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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation |OT10| - We aim to transition those from OT9 at a pace never seen before. [SEE THREADMARKS FOR CHANCE AT GLORY]
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Looking at Sony's first party software pipeline, I doubt the decision to move PS5's release to 2020 was done in 2018. Also after the One X release, I doubt that Sony ever considered that Scarlett could be weak. I'm confident that any potential changes Sony made have little to do with what MS is doing.
But imagine if Oberon is PS Now server related to run PS4 games at Native 4K (hence the clock speeds) and is not PS5 related at all. Would give us Native 4K PS4 games, as Cerny pointed out.
That tweet is laughable. "
Like do they not understand the cost for publishers? ANd understand the cringe that has been E3 the past couple years? There's a reason Nintendo got out, and there's a reason Microsoft uses their own theater. Same with what Sony use to do. Rarely past couple years they have suits from EA or NBA/FIFA celebs on stage.
I think Microsoft's last year they did this was 2 years ago. They even saw how dumb it was.
You expect PS5 to be 8TF?.....So Sony is giving Microsoft a 4TF advantage? This is the type of thinking that puzzles me about the Github leak and the people who stand by it, if you believe the leak then it'll be clocked at 2ghz and will be a 9.2TF machine but you guys go a step further by making up your own numbers to make the console even weaker. If you believe the leak then stand by it fully don't cherry pick to fit your narrative.
I don't understand number 1. For certain the chip being tested was larger than 36 CU, most likely 40 with 2 WGP disabled to match PS4 Pro CU.
I believe it was discovered a week or 2 before launch, yes.
Wonder what? What could have been or something else?
Earn back your trust is a reference to the fact that attendees and devs and Others private information was embarrassingly made public accidentally outing many peoples private information.
I am not knowledgeable about these things, just drawing upon what more knowledgeable people than me are saying and contextualizing with my own logical deductions.
I don't know if you HAVE to fit Oberon into some story about the PS5. There is a possibility that the PS5 is revealed and what is ends up being has no basis in the Oberon leaks.
If it HAD to guess and include the Oberon leaks, just because 36CUs @ 2Ghz doesn't make sense from a design perspective, is that the PS5 is likely in the 50CU range, same as the Xbox and runs around 1.7Ghz, same as the Xbox. The 36CU leak could be a PS4pro boost mode test, where they use the 36CUs to emulate PS4pro and run them at higher clocks to push performance because the PSU has the capacity and the cooling solution can cool it. It was an idea they had in the summer and they had AMD test it.
Yeah maybe but it's not impossible to think that both companies roughly know / knew for quite a while what specs each other would use mostly and especially having both Amd producing chips for each of them.. It would make sense that both consoles would end up being similar in power/performance aside the ssd solution they would use personally as they are not produced by the same manufacturer.. Ram would be roughly the same.. So if cpu and gpu are almost mirrored with minor differences to each company it would be safe to say that there's no way a difference of 3 tf would be justified by the ssd and ram since apparently both are performing the same?
I don't know more than anyone here but whatever specs or technical data they officially both end up with.. Both will offer a similar experience technically wise.. The difference will as usual be the games and 1st parties where both will shine on their own.. That's all I wish for.. Oh! And more PS ports to PC 😁
*im pretty sure they do know each others general specs I mean come on! If you work at McDonald's and 2 colleagues prepare a special secret hamburger for 1 client each.. Don't you think both would know each others recipes at one point in time?
It's human nature to dare the unthinkable and go after each other.. Look how the world is being run loll! Crazy shit happens all the time everyday! 😊
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It's not a question of "hidden", just having an open mind. To rule it out in absolute terms you will need to have a solid proof that every single unannounced chip AMD is and has been working on recently has already leaked to public domain, and to be honest only AMD can tell you that (if they even care to track the leaks tbh).
I'm not disputing that the data in GitHub is real, but to draw any definitive conclusion from it is foolish.
Well, you can say that AMD definitely has worked a chip codenamed Oberon and it had frequencies matching PS4 and PS4Pro, that is it.
Just one question about disabling CUs for BC: what about power/heat for those disabled CUs? Do they still draw power and heat up, if so, considerably less or are they "active" but idling and using bascially the same amount of Watts?
