Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

[SeanMN]

People can watch the clip starting at the 36:38 mark of this to hear for themselves if they want, but I think that it is very reasonable to think that Microsoft is in a position to go all in on CPU customization on Scarlett using the Ryzen Zen 2 cores.

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I just finished listening to Phil at Giant Bomb. I remember him emphasizing the balance of CPU and GPU while talking to Jeff at E3 last year, and again CPU is something he mentioned this year. It definitely seems like they have a strong focus on CPU performance and capability.

It does seem like if it was a 12 core part they would've mentioned 6x or just said we have 12 cores. So it's mostly likely they still have 8, but with the way Phil has talked about the balance of CPU and GPU, to me, it sounded like part of it was the physical contribution of the CPU to the overall SOC. Perhaps this focus includes things like hardware for ML or AI, things to reduce the load on the CPU, or can help the CPU to run more efficiently. Back in the 360/PS3 generation the split between die sizes of CPU and GPU was much closer to 50/50, whereas this generation it skewed towards GPU (especially the Pro and X).

 

[Luckydog]

What habits? Showing that he prefers Xbox? He's not on Ars, Wired or The Verge, he's a writer for a Microsoft focused tech blog, his bias is fine with the position he's in.

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It is amazing the mental backflips that are done by some posters. If he doesn't write anything pro MS he is still biased because he is from WindowsCentral. He writes a statement that he hopes the company he writes about does well and he's biased. It's not like he is from the WSJ.... Next thing you know, Nintendo Power will be writing pro nintendo pieces......

 

[Jaypah]

I just finished listening to Phil at Giant Bomb. I remember him emphasizing the balance of CPU and GPU while talking to Jeff at E3 last year, and again CPU is something he mentioned this year. It definitely seems like they have a strong focus on CPU performance and capability.

It does seem like if it was a 12 core part they would've mentioned 6x or just said we have 12 cores. So it's mostly likely they still have 8, but with the way Phil has talked about the balance of CPU and GPU, to me, it sounded like part of it was the physical contribution of the CPU to the overall SOC. Perhaps this focus includes things like hardware for ML or AI, things to reduce the load on the CPU, or can help the CPU to run more efficiently. Back in the 360/PS3 generation the split between die sizes of CPU and GPU was much closer to 50/50, whereas this generation it skewed towards GPU (especially the Pro and X).

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Or maybe he just meant that they won't be saddled with a shit tier CPU this time. Not saying they haven't customized it but coming off the weak Jaguars I'd be happy to talk up the CPU too.

 

[BitsandBytes]

I think the talk of a more balanced system is just code for the CPU gets a major bump and the GPU/RAM not so much compared to current gen.

At least until proven otherwise. Not getting my hopes up for anything more than my previous specs guess.

 

[bsigg]

I didn't think anyone out there would ever take something written by WindowsCentral or Jez Corden at face value. Come on now.

Even Xbox die-hards should look long and hard at the reliability of all the so-called Xbox 'insiders' after this year's E3.
Nearly all of them are just fanboys with a boner for attention and followers, and the bad thing is that the thirsty fanbase hangs onto their every word.

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I mean, that goes for any insider. The reason they're insiders is because they have some large interest in the company that they're following and have cultivated relationships with people that work for that company to get information.

 

[chowyunfatt]

I'd actually prefer if the machines end up being nearly identical power/performance wise so companies can just focus on great games and we can all focus less on DF comparisons and more on playing/enjoying them. (no offense to DF or anything, just using it as a broad example)

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I really hope so too, because 3rd parties won't have to add a few extra pixels or a blade of grass to please marketing teams, they can just make great games.
I do think they will be very similar anyway, hopefully It will just come down to which ecosystem your prefer and everybody can concentrate on playing and enjoying games where they choose.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I mean, that goes for any insider. The reason they're insiders is because they have some large interest in the company that they're following and have cultivated relationships with people that work for that company to get information.

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Yeah that, or they just regurgitate rumours they read on blogs/forums, tease megatons where there are none and generally serve as unpaid PR machines.

Stupid thing is, it gets them followers.

 

[Deleted member 40133]

Just speculation. Like when MS was using Vega or Sony had Navi exclusively.

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Ms using vega was a forum creation, the Sony Navi thing as I recall was a thing was a wall street journal thing. I trust windows central speculation to be about as unbiased as pushsquare. It's perfectly fine, but unless we're talking a leak with info I would never trust their speculation

 

[Jaypah]

Ms using vega was a forum creation, the Sony Navi thing as I recall was a thing was a wall street journal thing. I trust windows central speculation to be about as unbiased as pushsquare. It's perfectly fine, but unless we're talking a leak with info I would never trust their speculation

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Not really concerned with whether or not you believe them, that ain't my business. Just saying people will tend to speculate in a speculation thread, regardless of if you like the message or not.

