,847
gofreak said:
FWIW, Reiner responded to a tweet asking how devs could know if dev kits are not out for both - Reiner said 'specs are discussed beforehand'. So it sounds like what he heard is based on the current state of target specs for the systems, not the current state of dev kits per se.
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Huh, very interesting.
grosbard said:
Going back to Penello's latest post, final specs and dev kit specs (this early) are going to be different.
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Not by a large factor, iirc phil said that the silicon is locked so mostly only the clock speeds can change at this point, and probably not by a significant amount.
 
Miniature Kaiju

Miniature Kaiju

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,139
Somewhere South
Guymelef said:
Of course there are no final kits year and probably won't be for a year. But developers works under a target hardware.
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The definitely have target specs and, likely, development environment devkits, at this point. That they don't have final silicon devkits is both obvious and mostly meaningless.

Jenea said:
There is no way Microsoft will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony, so let's wait for the final specs before we discuss the devkit rumours.
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*slow clap*

Beautiful, beautiful.
 
Andromeda

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,847
From the start the belief that Gonzalo is the PS5 is just a wild theory. What we know is that it's a gaming APU. Everything else is pure speculation based on one wrong assumption and flagrant omissions.

Wrong assumption than BC need exact same clocks (it doesn't, actually, hardware BC as described in the patent should need different clocks because of inevitable different cache latencies, particulary using a new GPU arch).

Omission than the second model is 1670 instead of 1600. So the second model numbers are ommitted to build the nice PS5 theory with 1600 mhz base clocks.

Omission that the similar numbers on the PS4 and Pro models mean totally something else, definitely not clocks. And that the pattern of all the characters is quite different than Gonzalo characters pattern.

Omission that consoles APUs don't have neither base clocks nor boost clocks.

AegonSnake said:
More flops? Maybe it's GCN flops vs Navi flops.

PS5 using Vega confirmed.
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Actually he says 2 things: PS5 dev-kit is more powerful and has more flops.

Miniature Kaiju said:
Maybe we should take what Penello says as what it is: potentially representative of what MS was/is doing and that's about it.
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Exactly. he just told us that in his experience, Microsoft way of doing things, dev-kits are usually stronger. Scorpio dev-kits are still stronger than XBX retail console. It's not like that for Sony, see modiz last post above.

With that being said, how can PS5 dev-kits be more powerful while having more flops than Scarlet dev-kits ? Since when MS send underpowered dev-kits to devs ? It doesn't make any sense. And if they sent VEGA dev-kits, would they send 9 tflops GCN dev-kits when >12 tflops GCN GPUs are widely available ?
 
Guymelef

Guymelef

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
Spain
Jenea said:
There is no way Microsoft will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony, so let's wait for the final specs before we discuss the devkit rumours.
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XS5LK.gif
 
gundamkyoukai

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,151
If we go by say PS4 near final PS5 kits will be out January next year .
The final version more software base than hardware changes .
 
BitsandBytes

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
gundamkyoukai said:
They were being shipped out in summer .
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Sony do final spec kits and then later (like for the summer 2013 PS4 kits) mass produced kits. Did the same for Pro.

modiz said:
In that case doesnt it mean that developers likely already have the spec sheet? Which is why they are saying that one is stronger than the other?
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I think it is possible written/PDF documents list specs as we have precedent in Sony's case. It would need to be the case for Microsoft too for devs to say one is stronger, though.
 
gofreak

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,737
grosbard said:
Going back to Penello's latest post, final specs and dev kit specs (this early) are going to be different.
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I think the suggestion is that devs are getting the current target for final specs, and that's what devs were comparing wrt Reiner's original tweet.

Of course those things are certainly subject to change.
 
grosbard

grosbard

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
767
modiz said:
Not by a large factor, iirc phil said that the silicon is locked so mostly only the clock speeds can change at this point, and probably not by a significant amount.
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Yeah sure, that's a good point. I'm curious if the dev kit power could essentially flip. For example, early ps5/anaconda dev kits less powerful than ps5/anaconda dev kits and then late ps5/anaconda dev kits more powerful than ps5/anaconda dev kits.

BitsandBytes said:
Sony do final spec kits and then later (like for the summer 2013 PS4 kits) mass produced kits. Did the same for Pro.
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Very interesting. Do you know if MS does that too?
 
Firmus_Anguis

Firmus_Anguis

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,123
Ruslnis said:
So how come other insiders claimed that Snek is gonna be more powerful if the dev kits dont exist yet?
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From what I recall, they used terminology like "aim to be the most powerful/advanced"... Seems they didn't believe Sony would be taking the same route, therfore no mention of a 2 SKU-plan for Scarlett at E3.

Honestly, this is the absolute best case scenario! 😊
Sony and Microsoft going at it, both aiming to create monsters! 😁👏

No Lockhart, no nothing... Just:

giphy.gif


SO I SAY:

giphy.gif
 
Rylen

Rylen

Member
Feb 5, 2019
466
modiz said:
Which still ended up being lower than the boost on the rx 580
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I mean that's literally what I said

Another
modiz said:
Which still ended up being lower than the boost on the rx 580, which is my point: we wont have a stronger gpu in a console than the rx 5700XT, meaning below 10TF.
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Each Dual CU will only add around 4-5mm.

So the die space is available for more CU's if the 390mm rumors are correct.

When GCN launched they added 20% performance by adding more CU's and lowering clock rates just 2.5%.

The power draw increased by a small 5%

March 2012: 7870 Ghz (GCN 1st Gen)
1280 Shaders
1000 MHz
2.56 TF
175w TDP

November 2012: 7870 XT (GCN 1st Gen)
1536 Shaders
975 MHz
3 TF
185w TDP
 
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