If they don't heat up as much a cooling solution capable of cooling a die with lots of CUs running at lesser frequencies could spend it's cooling "budget" on cooling a smaller part of the GPU running faster and hotter than normally, depending on the configuration of the CUs and the cooling system, yes? You'd still need a chip capable of running at higher frequencies on most CUs, but IF the test for 36 CUs at 2 GHz is for some souped up BC using only a part of the GPU, maybe they can bin most chips of PS5 capabilities with 2 GHz on just a part of it, so they figured "why the hell not"?
I still think this 36 CUs @2 is pretty weird, but that's more fun to ask about than more infighting. The Server theory might make a lot more sense.
If they don't heat up as much a cooling solution capable of cooling a die with lots of CUs running at lesser frequencies could spend it's cooling "budget" on cooling a smaller part of the GPU running faster and hotter than normally, depending on the configuration of the CUs and the cooling system, yes? You'd still need a chip capable of running at higher frequencies on most CUs, but IF the test for 36 CUs at 2 GHz is for some souped up BC using only a part of the GPU, maybe they can bin most chips of PS5 capabilities with 2 GHz on just a part of it, so they figured "why the hell not"?
I still think this 36 CUs @2 is pretty weird, but that's more fun to ask about than more infighting. The Server theory might make a lot more sense.
2GHz may have been a stress test for eg boost mode? or to exaggerate timing issues but reality will run slower? No idea - the actual speed being in a consumer box seems crazy unless they're going with N7P / N7+ which doesn't seem likely
I know, and it wasn't the first time it has happened though. A lot of people have had issues at E3, like code getting stolen.
I believe Albert already answered the first part and said it didn't make sense. If there are two distinct APUs, it would be a replan, or a frankenAPU and the actual custom APU. I don't see the point of developing two unless you plan on two (such as Series X and S).
I definitely remember Rich saying that and the only thing I was wondering was where did he hear that rumor...
No problem, i also don't really understand most of the things here ;-)
I'm just wondering why ps5 has to have less CU then xbox series x, i mean if they tested the chip in PS4 Pro "mode", disabled/not tested hardware RT, isn't it also possible to disable more then 4 CU.
Well, i'm not a pro on this field, i just like to play some nice looking games with as good as possible performance on my toy boxes.
Wouldn't that lead you to believe that AMD CAN keep Semi-Custom product details secret up until 2 weeks before a product lunch?
Yep, it makes you wonder which one of his sources thought it was using Jaguar when it was using Zen2+Navi, and how credible they are.
For me it is something that perspectivises the idea that a console at some time was replanned from an earlier release date.
<_<
DrKeo Thank you kindly for the response.
So, if I am understanding this correctly, under your speculation, the capability of RT HW will be directly tied to the no. of CUs within the GPU. Consequently, by the sheer virtue of having more more active CUs, XsX's RT capability will be comparatively better that PS5's (unless, in the hypothetical event where PS5's GPU is clocked to a frequency which results in it being as performant as XsX's GPU, despite having a lower active CU count).
So, if I am understanding this correctly, under your speculation, the capability of RT HW will be directly tied to the no. of CUs within the GPU. Consequently, by the sheer virtue of having more more active CUs, XsX's RT capability will be comparatively better that PS5's (unless, in the hypothetical event where PS5's GPU is clocked to a frequency which results in it being as performant as XsX's GPU, despite having a lower active CU count).
Are you suggesting that a next gen console would have a last gen processor onboard to aid in BC?
I remember when the PS3 launched with the Emotion Engine onboard for PS2 BC.
That is my take also on the leaks.
It does not make any sense to go for such a small amount of CUs unless they wanted to match perfectly the PS4 Pro.
I don't know what you expect when you give us partial information. We don't know the source, or the details of what they said. You are basically having a conversation with yourself and hinting at implications for others.
Just come out and say that you think.
Do you think the PS5 was delayed? When do you think that delay happened? How does your source's information fit into things?
No, its pretty clear he is suggesting that this rumored revision of the PS5 seems to coincide with previous rumors that a system was going to be using Jaguar cores again.
PS4 Pro 2 ;) maybe one design when they were thinking the gen will continue much longer. Maybe Sony explore multiple venues and choose one at he end.
