Great post. I think and hope you're on to something.
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- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Great post. I think and hope you're on to something.
you quoted an xbox fan boy. And he showed an image were their second point say their investors they can provide ps5 exclusives. Because of the big base of ps4 they will have a lot of "early adopter gamer".
I actually believe that Lockhart is the MS server blade for streaming. There is no need to stream at 4K so why push it there?
The only issue with Oberon being a server chip is that it seems far too expensive and hot to be a cost-effective solution for PSNow streaming. If you were going to purpose build a blade for streaming and you weren't limited by existing design (putting mobo in racks) why would you design an APU that runs at those clocks with possible challenging yields?
Wait until there is the first reveal of the ps5.
They will show a big black box with a lot of cooling grids and say " 3 times the gpu power of a ps4 pro if you do the math " (4.2tf x 3 = 12.6tf)
That is when the fun times start.
That's not correct.
The same interpretation of power has to be used for both statements (over 8x XB1, 2x XB1X). You can't say he meant 8 times the (power) TF of the base Xbox One, and twice the "capability" of the 1X. That's cherry picking only the data you want to consider, that's not how statements like this work.
If you interpret the word power to be TF (as I do), then the minimum possible result to satisfy both statements is 12.0TF. This is irrefutable because it's basic math.
If you interpret power to be "capability," then the calculation of GPU capability from current gen's GCN to next gen's Navi to get a final TF for the Series X is not very clear cut. I don't believe this to be the case, but accept if other people interpret it this way. If this is your opinion that's fine, but to make a stronger argument you should contain your reasoning within this interpretation of the word "power" applied across both statemetns
I guess the question becomes, why would Sony make something that can play PS4 games that isn't a PS4, and also isn't a PS5, when PS5 needs to be able to play all PS4 games anyway? It'd make more sense to build out server racks with PS5 APUs because then not only can it play PS4 games, it can play PS5 games as well. I don't think simply hitting 4K native is that big a deal for streaming, since the compression is going to muddy it up anyway. It's important for the video stream to hit 4K to try to preserve the detail, sure, but the source isn't as vital in that case.
Maybe it's more cost effective to them if they can somehow run every past generation of Playstation with one hardware build matching Oberon's profile. That may also explain the 2.0Ghz tests.. may be more feasible in a server rack than in a console box where it's an impossibility.
Beats having Jaguars in there barely running anything but PS4 games.. or PS4 Pro hardware still not able to emulate PS3 games as it's bottlenecked by Jaguar also, for example.
In other words... maybe they deem an expensive solution capable of streaming every past Playstation and PS4 games in Native 4K as worth it.
Again, I don't want to seem crazy by expressing so much concern over 8 or 9x OG Xbox One or Xbox One S, etc
but why would they not just say 12TFs? If they say 2x Xbox One X, that's what it means, right? Then just say it. Not saying a number to me leaves it open to be lower or higher, if they're not 100% sure but have a ballpark of about 1TF
but why would they not just say 12TFs? If they say 2x Xbox One X, that's what it means, right? Then just say it. Not saying a number to me leaves it open to be lower or higher, if they're not 100% sure but have a ballpark of about 1TF
Exactly, there is a ballpark being implied. Because the clocks aren't final. It's going to be close to 12 TF. No need to commit to a hard number.
If Sony is building a new APU just for the cloud, an APU that doesn't resemble anything that developers have ever developed for, it means that each and every PS4 game will have to be ported to that machine. When Sony will launch their "Xcloud", it will be built out of PS5 blades, not a separate APU which developers will have to invest development time for it to run.
Sony already has a 4K PS4 machine, it's called PS4 Pro. If you shrink it to 7nm, it will be a tiny, cheap, low power and very cool APU that requires almost no R&D to make. Building a 9.2TF APU with 500GB/s+ bandwidth that needs to go into BC mode just to be able to run PS4 games as a machine to run PS4 games?
How about using a PS5 in your cloud? It not only plays every PS4 and PS4 Pro game, but it will also play every PS5 game. Doesn't that make just a tiny bit more sense?
I don't think anyone wants to give away hard numbers before the big announcement. If you have an 11TF console, just a 9% change in clocks makes it a 12TF console. I guess that both parties want everything to be final before they announce hard numbers.
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You get too technical you cause PR/mass media problems. You don't talk about numbers at all you get technical voices annoyed and they start to speak for you. It's the early middle ground. It will take time after the launch even before we know exactly what's what.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we get it after the reveals? 6 months before release?
Lucky for you guys I already did the math in a previous OT.
2x GameCube = 1 Wii
2x Wii = 1 Wii U
2x Wii U = 1 PS4
2x PS4 = 1 PS4 Pro
3x PS4 Pro = 1 Series X
1 Series X = 48 GameCubes
It's math.
Throw enough power at something and cut back other things like resolution and framerates enough, and they can probably do raytracing. Stream games while doing that? Again, depends on how strong.
Without lag? Highly dependent on the setup you're working with.
Sony already has their xcloud, that is why i believe the ps5 has a bc mode with the ps3.
Makes sense to remove the ps3 server blades since they will remove the ps4 ones.