 

[lynux3]

It is amazing the mental backflips that are done by some posters. If he doesn't write anything pro MS he is still biased because he is from WindowsCentral. He writes a statement that he hopes the company he writes about does well and he's biased. It's not like he is from the WSJ.... Next thing you know, Nintendo Power will be writing pro nintendo pieces......

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It's beyond logical reasoning to include something that has no substantial rumor supporting it.

 

[MrKlaw]

Doesn't the GPU have features to help reduce CPU overhead for eg draw calls?

 

[Jeffram]

I'm glad we're getting a CPU bump, but I hear everyone excited about how much better the Zen 2 will be, and I see the number 4x better and it doesn't seem all that impressive to me...

Jaguars were a disaster, and after 7 years, 2 major node shrinks, completely new architecture, and needing more space in the APU, 4x seems like not that big a jump at all, considering the GPU jump will be bigger than that.

 

[Deleted member 49804]

I didn't think anyone out there would ever take something written by WindowsCentral or Jez Corden at face value. Come on now.

Even Xbox die-hards should look long and hard at the reliability of all the so-called Xbox 'insiders' after this year's E3.
Nearly all of them are just fanboys with a boner for attention and followers, and the bad thing is that the thirsty fanbase hangs onto their every word.

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Joke post?
Did you miss all the codenames that came from there and Thurrott.com in the first place and were accurate and true?
You rather believe Resetera "insiders" who make horoscope non statements all the time?

 

[Kiekura]

I'm glad we're getting a CPU bump, but I hear everyone excited about how much better the Zen 2 will be, and I see the number 4x better and it doesn't seem all that impressive to me...

Jaguars were a disaster, and after 7 years, 2 major node shrinks, completely new architecture, and needing more space in the APU, 4x seems like not that big a jump at all, considering the GPU jump will be bigger than that.

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The CPU jump is massive.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I'm glad we're getting a CPU bump, but I hear everyone excited about how much better the Zen 2 will be, and I see the number 4x better and it doesn't seem all that impressive to me...

Jaguars were a disaster, and after 7 years, 2 major node shrinks, completely new architecture, and needing more space in the APU, 4x seems like not that big a jump at all, considering the GPU jump will be bigger than that.

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It should end up being more than 4x considering Zen 2 IPC improvements.
Also, apparently AVX workloads are over 8X faster.

But yeah, the CPU have been heavily stagnant. However, this does remove a significant bottleneck considering that consoles will still stick with 30-60 FPS.

This means that in the most extreme CPU bound scenario a game that runs at 7 FPS on Jag goes to 30 FPS on Zen 2 while a 15 FPS game goes to 60 FPS with the new CPU.

 

[BeI]

Absolutely. Without a doubt. And there are reasons for that.

1. First, note that that the $450+ you spend on a 5700XT in 2019, is for a complete GPU. Chip, RAM, PCB, Cooler, other components, assembly, packaging, shipping, and AMD's profit mark up.
2. Then note that the only thing Sony is getting from AMD is the chip.
3. And at that point, it doesn't matter what kinda chip it s what t comes down to is how big it is. How much would a chip that size ost AMD to get from TSMC, and how much of markup will they add on it and sell to sony/ms?

Then comes in economies of scale. Say AMD pays around $80 to TSMC for a 255mm2 hip, and say $120 360mm2 chip (APU for next-gen consoles example), they won't be marking up the cost of the chip to sony/ms by $100. The most they add on and sell to Sony/ms is like $30-$40. And that is because they know they stand to be making a profit of around $40 on every console sold for all 100M plus of those consoles sold.

And the same to every in else.

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I just looked up the old cost breakdown for the PS4 and apparently they got the APU for $100, whereas the split hardware MSRP for similar performing PC hardware would have been probably been like $250+. Apparently they can get some pretty sweet deals. Although with the current prices of parts, I'd guess a $500 next-gen console now.

 

[The_hypocrite]

It's hard to astroturf when they're a dedicated site for MS coverage. They aren't really hiding their loyalty. That would be like PlayStation Magazine not wanting PlayStation to be better.

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The mouthpieces in here making echo of something written by a site that you consider has no credibility is the astroturfing. Subtlety is lost on you.

That isn't astroturfing and thinking it is shows you have no idea what astroturfing actually is.