Can someone explain to me how cu counts work and why would you need to deactivate that many to emulate ps4? Can't you just use all of them actively to run the ps4 games and that's it? How does it work? Would that make the ps4 games run too fast or render the emulation unstable?
Can't they just program limits to the emulation with specific settings without having to disable cu's?
I honestly don't know how the tech works but I'm a good learner.. Would someone please care to do a quick explanation?
Thnx
Can't they just program limits to the emulation with specific settings without having to disable cu's?
I honestly don't know how the tech works but I'm a good learner.. Would someone please care to do a quick explanation?
Thnx
Jaguar cores are probably <20mm^2 on 7nm. Just include them on the APU for BC.
(no, I am not serious)
IMO, whatever Sony and MS put in the cloud will be a modified home consumer console fitted to a server blade. I don't think Sony or MS want another SKU on their hands. There isn't any reason to build a custom APU just for the cloud unless you want it to have some other cloud-based purpose other than gaming. Home console design is already built to run cool in a tiny box, it will perform wonderfully on a server blade. IMO PS cloud will just have loads of PS5 blades and Xcloud will just have loads of XSS (for 4K streaming) and XSX blades (for 1080p streaming).
Yup, building an APU "just in case" doesn't make much sense.
If both platform holders are just using AMD's RT solution, IMO, according to their RT patent, the difference in performance will be based on clock speed and CU count. But there can be special customizations, like a data structure building silicon (like the powerVR patent) or adding more L0 cache (which is again, inside the CU and will scale with them). But if I had to guess, it will probably scale 1:1 with the TF count and clock speed based.
We need a identifier you can click on for posts that are meant serious or not!
I guess what I should've asked is, why 12? Why wouldn't they just put 16GB of GDDR6 on the devkits, and if it's a bus width issue, why not 24? And it's too much DDR4 for the amount of GDDR6, unless they're going for a PC-style split RAM design, which seems unlikely.
The DDR on the PS4 systems is really for background garbage, the entirety of games and virtually all of the OS still sits in the GDDR5. From what I understand, the DDR is used more like a high-speed storage than something to execute code from, and the presence of a good SSD should reduce the need for it. If they're going by the same setup, the regular system RAM would be 12 GB according to that tweet.
Do we think they're going for another RAM doubling surprise at the last minute? I doubt anyone, especially MS, would fall for it (or even care, really). All it would do is annoy developers at this point.
Absolutely no pro here, but maybe take it as a first response.
History kinda shows sony likes to take hardware to get backward compatibility. It may not give much more modern options for older games like emulation, but i think it is the easiest and also safest way.
Agreed.
Backwards Compatibility testing, or PS Now server related. But highly doubt it's indicative of final spec PS5.
If it comes at a competitive price for me it will be the perfect all-in-one.
Well, Sony already confirmed it will be Zen2 no? But it doesn't hurt to play with the idea that Sony may have had plans for a souped-up Jaguar version for a PS5 releasing earlier. Wasn't the Wii working on that model : just taking the GC architecture and boosting it up, allowing backward compatibility easily?
What I got from Albert Penello's yesterday explanation was that both Microsoft and Sony probably had the same available products from ATI to choose and tweak from. Bearing that in mind, it is not about downplaying the GitHub leak but trying to find a logic behind it.
Surely nobody would think that Microsoft would launch a modest system in terms of CUs, and I daresay that Sony did not think that way either. Consequently, why would they be testing a 36/40 system? The most logical answer that comes to mind is to match the PS4 Pro and test the BC.
Unless you would think they went all along thinking that Microsoft would go for a 36 or less system and got surprised out of the bush... Could be an idea. But not the one that comes first to my mind, knowing Microsoft's focus on having the most powerful system.
me: oh a notification from the playstation account, probably something boring
me: oh shit its happening.
then keeps on reading
Why does it say clear your calendar for March 21 and the game is not March 21 ?
Perhaps they're confident that they don't need more RAM because of the speed of their SSD.
We had confirmation in the first Wired article that it's Zen 2 based. Let go of any distractions that claim otherwise.
It makes zero sense though. Jaguar was considered weak when this gem of consoles released and including one even as provisional wouldn't even make sense for a 2019 release
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