I think it's worth noting that typically when companies talk about the power of their devices, if they don't specify a metric they usually mean "all things considered" so I personally don't think they specifically/only mean TF's. If a machine came out with 20TF's GPU and a dual core 1.2ghz CPU it's not going to be able to make anything comparable to what a machine with a 8 core 3.2 ghz CPU + 4TF machine would. You consider the sum of a machine's capability's when giving your audience an idea of what to expect.
I'm just used to ray tracing being a technology on the distant horizon and it's now almost here, and people are talking about PS5 server racks so I just wondered if it was coming there as well. It's amazing how far we have come really.
This math is all wrong. Did not account for efficiencies ;)
Also, google translate does not randomly capitalize words peeps.
👀
Or just emulate the PS3 on PS5, QA the best PS3 games and sell them on PSN. Use a PS5 in PS-Cloud and have it play PS1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 games.
And put everything on the psnow, what a dream.
Lets hope they go for it.
Yes. There are dedicated chips or CPU instructions to do this, it's more or less independent of what is computed on the host system.
What if the tests were throwaway busywork for the intern to learn/keep busy, using old chips to not impede on anything important? That would definitely put a more reasonable timeline around the state of Oberon bieing at its fifth or something revision as we saw a few weeks ago?
It's not uncommon for interns to do basically useless work. I know my internship was pretty much 6 weeks of uselesss waste of time busywork back in the days.
Oberon being for PS now could make sense, but I don't know how likely that is. I still think these were just the 36 activated CUs for some BC tests and it's full form will be 54 cus (3 groups of 20s with 2 deactivated cus each).
It's not uncommon for interns to do basically useless work. I know my internship was pretty much 6 weeks of uselesss waste of time busywork back in the days.
Oberon being for PS now could make sense, but I don't know how likely that is. I still think these were just the 36 activated CUs for some BC tests and it's full form will be 54 cus (3 groups of 20s with 2 deactivated cus each).
Damn it, you're right. I guess it's 48 GameCubes in constant RDNA flops, but something like 192 GameCubes in Dolphin flops... I'll need to do more research!
Well, Spencer said 2 times the gpu power or the xbox one x, so it is only the graphic processing unit.
But that does not really mean a doubling in the tf metric.
Maybe there is also an interview where he says that they want to reach a goal of about 12tf, all really vague sayings, that is how you do it if you don't want to show your cards.
I thought it had become clear, but seen the seen maybe it should be clarified.
Perhaps the best translation would have been ... "It is no hint of anything. Then no one comes to say that I have said "something".
No estoy insinuando nada. Que luego no se diga.
If tomorrow something related to the consoles in the Sony Hall is announced, it will be pure coincidence. I don't want any kind of responsibility in this regard.
PSNow needs to become everything PlayStation. Having it run PS5 games means a whole lot more than running PS3 games. IMO in a few months or years, when Sony wants to make their cloud competitive with Xcloud, they will have to upgrade PSNow or rebrand it with a new name to PS5 based server blades. It will run every PS5 game and every PS4 / Pro game without developers having to write a single line of code. If Sony wants PS1-3 on there too, they need to emulate all three on PS5 so it will be available to both cloud and PS5 users. I doubt Sony is going to maintain PS3 farms all over the world in 2026.
Yah i agree with you, lets hope it doenst take them that long to change.
Interpreting a bit from what I recall of Spanish. "I am insinuating nothing. It should not be said so later."
Honestly, I think the notion of it being "almost here" is over selling it. Ray tracing will be used in some titles and will certainly grow in effectiveness and efficiency, but even looking at the best video cards on the market, it's still a very large performance ask. I can imagine things like ray tracing being early on the chopping block if something like a scaled back version of a game was being looked at for streaming. Exactly what games will look like for future streaming is very unclear.
imagine how it will be when we get some actual solid info. sheesh.
Real question, is it a hard ask because RT is tacked on top of games designed to work without it (for compatibility with most PCs) or is it always going to be a hard ask. Would something designed from the ground up to depend on RT work more efficiently?
With great power comes great responsibility.
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Spider Man 2 PS5 reveal tomorrow confirmed?
So how will it be some time after these consoles launch? Because that's when we're getting real hardware numbers.
what he really means is that "after not tell him that he said it", basically what he explained on the other site is that he is speculating and that by working in the industry doesn't mean that every thing he says has to be for announce something
It's both. Early implementations of RT are no doubt inefficient. But that sort of compatibly isn't going to go away, not for many years. And even when those are less of an issue, it's a performance intensive feature.
Developers will get better and better and using it, and they'll find shortcuts that look almost as good as a full implementation but have half the impact in performance, but it's still going to be a bigger drain than most lighting solutions. And it won't be the only feature vying for power.
It's only dizzying because we keep going through the same talking points over and over again. Remedy, GitHub, RDNA/GCN. and so on. GitHub is actual numbers and the discussion makes sense but there is no evidence of remedy getting acquired by anyone, a TF is a TF. I have no problem with bringing these things up but people need to at least argue in good faith not saying "faster" or "performance" when discussing a quote that could easily be checked.
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