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OK!!

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I just looked up the old cost breakdown for the PS4 and apparently they got the APU for $100, whereas the split hardware MSRP for similar performing PC hardware would have been probably been like $250+. Apparently they can get some pretty sweet deals. Although with the current prices of parts, I'd guess a $500 next-gen console now.

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That tends to happen when you can lock-in long term contracts for dozens of millions of APUs.

 

[GUNDAM STARDUST]

The mouthpieces in here making echo of something written by a site that you consider has no credibility is the astroturfing. Subtlety is lost on you.

OK!!

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In this scenario I confess that the subtlety was/is absolutely lost on me.

 

[eathdemon]

I just looked up the old cost breakdown for the PS4 and apparently they got the APU for $100, whereas the split hardware MSRP for similar performing PC hardware would have been probably been like $250+. Apparently they can get some pretty sweet deals. Although with the current prices of parts, I'd guess a $500 next-gen console now.

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thats b/c they arent buying the apus from amd, they liscance the tech, than pay to have the chips fabed.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

The entire purpose of pointing out that a site has bias is that they are peddling a rumor about 12 cores in Scarlett following news that potentially the other competing platform might be stronger.

Followed by ending said article by a hoping that Scarlett is stronger.

It's fucking fanwank.

 

[Jaypah]

The entire purpose of pointing out that a site has bias is that they are peddling a rumor about 12 cores in Scarlett following news that potentially the other competing platform might be stronger.

Followed by ending said article by a hoping that Scarlett is stronger.

It's fucking fanwank.

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Every iteration of this thread has been half tech discussion, half clinging to hopes and dreams. On both sides. I don't see where this is any different.

 

[VX1]

AMD is on fire:

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Every iteration of this thread has been half tech discussion, half clinging to hopes and dreams. On both sides. I don't see where this is any different.

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true.

Think a 12 core CPU could make sense in Anaconda, considering that it's being made for enthusiasts.

 

[Papacheeks]

Every iteration of this thread has been half tech discussion, half clinging to hopes and dreams. On both sides. I don't see where this is any different.

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Because the spencer interview says otherwise. I mean it's possible, but it would mean that Lockhart which might be out was 8 core and Anaconda was 12 core all along.

I just don't see it being a viable option unless this thing is gong to be $600. WHich would be suicide price wise.

 

[Jaypah]

true.

Think a 12 core CPU could make sense in Anaconda, considering that it's being made for enthusiasts.

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It would be nice for Xbox customers but I think the possibility of it happening is dead zero.

Because the spencer interview says otherwise. I mean it's possible, but it would mean that Lockhart which might be out was 8 core and Anaconda was 12 core all along.

I just don't see it being a viable option unless this thing is gong to be $600. WHich would be suicide price wise.

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Cool, I don't think it's happening either 🤷🏿‍♂️

 

[GhostofWar]

Why does everyone think consoles are this big massive income for AMD?

http://ir.amd.com/news-releases/new...-reports-first-quarter-2019-financial-results

Right down the bottom are the division break downs. The uptick in the divisions performance is from epyc enterprise performance.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

Did you miss all the codenames that came from there and Thurrott.com in the first place and were accurate and true?
You rather believe Resetera "insiders" who make horoscope non statements all the time?

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This.

 

[DukeBlueBall]

It would be nice for Xbox customers but I think the possibility of it happening is dead zero.

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Not true from a technical standpoint, 4 extra cores should only be around 30-40mm2 of extra die space.
I just doubt it because MS would have said 6 times the power if there were 12 cores in the Anaconda.

 

[Luckydog]

Because the spencer interview says otherwise. I mean it's possible, but it would mean that Lockhart which might be out was 8 core and Anaconda was 12 core all along.

I just don't see it being a viable option unless this thing is gong to be $600. WHich would be suicide price wise.

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I think MS has shown this generation that it is capable of making incredibly stupid decisions....at least early on. Heck, I think the possibility of a two console strategy is stupid and unfocused. So I wouldnt rule out the possibility they would overprice their console. I hope they don't but I have not seen anything from them to disuade me from that. Look at the pricing on the XB1 SADE....

 

[Deleted member 4976]

Every iteration of this thread has been half tech discussion, half clinging to hopes and dreams. On both sides. I don't see where this is any different.

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Sure, but along the same lines, pointing out something is biased shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Jaypah]

Not true from a technical standpoint, 4 extra cores should only be around 30-40mm2 of extra die space.
I just doubt it because MS would have said 6 times the power if there were 12 cores in the Anaconda.

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Agreed. Sorry if I made it sound impossible.

 

[modiz]

AMD is on fire:

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so xbox scarlett eats this for breakfast? 128 core confirmed ;p

 

[Jaypah]

Sure, but along the same lines, pointing out something is biased shouldn't be an issue.

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It's not an issue, otherwise this thread would be a graveyard. It's just funny to watch which straw breaks which back.

 

[VX1]

so xbox scarlett eats this for breakfast? 128 core confirmed ;p

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Anyway,great news for next-next-gen :)

anexanhume any idea how big die of this monstrosity is going to be?

 

[thuway]

AMD is on fire:

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I wonder how this will be used for gaming.

 

[dotyoureyes]

LOL did i see mention of the "Secret Sauce"? Why is ti always MS and Xbox that has this secret Sauce shit? Embarrassing, can't believe people are still at that.

 

[VX1]

I wonder how this will be used for gaming.

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I wonder if it can help with RT lol

 

[Jaypah]

LOL did i see mention of the "Secret Sauce"? Why is ti always MS and Xbox that has this secret Sauce shit? Embarrassing, can't believe people are still at that shit.

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There's been plenty of secret sauce for Sony as well, especially after Lisa Su literally said secret sauce on stage in reference to both consoles. You sound wild angry btw

 

[dotyoureyes]

There's been plenty of secret sauce for Sony as well, especially after Lisa Su literally said secret sauce on stage in reference to both consoles. You sound wild angry btw

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Angry? LOL not at all....not sure why you think that.

 

[Liliana]

LOL did i see mention of the "Secret Sauce"? Why is ti always MS and Xbox that has this secret Sauce shit? Embarrassing, can't believe people are still at that shit.

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Jesus Christ that post history on a new account... who's alt are you?

 

[rokkerkory]

Why does everyone think consoles are this big massive income for AMD?

http://ir.amd.com/news-releases/new...-reports-first-quarter-2019-financial-results

Right down the bottom are the division break downs. The uptick in the divisions performance is from epyc enterprise performance.

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well when are they recognizing revenue for the next-gen?

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Why does everyone think consoles are this big massive income for AMD?

http://ir.amd.com/news-releases/new...-reports-first-quarter-2019-financial-results

Right down the bottom are the division break downs. The uptick in the divisions performance is from epyc enterprise performance.

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It's not really a massive income, but it's consistent income for AMD.

This.

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I follow the rule I have with football transfer rumors; follow the journalist, not the site/paper.

BDSams is legit, so I take his rumors seriously.

I dont know how reliable this lad who is pushing the 12 core rumor is though, but we have talked about far more outlandish things in this thread (Vega, HBM) that I dont see a problem.

 

[dotyoureyes]

Jesus Christ that post history on a new account... who's alt are you?

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What is an Alt? Whats wrong with my post history?

 

[Jaypah]

Angry? LOL not at all....not sure why you think that.

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Because you sound angry?

Jesus Christ that post history on a new account... who's alt are you?

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Oh. Oh, wow lol

 

[Fafalada]

In the case of a universal platform emulator, I don't think game licenses can even restrict playback.

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For purely physical media, maybe (although my guess is it's still license agreement dependent and who knows how that has changed since PS3/360 era when post-launch support became common).
That said I don't think you even 'can' offer universal 360 BC without the online component(it'd be pretty broken for a lot of software out there), and that pretty much forces the new licensing onto supported software. Original XB would be easier to avoid that hassle, but given the only thing they gain from universal BC is potential mindshare (and arguably not even that, since visibility of BC titles in XB1 store probably generates more awareness than disc-only ever would), it's doubtful they'd bother either.

 

[dotyoureyes]

Because you sound angry?



Oh. Oh, wow lol

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Was it the LOL or a specific word...not sure how that sounded "Angry" cause I am not, quite the opposite.

 

[Jaypah]

Was it the LOL or a specific word...not sure how that sounded "Angry" cause I am not, quite the opposite.

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The whole thing really. Also I have no way of knowing if you're actually mad but it reads like you are.

 

[Mass Nerder]

It's a damn shame that both consoles had to be combined on this speculation thread.

Damn shame.

 

[anexanhume]

Scarlett is not going to be 12 cores, otherwise they would have claimed 6x speedup, not 4x.

4X makes perfect sense. 1.5x * 1.05x * 1.15x gains over Jaguar. Roughly 2x clock speed and you're at 4x per core. Any SMT gains are gravy.

Doesn't the GPU have features to help reduce CPU overhead for eg draw calls?

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Yes, primitive shaders are confirmed present in Navi.